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The Fiscal Cliff


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#91 irideabike

irideabike

Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:03 PM

Why don't you just guess the amount of things you buy online and just write in your assumed tax based off your guess?
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#92 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:19 PM

Why don't you just guess the amount of things you buy online and just write in your assumed tax based off your guess?


Same reason no one here cuts extra checks to the government via Pay.gov.

It's easy to talk about wanting to give the government extra money. Not so easy to actually do it.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#93 Clak

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:37 PM

See, this is why I chuckle every time bob says he isn't republican. He is, but he's in deep denial about it. I mean the guy says things that are straight from the party line, but he isn't republican.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

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#94 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:38 PM

If I'm going to give the government extra money they need to take it automatically and everyone in my income bracket and doing the same amount of online shopping needs to be getting hit with the same share. My doing it alone does no good, the system has to change so everyone is chipping in more for it to make a difference, and you can't put that burden on tax payers and expect people to accurately report and pay.

Guessing would be very imprecise anyway since I buy nearly everything but groceries online these days, and it's impossible to keep straight which places are charging tax and which aren't etc. They need to make a standard online sales tax rate the feds collect and distribute to the states to automate things.

#95 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:50 PM

Basically, "I am not willing to put forth the extra effort required to show that I actually believe what I say when I say that I'm willing to pay more in taxes."
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#96 irideabike

irideabike

Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:02 PM

ya, that was kind of a pathetic response. If paying more is that big of a deal for you, and you have the time and extra money to do it just do it and stop talking about wanting to do it. It is almost as annoying as buffet rambling on and on about wanting to pay more taxes but the government isn't giving him a higher rate so he just keeps paying the same rate rather than paying more toward a cause he seems to believe in.
There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

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#97 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:13 PM

"I want to go down to the soup kitchen to help feed the homeless, but it's just sooo cold outside and I'd have to wait for my car to warm up."
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#98 EdRyder

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:33 PM

Whatever. How many people in this thread purposely don't take deductions that they otherwise could have (not against the rules)


I'm going to answer : Everyone that isnt rich???

Is it really hard to believe? See this is what I'm talking about when I say the rich dont even file taxes the same way the rest of us do. They'll deduct everything they can in the hopes that they'll fall into a different bracket. Whereas us normal people cant do that. We dont want too many deductions because then it'll look like we earned less money when we apply for home loans or car loans.

#99 irideabike

irideabike

Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:36 PM

wait what? I'm by no means rich (I'm not poor, I'd consider myself solidly in the middle class) but when I file my families taxes I take every deduction that is humanly possible. I wouldn't for one second consider implications for a home or auto loan when I file taxes.
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#100 EdRyder

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:48 PM

You're a weirdo? ( Just the fact that you wrote "wait what?" like it was news to you..I dont know how else to respond to that) :-P
Dont get me wrong , I'd love to do that. But it isnt going to help me in the long run , it'll only hinder me.

#101 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:54 PM

I've seen plenty of ads for tax preparation services that promise to get you the biggest refund.

I've never seen an ad that promises to make sure your tax filings don't interfere with your ability to get a home or auto loan.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#102 camoor

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:59 PM

If paying more is that big of a deal for you, and you have the time and extra money to do it just do it and stop talking about wanting to do it. It is almost as annoying as buffet rambling on and on about wanting to pay more taxes but the government isn't giving him a higher rate so he just keeps paying the same rate rather than paying more toward a cause he seems to believe in.


Asking people to do the right thing doesn't cut it.

Say one man does pay extra based on what he thinks he should. Heck, say it's Warren Buffet. It still isn't going to mean a hill of beans until every American gets on board with the new plan and starts paying their fair share.

We don't need your hippie-tastic nice ideas, we need policy with teeth.

#103 irideabike

irideabike

Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:02 PM

Paying taxes is not a moral obligation, there is no "do the right thing" when it comes to taxes.

And if you want fair share institute a consumption based tax system.

#104 EdRyder

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:02 PM

I've seen plenty of ads for tax preparation services that promise to get you the biggest refund.

I've never seen an ad that promises to make sure your tax filings don't interfere with your ability to get a home or auto loan.


So H&R Block doesn't have your best interest(or the Governments best interest for that matter) at heart?
Must be why they let people file ridiculous tax claims and sit back and say "Its the IRS's problem"
So strange.....

Edit: You know their whole money making model is based off of your refund right?
Never stopped and thought why there was a Tax Preparer in Wal Mart around Christmas? (Refund anticipation loans)

Edited by EdRyder, 30 November 2012 - 06:14 PM.


#105 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:34 PM

It still isn't going to mean a hill of beans until every American gets on board with the new plan and starts paying their fair share.


...

Let's say we let all "Bush Tax Cuts" expire and maintain the estate tax. How much more money is that projected to bring into the Federal Government?


----------

So H&R Block doesn't have your best interest(or the Governments best interest for that matter) at heart?
Must be why they let people file ridiculous tax claims and sit back and say "Its the IRS's problem"
So strange.....

Edit: You know their whole money making model is based off of your refund right?
Never stopped and thought why there was a Tax Preparer in Wal Mart around Christmas? (Refund anticipation loans)


Never stopped to wonder because I already knew. Which is why I never use such a service.

The point about the advertising is that these tax prep services are advertising to what people want - bigger refunds. Period.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#106 Strell

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:39 PM

what people want - bigger refunds. Period.


Bigger legally viable refunds. Don't say it like H&R Block is pulling a Homer Simpson on April 15th at 11:59 PM, tricking people into thinking they can get a bigger refund by lies or other nefarious means.


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#107 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:57 PM

Well, the conversation was talking about folks taking every deduction they have available to them. I don't think anyone was really discussing the general population avoiding taxes by illegal means.

H&R and the like advertise getting you the biggest tax refund by using every loophole, deduction and credit that they can. They don't advertise "Hey, we'll file your taxes in such a way that if you decide to get a home or auto loan in the next five years, it won't look bad." That's because "BIGGEST REFUND" draws customers in because that's what customers want.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#108 Clak

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:01 PM

The next time i see some of you say "I'm not a republican, I'm a ----!" I'm going to refer back to this thread.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#109 mykevermin

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:11 PM

Are people really talking about individual, voluntary giving to the government as a means of solving the debt crisis?

*sigh*

And here I thought we were grown ups. speedracer does what only he can do, distill down political maneuvering to its base so that it makes sense for everyone. And everything that follows is "herp derp well if you want to pay more go right ahead" horseshit.

speedracer, I love your posts, but I don't know why you bother.
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#110 camoor

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:13 PM

Paying taxes is not a moral obligation, there is no "do the right thing" when it comes to taxes.

And if you want fair share institute a consumption based tax system.


Fair enough, if you want to take morality out of the equation then let's go with something that works.

We know that tax cuts for the rich don't work - we have over a decade with that failed policy and America is in a recession caused by the same rich pricks that were supposed to be creating American jobs.

Paying off the debt is a long way away but let's try and turn this deficit situation around by instituting an honest progressive tax that treats investments like income.

#111 camoor

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:14 PM

...


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#112 irideabike

irideabike

Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:14 PM

Myke, we aren't, and your lack of reading comprehension of the past few pages surprises me. The debt crisis will never be solved, regardless of tax rates or voluntary giving. Without massive cuts to the military and entitlements we will never come close to balancing a budget, and we all know neither of those two entities will ever be touched.

#113 camoor

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:16 PM

Are people really talking about individual, voluntary giving to the government as a means of solving the debt crisis?

*sigh*

And here I thought we were grown ups. speedracer does what only he can do, distill down political maneuvering to its base so that it makes sense for everyone. And everything that follows is "herp derp well if you want to pay more go right ahead" horseshit.

speedracer, I love your posts, but I don't know why you bother.


FWIW I always learn something from Speedracer's posts, problem is it doesn't add much to the convo to say "that was interesting"

#114 irideabike

irideabike

Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:18 PM

We know that tax cuts for the rich don't work - we have over a decade with that failed policy and America is in a recession caused by the same rich pricks that were supposed to be creating American jobs. Paying off the debt is a long way away but let's try and turn this deficit situation around by instituting an honest progressive tax that treats investments like income.

I wouldn't say that. I would say that this recession is the result of a lack of regulation in giving loans for new home owners and the fact that America is an economy that thrives when we are in a war, and then stumbles when we are wrapping the fight up. The rich have been getting richer forever, until someone in their family inevitably blows through the family fortune.
There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

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#115 EdRyder

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:21 PM

...


Never stopped to wonder because I already knew. Which is why I never use such a service.

The point about the advertising is that these tax prep services are advertising to what people want - bigger refunds. Period.


Oh I'm sorry , I assumed you wanted me to respond to your post with actual content.

I've seen ads that suggest chillin poolside with my hommies is gonna be a much better time with a Big Mac in my hand.
Never saw any ads that claimed that crap was delicious.

Maybe the point was actually thats what they want , not what people want

#116 irideabike

irideabike

Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:23 PM

Really EdRyder? You think that the majority of people want smaller tax returns and less money in their pockets?
There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

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#117 camoor

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:29 PM

I wouldn't say that. I would say that this recession is the result of a lack of regulation in giving loans for new home owners and the fact that America is an economy that thrives when we are in a war, and then stumbles when we are wrapping the fight up. The rich have been getting richer forever, until someone in their family inevitably blows through the family fortune.


Greenspan's theory was that if he starved the govt by cutting off tax revenue then govt would have to straighten up and fly right when it came to spending. That and taking the leash off biz and letting them run wild would be good for America. :dunce:

So yeah there are alot of moving pieces in that giant fail machine but the way I see it the rich have been on the bender to end all benders and we all have to clean up the toxic waste dump they left in their wake. If we made a few common sense moves like treating investments like normal income, giving the SEC more clout, and shutting the revolving door, we could start to do away with the financial chicanery that vulture capitalist assholes like Romney use to fill their pockets while they gut American businesses not to mention scandals like Enron, Madoff, and the subprime lending fiasco.

These days there is just too much money in acting like an asshole. If you use a progressive tax rate and make a few sensible reforms we'll all be better off.

#118 camoor

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:33 PM

Really EdRyder? You think that the majority of people want smaller tax returns and less money in their pockets?


Most people want the rich to be taxed more.
Spoiler


#119 irideabike

irideabike

Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:37 PM

Agreed that investments need to be treated like normal income. Sadly cutting tax revenue did not stop slow down our nation's spending. It seems that nothing ever will, no one has the desire to tighten up their budgets.

I agree that something needs to be done, we just have different views on what. I'm bothered by the fact that corporation's like GE can pay $0 in taxes, and then their CEO is buddy buddy with my President. I'm not upset by someone who started a company and ran it successfully and profits immensely from this. The housing market needs to be more regulated, banks should be more regulated, and we need to cut the military budget.
There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

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Season 1: 7-9 Missed Playoffs
Season 2: 18-1 Superbowl Champs

#120 irideabike

irideabike

Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:38 PM

Really camoor? Obama wanted to tax
Spoiler
more, not the majority of tax payers
Spoiler
.
There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

Gentleman's League Record:
Season 1: 7-9 Missed Playoffs
Season 2: 18-1 Superbowl Champs