Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

The Fiscal Cliff


  • Please log in to reply
299 replies to this topic

#151 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:05 PM

Typical Myke. When he gets called out on his BS, he throws a hissy-fit, does some name calling, then takes his toys and goes home to play with himself.

Son, disagreeing with you isn't trolling. One day, you'll learn that there are millions of others and they all don't agree with you. When/if you learn that lesson, come back and try again.


I pointed out to you that what you're advocating ("huge" tax hikes and "massive" spending cuts) is *precisely* what the "fiscal cliff" is. You have nothing to say in response to my pointing out that what you're advocating is the single dumbest approach you could possibly have to repairing our economy.

I asked you about your thoughts on raising the medicare eligibility age.

You then repeat some claim that *I* take my toys and went home? I've gone nowhere.

I made some damning points in response to your vague, inane, undercooked claims. You haven't a bloody thing to say in response. Step up or get out.
Posted Image

#152 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:38 PM

http://www.nytimes.c...D3F40A93D947645

Republicans claim to be for much smaller government, but as a political matter they have always attacked government spending in the abstract, never coming clean with voters about the reality that big cuts in government spending can happen only if we sharply curtail very popular programs. In fact, less than a month ago the Romney/Ryan campaign was attacking Mr. Obama for, yes, cutting Medicare.


Krugman is talking about Republican leadership, however I think this also applies very clearly to a certain Dr. Thunder-stocking poster in this thread who proclaims big ideas, but fails to elaborate in any substantive manner when asked to do so.
Posted Image

#153 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:24 PM

I [...started my post with "wank wank" because I have the mentality of a ten year old]


Fixed that for you.

That's why it's not worth discussing with you.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#154 RealDeals

RealDeals

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:49 PM

Fixed that for you.

That's why it's not worth discussing with you.


Manipulates and edits someone else's post...

Claims other person is 'juvenile' :lol:

http://t0.gstatic.co...pBL0gBQ_wGNSsxj
http://t3.gstatic.co...4wtuy3FpqqoZSRA

Originally Posted by the4thnobleman Posted Image
I need power to come back on! I still need to spend $10 or so to get my $20. Stupid hurricane Sandy Vagina!

Posted Image

#155 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:02 PM

I accept your concession, Bob.
Posted Image

#156 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:36 PM

I'm glad that you accept the fact that you're acting like a ten-year-old and are not worthy of having a reasonable conversation with.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#157 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:08 PM

I'm glad that you accept the fact that you're acting like a ten-year-old and are not worthy of having a reasonable conversation with.


http://en.wikipedia....es_fiscal_cliff

The fiscal cliff is a newly coined term referring to the effect of a number of laws which (if unchanged) could result in tax increases, spending cuts, and a corresponding reduction in the budget deficit beginning in 2013. The deficit — the difference between what the government takes in and what it spends — is expected to be reduced by roughly half in 2013. That sharp reduction is the cliff. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates the sudden reduction will probably lead to a recession in early 2013 with the pace of economic activity picking up after 2013.


http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43262

The resulting weakening of the economy will lower taxable incomes and raise unemployment, generating a reduction in tax revenues and an increase in spending on such items as unemployment insurance.


So, having defined the 'fiscal cliff' and its effects on the stability of the US economy, let's revisit something:

What kind of tax increases and spending cuts would you like to see?


Huge cuts in military/defense spending. Massive cuts/eliminations in farm and energy subsidies. A simplification of the tax code that includes the elimination of credits and deductions. Elimination of several Federal programs and turning over control of those to the states (DoE, for example).


Now, let's compare that with:

The fiscal cliff is a newly coined term referring to the effect of a number of laws which (if unchanged) could result in tax increases, spending cuts, and a corresponding reduction in the budget deficit beginning in 2013.


:joystick:

Again, you got nothin'. Hang your head and walk away now.
Posted Image

#158 Javery

Javery

    Drug-Dealer-Keeper-Awayer

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:36 PM

Setting aside who you think can/can't afford to pay more, how do you guys feel about actually paying the increased taxes which could average around $2,200 per year? Pay cuts for everyone and another recession (probably) coming in 2013! To be honest, I'm not that psyched about it.

--- Bella's Arcade --- Donkey Kong + ---
___________________



#159 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:14 PM

I worry about the impact it could have on the recovery by lessening consumer spending in the lower and middle classes. Which is why I think those cuts need extended while the $250k and up (who'll keep spending) go up.

Personally I'd have no qualms with my taxes going up a couple grand. Would have no impact on my spending. Just a tad less put into savings.

Edited by dmaul1114, 03 December 2012 - 07:20 PM.


#160 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:01 PM

Now Myke's quoting Wikipedia... wow
Myke - your entire assumption of my viewpoint is that I want to avoid this "Fiscal cliff". On the contrary, I believe that, similar to the Great Depression, such an event would go a long way towards giving the general population a lesson in hard knocks.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#161 Clak

Clak

    Made of star stuff.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:58 PM

Fixed that for you.

That's why it's not worth discussing with you.

You deserve to work at wal-mart.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#162 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:12 PM

Thank you.

Thrilled to have a job where I can put in an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. Having my own office is a plus too. :D
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#163 Msut77

Msut77

    Occam's Shank

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:45 PM

Setting aside who you think can/can't afford to pay more, how do you guys feel about actually paying the increased taxes which could average around $2,200 per year? Pay cuts for everyone and another recession (probably) coming in 2013! To be honest, I'm not that psyched about it.


What?
wahhhhh noone helped me so they must not help anyone. - knoell

#164 Javery

Javery

    Drug-Dealer-Keeper-Awayer

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:48 AM

What?


Most everyone is going to be affected. How much more will you be paying in 2013 and how excited are you to do so?

--- Bella's Arcade --- Donkey Kong + ---
___________________



#165 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:48 AM

Setting aside who you think can/can't afford to pay more, how do you guys feel about actually paying the increased taxes which could average around $2,200 per year? Pay cuts for everyone and another recession (probably) coming in 2013! To be honest, I'm not that psyched about it.


$85 less on average per paycheck. That's a good bit of discretionary income. It will be sad to see our favorite sushi place go out of business. The owners won't make any profit and the employees will lose their jobs and their income. Cue domino effect. Not good for the economy.

Also, your annual income being among the 1% stand to face a more substantial tax increase. What do you anticipate giving up, out of curiosity?

Now Myke's quoting Wikipedia... wow
Myke - your entire assumption of my viewpoint is that I want to avoid this "Fiscal cliff". On the contrary, I believe that, similar to the Great Depression, such an event would go a long way towards giving the general population a lesson in hard knocks.


So you, like perditiontroy and a few other righties have mentioned more overtly (since they are at least willing to take a stand on something), you *want* the fiscal cliff to occur. Please elaborate on what you expect will happen - both in terms of the economy and how this will be a "lesson in hard knocks." What will the net benefit be of the fiscal cliff, in your view? Assuming you see some kind of positive outcome, and aren't simply someone wishing for disaster to exist for its own sake.
Posted Image

#166 Javery

Javery

    Drug-Dealer-Keeper-Awayer

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:01 AM

I'm not in the top 1%. It's going to be significant though - enough so that I will probably not be making any more charitable donations.

Calculator HERE - not sure how accurate it is though.

--- Bella's Arcade --- Donkey Kong + ---
___________________



#167 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:02 AM

I believe that this will increase the chances for another generation to grow up being more self-reliant and less trusting of the government.

Either that, or everyone will die.

Some guys just want to watch the world burn.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#168 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:08 AM

Some guys just want to watch the world burn.


Is this your MO?
Posted Image

#169 Msut77

Msut77

    Occam's Shank

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:16 AM

Most everyone is going to be affected. How much more will you be paying in 2013 and how excited are you to do so?


Short answer not enough to change my fairly sparse lifestyle. Remind me again why we can't just keep the lower rates for people making less than say 500k per year?
wahhhhh noone helped me so they must not help anyone. - knoell

#170 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:21 AM

Is this your MO?


More in the first half.

Tell me myke - do you hold doors open for people? I'm not just talking about someone walking up behind you - would you go out of your way to hold a door open for someone?
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#171 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:41 AM

More in the first half.

Tell me myke - do you hold doors open for people? I'm not just talking about someone walking up behind you - would you go out of your way to hold a door open for someone?


Of course. I would love to hold the door for you one day, if I ever get the opportunity. I would even bow and extend my hand so as to show deference to you, the great UncleBob, as I point in the direction you should use to walk through the door.

I believe that this will increase the chances for another generation to grow up being more self-reliant and less trusting of the government.


So this is more your MO than the "watch the world burn" bit. Okay, lovely. How do you think allowing the fiscal cliff triggers to occur will lead to this result? Walk me through the unbridled brilliance that is UncleBob logic that goes from "fiscal cliff" to "future generations are self-reliant." There's a heck of a lot of steps from the beginning to the end there. But, given your immense intellect, I'm confident that you've developed a thorough understanding of all the mechanisms that go from point A (fiscal cliff) to point Z (self-reliance, less government). I can't wait, I'm chomping at the bit, I'm beside myself and head over heels in anticipation of your answer here.

Your response is not even close to as self-evident as you seem to think it must be. So, pretty please with a cherry on top (since we all must kiss your ass lest you go off and pout and avoid even the most rudimentary attempt at answering a simple question, I will now go out of my way to kiss your ass so as to create the opposite response - i.e., you actually answering a question) explain yourself.
Posted Image

#172 Javery

Javery

    Drug-Dealer-Keeper-Awayer

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:12 AM

Short answer not enough to change my fairly sparse lifestyle. Remind me again why we can't just keep the lower rates for people making less than say 500k per year?


That's fine by me.

--- Bella's Arcade --- Donkey Kong + ---
___________________



#173 usickenme

usickenme

    I'm the a-hole

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:24 AM

More in the first half.

Tell me myke - do you hold doors open for people? I'm not just talking about someone walking up behind you - would you go out of your way to hold a door open for someone?




there is a difference between simply holding the door open and giving someone a kick on the ass on the way through because you *think* they need one.

#174 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:45 AM

...and again, Myke shows why he's not worth attempting to carry on a conversation with.

*yawn*.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#175 Clak

Clak

    Made of star stuff.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:46 AM

What I'd like to see happen is that "some" people wake the Fuck up and start remembering just what their station in life is. We're (for the most part) the little guys, we're not supposed to defend those we grovel to just to make a living. They have teams of lawyers and PR firms for that. We're supposed to recognize when we're getting a bum deal and revolt against it.

You think that this will lead to a generation distrusting of government, bob? If anything I HOPE it leads to a generation that recognizes they've been screwed over by those at the top. If it takes a damn class war for it to happen, so be it. Maybe we'll even see the importance of collective bargaining again.

edit- Fuck it, I'm not getting into a conversation with slidecage's older brother.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#176 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:50 AM

...and again, Myke shows why he's not worth attempting to carry on a conversation with.

*yawn*.


I shower you with compliments and you shun any attempt at a response.

how disappointing.
Posted Image

#177 egofed

egofed

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:20 AM

Going over the cliff cuts spending. Borrowing .43 cents of every dollar spent right now points to a spending problem. I also don't think another special interest laden stimulus is really gonna spur the economy that much. It blows me away that Krugman doesn't see the debt as a crisis, mainly because we can print our own money. I wonder if Great Britian thought the same thing when they lost their standing as the world's currency. "It could never happen to us...."

#178 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:40 AM

So you're okay with going over the cliff, too, then?
Posted Image

#179 egofed

egofed

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:48 AM

I'm hesitant, but don't see it as the end of life as we know it. I'm all for spending cuts. Cut the military by 4x its current budget. Cut all foreign aid and corporate welfare. Cut all grants and wasteful endowment programs. You know I dislike welfare, so cut or reduce it as much as possible. Democrats would get their tax raises, and could pass a 250K and under cut later if they wanted. Just do something to get our debt under control. I'd rather go back into a recession now while we are still halfway solvent then suffer the depression that will eventually follow if we continue spending like this. Heck, the two credit downgrades we received already haven't killed us, what's a few more?;-) Do you support Krugman's suggestion to just keep printing money? Do you think its possible that we could lose our standing as the world currency?

#180 Msut77

Msut77

    Occam's Shank

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:26 AM

Other places have been trying austerity you know and it hasn't worked for them. Meanwhile what Krugman suggests is standard Macroeconomics and has asolid track level historically.
wahhhhh noone helped me so they must not help anyone. - knoell