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CAGcast #301: Don't Be a Dick


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#61 thenexus6

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:46 PM

Great show as always. Would like to be entered for the Walking Dead code, my twitter user is @saunderscowie

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#62 boatack13

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 07:08 PM

Anyone else always laughing along with Wombat's pop culture/Simpsons references? Cheapy and Ship either aren't catching them or possibly ignoring them.


Cheapy has made quite a few Simpsons references. I get a kick out of them too!

#63 io

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:50 AM

Too much hype?

Am I the only one who had no idea what you guys were talking about with respect to some sort of "Polygon" web site? I still have no idea what it is after listening to you guys except that it is a place that reviews games and was supposedly over-hyped before it launched. But clearly that hype went right past me ;).

And Ship - I played the Borderlands 2 DLC when it first came out and I was probably only halfway through the main game. I got a TON of XP when I did that - gained several levels from all the DLC content (I did nearly all the side missions). But then I was well below level 35 at the time. I can say for sure that the enemies did scale to my level. But for some reason I seemed to get a lot more XP a lot faster than in the main game, where leveling is painfully slow (which is pretty much my only gripe with Borderlands 2).

Edited by io, 29 October 2012 - 08:07 AM.


#64 4thHorseman

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 02:03 PM

I laughed at the "Wanna guess which of the three of us have no kids?" comment Wombat made. As a newer dad, I finally understand why you guys don't get as much playtime. I'm at level 19 at Borderlands, and have had it since Day 1.

But with that, I have found a greater appreciation for handheld gaming having clocked about 30 hours into the new Pokemon. So much easier to get some playtime in on that than on consoles now it seems...

#65 BetaDemo

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:19 PM

Where's Bickle?

#66 danchilders

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:42 PM

So Lauren Wainwright had multiple conflicts of interests, tried to cover them all up when caught, threated a lawsuit and then bragged about it on twitter.

http://wosland.podga...wrightmedia.jpg

And you guys have the nerve to call the guy who she threatened a dick and just call her young and misguided? WTF, guys. I thought I respected you.

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#67 guardian_owl

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:52 PM

Because Green Arrow on Smallville was campy and awful like the rest of Smallville. I said, "Holy shit!" out loud when Green Arrow started killing bad guys in Arrow. The show takes itself mostly serious. It's the difference between Tim Burton Batman and Christopher Nolan Batman.

It got more serious and slightly darker as it got into later seasons, particularly in season 8 with the introduction of
Spoiler

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#68 Wombat

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:14 PM

So Lauren Wainwright had multiple conflicts of interests, tried to cover them all up when caught, threated a lawsuit and then bragged about it on twitter.

http://wosland.podga...wrightmedia.jpg

And you guys have the nerve to call the guy who she threatened a dick and just call her young and misguided? WTF, guys. I thought I respected you.

http://penny-arcade....s-why-this-stor


Please show me the specific conflicts of interest. Not what she might have done, or where she might have worked. A link showing what job she did for Square, and when she did it. Also show me a review that she did that may have questionable content. Not for a game that has an 89 on Metacritic and I named my GOTY.

I still fail to see what his point is?

#69 Horsewarrior of Janjaweed

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:39 PM

Rab's point was that when enthusiast press does nothing to distinguish itself from companies PR, when it indulges in whatever schemes they cook up (such as hashtag giveaways, or Doritos orgies), then it has no worth.

All this nonsense about Wainwright actually being on S-E's payroll (which is hilarious) came up afterwards.

As for whether or not her position influenced her opinion, that doesn't matter. It really doesn't. Deus Ex was a good game. It got good reviews. That hers happened to be one of them isn't a big deal. I'm sure some people will like the new Tomb Raider too. What matters is that she didn't feel obligated to excuse herself. Just like she had no idea what's wrong with professionals entering hashtag giveaways.

#70 Delusibeta

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:35 PM

Please show me the specific conflicts of interest. Not what she might have done, or where she might have worked. A link showing what job she did for Square, and when she did it. Also show me a review that she did that may have questionable content. Not for a game that has an 89 on Metacritic and I named my GOTY.

I still fail to see what his point is?

The point is that Rob wasn't being a dick in pointing out that a games journalist having a Twitter account design that is giving the official Tomb Raider account a run for its money in terms of number of Tomb Raider pictures while posting about being #obsessed by the game makes you look a bit unbaised. Here's the actual quote:

One games journalist, Lauren Wainwright, tweeted: "Urm… Trion were giving away PS3s to journalists at the GMAs. Not sure why that's a bad thing?"

Now, a few tweets earlier, she also tweeted this: "Lara header, two TR pix in the gallery and a very subtle TR background. #obsessed @tombraider pic.twitter.com/VOWDSavZ"

And instantly I am suspicious. I am suspicious of this journalist's apparent love for Tomb Raider. I am asking myself whether she's in the pocket of the Tomb Raider PR team. I'm sure she isn't, but the doubt is there. After all, she sees nothing wrong with journalists promoting a game to win a PS3, right?

The fact that the aforementioned games journalist then turned around and threatened to sue Eurogamer for libel over that, suggests to me that she is the dick you are looking for. Do also note that she is currently working full time on MCV and is The Sun's gaming correspondent, so I don't think inexperience can be used as an excuse.

Edited by Delusibeta, 29 October 2012 - 10:50 PM.


#71 M3wThr33

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:42 PM

Please show me the specific conflicts of interest. Not what she might have done, or where she might have worked. A link showing what job she did for Square, and when she did it. Also show me a review that she did that may have questionable content. Not for a game that has an 89 on Metacritic and I named my GOTY.

I still fail to see what his point is?


I'd give her a pass if she wasn't a LAW STUDENT that threatened legal action against those who might even challenge her integrity.

#72 Saren Arterius

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:44 PM

So she sued Eurogamer and caused the dismissal/resignation of Rab, lied and tried to remove incriminating evidence just based on a quote he used it as an example, only to protect her reputation (oh irony) and Ben just told the truth as an excellent article and who's the dick here?

I think it's pretty clear.

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#73 slickjones

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:03 PM

Please show me the specific conflicts of interest. Not what she might have done, or where she might have worked. A link showing what job she did for Square, and when she did it. Also show me a review that she did that may have questionable content. Not for a game that has an 89 on Metacritic and I named my GOTY.

I still fail to see what his point is?


She was never the focus of the article, just an example of the lack of integrity and standards when journalists think it's ok to promote a game to win a PS3. You'd never see Jeff Gerstmann or Justin McElroy do something like that. But when she made a fuss by threatening with legal action, she was thrown into the spotlight.

You're missing the point by thinking 'as long as she gave a good review to a good game, everything is fine.' It's about the lack of distinction between PR and actual criticism/journalism. Also, she misspells Jensen's name in that 'review'.

Anyone with nothing to hide wouldn't have:

  • Protected their Twitter account after the article was published
  • Threatened Eurogamer with legal action
  • Removed the entry about her working for Square Enix from her journalist industry profile site


It says a lot how when someone did some real journalism about the games industry, he's shot down and censored.

This post is also important: http://www.neogaf.co...&postcount=4360

#74 M3wThr33

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:42 PM

And remember, Polygon was started by the EIC of Kotaku. Yay Kotaku!

#75 Curufinwe

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:54 AM

Worth reading, although it's a bit heavier going that the very clearly written and understandable piece by Kuchera linked to above.

http://www.rpgcodex....ent.php?id=8579

Please show me the specific conflicts of interest. Not what she might have done, or where she might have worked. A link showing what job she did for Square, and when she did it. Also show me a review that she did that may have questionable content. Not for a game that has an 89 on Metacritic and I named my GOTY.


Doing consultancy work for Square-Enix and also reviewing and writing about Square-Enix games is a clear conflict of interest, even if we believe her claim that she never reviewed the games she consulted on.

http://i.imgur.com/V8wxW.jpg

But it's resorting to the cowardly accusation of libel that's going to haunt her for the rest of her career.

Edited by Curufinwe, 30 October 2012 - 01:39 AM.

Curufinwe5503.png? Curufinwe.jpg


#76 Kazaganthi

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:29 AM

http://i.imgur.com/V8wxW.jpg

But it's resorting to the cowardly accusation of libel that's going to haunt her for the rest of her career.


9.5/10 for Lara Croft: the Guardian of Light what? Not hating on Lara, but that's the DL only title that really wasn't too hot. Co-op was nice, I'd say 7/10 or 8/10 tops, my opinion. I don't know who Telegraph is, but they gave it a 100 on metacritic? While others are 40-75/100

Wombat can defend his argument, but I don't think the CAGcast crew can defend her anymore.

So she sued Eurogamer and caused the dismissal/resignation of Rab, lied and tried to remove incriminating evidence just based on a quote he used it as an example, only to protect her reputation (oh irony) and Ben just told the truth as an excellent article and who's the dick here?

I think it's pretty clear.

Think we ran into the same problem back when that girl got dissed a some Fighting Game Tournament. Opposite sexism, the male is always wrong, protect the female and give them more leniency.

Finally, to poke fun at Wombat because he likes it: If Wombat can see it was conflict of interest and she shouldn't have done it in the first place, then she has no excuse. I do not think calling her inexperienced is a defense, Cheapy.


#77 Gregalor

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:57 AM

Geoff Keighley wrote The Final Hours of Portal 2 and The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3, which is more actual journalism than Kotaku writes in a year.

#78 Dr Mario Kart

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:24 AM

X-Com has a reputation for being really hard. I would've figured Cheapy would've stayed away from it purely on that basis. Make sure your spread your saves around. I hear you can get stuck for real and have to start over.

#79 Nephlabobo

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:10 AM

Of *course* you guys would defend Lauren since you know her and almost had her write for the site. No conflict of interest at all, right guys? Nice to know that moral corruption exists on both sides of the Pacific. Pathetic.

#80 M3wThr33

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:37 PM

Scroll down to the comments.
http://nukezilla.com...er-controversy/

I think, nay, KNOW this girl knew EXACTLY what she was doing and is proud of it.

#81 triforcer

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:30 PM

I don't think that Eurogamer writer was a dick at all. He just called out something questionable and they threatened them with libel, that's the real dick move. You guys act like she's some naive little girl, give her some credit, she obviously follows the industry so she knows what's up.
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#82 Azazael13

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:32 PM

So lets keep defending the made up person. Eurogamer called someone out who turned out to be fake.

In a shocking turn of events, Square Enix has announced that Lauren Wainwright, a supposed video game journalist, is fictional and that her love of everything Square Enix was just a marketing ploy.

Recently, Eurogamer posted an article that condemned sponsorship in video game journalism and had briefly mentioned Wainwright. The article was eventually edited to remove her mention in the article. It sparked a firestorm that caused many to look for more information about Wainwright. A notable detail that was discovered is that she was once employed by Square Enix and has written extremely positive reviews about their games.

Today, a Square Enix representative has publicly admitted that Wainwright is not real and was created to promote Square Enix games. Robert Peeler, Square Enix community manager, responded to a series of posts on its forums asking about the employment of Wainwright.

I don’t think I have permission to post this, but I will do so anyway. Lauren is not a real person and is actually a character created by Square Enix’s marketing department. I deeply apologize for anyone who was swayed by her commentary or reviews.



Many were in disbelief by this revelation, but Peeler continued to explain, “In the Eurogamer article, they mention she tweeted the following: ‘Urm… Trion were giving away PS3s to journalists at the GMAs. Not sure why that’s a bad thing?’. This was marketing’s way of convincing people that this was not bribery, but just something innocuous. In the marketing circles of many video game companies, they watch each other’s backs.”

“Her love of everything Tomb Raider, as evidenced by her Twitter account, was the real reason she was created,” Peeler explains, “Square Enix knew that Tomb Raider was dead and had to find a way to promote hype for the series again. Her love of Tomb Raider is not genuine and the actress who played her was coached on what to do say when going out to conventions and other public events.”

At this point, the thread was deleted by Square Enix and they have not officially commented on the situation. Robert Florence, the author behind the original Eurogamer article, has said on Twitter, “I knew it! Fuck Square. They haven’t made a good game since they merged.”


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#83 Cao Cao

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 08:39 PM

So lets keep defending the made up person. Eurogamer called someone out who turned out to be fake.



http://p4r.buzzleberry.com/?p=319


You do realize that's a spoof news site, right? You know, like The Onion? And if you do know that, why are you bothering to pollute the conversation by posting it as fact?

Edited by Cao Cao, 30 October 2012 - 09:12 PM.


#84 Gregalor

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:00 PM

You do realize that's a spoof news site, right? You know, like The Onion? And if you do know that, why are you bothering to pollute the conversation by posting it as fact?


To be fair, I got fooled this morning, too, because who the hell is familiar with p4r.buzzleberry.com??

#85 Nephlabobo

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:28 AM

http://www.eurogamer...ty-18-aftermath

"a lot of people want to know more about why I made the changes and issued an apology. The answer is that Lauren Wainwright threatened us with legal action and made it clear she would not back down, at which point we took legal advice and ultimately made the decision to remove the paragraphs."


So. This woman got caught with her hand in the cookie jar, got exposed and used legal action to get it covered up. If that's not the definition of scumbag, I don't know what its.

Wombat and Cheapy were *so* quick to jump in and white knight her because she's a "poor, innocent girl" (oh and because Cheapy has met her), yet she cost someone their job to hide her dirty laundry.

Wombat's written for UGO. He should have *some* sense of journalistic integrity, but in this day and age I guess it's too much to ask. Maybe the next question is what kind of freebies has Wombat taken while writing about games?

It's unbelievable to me that not a single person is coming out and saying "Florence didn't deserve to be fired". He didn't. He wrote a story, which he corroborated with evidence, and got thrown under the bus for it.

Here's a suggestion for the next Cagcast title:

"Don't be an unethical corporate shill who uses legal threats to get people fired".

Or, if you want to do the flipside of "Don't be a dick":

"Don't be a cunt".


It's too bad that Shipwreck is the only one that seems to have any kind of a moral compass in this. Cheapy and Wombat come off as white knighting, unethical scumbags.

#86 Azazael13

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:10 AM

You do realize that's a spoof news site, right? You know, like The Onion? And if you do know that, why are you bothering to pollute the conversation by posting it as fact?


To be fair I was tricked when I first saw it, then got a good laugh. Maybe if more people read it they will laugh and the whole thing can go away. Also because that is about the only way this would end nicely. How many people white knighting for her are doing it because she is a girl? If no one on the Cagcast had met her and she was a random internet dude would all of this have happened the way it did?

Nephlabobo has it right, she cost a GOOD (he had a decent story and facts) journalist his job.

#87 Wombat

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 02:25 PM

I will make this brief and I am still dealing with hurricane stuff. I will admit that I was probably a bit too much on her side, but I still fail to see the point of these kinds of articles.
A bad journalist will eventually stop getting hired and will eventually fade away. No one needs to write a piece pointing that out. Writing an article about how bad a colleague is, does not make you a better journalist. You can do that by writing better, non-biased articles.
So in hindsight, I will say that no one is right in this situation.

#88 Bohh

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 02:37 PM

I would like to be entered in this weeks contest for TWD, please. I have followed you on Twitter, Wombat. My twitter name is @westachio

Thanks!

#89 Nephlabobo

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 03:46 PM

I will admit that I was probably a bit too much on her side, but I still fail to see the point of these kinds of articles


And therein lies the problem.

A bad journalist will eventually stop getting hired and will eventually fade away. No one needs to write a piece pointing that out.



In news reporting maybe, but in video games? No, you'll either get a job where you can be a PR mouthpiece or simply get a job in PR itself.

Writing an article about how bad a colleague is, does not make you a better journalist. You can do that by writing better, non-biased articles.



Wait - are you seriously calling Florence biased because he pointed out a conflict of interest?

After reading that, I feel like I need a shower.

#90 Backlash

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 03:55 PM

Scroll down to the comments.
http://nukezilla.com...er-controversy/

I think, nay, KNOW this girl knew EXACTLY what she was doing and is proud of it.


I will make this brief and I am still dealing with hurricane stuff. I will admit that I was probably a bit too much on her side, but I still fail to see the point of these kinds of articles.
A bad journalist will eventually stop getting hired and will eventually fade away. No one needs to write a piece pointing that out. Writing an article about how bad a colleague is, does not make you a better journalist. You can do that by writing better, non-biased articles.
So in hindsight, I will say that no one is right in this situation.


Wombat sighting! Glad you seem to have gotten through the hurricane ok.