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#5521 ricecake

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:33 AM

Will buy Xenogears, once that go on sale... both FF7 and Xenogear is easily the best RPG on PS

#5522 J7.

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:35 AM

I am so confused right now. I hear some people say that the load times are horrible and some say that they are not that bad for Final Fantasy VI. I have never played FFVI and I love the 2d Final Fantasy games like I and II on my PSP. I plan on getting it to play on my PSV. And for $5 it couldn't hurt.


Just get the VC version for $8.

#5523 Woocls

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:37 AM

VIII's battle system is my favorite of the series, with the junction system giving you significant freedom to build your characters in a variety of ways. Aside from the long summon animations, what did you find to be a mess with it? I know some people find drawing spells for long periods of time to be too tedious, but that's very optional and is something you'd only do if you're grinding (for spells to junction to character stats/elements/effects/resistances), which is going to be tedious in any RPG.

I hated the draw mechanic. It added SOOOO much grinding to the game needlessly. And the fact that if you put your best magic on stats you got weaker as fights went on if you used any of your magic. So often times you draw magic to never use. I hated it cause every new spell that opened up I'd spend forever gathering it so my characters were way over leveled and it just killed the fun for me. (I didn't make it anywhere close to finishing it last attempt.)

#5524 Kazaganthi

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:06 AM

TRIPLE TRIAD in FF8! Tetra Master can go Fuck itself.

Critter Crunch for $1? Sounds very cool.

Definitely recommend Beyond Good & Evil, awesome game that deserves a sequel. Which has been teased soooo much, remember that HD-CG video of Peyj? It's been on sale for $5 previously, worth that price, but I bet it'll be lower :D


#5525 mars009

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:09 AM

I've been playing it on the vita and haven't had a bit of problems. Granted it has a slight load time (compared to SNES) but it's way faster than it was on the PS1 and compared to most games I've played barely existent.


Ok you guys got me. So in the end its going to be pretty much all the FF games that can be played with my Vita. Thanks for all the recommendations guys, though my wallet highly disagrees

#5526 Josh1billion

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:15 AM

I hated the draw mechanic. It added SOOOO much grinding to the game needlessly. And the fact that if you put your best magic on stats you got weaker as fights went on if you used any of your magic. So often times you draw magic to never use. I hated it cause every new spell that opened up I'd spend forever gathering it so my characters were way over leveled and it just killed the fun for me. (I didn't make it anywhere close to finishing it last attempt.)

To be fair, I think both of those problems would be solved by just choosing not to draw-grind. ;)

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#5527 PancakesAreLove

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:18 AM

TRIPLE TRIAD in FF8! Tetra Master can go Fuck itself.

Critter Crunch for $1? Sounds very cool.

Definitely recommend Beyond Good & Evil, awesome game that deserves a sequel. Which has been teased soooo much, remember that HD-CG video of Peyj? It's been on sale for $5 previously, worth that price, but I bet it'll be lower :D


I really hated Tetra Master. Triple Triad was so simple and fun but if we are talking about mini/side games, Blitzball was the best. I didn't like X that much but I played the shit out of Blitzball.

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#5528 JCrichton

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:07 AM

To be fair, I think both of those problems would be solved by just choosing not to draw-grind. ;)

While I agree, any game that sets itself up to be anti-grind while being a series that was always very friendly to the same concept is poor design.

#5529 Eggman

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:45 AM

That's not really poor design at all. It's extremely intelligent. FF8 allows more customizability in the way you play it than any other game in the series.

And you should never be draw/storing up to 100 magic of everything anyway. The vast majority of spells that you'd use frequently (attack spells) tend to be quite weak for raising your stats. Only some like Quake/Flare/Meteor/Ultima raise stats by a ton and those are the obvious ones. Being able to break the game by instead utilizing magic refine from items and cards and even shutting off battles entirely if you see fit creates a game unlike any other.

If you can't understand that a game in a series can try to change something like that, that really isn't the game's fault. It's the player's shortsightedness.

#5530 Dahk

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:48 AM

so...Guardians of Middle-earth is damn near unplayable huh?

Wait Time: 16:47 and counting...

fun game but between the wait times and the disconnects...ugh

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#5531 Woocls

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:50 AM

That's not really poor design at all. It's extremely intelligent. FF8 allows more customizability in the way you play it than any other game in the series.

And you should never be draw/storing up to 100 magic of everything anyway. The vast majority of spells that you'd use frequently (attack spells) tend to be quite weak for raising your stats. Only some like Quake/Flare/Meteor/Ultima raise stats by a ton and those are the obvious ones. Being able to break the game by instead utilizing magic refine from items and cards and even shutting off battles entirely if you see fit creates a game unlike any other.

If you can't understand that a game in a series can try to change something like that, that really isn't the game's fault. It's the player's shortsightedness.

I loved the card battle game. I don't know... it just felt like I had to spend more time grinding in 8 than any other FF game. And it wasn't even fun grinding. It was put something to sleep until I'm done drawing off it with all my characters...

#5532 eldergamer

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:54 AM

I liked FF8, the taller, more mature looking version of the characters. I liked drawing spells, really liked the Triple Triad mini game.

Disliked FF9. Characters looked like odd kewpie dolls, hated building your skills based on what weapons you had. Game just felt like a re-hash.

But, the fact that the games are $5 each really makes mine (and most other people's here) opinion null and void. It's $5. Spend your money how you want.

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#5533 jay_remedy

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:13 AM

so...Guardians of Middle-earth is damn near unplayable huh?

Wait Time: 16:47 and counting...

fun game but between the wait times and the disconnects...ugh


I never had to wait that long, most I think was six minutes. I'm signin on to play now actually.

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#5534 Royal High Knight

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:18 AM

Im in for one piece and FF 8. Believe it or not, it's the only FF game I have played (aside from the first level of FF13).

#5535 JCrichton

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:27 AM

That's not really poor design at all. It's extremely intelligent. FF8 allows more customizability in the way you play it than any other game in the series.

And you should never be draw/storing up to 100 magic of everything anyway. The vast majority of spells that you'd use frequently (attack spells) tend to be quite weak for raising your stats. Only some like Quake/Flare/Meteor/Ultima raise stats by a ton and those are the obvious ones. Being able to break the game by instead utilizing magic refine from items and cards and even shutting off battles entirely if you see fit creates a game unlike any other.

If you can't understand that a game in a series can try to change something like that, that really isn't the game's fault. It's the player's shortsightedness.

It's the game's job to be fun while also following along with general "Final Fantasy"-isms, one of which is maxing out stuff. New systems (like every PS and forward), changes, tweaks and such are par for the course and every game should at least try to bring something new to the table. However, that doesn't mean that it will be fun. And with fun being subjective your "shortsighted" comment is condescending. As if there is pure genius going on that is simply being ignored when really it was the game's fault for creating something that became a slog to some people.

Over the years I've encountered more people that just flat out stopped playing FF XIII before getting to the end than with any other PS1 era FF game. Most folks who stopped barely got to disc 4 while others just petered out during disc 3. Much of that has to do with poor design. Sometimes there is just not enough focus in that particular game to be worth the time for so little return. Which was a bad call on the part of the designers. On the whole, the game's systems just ended up eating into each other making it not fun.

My personal experience in this matter of people not finishing is certainly a small sample size but I have a feeling it's not far off the mark. Some people loved it while grinding to the end and others just threw up their hands and went on to the next game.

#5536 JCrichton

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:28 AM

Disliked FF9. Characters looked like odd kewpie dolls, hated building your skills based on what weapons you had. Game just felt like a re-hash.

To be fair, that was exactly what they were going for. ;)

#5537 Pravado

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 07:27 AM

anyone got a link to that one month of free EU ps+? it was posted the other day

just got sleeping dogs on it, want to make sure i get another code to extend it a month after it's up

#5538 MSUHitman

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 07:34 AM

That's not really poor design at all. It's extremely intelligent. FF8 allows more customizability in the way you play it than any other game in the series.

And you should never be draw/storing up to 100 magic of everything anyway. The vast majority of spells that you'd use frequently (attack spells) tend to be quite weak for raising your stats. Only some like Quake/Flare/Meteor/Ultima raise stats by a ton and those are the obvious ones. Being able to break the game by instead utilizing magic refine from items and cards and even shutting off battles entirely if you see fit creates a game unlike any other.

If you can't understand that a game in a series can try to change something like that, that really isn't the game's fault. It's the player's shortsightedness.


I loved the card battle game. I don't know... it just felt like I had to spend more time grinding in 8 than any other FF game. And it wasn't even fun grinding. It was put something to sleep until I'm done drawing off it with all my characters...


Only things I liked about 8 was the card game and the story. The card game used to be sold in EB Games, I wish I had it.

Absolutely hated the draw system.

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#5539 PancakesAreLove

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 07:35 AM

Only things I liked about 8 was the card game and the story. The card game used to be sold in EB Games, I wish I had it.

Absolutely hated the draw system.


What I really hated was that you couldn't skip the GF attack animations.

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#5540 Velo214

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 07:50 AM

haha, not only you couldn't skip them, but they had the mechanic where you would mash to power up your gf attacks :) that game got so crazy

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#5541 Eggman

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:21 AM

It's the game's job to be fun while also following along with general "Final Fantasy"-isms, one of which is maxing out stuff. New systems (like every PS and forward), changes, tweaks and such are par for the course and every game should at least try to bring something new to the table. However, that doesn't mean that it will be fun. And with fun being subjective your "shortsighted" comment is condescending. As if there is pure genius going on that is simply being ignored when really it was the game's fault for creating something that became a slog to some people.

Over the years I've encountered more people that just flat out stopped playing FF XIII before getting to the end than with any other PS1 era FF game. Most folks who stopped barely got to disc 4 while others just petered out during disc 3. Much of that has to do with poor design. Sometimes there is just not enough focus in that particular game to be worth the time for so little return. Which was a bad call on the part of the designers. On the whole, the game's systems just ended up eating into each other making it not fun.

My personal experience in this matter of people not finishing is certainly a small sample size but I have a feeling it's not far off the mark. Some people loved it while grinding to the end and others just threw up their hands and went on to the next game.


Not one thing that you said is actually a meaningful statement. Like, you didn't say even one specific thing as to what's actually bad. And the guy who said it had a ton of grinding is just flat-out wrong as it's literally the only FF with zero grinding required for anything at all.

And it isn't the game's job to adhere to your stupid ideas as to what Final Fantasy "is." They're the creators. They tell you what the series is. You have no say in it.

#5542 The Furry Panda

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:23 AM

Not one thing that you said is actually a meaningful statement. Like, you didn't say even one specific thing as to what's actually bad. And the guy who said it had a ton of grinding is just flat-out wrong as it's literally the only FF with zero grinding required for anything at all.

And it isn't the game's job to adhere to your stupid ideas as to what Final Fantasy "is." They're the creators. They tell you what the series is. You have no say in it.


Tell that to the dmc fanboys :p

#5543 jay_remedy

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:24 AM

It's like the people who get mad at a game and call it boring because there is one OP attack you can do for the whole game and it's a cakewalk. No one is forcing you to use that attack, do something else.

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#5544 PrinnyJ

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:30 AM

Triple Triad was awesome...until you started spreading the random rule. Putting that in the game ruined it for me. I had all but 1 freaking card....good thing I have a full set of the RL cards (and most of the collector set that wasn't the playing cards). The first card I bought of it was the one I couldn't get in the game lol.

Also, I was going to get FFVI, but reading that the PSX version is so bad...I think I'll just track down a GBA cart of it.

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#5545 affa

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:06 AM

so...Guardians of Middle-earth is damn near unplayable huh?

Wait Time: 16:47 and counting...

fun game but between the wait times and the disconnects...ugh


odd, i auto play against 5 AI after only 2 minutes.

it's a cool game, though it does need some network love.

#5546 affa

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:12 AM

Over the years I've encountered more people that just flat out stopped playing FF XIII before getting to the end than with any other PS1 era FF game. Most folks who stopped barely got to disc 4 while others just petered out during disc 3. Much of that has to do with poor design. Sometimes there is just not enough focus in that particular game to be worth the time for so little return. Which was a bad call on the part of the designers. On the whole, the game's systems just ended up eating into each other making it not fun.


FF XIII is brilliant, they just took far too long to get around to opening it all up. The slow (and linear) introduction of the battle system was certainly bad pacing, but the overall design of the battle system was fantastic in my opinion. That said, pacing is part of design, certainly. I'm not really sure what you mean by 'the game's systems just ended up eating into each other'....

It's a shame they blew the pacing so badly, though.

#5547 affa

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:19 AM

It's like the people who get mad at a game and call it boring because there is one OP attack you can do for the whole game and it's a cakewalk. No one is forcing you to use that attack, do something else.


But that's not how game design works. Rogue Galaxy is an easy example, because I recently played that -- they have a entire hunting license system built in which, in order to complete, requires massive grinding of random battles, which in turn causes you to be overpowered -- and between the grind and then being overpowered, it's hard not to burn out on the game (which is otherwise great).

Now, sure, nobody is 'forcing' anyone to complete the licenses. But the fact remains that the designers built in a system like that knowing full well a decent portion of rpg'ers are completionists and/or ocd about crap like that. And actually doing it not only breaks the game leveling wise, but is just plain busy work / boring /burn out material.

The same is true of whatever overpowered attack you might be talking about. If it's in there, from a tactical perspective you should use it. But if you use it, it breaks combat. So with this hypothetical attack of yours, i'd be pissed either way, because i'm either not using my characters correctly (avoiding using an attack) or i'm OP. That sucks, and that's bad design.

Solid design should reward solid play, not punish it.

#5548 Kanokare

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:26 AM

FF XIII is brilliant, they just took far too long to get around to opening it all up. The slow (and linear) introduction of the battle system was certainly bad pacing, but the overall design of the battle system was fantastic in my opinion. That said, pacing is part of design, certainly. I'm not really sure what you mean by 'the game's systems just ended up eating into each other'....

It's a shame they blew the pacing so badly, though.


FF13 was a fine game outside of the linearity and a few melo drama like
Spoiler
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#5549 JCrichton

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:53 PM

What I really hated was that you couldn't skip the GF attack animations.

That was a real killer. Probably the worst offender ever for unskippable attack stuff although VII was bad, too (Knights of the Round, anyone?). This is a good example of a poor design choice.

Not one thing that you said is actually a meaningful statement. Like, you didn't say even one specific thing as to what's actually bad.

Then there should be nothing for you to get offended over or have a problem with. ;)

And the guy who said it had a ton of grinding is just flat-out wrong as it's literally the only FF with zero grinding required for anything at all.

Some people like their grinding. A FF game should allow for that to happen without penalty. Actually, every RPG should if that's the way a player wants to do it being that it wasn't an issue in the first 7 games.

And it isn't the game's job to adhere to your stupid ideas as to what Final Fantasy "is." They're the creators. They tell you what the series is. You have no say in it.

This is a steaming load but you are entitled to your nutty opinion. A long running franchise should have a semblance of what came before it otherwise there is no reason to have it be a sequel.

FF XIII is brilliant, they just took far too long to get around to opening it all up. The slow (and linear) introduction of the battle system was certainly bad pacing, but the overall design of the battle system was fantastic in my opinion. That said, pacing is part of design, certainly. I'm not really sure what you mean by 'the game's systems just ended up eating into each other'....

Not great wording on my part.

On the whole, everything from the mini-games to the character customization to the draw system was just too much hassle. You also mentioned the pacing which is another massive problem. Takes way too long for everything get moving (even the character customization) and when it finally opens up all that customization has the fun and charm of sifting through excel spreadsheets. For some folks that can be really fun but in FFXIII's case it was simply a chore.

Add that to frustration that Triple Triad became in my game (likely my fault as I did enjoy the mini-game for a long time until the rules made it unplayable), the mega-boring GF animations which made combat a hassle and the time investment was no longer worth it since all aspects of the game came together into a slog.

It's a shame they blew the pacing so badly, though.

Yup. I really wanted to like it. Always told myself I'd go back and either finish where I left off or start from the beginning and play through to the end.

Overall, I can't say it was a bad game. Objectively speaking, it was very good and I can see why people liked it. I just wasn't one of them. It had some serious issues and for every design choice made that was good and progressive (gold/items being eliminated for the sake of more story focus being a good example) there was another that made things either too complicated, boring or just too drawn out.

#5550 TheSporkWithin

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:50 PM

I'd just like to point out that JCrichton keeps typing FFXIII (13) instead of FFVIII (8), some people are responding to him about his points as they relate to VIII because they are following the context of the conversation, while others (like affa) are chiming in and posting about XIII - to which JCrichton is still responding (at length!) as though they are writing about VIII.

Anyway, carry on.

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