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#1021 Blade3D

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 11:40 PM

I say let them do it if they want, I'll find it pretty funny if he needs one of those players he cut and has no cap room to get anyone.
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#1022 Chetty12

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 12:06 AM

Oh, what I "should" be doing. Well, I'm glad I have you to tell me that. I'm sure nobody else thinks that comes off pushy at all.

I was just expressing my opinion of what responsibilities i expected to be left up to the owners. Cap management was one of those i thought would be left to the Owners as long as it was in reason. I apalogize if you thought should was to pushy of a word. I feel if i said you "need to be" or you "have to be" are examples of what would have been pushy. Sorry if it came off that way.


You cut 8 players to make this trade go through. You don't think anybody would think that's a bit excessive? I'm not even going to personally comment on it. Let the facts speak for themselves. Regardless of their rating or standing with the team, 8 players had to be released to make room for Brady and Hernandez's contracts. The community can decide if that should be allowed.


When you say 8 players, it sounds like a lot. But then if you look at the numbers as a whole it's not that bad when it comes to the Jets situation. Currently they have 56 or 57 players set to their roster. They'd have to cut 3-4 of those players before week one anyway to get to the 53 maximum. That brings him down to 48 or 49, which is what i believe the minimum in madden. If he has an injury or two and he's light at a position, that's his fault for spreading his team thin. Why not allow him to make that mistake for himself if that's what he wants to do with his team?


As I said, we have to evaluate trades somehow, and player ratings have to be a part of that. If the different ratings don't have any effect on how the player performs in that system, what purpose do they serve?

I honestly thought it was common knowledge that these ratings were b.s and didn't actually effect anything in game. Like i said it might effect something in simulation but as far as in game goes, those ratings arn't very meaningful.

Show me where I've acted like this? By default, being commissioner is a position of authority. It's not one that I try to lord over people. But decisions have to be made...and they're not always popular. I try to get as much community feedback as possible. But contrary to what your intentions were, you weren't giving feedback. You were telling me how I was wrong and what I should do instead. How do you think that's going to be received? And ultimately, like I said, if you think you can do better, go ahead. No one is stopping you.

Maybe you didn't intend to sound a certain way. Maybe it's you being defensive or just trying to express your authority, but like i said to ME it doesn't come off in the most respectful tone. And to you thinking i wasn't getting feedback, that was my intention. You posted your points about how the trades was incorrect and i provided a counter-argument, once again i apologize if you thought my tone was too harsh or i was trying to tell you how things needed to be done but all i was trying to do and what i feel i did was provide a counter-argument.

Yup, this isn't true at all. The trade policy was discussed numerous times since this thread was created...way before teams were chosen. I stated the entire time that I'd like to not have to use the old trade cap, hoping that EA would do a good enough job with the salary cap that it wouldn't be needed. For the most part, I feel that they have. I just don't think anybody anticipated cutting 15% of your roster to make a trade go through.


If it was discussed i apologize, but when it says trades are encouraged i felt like people would be free to trade who they want for fair compensation as long as they arn't ripping off someone. I'm not even opposed to the trade system you proposed to regulate the amount of trades, i think that's fine. I also feel there should be a better way than scheme overall, because like you said it varies from team to team and Bush for the Dolphins is a 92 but for a power running team he's low 70's, when he's actually something in between. So whatever you feel is necessary to regulate it is fine.

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#1023 Chetty12

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 12:13 AM

I say let them do it if they want, I'll find it pretty funny if he needs one of those players he cut and has no cap room to get anyone.


This. If someone goes light on a position and is low on cap and can't sign replacements, it's their own fault. If someone gets low on cap and can't resign their star player they just traded for, it's their own fault. I just think if people are going to make mistakes, let them and they will learn from it if theyre smart and if not they will pay for it. Sometimes the risk will pay off for them too.

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#1024 dr0ppinL0adz

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 12:16 AM

LOL.. when did I ever say I was going to cut 8 players?? That is how HE did it. My plan was to cut/trade Jason Smith who makes I believe 4 million this year. Since I have Howard starting at RT, I could wait til we allowed free agency and grab a cheap backup if I couldnt make a trade for him.

You're telling me the Jets wouldn't, or any team for that matter, wouldn't release one of their backups in order to get a top 3 QB to fit under the cap? I understand I'd be giving up the best corner in the NFL, but it's a videogame. To me, Cromartie can replace him, and I like Wilson enough to start him. I use a lot of zone, 2 man under, and double coverage, so upgrading a great deal at the QB and TE (I run a lot of 2 TE sets), and not losing too much defensively gameplan-wise, is the reasoning behind my trade.

And yes, the chances of this trade actually happening in the NFL is close to 0%, but 2 years ago, who would have ever thought the Colts would release Peyton Manning, and allow him to CHOOSE his next team? I'm just saying, I don't believe I would be abusing the salary cap system by any means. I'm not dumb enough to release 1/3 of my team and have cap penalties for the next 3 seasons.

I'm fine either way. Obviously I'd prefer to have the trade, but if it's problematic to some of you, I understand your reasons, and I'm ok dropping the trade. I'll just build through the draft. I just remember reading these Calvin Johnson trade posts so I thought this was the norm. I am definitely down for a super-realistic NFL season (on the field, and GM-wise) if that's what we're going for.

#1025 DarkTower80

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 12:28 AM

My opinion is that if a trade is going to put you over the cap, you should post that you are aware of the fact and have moves planned to remedy that fact. That is an important part of the discussion.

#1026 CAGLeagueSports

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 12:38 AM

Well, that's probably why Chetty making such a lengthy case for the trade shouldn't have happened. Either way, this issue needed to be sorted out because like I said, we've never had to deal with it before, and it was bound to come up sooner or later. And just the fact that dr0ppinL0adz planned on handling it by looking to move one player, while Chetty would have done it by moving 8 basically illustrates why we do need some kind of policy for dealing with moves that put you over the cap.

I exchanged some PM's with the commissioners in the other league, and one idea that was brainstormed was allowing a player to be cut, but limiting it to one player. That way, the team with no cap space really has to decide if the move is still worth it if they have to get rid of a $4 million player...and it prevents them from bleeding their roster by getting rid of special teamers and backups.

And in all honesty, if this plan had been mentioned from the beginning much of this back and forth could have been avoided. This was a pretty huge trade, so knowing that both sides were aware that it would cause a cap problem would have been helpful. Let's try to include this kind of stuff with the proposals in the future. It'll save us a lot of arguing.
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#1027 Blade3D

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 12:40 AM

My opinion is that if a trade is going to put you over the cap, you should post that you are aware of the fact and have moves planned to remedy that fact. That is an important part of the discussion.


Agreed, which is what the majority of this is about.
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#1028 Hemingway012

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 12:54 AM

alright so is the trade okay or not thats all i want to know?

#1029 Rapid shot

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 01:03 AM

This. If someone goes light on a position and is low on cap and can't sign replacements, it's their own fault. If someone gets low on cap and can't resign their star player they just traded for, it's their own fault. I just think if people are going to make mistakes, let them and they will learn from it if theyre smart and if not they will pay for it. Sometimes the risk will pay off for them too.


I agree with this completely.

#1030 HydroX

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 01:50 AM

1. I don't like the trade. It's flat out ridiculous.

2. I think the core player trade rules should go into effect, personally. There should also be an "elite" or "franchise" section of 94 or 95+ overall players, where those players must command a certain price or be untradeable.

#1031 CAGLeagueSports

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 01:58 AM

This. If someone goes light on a position and is low on cap and can't sign replacements, it's their own fault. If someone gets low on cap and can't resign their star player they just traded for, it's their own fault. I just think if people are going to make mistakes, let them and they will learn from it if theyre smart and if not they will pay for it. Sometimes the risk will pay off for them too.


I agree with this completely.


The problem with this logic is when someone just obliterates their team and then decides that they're not having any fun anymore, and drops from the league, we won't be able to find a replacement because nobody is going to want a team with no cap space and only 46 players. There at least has to be limits. I hope that having a policy of allowing one player to be cut to get a trade under the cap limit is acceptable. In my opinion, that's a decent compromise.

alright so is the trade okay or not thats all i want to know?


We're still going to wait till Week 1 to see how the roster cuts go and see where the final salary cap numbers are. Just let the deal simmer for now.
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#1032 jza1218

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 01:59 AM

I'm really not a fan of this trade either. I think it flat out stinks, on multiple levels. That said, I do think you should have to cut a high-priced player to get under the cap.

#1033 JoelyPoley

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:05 AM

Maybe I missed it but I figured we would be starting with the current 53 man roster which means no cuts in the first preseason anyways.
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#1034 Rapid shot

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:08 AM

The problem with this logic is when someone just obliterates their team and then decides that they're not having any fun anymore, and drops from the league, we won't be able to find a replacement because nobody is going to want a team with no cap space and only 46 players. There at least has to be limits. I hope that having a policy of allowing one player to be cut to get a trade under the cap limit is acceptable. In my opinion, that's a decent compromise.



We're still going to wait till Week 1 to see how the roster cuts go and see where the final salary cap numbers are. Just let the deal simmer for now.


Well I guess that's true I would hate to penalize future team owners because someone made a stupid mistake and quit. So with that in mind I wouldn't mind adding to the trade rules that if a player is rated 90+ then they are arent allowed to be traded.

#1035 Hemingway012

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:09 AM

[quote name='dr0ppinL0adz']LOL.. when did I ever say I was going to cut 8 players?? That is how HE did it. My plan was to cut/trade Jason Smith who makes I believe 4 million this year. Since I have Howard starting at RT, I could wait til we allowed free agency and grab a cheap backup if I couldnt make a trade for him. )



Just wanted to point out what the jets owner said. he doesnt plain on cutting 8 people he is thinking about one player.

#1036 Chetty12

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:11 AM

Maybe I missed it but I figured we would be starting with the current 53 man roster which means no cuts in the first preseason anyways.


On some rosters they still put IR/PUP/practice squad players, so it brings the number higher than 53 for some teams.

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#1037 Chetty12

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:14 AM

Like i mentioned the Jets have 56 and i know gb starts with over 60 players on their roster.

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#1038 Chetty12

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:18 AM

Another thing i noticed and i know was discussed, are we keeping the injury slider on 50?

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#1039 CAGLeagueSports

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:20 AM

Maybe I missed it but I figured we would be starting with the current 53 man roster which means no cuts in the first preseason anyways.


Yeah, rosters are all over the place. The Jets have 56 players. The Titans have 68. Really weird.
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#1040 dr0ppinL0adz

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:21 AM

Just curious...what "stinks" or is "flat out ridiculous" about this trade?. I'd like to hear your reasoning just in case I'm not seeing something clearly. It seems fair to me. He wants to rebuild with Mallett, Brady will just hold Mallett's progression back. Revis for Brady. Backup TE for a possible future WR1, def WR2 (remember Stephen Hill is a rookie drafted 2nd rd. If i remember correctly, jets traded up to get him). Sanchez for 3rd and 6th. Tebow went for a 4th and 6th.

Limiting trading 1 elite player per year and only allow dropping 1 player to fit a trade under the cap sounds fair to me. But what is considered "elite"? If an 85 rated player on my team is a 92 on a different team (and vice versa) is he elite or not?

#1041 JoelyPoley

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:21 AM

Another thing i noticed and i know was discussed, are we keeping the injury slider on 50?


I've only had 3 injuries in 3 ccm seasons. None lasted more than 5 weeks. Has anybody else had problems with serious injuries happening all the time? I'm sure the bears wish they could turn injuries off after losing forte lol.
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#1042 fsecreast

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:32 AM

Honestly I think the trade should go through, and then let these guys figure out how to work out the cap. If he has to cut 8 players to get under the cap, then let him do it. I don't see the big deal.

This is a video game. Comparing it to what a real life team would do is silly. People are supposed to have fun playing this game and if they want certain guys on their team we should let that happen.

I'm not in favor in placing all these restrictions on trading because it really hurts the people who got stuck with shitty teams(like me, the Browns). I feel like all they do is ensure i'll be stuck with a crap team for the duration of this league.

#1043 bvharris

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:34 AM

Just curious...what "stinks" or is "flat out ridiculous" about this trade?. I'd like to hear your reasoning just in case I'm not seeing something clearly. It seems fair to me. He wants to rebuild with Mallett, Brady will just hold Mallett's progression back. Revis for Brady. Backup TE for a possible future WR1, def WR2 (remember Stephen Hill is a rookie drafted 2nd rd. If i remember correctly, jets traded up to get him). Sanchez for 3rd and 6th. Tebow went for a 4th and 6th.


Not really offering an opinion on the trade since I'm not in this league, but you're saying "backup TE" like people don't know who Aaron Hernandez is. Almost anyone controlling the Patriots will have him on the field for every snap, which he is for the actual Pats. It's a 2-TE offense, neither him nor Gronk ever leave the field. Hernandez would be the best TE on almost every team in the league.

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#1044 dr0ppinL0adz

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:49 AM

Not really offering an opinion on the trade since I'm not in this league, but you're saying "backup TE" like people don't know who Aaron Hernandez is. Almost anyone controlling the Patriots will have him on the field for every snap, which he is for the actual Pats. It's a 2-TE offense, neither him nor Gronk ever leave the field. Hernandez would be the best TE on almost every team in the league.


What I think you're missing from my statement is that Hernandez is being traded for another player that can replace him in the starting lineup (in the future) and will be on the field most plays now. Just because the Pats use a 2 tight end offense, does that mean the user controlling the Pats has to as well? You could have Gronk, Lloyd, Welker, and Hill every play if you want to. Plus, Lloyd and Welker won't be there forever. Stephen Hill is like 6'4" or 6'5" and one of the fastest players. What good is a 2 TE set with no WR's?

#1045 bvharris

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:54 AM

What good is a 2 TE set with no WR's?


Hernandez can play WR, and does so with regularity. Hell, the dude plays halfback from time to time. He's rated 79 at WR in the Patriots scheme (I know because I use them in my offline franchise) which makes him their third best WR in these rosters. He's also 22.

Like I said, I'm not arguing the trade since I don't have a horse in the race, but anyone who watches any football at all knows that Stephen Hill does not equal Aaron Hernandez (which is how you put it in your post).

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#1046 hammurabi1337

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 03:12 AM

I've only had 3 injuries in 3 ccm seasons. None lasted more than 5 weeks. Has anybody else had problems with serious injuries happening all the time? I'm sure the bears wish they could turn injuries off after losing forte lol.


I've only had two minor injuries to Jacoby Ford in my Raiders career, which honestly is not surprising. They've definitely fixed it from last year where everyone was made of glass.

Question: are we starting with pre-existing injuries on?
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#1047 dr0ppinL0adz

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 03:27 AM

Hernandez can play WR, and does so with regularity. Hell, the dude plays halfback from time to time. He's rated 79 at WR in the Patriots scheme (I know because I use them in my offline franchise) which makes him their third best WR in these rosters. He's also 22.

Like I said, I'm not arguing the trade since I don't have a horse in the race, but anyone who watches any football at all knows that Stephen Hill does not equal Aaron Hernandez (which is how you put it in your post).


If we're going the realistic route...no way the pats line up Hernandez as their #1 WR 3 years from now when lloyd and welker are gone. Obviously they are not exact equals right now, one is a rookie. His ratings could easily soar or plummet by Week 8. Especially with 5 players involved, no way each will equal in current value. I was under the impression since he wants to start Mallett that he's looking to the future. Im giving him his future #1 WR if he progresses him correctly and the current Nfl #1 CB. I get a young #1 TE and Brady - who will play at his current level for what...3 years tops? He's 35 yrs old right now. i get your point that hernandez > hill, but i also think revis > brady. It's a trade so there is give and take.

#1048 n8rockerasu

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:07 AM

This is getting ridiculous. maybe we should've just done a fantasy draft...


You think that would have stopped people from wanting to trade? lol. It's just a little conversation. I don't think anyone is going to get hurt from it. Thia issue was going to come up one way or another. Better to get it sorted out now.

#1049 bvharris

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:10 AM

You think that would have stopped people from wanting to trade? lol. It's just a little conversation. I don't think anyone is going to get hurt from it. Thia issue was going to come up one way or another. Better to get it sorted out now.


Besides, compared to some of the trade discussion bloodbaths from the other league last year, this is basically Ladies' Society Garden Club Afternoon Tea. :lol:

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#1050 siradam134

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:21 AM

Mr. L0adz,

just tossing in my opinion, but i too, have no horse in this race.

In my opinion, it looks like you're honestly selling snake oil when you're tying to hype up Stephen Hill.

The part you keep bringing up is "down the road, stephen hill will be great'.

The part you're leaving out(and perhaps dont realize), is that this (and most other leagues) probably wont REACH 3 seasons this year.

Guys get bored, get burned out. I'm not seeing stephen hill progressing enough to Replace Brady OR hernandez in a 1:1 swap. Great, you're giving him revis for Brady. But Hernandez is a top 5 TE in the real NFL, how does this translate to the pats trash in this league?

I'll just leave you with this bite of knowledge:

Had Hernandez not missed two games last year, he would have finished with over 80 receptions and 1,000 receiving yards.

Stats like those are better than most wide receivers.

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