[quote name='Spokker']Yes. It's okay to make any kind of entertainment that is off-putting to any person or group. It's the art that matters, not who it is going to offend. If someone wants to make a movie in which a group of guys treat women like objects and sex is about conquest, then great. That's the story they want to tell, and it's going to be entertaining to certain people and be offensive to others. I'd play a game that is about getting the most tail for the least amount of money if the gameplay is good.[/quote]
Yes, games are art. But no art is above criticism. Somebody can make that Frat Sex Bet game, sure, but people would criticize it. That's our right. And let's not forget, games are a business. Offending potential customers isn't good business sense. Why not try to be more female friendly for the sake of greater business potential?
[quote]There are plenty of games and genres that generally do not offend anyone that women do not play. I listed a few examples. Also, women generally do not play military shooters not because they portray women poorly (there are usually no women to portray poorly because men are sent to die in pointless wars), but because they think they are boring.[/quote]
Women don't play military shooters also because of the misogynistic crap that people say online while playing them. People call women bitches, tell them to go back to the kitchen, say they just "raped them" (Admittedly, the rape thing is used for both men and women. Doesn't make it ok.), etc. There are women who don't think they are boring. People are individuals who make their own minds up, but why would women play military shooters if they don't have women in them, or deal with the sexist garbage that seems so pervasive in online gaming? Nobody seems to want to put a stop to the bullshit people say online. Xbox live enforcement as far as I can tell doesn't enforce violations of anything said in voice chat. At least on the PC, people running servers can have no sexism and racism rules, and ban at the discretion of the mods, but no such systems exist for console games. And you wonder why women play more PC games.
Women play games of all kinds, including Civilization and racing games like Gran Turismo, but most women haven't been exposed to these types of games. Women are steered toward The Sims and Farmville and other social, casual games and told "You won't like those other games". How are they supposed to know if they like hardcore games without trying them? There needs to be more of an effort to get girls playing games that aren't "traditional girly games".
[quote]No, hardcore games are on PC as well, and women don't play those either. On the PC, they play social games. The most hardcore game they play in significant numbers is World of WarCraft. Or perhaps I'm willfully ignorant of all the female ARMA players.[/quote]
ARMA is a super-hardcore military sim that most gamers aren't into (I had zero interest in it until DayZ came out, for example). Battlefield or Team Fortress would provide a better spectrum of male/female ratio, if we're talking about shooters. And again, the hostile online environment toward female gamers tends to make them hide their gender if they can. A female friend of mine who plays WoW (Among other games, but that's her main one, yeah.) plays as a male character to avoid all the bullshit that can come with letting people know your gender.
[quote]Because men are more likely than women to be at work during the day.[/quote]
Perhaps more men would be househusbands if daytime television wasn't so terrible. Improving daytime TV, or making it more appealing to men, might help even out the number of men and women home during the day.
[quote]Deliverance used rape as a plot device. Games are art just like movies right?[/quote]
Right, that's one movie with male rape as a plot device. I can think of one other (The Shawshank Redemption), and I wouldn't be surprised if most of the other ones are also prison movies.
Rape being used as a plot device for women is significantly more common.
[quote]By the way, there was never anything wrong with saving the princess. Also, there are plenty of games with "good" female characters. You can go out and buy them. I have. Do women?[/quote]
Why isn't there anything wrong with saving the princess? It reinforces traditional stereotypes about the roles of men and women.
Women don't tend to be the protagonist of the story (This isn't a problem just with video games. That's still not an excuse.), and when they are, many times they'll be a male sexual fantasy rather than somebody women (Or anybody really), can relate to. (And don't say that buff men like Kratos are female sexual fantasies, because those are clearly male power fantasies.)
[quote]True, she's more representative of Bioware than anything else. There are many women behind the scenes who are making games that appeal to male gamers. The Assassin's Creed chick comes to mind. She wanted to be a game designer, worked hard and no one stopped her. Still not sure why she should be considered an inspiration for being a female game designer. She overcame no obstacles intrinsic to her gender as is commonly and wrongly believed. The admiration for her for overcoming these fictional obstacles is creepy
I'm not saying there are obstacles to women getting game industry jobs. I'm saying that they simply aren't getting them. This article
mentions that 12% of the development community is made up of women, and the percentage is even lower for top management. That's not a particularly good number. Jade Raymond gets creepy admiration because she's a successful, attractive female. Like every other successful, attractive female on the internet.
[quote]It's sort of like female comedy writers. You're in if you're a competent female writer or game designer because there is such a shortage for "equality" purposes. If Anita Sarkeesian learns C++ she could have a job at Ubisoft tomorrow. But "male-dominated" as a descriptor is not inherently negative nor is "female-dominated." If the video game industry is male-dominated, even despite efforts to get more women involved, should we continue to feel bad about it? Then again, why should we feel bad about something that might not even be true
Even if more women didn't get involved with game development over time (Although I think that will change, even if it's a slow change), men should still be expected to try to refrain from misogynistic attitudes and ideas.
[quote]Games become more mass market, more mainstream, more accessible, less complex, more dumbed down, less of what they used to be like, and Raymond is directly connecting this with an influx of women. It's not a surprise to see that the hardcore male gamers are becoming resentful.[/quote]
Why do people think that games need to become less complex and more dumbed down to be appealing to women? Do you not understand how insulting that is? Games are becoming more mainstream and more accessible because they make more money that way. Just look at Call of Duty, a game that as you've said women are not buying, and yet there's arguments to be made that CoD is dumbing down the FPS genre.
Dumbing down games makes them more attractive to lots of people, not just women.
[quote]I'm saying that Bioware destroyed Bioware. No, I did not say gay shit ruined the inventory and combat systems. But there's this idea that games are evolving socially while the gameplay is devolving and that this is a good thing. Not necessarily.[/quote]
This is another result of development decisions being made to make money. People are buying lots of multiplayer and social games right now. They are voting with their dollars to make games this way. It's not being done for the benefit of women, that's for sure. Call of Duty is getting more and more social with stuff like CoD Elite, and the game is as dudebro as ever.
[quote]True, but it's the informed opinion of a very accomplished insider. Many who disagree are feminists who aren't actually in the industry and have never tried to get into it.[/quote]
As stated above, there needs to be more of an effort to get women developing games. It's not just going to magically happen.
[quote]It's happening. In fact, the president is boasting that more women than men are graduating from college. Hallelujah.[/QUOTE]
All the more reason to start working to get more women into the industry.