WrestleMania 21 Thread

Pure Apathy

Pure Apathy

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*edit*
Here are the review links.

IGN - 6.0
http://xbox.ign.com/articles/606/606033p1.html

Team Xbox - 6.8
http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/934/WWE-WrestleMania-21/p1/

GameSpy - 2/5
http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/wrestlemania-xxi/606295p1.html

Gamespot - 4.5
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/wwewrestlemania21/index.html?q=wwe

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http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/0...ws_6122657.html

For wrestling fans, there's nothing like pile-driving an opponent into submission--especially when they're halfway across the country. THQ's WrestleMania XXI, released today, was billed to allow gamers to do just that through the game's Xbox Live support.


Unfortunately, consumers who unwrapped the Xbox game and tried to use its online features have been slammed into an unwanted reality--currently, WrestleMania XXI's online features won't even step into the ring.

News of the possible glitch began to spring up on forums around the Web, as disgruntled gamers explained their situations. Said one forum poster, "Anyone else who has the game having this problem [connecting to Xbox Live]? Any other game I can connect with, but this game doesn't even TRY to connect. It just says, 'Your Xbox console cannot connect to Xbox Live. Do you want to start the troubleshooter?'"

Attempts to wrestle online in the GameSpot offices met the same fate. Pre-release versions worked online, albeit with some lag issues.

When trying to play the Xbox Live portion of the game, players are receiving the "Could not connect to Xbox Live" error message. Attempting to sign in to users' Xbox Live accounts causes the game to immediately display the error message, indicating that WMXXI isn't even going through the standard procedures to connect online. However, when attempting to connect through the Xbox dashboard or another Xbox Live-enabled title, Microsoft's online service works just fine.

THQ is currently working with Microsoft to remedy the issue. GameSpot will have more on this story as it develops

I'm not suprised at all, DoR 2 needs to hurry up and come out.
 
Yeah look what they gave raw\raw 2. IGN has shown MANY times their reviews are way off.

edit : Gamestats.com gave it a 99.5\100.
 
7.5 Presentation
The intros and special moves are spot-on. The menu system is difficult to navigate and the game chugs during transitions.

8.5 Graphics
The player models are exceptional and animations are very realistic. This is one good-looking game.

6.0 Sound
Official wrestler themes and custom soundtracks counteract the outdated licensed music and poor voice-over work.

5.0 Gameplay
The grappling system feels frustrating even with the addition of counters. This is due to the numerous issues concerning poor A.I. and collision detection.

6.5 Lasting Appeal
There are a good number of gameplay modes and there is also online play, but these are both negated by the disturbing gameplay issues.

6.0 OVERALL
(out of 10 / not an average)
 
[quote name='RawisJericho']I still think this game is going to suck. I will pass on it for now until more people get a chance to play it. I haven't bought a wrestling game since WMXIX and I am still happy with it.[/QUOTE]

I'll beable to tell you my opinion on it soon, if you care to hear. I am also curious what other sites think, but I don't let reviews decide for me.
 
[quote name='Superstar']I'll beable to tell you my opinion on it soon, if you care to hear. I am also curious what other sites think, but I don't let reviews decide for me.[/QUOTE]

Sure, I'd love to hear it. The only review site I really keep track of is gamespot. IGN's reviews have been way off here lately.
 
I'm on the fence with this game and wouldn't mind other cag opinions. I'm hoping it's good but assuming it will be trash.
 
[quote name='RawisJericho']Sure, I'd love to hear it. The only review site I really keep track of is gamespot. IGN's reviews have been way off here lately.[/QUOTE]

Gamespot is pretty high on my list right now, to hear from about the game. I've been refreshing the main page for awhile now hah. I am glad to hear xbox live matches run smoothly, well atleast according to ign they do.
 
[quote name='TheUnsane1']I'm on the fence with this game and wouldn't mind other cag opinions. I'm hoping it's good but assuming it will be trash.[/QUOTE]

i too am on the fence, and with that review im not gonna get it day 1, ill at least wait a week or two to see what other people think
 
I am diggin' your sig image RawisJericho!

To stay on topic...it will take a AKI-style engine before I buy another wrestling game.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']I am diggin' your sig image RawisJericho!

To stay on topic...it will take a AKI-style engine before I buy another wrestling game.[/QUOTE]

Thanks! onetrackmind hooked me up with it, he did a really good job with it too.

I would kill right now if EA bought the rights to make WWE games and used the old AKI engine. This is the only move I'd like to see EA make. The quality of wrestling games has been on the decline from THQ.
 
[quote name='RawisJericho']Thanks! onetrackmind hooked me up with it, he did a really good job with it too.

I would kill right now if EA bought the rights to make WWE games and used the old AKI engine. This is the only move I'd like to see EA make. The quality of wrestling games has been on the decline from THQ.[/QUOTE]

hasnt the WWE been trying to get out of their contract with THQ or something like that???
 
[quote name='cthcky33']hasnt the WWE been trying to get out of their contract with THQ or something like that???[/QUOTE]

Yeah something like that, WWE sued THQ/JAKKS over something. I don't really remember what it was over, and I could be wrong with THQ being in the lawsuit.
 
[quote name='RawisJericho']Thanks! onetrackmind hooked me up with it, he did a really good job with it too.

I would kill right now if EA bought the rights to make WWE games and used the old AKI engine. This is the only move I'd like to see EA make. The quality of wrestling games has been on the decline from THQ.[/QUOTE]

pretty sure that they had the rights to TNA and they never used them to make a game.

Personally I prefer the Yuke's engine, and love the fast pace and quick combo's that it allows. It may not mimmick real wrestling, but it does things better than anything else I have played. the only thing that comes close to touching the Smackdown series this generation is WM XIX, as everything else has been pretty much garbage (though XVIII still has the ultimate roster as far as this generation is concerned)
 
Sigh. And there you have it. Not that I'm surprised.

It rarely fails - a review embargo that keeps reviews off sites until relase day (or after) almost always means crappy, overhyped game.

It's unfortunate that the only two engines that have done it right in the last 10 years (FirePro and the AKI games) are abandoned now. The FirePro one not being used I can understand - although I'd still love to see it - since it looks "old." But it makes no sense for someone to not use the AKI engine or at least something extremely similar.

Pretty sad state of affairs when the best wrestling series available are the mediocre-at-best Smackdown games.
 
Sigh. And there you have it. Not that I'm surprised. Yes, it's true that it's only one review and it could be that all the other sites put it up around the 8 range or whatever...but come on - we know that's probably not going to happen.

It would not surprise me to see Gamespot actually rank it slightly higher. IGN may have overcorrected here after still feeling dumb about giving Raw and Raw 2 such ridiculously high scores.

Regardless, it rarely fails - a review embargo that keeps reviews off sites until relase day (or after) often means crappy, overhyped game.

It's unfortunate that the only two engines that have done it right in the last 10 years (FirePro and the AKI games) are abandoned now. The FirePro one not being used I can understand - although I'd still love to see it - since it looks "old." But it makes no sense for someone to not use the AKI engine or at least something extremely similar.

Pretty sad state of affairs when the best wrestling series available are the mediocre-at-best Smackdown games.
 
Sigh. And there you have it. Not that I'm surprised. Yes, it's true that it's only one review and it could be that all the other sites put it up around the 8 range or whatever...but come on - we know that's probably not going to happen. And if it does I'll gladly come back here and say I was wrong.

It would not surprise me to see Gamespot actually rank it slightly higher. IGN may have overcorrected here after still feeling dumb about giving Raw and Raw 2 such ridiculously high scores.

Regardless, it rarely fails - a review embargo that keeps reviews off sites until relase day (or after) often means crappy, overhyped game.

It's unfortunate that the only two engines that have done it right in the last 10 years (FirePro and the AKI games) are abandoned now. The FirePro one not being used I can understand - although I'd still love to see it - since it looks "old." But it makes no sense for someone to not use the AKI engine or at least something extremely similar.

Pretty sad state of affairs when the best wrestling series available are the mediocre-at-best Smackdown games.
 
The thing is, IGN usually OVERRATES their games, not the otherway around. A 6 from them is a bad, bad sign.

Or perhaps they're being a little too critical after the Raw debacle? Either way, it won't be a smash, so I wouldn't waste the time.
 
o..mg.

If IGN gave it a 6.0, I'm going to definately rent. Holy shit, this is awful. I mean, look at Raw 2. Raw 2 was awful and it got a 9. If this thing got a 6.. my god, this thing must be a tanker.

Well, now I don't have to worry about spending $ to pick it up.. wow. I'm going to go read this review, and read the bitching over at the GameFAQs message board, which i'm sure is there.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']Sigh. And there you have it. Not that I'm surprised. Yes, it's true that it's only one review and it could be that all the other sites put it up around the 8 range or whatever...but come on - we know that's probably not going to happen. And if it does I'll gladly come back here and say I was wrong.

It would not surprise me to see Gamespot actually rank it slightly higher. IGN may have overcorrected here after still feeling dumb about giving Raw and Raw 2 such ridiculously high scores.

Regardless, it rarely fails - a review embargo that keeps reviews off sites until relase day (or after) often means crappy, overhyped game.

It's unfortunate that the only two engines that have done it right in the last 10 years (FirePro and the AKI games) are abandoned now. The FirePro one not being used I can understand - although I'd still love to see it - since it looks "old." But it makes no sense for someone to not use the AKI engine or at least something extremely similar.

Pretty sad state of affairs when the best wrestling series available are the mediocre-at-best Smackdown games.[/QUOTE]

IMO the Def Jam series is way better even though it only uses some wrestling elements and blends it into a brawler.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']IMO the Def Jam series is way better even though it only uses some wrestling elements and blends it into a brawler.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. This guy I was talking with at EB was waiting for Wrestlemania and this was in September or October. I mentioned how there was absolutely no media from it and to expect the worse, that Def Jam: FFNY was probably going to still be the top "wrestling" game on the XBox.

I don't understand why they chose SG to do this game. They had no experience in the field. From what they've done, I think they did a pretty amazing job with the graphics and whatnot, but with gameplay, they've fallen flat on their face. I don't think IGN was overcorrecting for the mistakes they made with Raw 2. Don't get me wrong, I'll pick this up.. just not at launch. Let's look at some of the flaws that IGN says WMXXI has.

The grappling would be too simplistic if not for the countering system. There are two types of counters, one for grapple moves, and one for strikes and they are assigned to the left and right triggers respectively.
Click to expand...

One reversal move for two types of attacks. That's painful.

The game decides that characters are "up" almost as soon as they begin to rise from the mat.
Click to expand...

Speaking of mat strikes, many of them can be endlessly linked to quickly drain a wrestler's stamina. On the easier difficulty levels this works in favor of the player. It is possible to land successive elbow drops on an opponent that doesn't have time to get up or roll out of the way. On harder difficulty settings, the problem works against players, especially when taking on a submission artist. It takes so long to rise from the mat, that by the time your wrestler begins to shake off a hit, he's already been placed in another hold. This type of game-breaker used to occur all the time in older wrestling games, but is inexcusable in modern releases
Click to expand...

Didn't DOR address this issue? Didn't Wrestlemania XIX address this issue? Hell, didn't Wrestlemania X8 address this issue? They made it to where the more you stomp on an opponent, the more the momentum shifts to the CPU. I can't wait to see the matches on XBox Live.

*run*
*clothesline*
*stompstompstompstompstompstompstompstompstompstompstompstomp*
*pin.. 1, 2, 3*

In a simple face-off, the computer acts normally, with an assortment of grapples, strikes, and special moves. However, as soon as another variable is added to the equation, strange things start to happen. This first became apparent in career mode when a third wrestler entered the arena and teamed up with my opponent. While one character continued to fight, the extra wrestler circled the ring aimlessly until the match ended.
Click to expand...

AI has always been a problem for XBox wrestling games, though.

Another example of poor A.I. can be found in the tag-team TLC matches. Computer controlled team members not only hit each other with objects, they routinely topple the ladder just as their teammate is going for the win.
Click to expand...

Nice. Raw 2 had something like that.

When smashing an opponent through a table, the player doesn't break through the object, instead it simply lowers into the matt and disappears.
Click to expand...

..wtf?

Another complaint likely to come from WWE fans concerning this game is the outdated roster. There are 45 wrestlers in total, including five legends and six divas. But it's disappointing that they include someone like Val Venus while Billy Kidman and La Resistance are nowhere in sight. There are two wrestlers who are no longer with the WWE on the list, but most of the title matches from the real WrestleMania 21 can be re-created within the game.
Click to expand...

This makes me think that the guy partly does not watch or follow wrestling. There's way more than two wrestlers who are no longer with WWE on the list.

Instead of previewing each item as it is selected, players have to choose the item and view it separately.
Click to expand...

That is a HUGE pet peeve of mine, and might even be more annoying than Raw 2 where you have to exit to the main menu if you want to select another wrestler in the "Create A Superstar" mode.

The career mode for create-a-wrestler entails a single storyline that remains the same each time you play through.
Click to expand...

I thought they said multiple branching storylines! WTF?

Instead, after each match there is a short cut scene that moves the story along and if players lose a match, there is simply the option to retry or quit.
Click to expand...

Retry or quit? WTF? So you can't lose a match and progress in the story? That's fucking retarded.

The career mode has all of the double crosses, back stabbings, and backstage beat downs that one would expect from the plot lines of the WWE, but after one play through it doesn't offer any surprises.
Click to expand...

Sad.

Without revealing any spoilers, the story line gets a lot more interesting as it progresses through the 52 matches that make up a year of kicking ass in the WWE.
Click to expand...

At least the story mode isn't short.. too bad about the Goldberg 52-0 of it all.

I'm depressed now.. I guess that I'll give this a rental on Friday.
 
Guys, don't overreact. Just as IGN's reviews can't be trusted when they're unusually high, they also cannot be trusted when they are this low. Also, as I have said many times, a review is only a guideline. Many games have gotten bad reviews and people ended up enjoying them.

I'll admit, this is unsettling, but my old buddy Mike Regan and the rest of the Gaming Ring staff said it's worth buying, and I trust them more than IGN. I'll freely admit that the game could still suck a fat one, but at least wait til you can play it before losing all hope.

I'll be getting the game Friday (unless GameRush was wrong, which I hope) so once I get my copy, I'll let you know if I should eat my words or if IGN has proven to be retarded once again.

I'm eagerly anticipating the first CAG to post thoughts on the game. It's almost 9:00 over on the East Coast, time for stores to begin opening.
 
Guys, don't overreact.
Click to expand...

Oh, sorry, I thought we were supposed to claim when a game has shitty AI that features such highlights as ring-around-the-ring and attacking your own teammate, a linear story, and a game that can be beaten simply by hitting the attack button over and over again.

I'll admit, this is unsettling, but my old buddy Mike Regan and the rest of the Gaming Ring staff said it's worth buying, and I trust them more than IGN.
Click to expand...

THQ provided them with beta builds, of course they'll say it's worth buying. They also gave Showdown: Legends of Wrestling a 9.0.

I'm eagerly anticipating the first CAG to post thoughts on the game. It's almost 9:00 over on the East Coast, time for stores to begin opening.
Click to expand...

Uhh.. it SHIPS today, in stores tomorrow.. unless some retailers decided to same-day it, which I doubt they did.
 
As I said, those were the opinions of one reviewer. Gaming Ring and UK XBM both gave good scores. All I suggest is that you guys give the game a chance. The reviewer at IGN may be right, but he could just as well be wrong.

As for the ship date/release date, who knows? I've heard several different dates, and a lot of people say it shipped yesterday and will arrive in stores today. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I'm not looking to launch into some huge argument right now, although a civilized debate will certainly be welcome once people have the game.

Maybe I'm just too optimistic... But hey, if it turns out to be a really horrible game when judged by the wrestling fans of the world, I can always switch up my preorder for something else.
 
As I said, those were the opinions of one reviewer. Gaming Ring and UK XBM both gave good scores. All I suggest is that you guys give the game a chance. The reviewer at IGN may be right, but he could just as well be wrong.
Click to expand...

And i'm telling you that GamingRing gave it good scores because they are scratching THQ's back for continuously giving them information and betas. Why didn't you pick up on that? Am I the only one that think's it's NOT a coincidence that a wrestling site and a platform specific magazine gave a hyped game a high score and the first multiplatform review gave it a low score?

As for the ship date/release date, who knows? I've heard several different dates, and a lot of people say it shipped yesterday and will arrive in stores today. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

..I do, and the fact that THQ says it ships on the 20th. Who are you going to believe, random people on GameFAQs?

I'm not looking to launch into some huge argument right now, although a civilized debate will certainly be welcome once people have the game.
Click to expand...

Why not a civilized debate now? It's fun to disagree.

Maybe I'm just too optimistic... But hey, if it turns out to be a really horrible game when judged by the wrestling fans of the world, I can always switch up my preorder for something else.
Click to expand...

Optimistic isn't the word I'd use, "hopeful" and "in denial" would fit better, though.. like I said, I'll give it a rent Friday. We can settle it in the ring.
 
A civilized debate now is fine, but we're only debating the reviewer's impressions and rumors. I just didn't want things to turn into an actual argument rather than a debate.

You have a valid point about GR, but they didn't give it astronomical scores. The average was a 7/10. Those guys are big time wrestling gamers who play and own a lot of wrestling games. I've known Mike online since our days at WrestlingGames.com starting back in 2000, so I trust his opinion more than IGN's. Still, it's just another man's opinion and I'll have to form my own.

I'm not in denial. I just don't put any faith in a damn thing IGN says. If the game sucks, I'll admit it. You're right, though, I am very hopeful that it will not be as bad as some predict.
 
You have a valid point about GR, but they didn't give it astronomical scores. The average was a 7/10. Those guys are big time wrestling gamers who play and own a lot of wrestling games. I've known Mike online since our days at WrestlingGames.com starting back in 2000, so I trust his opinion more than IGN's. Still, it's just another man's opinion and I'll have to form my own.
Click to expand...

Since you know the guy personally, that's a different situation.. but I still don't trust GR after a 9.0 for Showdown: LoW.

If I rent WM21 and it sucks hardcore, I'm going to keep my Gamecube and re-buy WWE DoR. It may have sucked in story mode and whatnot (I actually never made it out of training because I can NOT reverse move!), but it was a blast to play.
 
I would never have given Showdown a 9.0. It has quite a few annoying gameplay flaws and some horrible, atrocious glicthing. However, I don't feel it was nearly as bad as many thought. It was fun to have old school dream matches.

I really need to get DoR myself. It's only $30 now. Maybe I'll get that instead of WM if WM turns out to be horrible.

It's too bad we can't play WrestleMania XIX and DoR online. Those games are great in multiplayer.
 
Well this sucks, everyone and their mom was looking forward to WM21 because It featured online play that would topple Smackdown versus Raw.

I can stand crappy AI, I can stand CAW that takes awhile to get use to and create, I can stand shitty music and voice overs, and I can stand a shitty storyline. Why? Because It's all about the multiplayer in a wrestling game for me, that's why Ihad this pre-ordered with free Overnight shipping, I couldn't wait to get my hands on it.

But I find it pretty sad you can beat people with the *kick kick kick kick kick WHAM STUNNER!* type of gameplay, that's garbage. I'm just hoping your able to reverse on the mat for people who abuse it.

What was the most annoying part in DOR was it took FOREVER to get up from moves, outside of DOR I think It's the best current generation wrestling game out there, better then Def Jam Fight For NY. The only problem is obvious: The Cube has no online play.

Well I might keep my copy sealed (that is if i get it tonight via overnight shipping) for another day till Gamespots review is up. If GS gives it a 8.0 or better thats good enough for me to open, IGN *could* be the only one shitting on WM, and the reason for that could be their past bad Raw ratings, or maybe they aren't getting paid for a high review, who knows, it could be anything.

One thing is for sure, this game will most likely be better then RAW, but for Smackdown to be better then this, that would be a dissapointment. I just put Smackdown versus RAW on eBay because I found HCTP to be a better game overall.
 
Bad reviews, one review at that should NOT be used to unjustify a purchase. Suikoden 1 or 2 anyone? Bad reviews pretty much everywhere, yet the greatest RPG of all time for me, and a very good RPG for everyone else who put more then an hour into it. Also everyone seems to say Obscure is a good game, yet every other review website has been trashing it.
 
Even though the game will suck shit, there's a lot of CAG'ers getting it, and I just got a call stating it'd be in after 4pm.. I dunno if I can hold out..
 
[quote name='Scorch']Even though the game will suck shit, there's a lot of CAG'ers getting it, and I just got a call stating it'd be in after 4pm.. I dunno if I can hold out..[/QUOTE]

Just resist the temptation. If I could hold off on buying a WWE game since WMXIX, you can too! Just think of how sweet DoR 2 will be once it comes out. With Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior already confirmed, I will be happy with just them. Since Jake Roberts was on TV here recently, you would have to think that there is a good chance that he might be in as well.

If anything, you should rent it and see how bad it is first and get it out of your system. :)
 
[quote name='RawisJericho']Just resist the temptation. If I could hold off on buying a WWE game since WMXIX, you can too! Just think of how sweet DoR 2 will be once it comes out. With Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior already confirmed, I will be happy with just them. Since Jake Roberts was on TV here recently, you would have to think that there is a good chance that he might be in as well.

If anything, you should rent it and see how bad it is first and get it out of your system. :)[/QUOTE]

I won't have a Gamecube by then. I'm actually probably trading it off today. My bro has one, though. DOR2 looks awesome.
 
Here is another reason for you to get the game Scorch... I bet gamespot gives it a 3-6 score.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/04/20/news_6122657.html

For wrestling fans, there's nothing like pile-driving an opponent into submission--especially when they're halfway across the country. THQ's WrestleMania XXI, released today, was billed to allow gamers to do just that through the game's Xbox Live support.


Unfortunately, consumers who unwrapped the Xbox game and tried to use its online features have been slammed into an unwanted reality--currently, WrestleMania XXI's online features won't even step into the ring.

News of the possible glitch began to spring up on forums around the Web, as disgruntled gamers explained their situations. Said one forum poster, "Anyone else who has the game having this problem [connecting to Xbox Live]? Any other game I can connect with, but this game doesn't even TRY to connect. It just says, 'Your Xbox console cannot connect to Xbox Live. Do you want to start the troubleshooter?'"

Attempts to wrestle online in the GameSpot offices met the same fate. Pre-release versions worked online, albeit with some lag issues.

When trying to play the Xbox Live portion of the game, players are receiving the "Could not connect to Xbox Live" error message. Attempting to sign in to users' Xbox Live accounts causes the game to immediately display the error message, indicating that WMXXI isn't even going through the standard procedures to connect online. However, when attempting to connect through the Xbox dashboard or another Xbox Live-enabled title, Microsoft's online service works just fine.

THQ is currently working with Microsoft to remedy the issue. GameSpot will have more on this story as it develops
 
[quote name='Matt Young']The Team Xbox review is up. They gave it a 6.8.

http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/934/WWE-WrestleMania-21/p1/

I haven't read it yet, but Team Xbox seems to give good reviews. However, I'm still skeptical about any non-wrestling person reviewing a westling game.

I'll edit/reply later with thoughts.[/QUOTE]

I'll edit the main post with all of the review scores as they come out. I can't wait to hear some reviews from other CAGs.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Holy crap; my gamespot order has been 'processing' since last night, so I can't cancel it.

myke.
...dammit.[/QUOTE]

That really sucks man. I feel sorry for you.
 
Holy fucking hell, the game's so broken. I'm going to try it tomorrow at GameCrazy.. I was in Rhino tonight and three people asked for it.. I went to GameCrazy and two people came in and asked about it.. I can't imagine how pissed owners of this game are. I have spare credit and was going to get it because at least the online portion would play and be fun.. but holy shit.
 
[quote name='RawisJericho']That really sucks man. I feel sorry for you.[/QUOTE]

If I had syphillis, you should feel sorry for me.

As a CAG, you should (1) point out that it's foolish to pay full price for new releases, (2) in particular when it's a title from an unproven publisher.

Thanks though. I really hope that I enjoy it.

myke.
...seeing as how I have the CAG title to create and defend, once they get online working :roll:
 
The GameSpy review is from CAG's own ViolentLee; a reliable source and benevolent provider of Pocket Kingdom shirts. Perhaps he's seen this thread and has something else to add?
 
I can't help myself but to laugh at this game. It just keeps getting worse by the minute. I want to know what the fuck SG did when they delayed the game. I wish DoR 2 would hurry up and come out. Hopefully it'll be out by September.
 
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