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Direct Democracy 2012


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#1 Spokker

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:57 AM

Are there any propositions in your state that are interesting? CA has a bunch. I've just started reading through my voter information guide.

We have competing tax increase proposals. They basically follow the same pattern, raise taxes or education suffers. Never mind that we have thrown gobs of money at education and performance has only stagnated. I'm undecided about Jerry Brown's proposal but voting no on the others.

Our legislature is so incompetent that we are now voting on whether to institute a two-year budget cycle. California can't handle annual budgets now. I'm undecided on this. I think the two-year budget cycle is wacky but I think some of the other provisions, like offsets for expenditure increases, are good. There's also supposed to be more transparency in the budget process.

We might also end the death penalty, which I will be voting yes on.

The last interesting one to non-Californians (I think they are all interesting, though) is the repeal of the three strikes law, which I will be voting yes on. It's not that I'm not tough on crime, but I do want that power to be in the hands of judges and not mandatory sentencing (third strike and go away for life). Judges should have discretion.

I tend to think these are more important than the national elections because the initiative process can really Fuck up a state. People here tend to vote no on taxes but vote yes on expensive shit.

Anything good from your state? I know some are voting on marijuana this year.

Here's all my California first impressions so far. If you are also in California, use this template to post how you are planning to vote on them so far. And post your own for other states using Ballotpedia.

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#2 speedracer

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:51 AM

I've lived in 8 states and I've never seen anything used and abused like California's prop system. Others do it, just not as often and on such big questions. Just an observation.

Strong no on 35 and 37?
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#3 irideabike

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:22 PM

I like the way you vote. Two year budgets are no different then one year budgets in terms of govt. Both will spend way more money than they bring in.

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#4 nasum

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:31 PM

just whether or not the gays can marry (which is a moot point as a constitutional amendment as state law already prevents this) and if you have to have an ID for voting. The ID thing is weird because I've always shown my ID when voting. From the age of 21 until this became an issue in the last election (after franken/coleman) I didn't even know it wasn't required. I'm still a no for both (no requirement for ID and no constitutional amendment banning gay marriage) but it just seems like a bunch of silliness to me.
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#5 dmaul1114

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:36 PM

We just have two state constitution amendments, and I need to read up more on both.

One is to allow state to open more charter schools--need to read up, but lean no.

Other is to allow state to enter multi-year rental agreements (for government agencies) so save money by locking in lower rates--seems like a yes there as that makes sense. Will read up to make sure I'm not missing something though.

#6 PottyPops

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:54 PM

We have competing tax increase proposals. They basically follow the same pattern, raise taxes or education suffers. Never mind that we have thrown gobs of money at education and performance has only stagnated. I'm undecided about Jerry Brown's proposal but voting no on the others.

Idk how different CA is from WV when it comes to education, but the main problem I see with education today is how outdated it is. Our education system was developed in the 1920's and 1930's. Technology has changed so drastically that kids have adapted to a different style of learning than a normal classroom and chalkboard setting. Multitasking was practically unheard of then and kids today multitask fluently. The thought processes of kids today are more more advanced. I think the whole public education system needs revamped from the ground up. The "No Kid Left Behind" Act put a huge hurt on it, and basically just shoves uneducated kids on through to more difficult classes and they fall further and further behind.

#7 Knoell

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:51 PM

I've lived in 8 states and I've never seen anything used and abused like California's prop system. Others do it, just not as often and on such big questions. Just an observation.

Strong no on 35 and 37?

I thought the same thing about 35 when I saw that.

I looked it up on his link, and it has some privacy aspects to it that he might disagree with.

However I am curious though Spokker,

What part of Prop 35 are you a strong no for?

#8 Spokker

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:48 AM

Strong no on 35 and 37?

I think this is another one of those cases where we expect the state to spend more money doing more things, and yet we have a budget that is pretty much dysfunctional. California should get its budget in order before saving everyone. In the past I voted no on stem cell funding and children's hospitals. They still pass, though, so don't mind me. Even my votes on the death penalty and three strikes is based more on fiscal concerns than humanitarian concerns.

And once we do get our budget in order, if ever, I still couldn't blindly support something like Prop 35 until prostitution is legalized. I think a lot of the problems we experience in this area is affected by that. I don't think this would eliminate sex trafficking of people who were forced into it, but it would help reduce pimping of people who voluntarily got into it, and then got stuck.

Also, I tend to think this is the legislature's job anyway. If there was a proposition to end the initiative process, I would vote yes on it.

Oh, and I forgot the best argument of all. Sex slavery is already illegal. All this asks us is to increase the punishment for it. I don't think voters have any business doing this because it is pretty certain to pass on emotional appeal alone with little public debate.

Edited by Spokker, 03 October 2012 - 01:15 AM.


#9 speedracer

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:42 PM

Fair enough. I guess I can agree with that. I read the position pieces attached to the bills by the supporters/opponents and found the 35 supporters surprisingly thin. It's definitely the kind of bill I went into thinking 100% support and then wondered why I couldn't be talked into supporting a "position" I already agreed with before even seeing the bill.
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#10 Dr Mario Kart

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:05 PM

Direct democracy is really the worst. So is states' rights. I'd trade the entire history of progressive movements at the state level for California prop 13.

#11 Feeding the Abscess

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 06:07 PM

The only Prop I'd consider voting for was 32, and that's an imperfect solution to that problem. The death penalty one would be a no-brainer if it also didn't add $100 million to police budgets.
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#12 Syntax Error

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 06:52 PM

Illinois has a proposal for a state constitutional amendment that would require a 3/5ths majority in the state legislature to raise any public pension benefits.

I voted against it because I feel it's a budgetary matter that should be determined by simple majority like the rest of the budget matters.

#13 Spokker

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:18 AM

Colorado's marijuana ballot measure was winning 52 to 48 with 25% in earlier.

#14 ROB64

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:00 AM

Colorado's marijuana ballot measure was winning 52 to 48 with 25% in earlier.


Awesome stuff. Washington has legalized it as well (with pretty much no doubt about the outcome, there's still a chance that CO doesn't pass it, but not very likely.)
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#15 eldergamer

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:30 AM

Yup. Should be able to light up and engage in a homosexual marriage in WA tomorrow.
Because both of those things were -so- on my agenda.

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