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#91 camoor

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:44 PM

And what you stated is fine. But all your rights and freedoms come with personal responsibility. We do alot of things for pleasure and enjoyment that can lead to serious consequences. Having a child is among the most serious. Like I said you choose sex as an activity for recreation doesn't mean now all of a sudden you don't share in the risks and responsibility of your actions (unwanted pregnancy, STD's). And while pro-choice I believe abortion used as birth control is reprehensible. And I repeat this you have 100 choices to make before you have sex. As long as you have sex you will risk unwanted pregnancy and you will also risk getting a women pregnant that might change her view on weather to have the child or not. Something you have no control over. Like i tell my son what you want might be different than what you get.


The Palin family is the best example why abstinence is full of it.

#92 Clak

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:53 PM

That is actually where I draw the line. If you end up creating a life, you have an obligation to be involved in it's life and help raise it, there are enough absent fathers in the country. Just sending a monthly check isn't enough.
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#93 Commander0Zero

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:57 PM

The Palin family is the best example why abstinence is full of it.


What? Abstinence isn't full of anything. Its full proof. Reality is most people will have sex before marriage or any kind of commitment for that matter. So all the precautions need to be taken before having sex to avoid unwated pregancy and STD's. My point is all the education in the world about the risky behavior doesn't beat simply not involving yourself in the risky behavior. Your dislike of the Palins doesn't mean they are wrong in putting forth abstinence to avoid just the situations Bristol finds herself in now. As a parent your kids aren't going to follow you lock step they need to make their own choices that they will live with. You can only give the best information you can. My issue is with folks that want to preach abstinence and nothing else. They aren't living in reality.
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#94 dmaul1114

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:58 PM

That is actually where I draw the line. If you end up creating a life, you have an obligation to be involved in it's life and help raise it, there are enough absent fathers in the country. Just sending a monthly check isn't enough.


I generally agree. And it's highly unlikely that the case he mentioned would happen when you're only dating women who say they 100% don't want kids and understand you're of the same mind. There should be an understanding there that keeping an accidental pregnancy isn't an option.

Best you can do when you don't want kids is to stick to that when deciding who to date (i.e. don't end up with someone who wants kids, or may want kids, just because they're hot and everything else fits), and take precautions by using birth control properly. Though I'll definitely go the extra mile and get a vasectomy, and hopefully in the near future, to ensure I never end up in that situation.

#95 speedracer

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:59 PM

And while pro-choice I believe abortion used as birth control is reprehensible.

That's done roughly never by anyone.
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#96 dmaul1114

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:59 PM

Your dislike of the Palins doesn't mean they are wrong in putting forth abstinence to avoid just the situations Bristol finds herself in now. As a parent your kids aren't going to follow you lock step they need to make their own choices that they will live with. You can only give the best information you can. My issue is with folks that want to preach abstinence and nothing else. They aren't living in reality.


That was the point. Palin is abstinence only and probably didn't educate her children about birth control much if at all. If she had, then Bristol likely wouldn't have gotten knocked up.

#97 Commander0Zero

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:01 PM

That is actually where I draw the line. If you end up creating a life, you have an obligation to be involved in it's life and help raise it, there are enough absent fathers in the country. Just sending a monthly check isn't enough.


I agree with this 1000%. The involvement is worth more than the money. Fathers are needed. If you have a kid you are needed. I've been there not wanting to have a kid(s) and it's tough to give up so much. But hopefully if it ever happens to anyone the will be active in the child's life.
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#98 Commander0Zero

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:02 PM

That was the point. Palin is abstinence only and probably didn't educate her children about birth control much if at all. If she had, then Bristol likely wouldn't have gotten knocked up.


I stand corrected then. :D
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#99 Clak

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:47 PM

And if ever there was a family that needed birth control, it's the Palins.
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#100 camoor

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:20 PM

What? Abstinence isn't full of anything. Its full proof. Reality is most people will have sex before marriage or any kind of commitment for that matter. So all the precautions need to be taken before having sex to avoid unwated pregancy and STD's. My point is all the education in the world about the risky behavior doesn't beat simply not involving yourself in the risky behavior. Your dislike of the Palins doesn't mean they are wrong in putting forth abstinence to avoid just the situations Bristol finds herself in now. As a parent your kids aren't going to follow you lock step they need to make their own choices that they will live with. You can only give the best information you can. My issue is with folks that want to preach abstinence and nothing else. They aren't living in reality.


The phrase is not full proof, it's fool proof.

And obviously abstinence is not fool proof, because if it were then Palin's foolish daughter would have kept her legs shut.

#101 camoor

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:22 PM

And if ever there was a family that needed birth control, it's the Palins.


Nah - at least they can afford it. My nomination would either be Octomom or that guy in the south who has more then 20 kids with different women.

#102 dmaul1114

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:26 PM

And obviously abstinence is not fool proof, because if it were then Palin's foolish daughter would have kept her legs shut.


He said he didn't think abstinence only was a realistic idea.

He was just saying that not having sex is the only way to be 100% sure to not have an unwanted pregnancy or get an STD. And he's right that it's the only fool proof way to 100% avoid those things as birth control can fail, a vasectomy or tube tying can be botched etc. and you can never know with 100% confidence that your partner isn't cheating on you and risking STD exposure.

But it's pretty much moot as not having sex at all just isn't a viable option for most people who don't want kids. So there's really no practical fool proof way to be sure you'll never knock someone up/get knocked up. But you can make the chances pretty damn slim with proper use of birth control, and even slimmer with vasectomy/tube tying. So there's seldom accidental pregnancies that result when one is taking the appropriate cautions. They tend to happen when one gets lazy with birth control, or gets drunk and doesn't use a condom or puts it on wrong and it breaks, or the female forgets to take her pills or take something else that interacts with them etc.

#103 Clak

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 08:25 PM

Nah - at least they can afford it. My nomination would either be Octomom or that guy in the south who has more then 20 kids with different women.

I wasn't really basing it on quantity.;)
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#104 dohdough

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 08:25 PM

And what you stated is fine. But all your rights and freedoms come with personal responsibility. We do alot of things for pleasure and enjoyment that can lead to serious consequences. Having a child is among the most serious. Like I said you choose sex as an activity for recreation doesn't mean now all of a sudden you don't share in the risks and responsibility of your actions (unwanted pregnancy, STD's). And while pro-choice I believe abortion used as birth control is reprehensible. And I repeat this you have 100 choices to make before you have sex. As long as you have sex you will risk unwanted pregnancy and you will also risk getting a women pregnant that might change her view on weather to have the child or not. Something you have no control over. Like i tell my son what you want might be different than what you get.

Hey, smart guy, terminating a pregnancy IS the ultimate act of personal responsibility. Ok, maybe that's hyperbolic, but is still IS an act of personal responsibility. Anyone can have a kid and pawn it off to society and knowing your limits is a big part of being responsible. Deciding to end it knowing that there's no way one can or would want to take care of a child is a pretty big step no matter how quickly one would come to that conclusion.

And LOLZ@abortion as brith control:roll:

#105 RealDeals

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:05 PM

Hey, smart guy, terminating a pregnancy IS the ultimate act of personal responsibility. Ok, maybe that's hyperbolic, but is still IS an act of personal responsibility. Anyone can have a kid and pawn it off to society and knowing your limits is a big part of being responsible. Deciding to end it knowing that there's no way one can or would want to take care of a child is a pretty big step no matter how quickly one would come to that conclusion.

And LOLZ@abortion as brith control:roll:


Wow, I can sincerely say you made me think of the whole topic a different way. My belief is (perhaps used to be? :lol:), in cases of rape or danger to the mother, I'm all for abortion. Beyond that, there are SO many precautions you can take the chance of unwanted pregnancy is miniscule. Either be safe or keep em' crossed. You gave me something to think about, thanks DD.
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#106 Commander0Zero

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:12 PM

Hey, smart guy, terminating a pregnancy IS the ultimate act of personal responsibility. Ok, maybe that's hyperbolic, but is still IS an act of personal responsibility. Anyone can have a kid and pawn it off to society and knowing your limits is a big part of being responsible. Deciding to end it knowing that there's no way one can or would want to take care of a child is a pretty big step no matter how quickly one would come to that conclusion.

And LOLZ@abortion as brith control:roll:


The personal responsibility would be not to get pregnant if you know you don't want or can't handle/afford a child. At the point an abortion is wanted all other decision making has failed and the choice to abort is completely self serving. If you can't handle the consequences of an act then don't do it. Like was mentioned above there are many ways to avoid an unwanted pregnancy but the only one full proof way is to not have sex or only have sex with your own sex. Human life means something so does the process that creates it. We don't have unfettered abortions in this country which shows pro-choice/pro-life the process of bringing a life into this world means something and shouldn't be terminated lightly. And as far as abortion as birth control personal opinion but when there are women who have had 2 or 3 abortions what would you call it?
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#107 Clak

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:21 PM

But once a woman has become pregnant, the issue of responsibility in that regard is in the past. Now she has to decide if having it or aborting it is the most responsible thing to do, and if she can't take care of the child, what do you think the responsible thing is? Have it and let the state raise it? That's responsible?
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#108 soulvengeance

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:29 PM

The personal responsibility would be not to get pregnant if you know you don't want or can't handle/afford a child. At the point an abortion is wanted all other decision making has failed and the choice to abort is completely self serving. If you can't handle the consequences of an act then don't do it. Like was mentioned above there are many ways to avoid an unwanted pregnancy but the only one full proof way is to not have sex or only have sex with your own sex. Human life means something so does the process that creates it. We don't have unfettered abortions in this country which shows pro-choice/pro-life the process of bringing a life into this world means something and shouldn't be terminated lightly. And as far as abortion as birth control personal opinion but when there are women who have had 2 or 3 abortions what would you call it?


So when the kid grows up screwed up because they didn't care, what do we do then? Blaming the parents is great, but it doesn't really solve the problem at that point, where an abortion would have. Doh, basically saying the same thing as Clak.:)
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#109 Commander0Zero

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:43 PM

So when the kid grows up screwed up because they didn't care, what do we do then? Blaming the parents is great, but it doesn't really solve the problem at that point, where an abortion would have. Doh, basically saying the same thing as Clak.:)


So irresponsible people make a self-serving decision and it is mistaken as some sort of act of responsibility. Look obviously there are two different schools of thought here. I don't agree with one but I will agree it is a personal decision.


And as a side note.
Make the adoption process easier for ANY loving family to adopt.
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#110 soulvengeance

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:48 PM

So irresponsible people make a self-serving decision and it is mistaken as some sort of act of responsibility. Look obviously there are two different schools of thought here. I don't agree with one but I will agree it is a personal decision.


And as a side note.
Make the adoption process easier for ANY loving family to adopt.


Well, I'm not saying it's a courageous decision or anything like that, but yes, it's still a responsible decision even if it is self-serving. I somewhat agree with making adoption easier, I think the real problem is that the original birth parents just still have a lot of rights even though they give up the child, and that makes people hesitant to adopt in the U.S.
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Calls this what you may, but I would say that Blacks actually benefited from the slavery. Comparing the current lives of many African Americans to Africans, one can see that the former live in much better conditions with greater freedoms and opportunities.


#111 dohdough

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:48 PM

The personal responsibility would be not to get pregnant if you know you don't want or can't handle/afford a child. At the point an abortion is wanted all other decision making has failed and the choice to abort is completely self serving.

So what if it's self-serving for the individual? Everything's self-serving. Does it mean that more resources are used up because of it? Of course not because that would be dumb as there would be one less person in the town/city/state/country/world.

Isn't having kids self-serving as well? How many individuals have the ability to be completely self-sufficient without outside help? Absolutely none. Are you donating sperm or your wife donating eggs? Get the Fuck outta here with that moralistic "self-serving" bullshit.

Personal responsibility doesn't start or end with deciding to put on a condom or taking pills or deciding not to Fuck; it shifts with context and there is no line drawn. People aren't robots and it's beyond ridiculous to expect people to act perfectly rational especially when it comes to sex. That's even dumber than thinking having an abortion is bad simply because it's self-serving.

If you can't handle the consequences of an act then don't do it. Like was mentioned above there are many ways to avoid an unwanted pregnancy but the only one full proof way is to not have sex or only have sex with your own sex. Human life means something so does the process that creates it.

Human life doesn't mean shit in this world. If it did, we, as a society would take better care of eachother.

We don't have unfettered abortions in this country which shows pro-choice/pro-life the process of bringing a life into this world means something and shouldn't be terminated lightly.

What the Fuck makes you think it's taken lightly? Countless women have died because of cultural taboos and bans on abortion. Even now, do you think that someone walks into a clinic and walks out with an abortion willy nilly? Maybe you should go volunteer at a clinic and get yourself some fucking empathy because an abortion isn't a goddamned oil change, so stop talking about it like it is.

And as far as abortion as birth control personal opinion but when there are women who have had 2 or 3 abortions what would you call it?

Taking personal responsibility for one's actions, motherfucker. Can you handle it?

#112 Clak

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:59 PM

The adoption process is long and hard BECAUSE they want to make sure the people adopting are right for the child. Make it easier (meaning less checking of the couple) and more kids will end up with parents that shouldn't have them. There are enough kids without parents not just in this country, but all over the world. I have seen first hand kids being controlled by adults in what is basically organized crime, and it's heart breaking. Too many kids, not enough parents, it's best that people have fewer kids by whatever means necessary, even if that means aborting them before they're born. It isn't responsible to bring a kid into the world when you can't take care of them. Of course I wish people would think about that beforehand, but to put it simply, better late than never.
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#113 Commander0Zero

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:09 PM

So what if it's self-serving for the individual? Everything's self-serving. Does it mean that more resources are used up because of it? Of course not because that would be dumb as there would be one less person in the town/city/state/country/world.

Isn't having kids self-serving as well? How many individuals have the ability to be completely self-sufficient without outside help? Absolutely none. Are you donating sperm or your wife donating eggs? Get the Fuck outta here with that moralistic "self-serving" bullshit.

Personal responsibility doesn't start or end with deciding to put on a condom or taking pills or deciding not to Fuck; it shifts with context and there is no line drawn. People aren't robots and it's beyond ridiculous to expect people to act perfectly rational especially when it comes to sex. That's even dumber than thinking having an abortion is bad simply because it's self-serving.


Human life doesn't mean shit in this world. If it did, we, as a society would take better care of eachother.


What the Fuck makes you think it's taken lightly? Countless women have died because of cultural taboos and bans on abortion. Even now, do you think that someone walks into a clinic and walks out with an abortion willy nilly? Maybe you should go volunteer at a clinic and get yourself some fucking empathy because an abortion isn't a goddamned oil change, so stop talking about it like it is.


Taking personal responsibility for one's actions, motherfucker. Can you handle it?


Why you like to pick fights is beyond me and you using the word empathy is interesting to say the least. You rattled off a bunch of opinions I rattled off a bunch of opinions. But you decide you like to insult people. I have empathy I didn't say that the decision was taken lightly in fact I stated we have boundaries on abortion so as a society weather pro-choice/pro-life we believe it is serious. The mothers pay for that decision emotionally never said otherwise.Having kids is anything but self-serving. You have any idea how much time effort and money it takes to raise just one child? Nobody is talking about a ban on abortion either so maybe you're just free-styling there. Plain and simple I'm pro-choice so I'm not trying to tell people how to live.
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#114 dohdough

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:20 PM

Why you like to pick fights is beyond me and you using the word empathy is interesting to say the least.

Why do you find it interesting? Because I'm extending the same empathy as you are with extending people that choose to have abortions?

You rattled off a bunch of opinions I rattled off a bunch of opinions. But you decide you like to insult people.

It really pisses me off when people use epistemological arguments like this.

NO. Opinions are NOT equal and if you're going to spout one, then you should be prepared to have it disseminated and test the veracity and application of it.

If I'm insulting, it's because you insult my intelligence with superficial arguments using nebulous language.

I have empathy I didn't say that the decision was taken lightly in fact I stated we have boundaries on abortion so as a society weather pro-choice/pro-life we believe it is serious. The mothers pay for that decision emotionally never said otherwise.

First off, it's spelled w-h-ether. And secondly, the only reason why we have restrictions on abortions is because PEOPLE WANT TO BAN IT. We shouldn't have any restrictions on it beyond a standard disclaimer and waiver like any other surgical procedure.

Having kids is anything but self-serving. You have any idea how much time effort and money it takes to raise just one child?

I do and I already addressed it and made a point about it in a previous post, which you ignored. While you talk about "the sacrifice," you're talking about what YOU do for YOUR child; not anyone else's, all while you expect others to sacrifice for yours too as that's simply part of living in our society.

Nobody is talking about a ban on abortion either so maybe you're just free-styling there. Plain and simple I'm pro-choice so I'm not trying to tell people how to live.

Are we not discussing politicians talking about banning abortions with you using the similar rhetoric?

Of course you're not telling people how to live explicitly, just implicitly with the blame game. Like this:

Look I'm pro-choice but if women would make better choices they wouldn't be in a situation to have to decide to terminate a pregnancy.

Yeah, let's totally absolve all the men of all responsibility here.:roll:

Again, if all human life was so goddamned precious and special, we'd have the social safety nets to allow women to keep their children without having to merely subsist just because they had a child. Abortion is only a problem because people want to ban it, but it has far reaching systemic effects that go unaddressed with merely adding restrictions upon it. You'd be doing yourself a service if you thought about that.

tl;dr: Shit simply isn't as simple as you're making it out to be. Ignore everything else if you want, but pay attention to that statement.

#115 Spokker

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:40 PM

Actually, the privilege women have is that they get the government assistance when they have a kid. Men are typically barred from assistance. Here's a good article from Brookings about this.

http://www.brookings...welfare-haskins

Men generally do not qualify for cash welfare, child care, or Medicaid, and they qualify for an EITC that is worth only a tenth as much as the mothers' EITC. The only major benefit for which they qualify is food stamps—to go along with continual pressure from child support and, for many, incarceration.

I don't agree with everything in this article, but it is clear that men are shut out of welfare in favor of women. Men are hunted like dogs for child support, but single mothers are treated with kid gloves.

So women can opt out of their parental responsibilities through adoption or abortion (in my state you can surrender your child within 72 hours of birth no questions asked), which is fine, but men cannot. On top of that, if they cannot earn enough to pay the child support, they can have their already meager wages garnished or be sent to jail. I think that abortion should be legal in the first three months after conception, and men should be able to absolve themselves of responsibility within that three months as well. If that were legal, you would see a hell of a lot more women close their legs and/or take their birth control correctly.

#116 dohdough

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:01 AM

Actually, the privilege women have is that they get the government assistance when they have a kid. Men are typically barred from assistance. Here's a good article from Brookings about this.

http://www.brookings...welfare-haskins


I don't agree with everything in this article, but it is clear that men are shut out of welfare in favor of women. Men are hunted like dogs for child support, but single mothers are treated with kid gloves.

Yeah, that's nice and all, but you failed to mention that the mothers overwhelmingly have primary custody of any children. Not to mention that any welfare that a mother with custody qualifies for, a father would as well because the money isn't for the parents, but for the children.

Welfare doesn't work the way you think it does and hasn't since long before Clinton put a 5 year lifetime cap on welfare for adults. Just stop talking about welfare at all because you've shown time and time again that you have absolutely no clue about how it works.

So women can opt out of their parental responsibilities through adoption or abortion (in my state you can surrender your child within 72 hours of birth no questions asked), which is fine, but men cannot. On top of that, if they cannot earn enough to pay the child support, they can have their already meager wages garnished or be sent to jail. I think that abortion should be legal in the first three months after conception, and men should be able to absolve themselves of responsibility within that three months as well. If that were legal, you would see a hell of a lot more women close their legs and/or take their birth control correctly.

Yeah...cause it's ALWAYS about women being sluts.:roll:

Oh, and no shit you don't agree with most of the article because in your opinion, black people are just a bunch of lazy motherfuckers looking for handouts and 100% responsible for all of their problems because Black Culture.

#117 UncleBob

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 04:22 AM

Okay - for those who don't think a fetus is a life (which includes me), why, exactly is an abortion bad?

A fetus is just a lump of cells - why is it different than clipping off a toenail?
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#118 Sarang01

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 04:51 AM

The vast majority of sex people have is for pleasure, not reproduction. It's one of the few pleasures in life. I 100% never want to have kids, but still have lots of sex and always will as long as physically able. Birth control unfortunately isn't 100% effective, so abortions are always going to be needed for the rare cases where if fails even when used properly.

One thing they should change is making it easier to get vasectomies at younger ages. Lots of doctors refuse to do them on younger males. Something like that should never be up to a doctor.

So anyway, I fully get the distinction Sarang was making. No one likes abortions, but they're necessary in some cases IMO as no one who didn't want to have a child should be forced to carry it to term. At the same time, there's no excuse for people who don't want children to not use birth control and take every precaution they can to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Abstinence is an unrealistic option. Unless someone is fucked up physically and just has no sex drive, it's just not reasonable to expect someone who never wants kids to refrain from sex entirely just because of the possibilities of birth control etc. not working. Though again such people should get vasectomies, tubes tied etc. and doctors should do them on any adult who requests them.


One thing I find a bit offensive is it's always expected of the male to get a vasectomy but never the other side with the female. I know someone related to me who got the vasectomy but the partner didn't. Jeez talk about fucking ridiculous.
Oh and I really hope you do have kids. We need people like you to have kids to offset the idiots. Remember the beginning of "Idiocracy"? You're a college professor for crying out loud! Please have a kid.
edit: Dohdough, speaking of mothers having primary custody I find it a bit ridiculous the leeway that can get them in certain states especially when compared to the absolute shit a male would get in the same situation. I would even add when a male has stepped up to the plate for his kids.
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#119 chiwii

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:58 AM

One thing I find a bit offensive is it's always expected of the male to get a vasectomy but never the other side with the female. I know someone related to me who got the vasectomy but the partner didn't. Jeez talk about fucking ridiculous.


A vasectomy is a minor procedure, while a tubal ligation is major surgery. The recovery time for a tubal ligation is longer, and the risk of complications is higher.

So, unless the male has a medical issue that would make a vasectomy riskier than normal, it just makes sense for a couple to choose a vasectomy over a tubal ligation.

#120 kodave

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 10:23 AM

Okay - for those who don't think a fetus is a life (which includes me), why, exactly is an abortion bad?

A fetus is just a lump of cells - why is it different than clipping off a toenail?


Ugh I clicked the wrong forum and unfortunately decided to browse this thread, but c'mon, the answer to your question is obvious: A toenail is a lump of keratin. A fetus is a lump of cells that has the potential to be birthed and function on its own as an independent organism, whether or not you think life begins once the fetus is birthed or some point before that or at conception or at jerking off.

Dumbing it down to that kind of level of questioning is just feigning ignorance of what sexual production of mammals is about. You might not count it as a "life," but at X number of weeks (don't remember off the top of my head, I think its roughly around 3 months?) you could theoretically remove it from the mother and it will be developed enough to survive prematurely (with a lot of assistance from modern medical science). Then that "lump of cells" is suddenly a life, with the only difference being that it is outside a womb rather than in it.

That's why its simplest, legally speaking, if the fetus is pre-viability it can be aborted with ease. After viability is reached you have to think about things and the mother's decision not make up her mind in those X number of weeks. Yeah, there are a lot of social and societal strains on the decision at that point, but at the same time, you've already committed to letting offspring grow in your stomach to the point of viability, which should count for something (putting aside instances of rape and harm to the mother). What that counts for is obviously open for heavy debate and there are so many different considerations to be had and possibly balanced.

I think it would help tremendously if as a nation/society we changed our attitudes about sex and contraception though and stopped making everything so taboo and "wrong." It's time to hit teenagers hard with the realities of sex and biology. Abstinence only doesn't cut it. But information about contraception is half assing it without lessons in responsibility. It's time to teach about personal responsibility, not only about sex but about life in general (because it seems like many Americans would benefit from learning about something like, say, budgeting - especially the consequences of budgeting whether its going to be for a family or for finding the money for an abortion.) Of course all of this requires heavy education reform, which is up shit creek itself. And that education reform also heavily ties into our failing criminal justice system for certain segments of society. Not to mention how marred our education system is by political bickering. Plus religious beliefs are somehow finding a way to edge out science and reason in the 21st century.

And as far as birth control goes, it's time for the FDA and Congress to stop screwing around with Big Pharma and to start approving tests for things like the reversible injection that is long term birth control for men. (Big Pharma wants to develop pills because if you're popping pills every day you're giving them more money than you would for a one time procedure.) People fear STDs would rise rapidly, which I think they probably would, but that's why you also teach about personal responsibility and wrapping your dick even if barrier-birth-control isn't in play. The kind of birth control that is possible for men would just be another layer of protection. You can read more about it here.

If we could become more socially responsible and intelligent as a society, maybe we could cut off a lot of the behavior that ends up in situations where someone is pondering abortion in the first place. It will never be full proof or perfect but I think it might go a long way. It of course feels like it would be impossible to reach given all of the shit that lies between reaching it.