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#121 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:00 PM

One thing I find a bit offensive is it's always expected of the male to get a vasectomy but never the other side with the female. I know someone related to me who got the vasectomy but the partner didn't. Jeez talk about fucking ridiculous.


No ridiculous at all. As noted above, a vasectomy a minor outpatient procedure, where as tube tying is pretty major surgery with a much longer recovery time. So it's pretty shitty of guys who don't want to have kids to not get one and ask their partner to have their tubes tied. And no need for both people to get it done, just wastefully health spending.

Oh and I really hope you do have kids. We need people like you to have kids to offset the idiots. Remember the beginning of "Idiocracy"? You're a college professor for crying out loud! Please have a kid.


Stupid logic as the kid wouldn't get great parenting. I only date career driven women. So even if I did want a kid it would be in day care as soon as it was old enough, summer camps etc. as neither myself or the people I date have time for being active parents.


And as far as birth control goes, it's time for the FDA and Congress to stop screwing around with Big Pharma and to start approving tests for things like the reversible injection that is long term birth control for men. (Big Pharma wants to develop pills because if you're popping pills every day you're giving them more money than you would for a one time procedure.) People fear STDs would rise rapidly, which I think they probably would, but that's why you also teach about personal responsibility and wrapping your dick even if barrier-birth-control isn't in play. The kind of birth control that is possible for men would just be another layer of protection. You can read more about it here.


I definitely agree with that. We need more forms of male birth control than just condoms. Too much of the burden is placed on women currently since most couples in committed relationships aren't using condoms--so the onus is on the women to hassle with the pill.

#122 Clak

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:17 PM

Male birth control
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

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#123 UncleBob

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:17 PM

You might not count it as a "life," but at X number of weeks (don't remember off the top of my head, I think its roughly around 3 months?) you could theoretically remove it from the mother and it will be developed enough to survive prematurely (with a lot of assistance from modern medical science). Then that "lump of cells" is suddenly a life, with the only difference being that it is outside a womb rather than in it.


I *think* the record is 20 weeks (a little short of five months), though most doctors aim for 24 weeks (roughly 5 1/2 months) at a minimum.

But here's the thing, it's either a life or it isn't a life. I'm not going to claim to be an expert on what that cut off point is, but once you have decided it is a life (i.e. is the same as a baby outside the womb) you're a disgusting monster if you can justify killing a baby (again, short of extreme medical cases).

If it's not a life, then it's not a life and it shouldn't matter at all. It's a lumpy mass of cells that you're having removed on an outpatient procedure.

I don't feel there's a gray area here. Now, I do feel there's a bit of a gray area defining *when* it becomes a life - and that's a totally different debate. But whatever you decide in your mind, if it's "not a life", then I see no reason you should have any kind of negative thoughts towards someone who has the mass removed. If it's a life, then that life should be protected against those who wish to do it harm - and if you decide it's okay to terminate what you consider to be a life (one that is absolutely unable to defend themselves) because of circumstances completely outside the control of that individual - well, you're a horrible person.
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#124 Feeding the Abscess

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 06:22 PM

Evictionism, which is based on property rights. Problem solved. I'll even assume the baby, at conception, is a full-fledged human being, with all the rights that entails. Not giving the baby air/food/shelter is not murder (if people don't have the right to force others to take care of it, logically, neither does the baby), and evictionism wouldn't chop the baby up in the womb or kill it with chemicals before removal, allowing a chance for artificial means of keeping it alive. Technology in this field will advance, eventually lowering the time at which babies could be kept alive.

Everyone wins.

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#125 Sarang01

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 04:12 AM

I'm totally against male birth control made in THIS day and age. You'll note I don't say in the past but I would never pop a male pill created by the Big Pharma of this day and age as I believe that would either create one that would deliberately have side effects. If they didn't then they'd ditch the no side effects one for one that does. I don't trust these people(the CEO's) nowadays. Most are complete scum.
You can trust when the pill was made for female birth control. Yes it has side effects but you never hear about it having some truly absurd things and it can even be good for women with acne or who have an irregular period.
Somehow I doubt that male birth control would be similar.
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#126 Temporaryscars

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 04:17 AM

I don't know what grosses me out more. The comment that he made, or the fact that since making the comment, people have started upping personal donations to his campaign. Yeesh.



#127 cancerman1120

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:23 AM

Well now Rape and Out of Wedlock Kids are the same thing. This just shows that these pro-lifers just do not like women having sex for fun. It is really disturbing.

Also, make sure you watch the guy in the background. He has that WTF? look on his face when the batshit stuff starts flying.



#128 Temporaryscars

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:43 AM

Lol at the OH SHIT look on that guy's face. I would simply ask these guys if they supported the war, and after answering yes, I'd present them with statistics of the number of children who died due to the war and then ask his thoughts on that.



#129 4thHorseman

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:15 PM

http://www.examiner....fore-conception

New law in Arizona changing when to have an abortion. Felt it worked well in this topic.

#130 mykevermin

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 01:41 PM

Make no mistake - Todd Akin and Tom Smith's statements are poorly made, but the ideas they articulate (which are the truly frightening and astonishing parts) are *indeed* the GOP party line.
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#131 itachiitachi

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 01:44 PM

Evictionism, which is based on property rights. Problem solved. I'll even assume the baby, at conception, is a full-fledged human being, with all the rights that entails. Not giving the baby air/food/shelter is not murder (if people don't have the right to force others to take care of it, logically, neither does the baby).

I'm pretty sure not giving a baby food, shelter or air is called chilled abuse, and if a baby died through such actions you would be probably be charged with something akin to manslaughter, if not murder.

Forgive me if I have a little nuance to my worldview, and am not a black/white ideologue who can't grasp complexity.

 

This is perhaps the most ironic thing I have ever seen on CAG.

 

#132 Clak

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 02:04 PM

Chilled abuse? That's just cold. ;)
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

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#133 yourlefthand

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 02:55 PM

Make no mistake - Todd Akin and Tom Smith's statements are poorly made, but the ideas they articulate (which are the truly frightening and astonishing parts) are *indeed* the GOP party line.


Just to be clear, what are the ideas that you believe they articulate? From my relatively conservative background, I see a couple of jackasses who communicate very poorly and don't really think like me. I wouldn't vote for either of them.

#134 mykevermin

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 03:00 PM

Just to be clear, what are the ideas that you believe they articulate? From my relatively conservative background, I see a couple of jackasses who communicate very poorly and don't really think like me. I wouldn't vote for either of them.


Both believe in making abortion in any and every circumstance illegal.

The gop platform (partially quoted, as it's not released yet b/c it has to be formally adopted at the convention first - processes, processes):

http://thecaucus.blo...party-platform/

While Republican officials stressed that the plank did not go into granular details, saying that they were better left to the states, the language of the plank seems to leave little room for exceptions to the abortion ban. It states that “the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed.”

“Faithful to the ‘self-evident’ truths enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed,” said the draft platform language approved Tuesday, which was first reported by CNN. “We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children.”


No exceptions = the extension of 'personhood' concepts and 14th amendment rights to fetuses = Akin and Smith's viewpoints in more careful language.
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#135 Temporaryscars

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:11 PM

I'm not really surprised. These are the same types of morons whose favorite book (the bible) says the best punishment for rapists is to force their rape victims into marrying them.

There seems to be a pattern of low regard for victims of rape.



#136 mykevermin

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 10:14 PM

There seems to be a pattern of low regard for victims of rape.


I suggest this with as much seriousness as Swift's "Modest Proposal" (i.e., I'm making a point and don't really want to see this happen):

Since men who commit rape now would have legal dominion over women's bodies by being able to select a victim, impregnate them against their will, force them to carry that child to term and deliver it (in addition to legal potential for custodial rights):

(not to mention all of these ideas/laws being proposed by men in the first place, mind)

it would only be completely fair turnabout if Barbara Boxer and Nancy Pelosi (or any Congresswomen, but these two are the most maligned by the right such that this is the most appropriate selection) sponsored legislation that would mandate the removal of testes and penis for any males convicted of sex-related offenses.

(I don't limit it to "rape," since that would only lead to prosecutors and judges electing to reduce charges so as to prevent that punishment from occurring. Also for maximum outrage factor, which ought to drive the point home that much more.)

...yeah, yeah, we got that whole 8th amendment thing, but seeing as how the psychological and physical trauma of being forced to carry a rape baby to term is being proposed by one side in the name of "personhood," I'm sure we can come up with some clever means of circumventing the constitution just as they have done.
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#137 Temporaryscars

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 10:49 PM

I can't tell if that's the best idea ever or the worst idea ever. It could go either way. :lol:



#138 IRHari

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:17 AM

Both believe in making abortion in any and every circumstance illegal.

The gop platform (partially quoted, as it's not released yet b/c it has to be formally adopted at the convention first - processes, processes):

http://thecaucus.blo...party-platform/



No exceptions = the extension of 'personhood' concepts and 14th amendment rights to fetuses = Akin and Smith's viewpoints in more careful language.


Yeah I was surprised at the condemnation Akin got about 'legitimate' rape, but then I realized they were condemning his batshit 'legitimate rape doesnt result in pregnancy' line. See: Akin & Ryan's 'forcible rape' language.
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#139 yourlefthand

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:36 PM

Both believe in making abortion in any and every circumstance illegal.

The gop platform (partially quoted, as it's not released yet b/c it has to be formally adopted at the convention first - processes, processes):

http://thecaucus.blo...party-platform/



No exceptions = the extension of 'personhood' concepts and 14th amendment rights to fetuses = Akin and Smith's viewpoints in more careful language.


It's worth noting that that language did not make it into the platform.

Don't get me wrong, there's still plenty to not like in the platform, but the abortion language was softened a bit.


My personal view is that each abortion is a tragedy. I think it's foolish to try to make it completely illegal, both as a matter of pragmatism and due to the issues it raises in rape, incest, and health of the mother cases. Because of this view, I would prefer to emphasize better education, reasonable access to contraception, and better care for mothers and babies in order to reduce the cases where people view abortion as their only choice.

#140 Clak

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:43 PM

So you prefer the opposite of what the republican party wants then.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#141 yourlefthand

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:49 PM

So you prefer the opposite of what the republican party wants then.


Not exactly. I'm somewhere in between the views of the "instant human" Republicans and the "worthless parasitic mass of cells" Democrats.

The idea of banning abortion completely doesn't make sense to me, but Biden giving the thumbs up to China's one child policy seems terrible also.

#142 mykevermin

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:56 PM

It's worth noting that that language did not make it into the platform.


Hmm. I'll look into that, then. The version I saw was on scribd, and I didnt want to create an account just to download that.
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#143 yourlefthand

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:03 PM

Hmm. I'll look into that, then. The version I saw was on scribd, and I didnt want to create an account just to download that.


I was surprised, but I actually spent time on GOP.com to see for myself.

#144 Clak

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:15 PM

Not exactly. I'm somewhere in between the views of the "instant human" Republicans and the "worthless parasitic mass of cells" Democrats.

The idea of banning abortion completely doesn't make sense to me, but Biden giving the thumbs up to China's one child policy seems terrible also.

No offense, but from what you posted before, you pretty much do. Doesn't mean you agree with anyone else, but your stance is pretty much the opposite of the republican party's, not that that's a bad thing.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#145 mykevermin

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:31 PM

I was surprised, but I actually spent time on GOP.com to see for myself.


Location saved so others who are interested can save some time: http://www.gop.com/w...GOPPlatform.pdf
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#146 Clak

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:35 PM

Location saved so others who are interested can save some time: http://www.gop.com/w...GOPPlatform.pdf

The second fucking paragraph and they're already bullshitting people.

The pursuit of opportunity has defined America
from our very beginning. This is a land of opportunity.
The American Dream is a dream of equal opportunity
for all. And the Republican Party is the
party of opportunity.

Bullshit.:roll:
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#147 chiwii

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:52 PM

I'm totally against male birth control made in THIS day and age. You'll note I don't say in the past but I would never pop a male pill created by the Big Pharma of this day and age as I believe that would either create one that would deliberately have side effects. If they didn't then they'd ditch the no side effects one for one that does. I don't trust these people(the CEO's) nowadays. Most are complete scum.
You can trust when the pill was made for female birth control. Yes it has side effects but you never hear about it having some truly absurd things and it can even be good for women with acne or who have an irregular period.
Somehow I doubt that male birth control would be similar.


You think that the CEOs of large pharma company tell the scientists to intentionally develop medications with side effects? Side effects are probably ignored or downplayed in the pharma industry, but intentinally causing side effects? I doubt that.

Fyi - there isn't one "pill." There are many methods of hormonal birth control, some of which were developed fairly recently. And, there are some truly absurb side effects associated with any hormonal birth control for women, such as blood clots, which can cause death.

#148 nixmahn

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:54 PM

Well now Rape and Out of Wedlock Kids are the same thing. This just shows that these pro-lifers just do not like women having sex for fun. It is really disturbing.

Also, make sure you watch the guy in the background. He has that WTF? look on his face when the batshit stuff starts flying.


Lol at the OH SHIT look on that guy's face. I would simply ask these guys if they supported the war, and after answering yes, I'd present them with statistics of the number of children who died due to the war and then ask his thoughts on that.


Who is that guy? Was he a suppoerter or worked for him or something? He did 3 things.

1. He was like "OH SHIT"
2. Looked and him as was saying "Are you shitting me"
3. Looked down/sideways as like he was hiding from the camera, "oh Fuck, I need to find a better line of work"


I'm not really surprised. These are the same types of morons whose favorite book (the bible) says the best punishment for rapists is to force their rape victims into marrying them.

There seems to be a pattern of low regard for victims of rape.


If you look at the video, he regards any women having sex out of wedlock is rape. By your conclusion, he pretty much thinks any woman with premarital sex in low regard.

#149 mykevermin

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:01 PM

I think it looks like Chris Hayes: http://www.msnbc.msn...s/#.UD5m7ER9lNM

EDIT: On second thought, nah. He wouldn't be at a presser like this for a state race.
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#150 mykevermin

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 03:12 AM

It's worth noting that that language did not make it into the platform.


http://www.cheapassg...8&postcount=235

(trying to move election discussion to the election thread.)
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