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2012 Election Thread


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#1141 4thHorseman

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:54 PM

Got a giggle out of this, thought I would post it here as well about last night's debate:

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#1142 ID2006

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:55 PM

Got a giggle out of this, thought I would post it here as well about last night's debate:


I was actually thinking of that partway through the debate.

#1143 dohdough

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:04 PM

I was actually thinking of that partway through the debate.

When it comes to actual content, Biden wins hands down, but as for the theatricality of the event, he loses. He doesn't come off like a smug douche like Ryan, but the interruptions and laughing doesn't really endear him to "undecideds" and low-info's regardless of the accuracy or veracity of his arguments. Instead, they see it as a "tone" problem like the one Stewart describes on his Crossfire appearance, but if his debate with O'Reilly is any indication of his leanings, I think he's changed his tune a bit. Unfortunately, most people don't really understand politics, so we're left with "tone."

Edited by dohdough, 12 October 2012 - 04:15 PM.


#1144 dmaul1114

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:34 PM

Haven't watched it yet (DVR'd) it, but have been reading about the tone etc.

I think that's fine. VP debates have little impact on the election, so Biden's performance may have been good for firing up the base again who were very unhappy with Obama's performance in the first debate.

It's Obama's job in the last two debates to win over undecided independents.

#1145 ID2006

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:01 PM

When it comes to actual content, Biden wins hands down, but as for the theatricality of the event, he loses. He doesn't come off like a smug douche like Ryan, but the interruptions and laughing doesn't really endear him to "undecideds" and low-info's regardless of the accuracy or veracity of his arguments. Instead, they see it as a "tone" problem like the one Stewart describes on his Crossfire appearance, but if his debate with O'Reilly is any indication of his leanings, I think he's changed his tune a bit. Unfortunately, most people don't really understand politics, so we're left with "tone."


I agree. Nearly every time he smiled or interrupted, I was thinking about how people would perceive that. Reminded me of Bruce Banner losing a bit of control, but inevitably laying out some disorderly smackdown.

#1146 Thekrakrabbit

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:26 PM

Why do people even comment on the debates when all that is ever said is:

Democrats: "my guy won, the other guy is a douche".

Republicans: "my guy won, the other guy is an idiot and a douche".

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#1147 Clak

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:31 PM

How very meta of you.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

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#1148 camoor

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:44 PM

Why do people even comment on the debates when all that is ever said is:

Democrats: "my guy won, the other guy is a douche".

Republicans: "my guy won, the other guy is an idiot and a douche".


Who is saying Ryan won? Are you high?

#1149 Purple Flames

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:55 PM

What I liked most about this debate was that Biden did what I've been wanting to see Dems do for the past few years: call conservatives out on the sheer amount of bullshit they try to pass off as fact. I'm tired of the this political climate where, if you're on the left, you're 'too aggressive" if you actually have the balls to say that your opponent is flat out lying. This always leads to Dems having to walk on eggshells when it comes to most issues and they always lose in the end.

I hope Biden's performance last night starts to set a precedent on the front.

#1150 Clak

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:08 PM

If only, that's been one of the problems with the party, no backbone. Knowing the other side is bullshitting you is one thing, saying so is another.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#1151 dohdough

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:30 PM

If only, that's been one of the problems with the party, no backbone. Knowing the other side is bullshitting you is one thing, saying so is another.

Deval Patrick for Pres 2016;)

I'm half-joking because he's a bit too neo-liberal for my tastes, but he's the Obama prototype.

#1152 Thekrakrabbit

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:43 PM

Who is saying Ryan won? Are you high?


I've heard people on both sides say their man did well, as a matter of fact.

Who's saying this was Obama/Romney? Are you high?

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#1153 Clak

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:46 PM

Assuming Obama wins again I really hope he develops a backbone this time around. I mean it's not like he'd have anything to lose at that point. Unless he's the type who gives a damn about legacy.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#1154 dohdough

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:07 PM

I've heard people on both sides say their man did well, as a matter of fact.

Who's saying this was Obama/Romney? Are you high?

Uhhh...nobody?

#1155 camoor

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:13 PM

Uhhh...nobody?


Yeah I think he is high (the name should have tipped me off) :lol:

Krakhead - lmk the news figure / pundit who says that Ryan won, that he increased Romney's chances for a win with his performance.

Besides Obama's my choice but I'll admit he didn't do well in his debate against Romney. So no, all people do not just blindly get behind their candidate and claim he won no matter what, reasonable people assess each situation on it's own merits. Romney is a douche though, you have that one right.

#1156 dafoomie

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:14 PM

Listen dafoomie, there is a finite amount of corn in this world to be popped and only so much room in my belly...

Maybe you could afford more corn without that ethanol mandate.

I stand by my remarks. To say that a tax hike would "only" impact 2% of small businesses is deceptive as that 2% is responsible for 53% of small business income and more than 50% of small business jobs. Most of what they are calling small businesses are people making a little money on the side on top of their day jobs, such as the people with eBay income the IRS is cracking down on now. Many of those businesses in that 2% are already going to be hit hard by the Obamacare employer mandate.

If you want to talk about tax fairness, the rich currently paying a lower effective rate than regular people, is that not what Romney's tax plan addresses by eliminating the deductions and credits for the rich that enable it?

#1157 Clak

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:25 PM

That isn't all that enables Romney to pay less taxes.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#1158 dopa345

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:32 PM

That isn't all that enables Romney to pay less taxes.


True. The fact that he donates almost a third of his income to charity also accounts for his lower tax rate.

#1159 dohdough

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:33 PM

Maybe you could afford more corn without that ethanol mandate.

I stand by my remarks. To say that a tax hike would "only" impact 2% of small businesses is deceptive as that 2% is responsible for 53% of small business income and more than 50% of small business jobs. Most of what they are calling small businesses are people making a little money on the side on top of their day jobs, such as the people with eBay income the IRS is cracking down on now. Many of those businesses in that 2% are already going to be hit hard by the Obamacare employer mandate.

If you want to talk about tax fairness, the rich currently paying a lower effective rate than regular people, is that not what Romney's tax plan addresses by eliminating the deductions and credits for the rich that enable it?

You know, there's actually a formal definition of what a small business is in the eyes of the government. I'm guessing that's what nasum was hinting at, but you just waffled the holy hell out of.

#1160 Clak

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:40 PM

True. The fact that he donates almost a third of his income to charity also accounts for his lower tax rate.

I'd just like to point out to Knoell that this is why we mock some of you. You all act a lot dumber than you really are, and it's aggravating.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#1161 dohdough

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:42 PM

True. The fact that he donates almost a third of his income to charity also accounts for his lower tax rate.

LOLZ...you mean tithing? I also didn't realize that taxes were considered "charity." You're not a very good libertarian, are you?:rofl:

#1162 UncleBob

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:19 PM

You know, there's actually a formal definition of what a small business is in the eyes of the government. I'm guessing that's what nasum was hinting at, but you just waffled the holy hell out of.


Hay guise... this phrase has a formal definition and it is important that we use it and nothing else. Because we care about things like formal definitions and such here. Hold them in the highest regards, yes sir-ee.
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#1163 dohdough

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:32 PM

Hay guise... this phrase has a formal definition and it is important that we use it and nothing else. Because we care about things like formal definitions and such here. Hold them in the highest regards, yes sir-ee.

As someone that claimed to have tutored statistics, you should know the difference between quantitative and qualitative. Considering that the conversation is about actual taxes, a quantitative subject, and it's relation to small businesses, another quantitative qualifier for the purpose of taxation, your analogy is completely inaccurate. We're talking about actual tax policy; not sociology.

Stick your head back up your ass where it belongs.

#1164 UncleBob

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:40 AM

I know, I know, not the same, right? Now explain why...yeah that's it...now we say you're full of shit as usual...ok we're done.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#1165 dafoomie

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:19 AM

You know, there's actually a formal definition of what a small business is in the eyes of the government. I'm guessing that's what nasum was hinting at, but you just waffled the holy hell out of.

If he'd like to cite a formal definition that refutes anything I said he's free to do so.

#1166 dohdough

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 03:16 AM

I know, I know, not the same, right? Now explain why...yeah that's it...now we say you're full of shit as usual...ok we're done.

Back to kindergarten argumenation I see...

#1167 UncleBob

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:07 AM

I've caught the sound bites where Biden blames the Republicans for the debt because of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan while claiming he voted against them... Awesome.

http://www.examiner....s-during-debate

I wish someone would ask him if we couldn't afford that then, why in the sam hell he thinks we can afford all the bloated, expanded military spending now...
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#1168 chiwii

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:47 AM

Did Biden say that he voted "against them" or did he say something about voting against funding the wars with our credit card?

#1169 VipFREAK

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:30 AM

Saw the debate, Ryan was so great he made me think Biden should be Pres. Ryan's ending speech was so true and ironically hilarious...

Liza... Bean... ? Really... ?

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#1170 Knoell

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:01 AM


If you want to talk about tax fairness, the rich currently paying a lower effective rate than regular people, is that not what Romney's tax plan addresses by eliminating the deductions and credits for the rich that enable it?


This depends on who in the rich you are talking about. The group of people this forum considers the "rich" do sometimes pay a higher effective rate than the "superrich" yes, however what the people in this forum consider the "middle class" do not pay higher effective rates than either the "rich" or the "superrich". Do not let them browbeat you into believing either categories of "rich people" pay less than "regular" people.

I'd just like to point out to Knoell that this is why we mock some of you. You all act a lot dumber than you really are, and it's aggravating.


I am not privy to this whole election thread. What was dumb about Romney donating to charity? Is this the whole "the charities he donates to aren't worthy of my approval" gotcha moment or the "he only donates to charity so that he doesn't have to pay taxes" deal?

Edited by Knoell, 13 October 2012 - 09:14 AM.