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CAGLS: Madden 13 Gentlemen's League - We Finished! Thanks for Playing!


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#1501 n8rockerasu

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:23 PM

Yeah, I do honestly believe it's bad enough to be banned.

As for punts, if angled correctly near the boundaries, the returner will try to catch it but the ball will just bounce off their leg. I've had that happen to me as well.

Just another cheap way to get the ball back.


Weird. I don't even think my returner was getting to the ball in time. The way the game was reacting to the punt, it was like in the preseason when your kicker would get put in to punt. The screen would kind of zoom in when it flipped around, and it looked like the ball was hitting off the side of the punter's foot. But it would go maybe 30-40 yards. I was able to recover it every time...but by the time one of my guys got to it, his defenders were right there too, so it was pretty nerve racking.

I'd like to hear Hemingway's explanation of what he was trying to do because there was just something about it that didn't feel right. Like I said, if the intent is to not allow a return, then angle it out of bounds. Skipping it along the field does make it seem like you're trying to get the ball back. I do feel this needs to be looked into.

As for completely banning the squib kick...I do think Joely Poley's example is relevant...and like he said, even if he did somehow manage to recover it, it wouldn't make any difference...as long as it was at the end of the game and he was winning. You would have to limit a similar situation at the end of the 1st half though...because if the kicking team recovered the squib with time left, they could be in field goal range or have a decent shot at a hail mary.

That would basically only leave one situation where kicking a squib is ok... :05 or less with a lead in the 4th quarter. Honestly, it's just another example of EA's horrible programming, and the fact that they have no clue how the sport is supposed to play.

#1502 JoelyPoley

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:31 PM

That would basically only leave one situation where kicking a squib is ok... :05 or less with a lead in the 4th quarter. Honestly, it's just another example of EA's horrible programming, and the fact that they have no clue how the sport is supposed to play.


I think that is fair enough. You really shouldn't be using squib at any other time anyways.
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#1503 Chetty12

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:34 PM

Weird. I don't even think my returner was getting to the ball in time. The way the game was reacting to the punt, it was like in the preseason when your kicker would get put in to punt. The screen would kind of zoom in when it flipped around, and it looked like the ball was hitting off the side of the punter's foot. But it would go maybe 30-40 yards. I was able to recover it every time...but by the time one of my guys got to it, his defenders were right there too, so it was pretty nerve racking.

I'd like to hear Hemingway's explanation of what he was trying to do because there was just something about it that didn't feel right. Like I said, if the intent is to not allow a return, then angle it out of bounds. Skipping it along the field does make it seem like you're trying to get the ball back. I do feel this needs to be looked into.


The reason he angles it like that is to try and get it to skip further down the field. Doing it this way just is a safer way to get around the same yardage of a regular punt, without the danger of a return. Since it is pretty easy to get a punt return he punts this way. Personally, i angle my punts high and my punts don't go as far but i rarely have any returns against me. Honestly, the other punting method is fairly risky as well because if a person plans for it they can catch a fairly short punt with a lot of space to return.

And he can't recover a punt(if he touches it before you do it just downs it, it's not like a kickoff, possession of the ball would still be yours.) without you touching it, so i'm not sure what you mean by he was trying to get the ball back by angling it away from you.

Just responding for him basically cause he's still going to be at work for a couple of hours and it seemed like you wanted answers now.

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#1504 bvharris

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:10 PM

I think that is fair enough. You really shouldn't be using squib at any other time anyways.


End of the 1st half also.

#1505 n8rockerasu

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:13 PM

The reason he angles it like that is to try and get it to skip further down the field. Doing it this way just is a safer way to get around the same yardage of a regular punt, without the danger of a return. Since it is pretty easy to get a punt return he punts this way. Personally, i angle my punts high and my punts don't go as far but i rarely have any returns against me. Honestly, the other punting method is fairly risky as well because if a person plans for it they can catch a fairly short punt with a lot of space to return.

And he can't recover a punt(if he touches it before you do it just downs it, it's not like a kickoff, possession of the ball would still be yours.) without you touching it, so i'm not sure what you mean by he was trying to get the ball back by angling it away from you.

Just responding for him basically cause he's still going to be at work for a couple of hours and it seemed like you wanted answers now.


Even if that's his reasoning, it still begs the question of if it's an exploit. Like I said, because of the awkward angle and trajectory of the ball, my players were having trouble even getting to it in time. I feel this is very similar to how they react to a squib kick because they obviously see the ball coming, but don't know what to do with it because of the weird angle/speed, and end up just standing there watching it bounce. I have no doubt it is effective. A lot of these "Maddenisms" are. But that doesn't make it a legit play.

As for recovering it, yeah he can't just outrun my guys and grab it, but considering the difficulty the return team has in picking the ball up and how quickly the kicking team gets downfield, it greatly increases the chances for a muff or a catch followed by a big hit causing a fumble. I realize I could just call for a fair catch, but it still feels like a pretty cheap play and is fairly unrealistic.

#1506 Hemingway012

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:03 PM

Well, doing it on every kick off is pretty standard "douchebag procedure" anyway. You think it's bad enough to even ban it situationally though? I was wondering if there was something similar on punts.

Hemingway seemed to be intentionally shanking punts in our game yesterday, which was making them skip along the field, and my players had a way harder time than they should have recovering them. I was just coming in here to ask him what that was.

I don't mind people kicking for the sideline, but this just seemed "Maddeny" Special teams in this game really is terrible with how easily it is to return punts/kicks...and then how horrible the return team is if you kick it any other way.



i was just kicking a line drive towards the line so kick returns are harder but if you would like ill just kick them right to your guy. its not a big part of my play so i just wont do that if it makes every one feel better.

#1507 jza1218

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:27 PM

If you're afraid of someone returning a punt, why wouldn't you angle it out of bounds?

#1508 Hemingway012

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:31 PM

If you're afraid of someone returning a punt, why wouldn't you angle it out of bounds?




i never said i was afraid its just a smarter way to punt and most the time my punt went out or close to the line. and as i said i would stop doing it ill just punt it straight up so every one does not have to worry.

#1509 n8rockerasu

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:07 PM

i was just kicking a line drive towards the line so kick returns are harder but if you would like ill just kick them right to your guy. its not a big part of my play so i just wont do that if it makes every one feel better.


Well, see, I think that's just the thing that triggers "full retard AI"...the fact that it's a line drive (which basically is a squib). I'm not saying there was any malicious intent behind it, but because of the way the return teams handles it (like the squib), it creates an unfair advantage.

Honestly, that was the first I had seen of it, so I was kind of trying to figure it out as we played. The first time you did it, I honestly thought your kicking timer lagged or something and you just screwed up the punt. The way it causes the camera to jerk when it spins around like that, it's just really jarring. I'm not outright calling for it to be banned. I just think we need more opinions on it. I might even see how the other league feels about it. I don't want to jump to any conclusions. But like I said, it's very similar to the squib kick in its execution.

#1510 n8rockerasu

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:18 PM

i never said i was afraid its just a smarter way to punt and most the time my punt went out or close to the line. and as i said i would stop doing it ill just punt it straight up so every one does not have to worry.


Well, let's not make things up. It never went out of bounds. A couple times I remember it hitting near the line and bouncing back toward the middle of the field. And it being "close to the line" is irrelevant. Calling it a "smarter way to punt" is also subjective. If smarter means "the players have a lesser understanding of how to handle it", then sure...I guess that's "smarter". But it makes it cheaper too.

For me, personally, I usually try to kick the ball high enough to make the returner (ie. the person playing the game) question if he has room to return it or not. I got a lot of fumbles from this last year off of people getting greedy thinking they could return it instead of just fair catching the ball. To me, that's what "smart" means. Not doing something that the game doesn't handle properly.

#1511 Hemingway012

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:23 PM

Well, let's not make things up. It never went out of bounds. A couple times I remember it hitting near the line and bouncing back toward the middle of the field. And it being "close to the line" is irrelevant. Calling it a "smarter way to punt" is also subjective. If smarter means "the players have a lesser understanding of how to handle it", then sure...I guess that's "smarter". But it makes it cheaper too.

For me, personally, I usually try to kick the ball high enough to make the returner (ie. the person playing the game) question if he has room to return it or not. I got a lot of fumbles from this last year off of people getting greedy thinking they could return it instead of just fair catching the ball. To me, that's what "smart" means. Not doing something that the game doesn't handle properly.



and as i said before its not a major part of the way i play so to make every one feel better i wont do it no need to make it a big thing!!!!!

#1512 n8rockerasu

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:27 PM

and as i said before its not a major part of the way i play so to make every one feel better i wont do it no need to make it a big thing!!!!!


That's fine...but if it's "one of those things", we do need to discuss it to make sure everyone is clear on whether it's allowed or not. Just because you agree to stop doing it doesn't mean somebody else won't turn around and do it next week. These things need to be discussed to keep everybody on the same page. Calm yourself.

#1513 Chetty12

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:49 PM

If it's used situationally, for example trying to pin the opponent deep from say your 50 yard line and your trying to squeeze it inside the 10. Then i think that's a decent option and should be allowed. Because if you hit it too far toward the sideline then it goes out of bounds and if you hit it in play then it'll either be downed inside the 10 or go into the end zone. Other than that maybe everyone should just stick to regular punts.

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#1514 n8rockerasu

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:02 PM

If it's used situationally, for example trying to pin the opponent deep from say your 50 yard line and your trying to squeeze it inside the 10. Then i think that's a decent option and should be allowed. Because if you hit it too far toward the sideline then it goes out of bounds and if you hit it in play then it'll either be downed inside the 10 or go into the end zone. Other than that maybe everyone should just stick to regular punts.


But isn't that an argument for not learning how to punt better and kick it out of bounds like teams actually do? That's my biggest issue, using "Maddenisms" as a way to accomplish what other teams do "normally". If you're legitimately good at the game, you shouldn't have to use gimmicks and tricks to beat your opponent. Beat them snap for snap, playcall for playcall, end you'll earn a lot more respect. This may come as shock to some, but there actually are more important things than having the most points at the end of the game.

#1515 Chetty12

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:07 PM

But isn't that an argument for not learning how to punt better and kick it out of bounds like teams actually do? That's my biggest issue, using "Maddenisms" as a way to accomplish what other teams do "normally". If you're legitimately good at the game, you shouldn't have to use gimmicks and tricks to beat your opponent. Beat them snap for snap, playcall for playcall, end you'll earn a lot more respect. This may come as shock to some, but there actually are more important things than having the most points at the end of the game.


I'm not sure i understand how coffin punting and pinning your opponent is not a legit strategy or considered a "maddenisms"? Maybe the wording i chose just caused some confusion. I guess i'm just saying situational punting should still be allowed and take away the low hanging sideline punt for the rest of the field. Like i said, i don't do it anyway, i angle my punts to have a higher hangtime so it's not a big deal to me either way. Just giving a suggestion.

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#1516 dr0ppinL0adz

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:15 PM

First, your having a difficult time seperating real life and Madden. In real life is Jennings worth a first? Easily no. In Madden is a 90 plus ovr receiver with 94 speed and acceleration with a high catch worth a first. Easily yes.

Secondly, janoris is a special case of a first round talent dropping because of off field problems. Casey heyward is a 70 but does not have close to the man or press coverage of house, hence why I said they don't have the measurables I look for. His zone coverage could be a 99 but that doesn't help me at all. This is another situation where you are having a hard time seperating real life and Madden. We don't know what kind of players are actually going to be going in the second round of the Madden draft.

Lastly, people are putting to much stock into draft picks IMO. Yeah there nice but at some point you need the pieces to win now especially in a league that would only go 3-5 years.


Like I said earlier, I just thought a 1st packaged with what you were giving away was too much for what you were receiving. And apparently, I am not the only one who thought this as your original trade was rejected.

To your second point, you asked me a question, I answered. To say Janoris is a "special case" seems like an excuse. He's a highly rated CB drafted in the 2nd round regardless of HOW it happened. There are plenty of players each draft that drop due to outside circumstances. Considering there was a second to last 2nd rd pick with high zone coverage, is it really not plausible to believe there would be an early 2nd rd pick next year with man coverage relative to House?

I was under the impression this league is to last ~8 seasons. Now you're saying 3-5... if that is all you are planning to play, then yes, those draft picks are not of huge value to you. But once you leave, those players that would have been picked up in seasons 1-3 are of huge value to the new owner. Yes there is no potential rating, but those 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks of this year will have had 5 years of XP added to their OVR by the time you plan on leaving.

#1517 n8rockerasu

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:18 PM

I'm not sure i understand how coffin punting and pinning your opponent is not a legit strategy or considered a "maddenisms"? Maybe the wording i chose just caused some confusion. I guess i'm just saying situational punting should still be allowed and take away the low hanging sideline punt for the rest of the field. Like i said, i don't do it anyway, i angle my punts to have a higher hangtime so it's not a big deal to me either way. Just giving a suggestion.


What part of "EA programming" can you not wrap your head around? You could make that exact same statement about the squib kick...as you could make the same argument about the QB Sneak in Madden 12. But if the AI doesn't react properly to the play, it becomes an exploit. It doesn't matter what the player's intent was or how realistic of a play it is. If shitty programming makes it ripe for exploit, it needs to be looked at.

#1518 n8rockerasu

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:22 PM

I was under the impression this league is to last ~8 seasons. Now you're saying 3-5... if that is all you are planning to play, then yes, those draft picks are not of huge value to you. But once you leave, those players that would have been picked up in seasons 1-3 are of huge value to the new owner. Yes there is no potential rating, but those 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks of this year will have had 5 years of XP added to their OVR by the time you plan on leaving.


Just to touch on this, the other league played practically year round last year, advancing every 3 days, and they got through 5 seasons. We're on a 4 day advancement schedule, so getting through 5 seasons is going to probably be the best we could hope for. That may not seem like a lot, but in a league with 32 human owners who actually play their games, that's pretty damn impressive, and far more than most leagues accomplish. There just really isn't time to do more than that.

#1519 Chetty12

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:22 PM

I was under the impression this league is to last ~8 seasons. Now you're saying 3-5... if that is all you are planning to play, then yes, those draft picks are not of huge value to you. But once you leave, those players that would have been picked up in seasons 1-3 are of huge value to the new owner. Yes there is no potential rating, but those 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks of this year will have had 5 years of XP added to their OVR by the time you plan on leaving.


I'm not quite sure where you heard 8 seasons but i've never read that on here. Let's be generous and say we go through each season and offseason in 10 weeks. That means by time the next madden comes out we'd have time for about 5 seasons an that's being extremely generous with the 10 week time frame for a season/offseason.

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#1520 Chetty12

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:29 PM

What part of "EA programming" can you not wrap your head around? You could make that exact same statement about the squib kick...as you could make the same argument about the QB Sneak in Madden 12. But if the AI doesn't react properly to the play, it becomes an exploit. It doesn't matter what the player's intent was or how realistic of a play it is. If shitty programming makes it ripe for exploit, it needs to be looked at.


All i was saying is the AI in the situation of aiming for the between the 1-10 yard line on a coffin punt does not come in to play. Unless you plan on returning the ball from within your own 10 yard line, which would be a massive mistake to begin with, you wouldn't even be back to catch the ball with your punt returner. On that type of play, in madden and real life, most people pull up the returner and try to block the gunners on the ST so they don't down it inside the 10 anyway. With your returner you'd play it the same way if the ball was angled or if it was skyed to the roof of the stadium. Once again it was just a suggestion, you said we were going to discuss it so i was just throwing it out there.

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#1521 Chetty12

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:54 PM

Just a note on trades for everyone. It seems if one User has played his game for that week it won't allow the trade to go through even if both Users were online at the same time.

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#1522 jza1218

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:02 AM

Just a note on trades for everyone. It seems if one User has played his game for that week it won't allow the trade to go through even if both Users were online at the same time.


Well that probably makes sense.

#1523 dr0ppinL0adz

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:06 AM

I'm not quite sure where you heard 8 seasons but i've never read that on here. Let's be generous and say we go through each season and offseason in 10 weeks. That means by time the next madden comes out we'd have time for about 5 seasons an that's being extremely generous with the 10 week time frame for a season/offseason.


You know what... you are absolutely correct. For some reason, I thought it was going to advance much faster. My bad

#1524 n8rockerasu

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:23 AM

All i was saying is the AI in the situation of aiming for the between the 1-10 yard line on a coffin punt does not come in to play. Unless you plan on returning the ball from within your own 10 yard line, which would be a massive mistake to begin with, you wouldn't even be back to catch the ball with your punt returner. On that type of play, in madden and real life, most people pull up the returner and try to block the gunners on the ST so they don't down it inside the 10 anyway. With your returner you'd play it the same way if the ball was angled or if it was skyed to the roof of the stadium. Once again it was just a suggestion, you said we were going to discuss it so i was just throwing it out there.


And if the players on the return team don't block the players streaking downfield and just allow them to get to the ball at the 5 yard line, then what? That's the point...the AI players run around like bumbling idiots on line drive aka squib kicks, so kicking it like that gives the kicking team an unfair advantage. Why does the onus fall on the receiving team to just "deal with it" rather than on the kicking team to "learn how to punt"?

For that matter, what he was doing isn't a "coffin punt". He's already said he kicks a line drive...which is what causes it to go short and skip along the field. This is a coffin punt.



#1525 Steggy

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:54 AM

Just finished a game against the 49ers. Was a good matchup... Rodgers had 3 TD passes.

Only problem was 2 of them was to the defense.

Packers lose 10-17.

#1526 cgarb84

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:21 AM

Doo Mane and I tried twice to play our game tonight but the lag was AWFUL and our game got disconnected both times. This was my best night to play so if it doesn't work out the rest of Week 1 then I will take a loss. I'm not sure if it was my Internet or EA or what but it was unplayable. I can't play tomorrow night so if we can't get together on Friday night it won't happen. It would suck to start this way but if it happens so be it. I think we would have a good game too but it's honestly hard to tell with that much lag lol.
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#1527 Dark Rider

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:33 AM

Steelers - 38
Broncos - 24

In my first game ever with the Broncos, it was a close one. The Broncos run game never really got started. Manning had problems all night, sometimes having receivers drop balls that hit them in the hands, the DBs did not have the same problem though, as Manning threw for 4 INTs.

Good game Shift! I was not at my best tonight.

#1528 Blade3D

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:47 AM

Just finished a game against the 49ers. Was a good matchup... Rodgers had 3 TD passes.

Only problem was 2 of them was to the defense.

Packers lose 10-17.


Yep was a good game. You knocked Gore out with a broken jaw.
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#1529 shotgunshine

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:53 AM

Does anyone have this problem in offline connected careers mode? The camera is set to zoom or whatever the default one is called. I'll switch it to wide and after one play it will default back every single time. Is this a bug or am I missing something? This doesn't happen to me when i'm playing online.
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#1530 swift fix

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:15 AM

Steelers - 38
Broncos - 24

In my first game ever with the Broncos, it was a close one. The Broncos run game never really got started. Manning had problems all night, sometimes having receivers drop balls that hit them in the hands, the DBs did not have the same problem though, as Manning threw for 4 INTs.

Good game Shift! I was not at my best tonight.


It was a good game! I was surprised you didn't air it out more than you did in the first half. Your passing game was very successful against my zone defense, but not so much once I shifted into man in the second half.

The game was much close than what the score indicates. Rider could absolutely move the chains against my defense; however, turnovers were ultimately the deciding factor. An interception in the end zone to prevent a score at the end of the first half and an interception +6 in the second helped me jump ahead. From that point on it was all about hanging on to my lead.