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2012 Election Thread


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#1171 Msut77

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:26 AM

Fuck me. That's a lot of unnecessary quote marks.

#1172 Clak

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:20 PM

Back to kindergarten argumenation I see...

He can't even come up with his own material, he's like denis leary to my bill hicks.
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#1173 UncleBob

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:32 PM

Did Biden say that he voted "against them" or did he say something about voting against funding the wars with our credit card?


[Had a Youtube link of the actual reply here, but dang, it royally messed up the entire thread... Biden's BS is even too much for VS. :D - S0TSvwv8X4 is the video ID]

"I was there, I voted against them." Sounds pretty clear to me. And Biden also said "But I always say what I mean.", so he didn't misspeak. :D

Seriously though, IF that is what he meant (voting for not funding the wars), I'm not sure that's any better. If you're going to vote to support a military action, you've got to realize that it's going to be a costly endeavor. If you don't realize that, I don't want you in any kind of position of power.

And I love Biden's next line about the Republicans being concerned about the debt they created - like that's a bad thing. Not that I really believe that the Republicans who are in power actually care - but Biden's comment just shows so much disconnect.
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#1174 chiwii

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:40 PM

[Had a Youtube link of the actual reply here, but dang, it royally messed up the entire thread... Biden's BS is even too much for VS. :D - S0TSvwv8X4 is the video ID]

"I was there, I voted against them." Sounds pretty clear to me. And Biden also said "But I always say what I mean.", so he didn't misspeak. :D

Seriously though, IF that is what he meant (voting for not funding the wars), I'm not sure that's any better. If you're going to vote to support a military action, you've got to realize that it's going to be a costly endeavor. If you don't realize that, I don't want you in any kind of position of power.

And I love Biden's next line about the Republicans being concerned about the debt they created - like that's a bad thing. Not that I really believe that the Republicans who are in power actually care - but Biden's comment just shows so much disconnect.


While Biden's statement could have been more clear, I think his meaning was obvious. Here's the full quote:

“By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, ‘Oh my goodness, where did it come from?’” Biden said. “It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy. I was there, I voted against them,” Biden continued. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.”

Biden never said that he didn't want the wars to be funded, he specifically said that he didn't want them paid for with the credit card. He wanted the wars and the prescription drug benefit to be paid for in the budget, not to be excluded from the budget and added to the debt. He did not want revenue to be cut while the government needed to pay for two wars and a new prescription drug plan. Do you really disagree with him?

#1175 UncleBob

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:46 PM

Biden never said that he didn't want the wars to be funded, he specifically said that he didn't want them paid for with the credit card. He wanted the wars and the prescription drug benefit to be paid for in the budget, not to be excluded from the budget and added to the debt. He did not want revenue to be cut while the government needed to pay for two wars and a new prescription drug plan. Do you really disagree with him?


I disagree with him in that he voted for the wars in the first place.

But more to your point, including the wars "in the budget" doesn't help when "the budget" is in the red. "I want these two costly wars, but I want you to come up with some way of paying for everything at once." Doesn't pass the smell test.
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#1176 Cage017

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:10 PM

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#1177 nasum

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:17 PM

Sorta like when Romney is pro-choice before he's pro-life before he's anti-choice but after he's pro-choice although still not pushing any abortion agenda if he's elected while being pro-life?


dafoomie - Running ebay on the side IS NOT a small business. There is no legal filing for "hey, this is my ebay cash from selling that camera I bought three years ago to take pictures of yer mom". What you sort of elude to as "the IRS is cracking down on that" actually isn't the IRS, it's your local state sales tax people. This has nothing to do with income tax. This isn't limited to eBay either. Any online trading marketplace for consumers (Amazon, half.com and many others that I don't care about) is a target for such things. Here's the problem: there is no definition for what level of sale of personal property constitutes a business. Ergo, there is no need for (using a very simple and all encompassing term here) "vendor status". At a farmer's market, you're paying a booth fee but no sales taxes (well at least in MN since we don't have sales tax on real food) and the owner of the market pays taxes on the income from the booth fees.

At any rate, you didn't just waffle on that answer, you fucking IHOPped to the point where you own three franchise restaurants now. You throw a bunch of %'s out there making it sound like some scientific fact (that usually doesn't work out very well by the way) yet you fail to even begin to answer the question.

And your obamacare taxes dig is complete BS since the upper 2% of small businesses would offer health insurance anyway, thus avoiding a tax, OR they're small enough to (less than 25 FTE employees) qualify for $0 and 0% taxes due to their size (because you know, stifling growth and upward mobility and all that...).

Also, finite means limited supply, not limited availability to pay for it.
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#1178 Thekrakrabbit

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:38 PM

*sigh* These threads are pretty boring to be in. Arguments, arguments. Just go to the polls and make your vote, then come and complain when the "wrong" guy wins.

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#1179 chiwii

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:20 PM

dafoomie - Running ebay on the side IS NOT a small business. There is no legal filing for "hey, this is my ebay cash from selling that camera I bought three years ago to take pictures of yer mom". What you sort of elude to as "the IRS is cracking down on that" actually isn't the IRS, it's your local state sales tax people. This has nothing to do with income tax. This isn't limited to eBay either. Any online trading marketplace for consumers (Amazon, half.com and many others that I don't care about) is a target for such things. Here's the problem: there is no definition for what level of sale of personal property constitutes a business. Ergo, there is no need for (using a very simple and all encompassing term here) "vendor status". At a farmer's market, you're paying a booth fee but no sales taxes (well at least in MN since we don't have sales tax on real food) and the owner of the market pays taxes on the income from the booth fees.


Dafoomie is right about the IRS cracking down on people who sell on ebay, amazon, etc. (probably even farmer's markets, if they take credit cards). It has nothing to do with the states and sales tax. If a seller meets certain sales criteria (something like 20k in gross sales and 200 transactions), ebay has to file a 1099-k for that seller.

Edited by chiwii, 13 October 2012 - 07:38 PM.


#1180 nasum

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:23 PM

http://www.inquisitr...litical-colors/

Well I'm convinced.


Romney and his campaign certainly have the cash if they want to be placed search results with Yahoo/Google/MSFT (Bing)/Ask Jeeves/Alta Vista/etc... This isn't a liberal media conspiracy, this is just another example of GOP technological luddites blaming instead of learning. Sound familiar?
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#1181 nasum

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:01 PM

Dafoomie is right about the IRS cracking down on people who sell on ebay, amazon, etc. (probably even farmer's markets, if they take credit cards). It has nothing to do with the states and sales tax. If a seller meets certain sales criteria (something like 20k in gross sales and 200 transactions), ebay has to file a 1099-k for that seller.


IRS form XYZ = Tacksez!!!
A 1099-K is an informational form for credit card transactions (3rd party payment systems, kind of a key part)
A 1099 only needs to be filed if one single individual receives a payment over $650 (another key part)

I won't get into the minutiae of this because heads will spin and eyes will glaze over. Here's a very simple version of what the "eBay 1099-K" actually means:
You accept a lot of paypal (3rd party payment), paypal pays the credit card company, charges you a fee and has to report that fee as earnings. 1099-K is how they justify those payments/fees. The IRS (which needs 50k new agents but only for Obamacare :eyeroll:) assumes $x in fee based transactions will occur. See last sentence.

So 1099-K as an individual:
Oh Fuck! Tackzezz!?!!!2@@
Nope. 1099 is informational, not a statement of earnings. As an individual you'll do a schedule C based on "potential" earnings from the 1099K but then write off the paypal/shipping/listing/etc... fees as loss of income and then reduce that by cost of goods sold.

If you really are a small business (www.americanguitarbotique.com for instance) that does a large amount of transactions on eBay, then you're doing all of that filing anyway as part of your revenue reporting.

tl:dr
1099-K for eBay is a scare tactic.
So if anyone is very active in selling on eBay and the like, share your story of 200 sales or roughly $100 each went for you!
Back to my original point, this is federal govt helping local govt find revenue in the form of sales tax to reduce the local aid to the states from the fed govt.
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#1182 dafoomie

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 02:59 AM

None of this rambling nonsense has anything to do with what I said.

#1183 Knoell

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 04:35 AM

None of this rambling nonsense has anything to do with what I said.


It really doesn't. I haven't read anything that refutes your claim. But as usual they will give you their evidence when you stop contradicting what they believe.


Stick your head back up your ass where it belongs.



Back to kindergarten argumenation I see...


:applause: You showed him....only act like a kindergartner after you believe you made a good point!

Edited by Knoell, 14 October 2012 - 04:47 AM.


#1184 Feeding the Abscess

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:17 AM

http://www.guardian....tions-suffering

if "terrorism" means the use of violence aimed at civilians in order to induce political change from their government, what is it called when intense economic suffering is imposed on a civilian population in order to induce political change from their government?


I'm so glad we have vastly competing worldviews in the two viable presidential candidates.
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#1185 nasum

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:51 PM

None of this rambling nonsense has anything to do with what I said.


Oh? So you bring up how the IRS is going after non-small business small businesses with 1099-K as your foundation for that, I dispel that and it has nothing to do with what you're talking about. Okie dokie.
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#1186 cancerman1120

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:42 PM

http://www.jsonline....-174121401.html

I hate to show another piece of evidence that my great State of Wisconsin continues to fall away from its once proud progressive tradition.

Video of Jason Thompson (son of former WI governor, Secretary of Health and Human Services and current Rep. candidate for Senate Tommy Thompson) at a fundraiser talking about sending President Obama back to "Kenya".

Edited by cancerman1120, 15 October 2012 - 11:32 PM.
Forgot to mention it was Tommy


#1187 Clak

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:24 PM

I have to say that this election has brought out more ignorance and hate than I have ever seen before in an election. And yes, much of it is due to racism. You all can cover your ears and eyes and hum all you want, it's there, deal with it.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#1188 dohdough

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:45 PM

I have to say that this election has brought out more ignorance and hate than I have ever seen before in an election. And yes, much of it is due to racism. You all can cover your ears and eyes and hum all you want, it's there, deal with it.

More than the last one? I dunno man...

#1189 Clak

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:08 AM

It may be a tie with the last one. But in some ways it feels like that last election never ended .
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#1190 EdRyder

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:19 AM

I cant figure Wisconsin out. I lived in Milwaukee from 99 to just about 01. I dont know what the hell happened there. Did all those hippies move away?
That state goes red this year and I'm turning in my didgeridoo.

#1191 cancerman1120

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:12 AM

I cant figure Wisconsin out. I lived in Milwaukee from 99 to just about 01. I dont know what the hell happened there. Did all those hippies move away?
That state goes red this year and I'm turning in my didgeridoo.


I was born here and went to College in Milwaukee. I graduated in 97 and moved away for grad school/post-doc/job till 2010. I am amazed at how this state has turned. Even at a pretty conservative Jesuit University (Marquette) there was plenty of Liberal leaning people to associate with. I think they all moved back to Illinois. It is pretty funny driving around the well to do neighborhoods around here. Signs saying Romney + Ryan = Recovery. Dude you have 3 cars and a speedboat in front of your house. seems to me the people doing ok have no idea whether the recovery was weak or not.

#1192 62t

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:24 AM

http://www.washingto...tchen-photo-op/

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#1193 Knoell

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:17 AM

http://www.washingto...tchen-photo-op/


I will pull the meaningful points out for you, because just skimming the first few paragraphs, the owner or author really describes a vicious Ryan campaign forcing their way in for a photo op. Which wasn't what it was at all.

According to a Romney aide not authorized to speak publicly about the event, the campaign followed its usual protocol for impromptu, on-the-road stops by candidates: A staffer was dispatched to the St. Vincent De Paul Society ahead of Ryan’s visit Saturday morning and spoke with a woman in charge on site, who said that it would be fine for the congressman to stop by. The campaign did not contact Antal ahead of the visit.
The woman on site told the Romney staffer that some of the volunteers had already left, but that most were happy to remain until Ryan arrived, according to the aide. After Ryan left the soup kitchen, the woman approached a campaign staffer and expressed gratitude for Ryan’s visit, the aide said.
Chris Maloney, Ohio communications director for the Romney campaign, said that the visit by Ryan had been intended to highlight the work of the soup kitchen volunteers.
“Our campaign and Congressman Ryan were pleased to bring attention to the meaningful charitable contributions the St. Vincent De Paul Society makes to people in need,” Maloney said.
Antal, a self-described independent voter, said that he “can’t fault my volunteers” for letting the campaign in but said that the campaign “didn’t go through the proper channels.”
He noted that the soup kitchen relies on funding from private individuals who might reconsider their support if it appears that the charity is favoring one political candidate over another.
“I can’t afford to lose funding from these private individuals,” he said. “If this was the Democrats, I’d have the same exact problem.”


The campaign knew people had already left, and they may have been only attempting to get a photo op, but there is no harm or no foul.

Sounds like the owner just doesn't like political candidates.

#1194 mykevermin

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:44 AM

Sounds like the owner just doesn't like political candidates.


More likely than not, as a charity, they scrape by with donations, constantly begging and soliciting to keep things running. Now that a candidate has shown up for 15 minutes of opportunism, they will have a harder time soliciting donations from people who dislike that candidate. Those people would have given without question or controversy before that; now, they have to rationalize giving money to a place that "endorsed" the wrong candidate.
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#1195 Clak

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:13 PM

Yep, so in simple turns, Ryan made things harder for the charity to solicit funding.

Or in even simpler turns for some of our posters, Ryan do bad thing to charity.

edit- Dammit knoel you're a moron, plain and simple.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#1196 dopa345

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:13 PM

I have to say that this election has brought out more ignorance and hate than I have ever seen before in an election. And yes, much of it is due to racism. You all can cover your ears and eyes and hum all you want, it's there, deal with it.


I agree. The fact that 99% of a specific ethnic group is voting for the candidate of the same race despite ha actively pursuing policies against their interests remains troubling.

#1197 nasum

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:59 PM

WI is similar to most midwestern states where the rural areas lean ® as well as a couple of middle ring suburbs. Anywhere that has a college (you know, where people learn) tends to lean more (D) and of course urban (geographic dohdough, no implications) areas tend to lean (D) as well because you have more people in one area. People who live next to each other tend to know each other and somewhat care for each other whereas the folks out in the hills are scared of everything.
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#1198 detectiveconan16

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:52 PM

I'm worried about the debate tonight, how can we deem a moderator that says she won't be a "fly on the wall" to be unbiased? Doesn't that just add fuel to the complaining fire?

Whatever, I just wanna see the custerfuck that'll fly in the aftermath anyway.

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#1199 VipFREAK

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:20 PM

Ryan was the star for me, it's all down hill now...

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#1200 Clak

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:34 PM

I don't know if anyone has seen this.

http://www.romneytaxplan.com/

Clever.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift