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Walmart Cop Shoots and Kills Mother of Two for Shoplifting - In Front of Kids


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#31 GBAstar

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:08 PM

Just hypothetically speaking, he could have been holding onto the door and car, as she drove off in a panic he pull his gun out, she may or may not have tried to grab the gun and then discharged. We really don't know the facts but any of this should have never happened.

His main job is to observe and report and that's it, why he carried a gun I don't know but this is Texas. Can this be a trigger for gun control in Texas?!? He should at most have only carried pepper spray. My only concern is despite the horrendous outcome of this, were the kids left alone in the car? I really couldn't gather that from reading the article.


He was an off duty cop. This is Walmart's statement:

This is a tragic situation and we recognize this is a difficult time for all parties involved. We're committed to working with law enforcement and providing any information we have as they determine the facts of the case. Because this is an active investigation, any specific details of the incident should come from law enforcement.

We hire off duty officers to provide security to some of our stores. While we have policies in place for our associates to disengage from situations that might put them or others in harm's way, off-duty officers working at a WM store are authorized to act in accordance with their department's code of conduct.



...trying to feed and clothe her family, at that. Should we pop back over to the welfare discussion in the other thread? Really, not much to discuss I suppose though, what you're seeing is what happens when people don't have a social safety net or the access to that helping hand is so difficult that it is effectively blocked anyway.


^ These are the type of comments that frustrate me the most. You have no idea what her situations are or what her motives to steal were. We don't know what they were trying to steal this time and we have no idea what she lifted the last time other then it was clothes and "meat".

I'm sure in your head you're thinking Clothes = baby clothes and Meat = Dinner but it could have just as well been a weave and slim jim's. We have no idea.

Just like you don't know what type of aid she may or may not receive and how much or how little.

#32 camoor

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:28 PM

^ These are the type of comments that frustrate me the most. You have no idea what her situations are or what her motives to steal were. We don't know what they were trying to steal this time and we have no idea what she lifted the last time other then it was clothes and "meat".

I'm sure in your head you're thinking Clothes = baby clothes and Meat = Dinner but it could have just as well been a weave and slim jim's. We have no idea.

Just like you don't know what type of aid she may or may not receive and how much or how little.


For the record I think we're all on the same page that the cop made a tragic mistake.

I just don't see how the authorities can get away with condoning a shoplifting incident that ended with a cop firing into a car full of kids and killing the woman who was driving. I suspect that the "welfare queen" mythos plays into the perception of these incidents, and possibly even the shooter himself, especially after I read the comments in that article I cited. It's sad.

#33 RedvsBlue

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:28 PM

^ These are the type of comments that frustrate me the most. You have no idea what her situations are or what her motives to steal were. We don't know what they were trying to steal this time and we have no idea what she lifted the last time other then it was clothes and "meat".

I'm sure in your head you're thinking Clothes = baby clothes and Meat = Dinner but it could have just as well been a weave and slim jim's. We have no idea.

Just like you don't know what type of aid she may or may not receive and how much or how little.


You might be hiding behind a wall of "We don't know everything yet" but you're clearly not innocent of making your own generalizations. For one, its apparent that you've already ruled out the possibility the shooting wasn't justified.

Sure, I'm making a generalization but trying to transpose clothing into a weave and meat into slim jims is more than a bit of a stretch.

#34 UncleBob

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:04 PM

I wonder why stories like this always make national headlines, but stories like this rarely do.
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#35 soulvengeance

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:26 PM

I wonder why stories like this always make national headlines, but stories like this rarely do.


Well, because one was a random stranger who was robbing the place, while the other was an off duty officer charged with protecting the place. You could easily ask why all shootings don't make the national news.
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#36 IRHari

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:51 PM

I wonder why stories like this always make national headlines, but stories like this rarely do.


http://www.cbsnews.c...almart-robbery/

I'm trying to figure it out too.
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#37 Clak

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:03 AM

Well now we know what Bob does at walmart. ;)
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#38 UncleBob

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:25 AM

http://www.cbsnews.c...almart-robbery/

I'm trying to figure it out too.


Are you trying to equate a blip on CBS's website to the amount of media attention this story is getting? Do go on...

Well now we know what Bob does at walmart. ;)


Oh really? Do tell. :D
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#39 IRHari

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:17 AM

You said stories like the one you linked rarely get national headlines but the one in OP ALWAYS makes national headlines. I linked a national headline which talked about your story.
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#40 dopa345

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:12 AM

Sounds like she was shot in self-defense, not simply because she had shoplifted. Big difference.

However, I agree that the situation should have been avoided with some better judgment.

#41 IRHari

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:17 AM

Sounds like she was shot in self-defense, not simply because she had shoplifted. Big difference.

However, I agree that the situation should have been avoided with some better judgment.


SHe forced Campbell between the car door and the driver's seat?
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#42 GBAstar

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:40 AM

SHe forced Campbell between the car door and the driver's seat?


1) Went to store that had a trespass notice against her

2) Shoplifted from store she had previously shoplifted from that had a trespass notice against her

3) Hit the officer with her purse

4) Tried to drive away while the officer was in between the car and the door


Did she deserve to die? No.

But let's not strip away the accountability factor here.

#43 RedvsBlue

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:47 AM

3) Hit the officer with her purse.


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#44 Clak

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:59 AM

Big set of onions on that guy.
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#45 GBAstar

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:08 AM

Well it's nice that you guys think every human life is worth a batrillion dollars; that people should be forgiven over and over and over even when they show that don't have the ability to contribute.

I mean this is a young lady that left New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina to start her life over... and apparently she did a fine job because she was described as "perfect".

Not sure what that makes me but I guess I should be proud of my accomplishments...

no one deserves to die but I think we should be a little bit more appreciative of those that give their lives in honor of something (soldiers, policeman, firefighters, truck drivers, etc.) and not someone who showed no regard for herself, her children, her family, walmart, the courts, the law, society....

I've already said several times in this thread that I know the shooting will be ruled as justified; it's just how these things work but that I disagree with the officers actions and I'll disagree with the ruling.

The point being though at some point people should understand that certain actions hold inherent risks.

Show me the article of the shoplifter that just lays on the floor after being confronted and is then shot in the head while laying on the ground, has no weapon, posed no risk, and then at that point I'll share your outrage.

#46 dohdough

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:11 AM



#47 RedvsBlue

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:12 AM

Well it's nice that you guys think every human life is worth a batrillion dollars; that people should be forgiven over and over and over even when they show that don't have the ability to contribute.
.


It's nice that you even try to measure the worth of human life in terms of dollars...

no one deserves to die but

This kids, is what we call a disclaimer. Someone uses it when they want to say something offensive or inflammatory but want to act like they're not doing it.

See also: "I'm not a racisct but" or "I love my wife but"

Show me the article of the shoplifter that just lays on the floor after being confronted and is then shot in the head while laying on the ground, has no weapon, posed no risk, and then at that point I'll share your outrage.



Edited by RedvsBlue, 12 December 2012 - 04:40 AM.


#48 Clak

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:13 AM

That's actually really nice, I guess we can estimate how much his life is worth then. Buck fifty? Anyone?
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#49 Clak

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:14 AM

This was at bob's walmart?
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#50 dohdough

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:19 AM

This was at bob's walmart?

HAHAHA...you're going to get me banned permanently just for making that connection!:lol:

But no, I just think of it anytime someone mentions being whooped by a purse...or anything purse related nowadays...

#51 UncleBob

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:08 AM

Well now we know what Bob does at walmart. ;)

Oh really? Do tell. :D



*pin drop*

You said stories like the one you linked rarely get national headlines but the one in OP ALWAYS makes national headlines. I linked a national headline which talked about your story.


So, you linked to one national headline from the website of one of the smallest national news sources to prove my point that these types of incidents rarely make national headlines?

Okay then, thanks.
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#52 skiizim

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:58 AM

Well it's nice that you guys think every human life is worth a batrillion dollars; that people should be forgiven over and over and over even when they show that don't have the ability to contribute.

I mean this is a young lady that left New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina to start her life over... and apparently she did a fine job because she was described as "perfect".

Not sure what that makes me but I guess I should be proud of my accomplishments...

no one deserves to die but I think we should be a little bit more appreciative of those that give their lives in honor of something (soldiers, policeman, firefighters, truck drivers, etc.) and not someone who showed no regard for herself, her children, her family, walmart, the courts, the law, society....

I've already said several times in this thread that I know the shooting will be ruled as justified; it's just how these things work but that I disagree with the officers actions and I'll disagree with the ruling.

The point being though at some point people should understand that certain actions hold inherent risks.

Show me the article of the shoplifter that just lays on the floor after being confronted and is then shot in the head while laying on the ground, has no weapon, posed no risk, and then at that point I'll share your outrage.


The bottom line is no matter how inexcusable petty theft is, especially from a multi billion dollar company like Wal-Mart, the off duty officer should have only observed and reported once it escalated so far. It should have never transcended the way it did, the off duty officer should have only written down the license plate and reported it.

#53 mykevermin

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:47 PM

The bottom line is no matter how inexcusable petty theft is, especially from a multi billion dollar company like Wal-Mart, the off duty officer should have only observed and reported once it escalated so far. It should have never transcended the way it did, the off duty officer should have only written down the license plate and reported it.


Bingo. There's a couple of important questions as far as I'm concerned - one legal, one philosophical.

1) Did the security officer meet the standard of the local/state jurisdiction for use of lethal force? (related: If the "imminent threat" standard is used in that the officer was "between the car door and car," do you *truly* believe that meets the threshold of "imminent threat"?)

2) Should the use of lethal force to apprehend shoplifters be something we endorse and applaud as members of a civilized society that possesses the judicial principles (equality under the law, presumed innocence, due process) that we do?
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#54 DurbanBrown

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:57 PM

you steal, you put yourself at risk and your life in danger. even at wal-mart

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#55 Clak

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

We control the danger in this case.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

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#56 irideabike

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:43 PM

1) Did the security officer meet the standard of the local/state jurisdiction for use of lethal force? (related: If the "imminent threat" standard is used in that the officer was "between the car door and car," do you *truly* believe that meets the threshold of "imminent threat"?)2) Should the use of lethal force to apprehend shoplifters be something we endorse and applaud as members of a civilized society that possesses the judicial principles (equality under the law, presumed innocence, due process) that we do?

1) Yes, if she started driving and he was between the car door and the car, while the vehicle was moving.2)No, the use of lethal force should never be used.
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#57 camoor

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:56 PM

Well it's nice that you guys think every human life is worth a batrillion dollars; that people should be forgiven over and over and over even when they show that don't have the ability to contribute.
...
no one deserves to die but I think we should be a little bit more appreciative of those that give their lives in honor of something (soldiers, policeman, firefighters, truck drivers, etc.) and not someone who showed no regard for herself, her children, her family, walmart, the courts, the law, society....


Funny you say forgiven, the police force has already forgiven the police officer for killing this woman, as you say he'll most likely walk away from this without even a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile the woman is dead, it doesn't matter if you forgive her now, she has already paid the ultimate price.

I'll tell you what I don't appreciate - walmart police who shootup cars full of women and kids over a bag of Walmart merchandise. I expect stupid criminals to act stupid, I don't expect walmart police to act like the Punisher.

#58 cochesecochese

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:58 PM

Yes you're absolutely right. I have no idea why they need armed security in a Walmart. I understand the guy was a sheriff or a LEO of some sort but I'd think he could have just taken the license plate and called it quits.

In another thread I thought someone mentioned that some Walmarts in rough neighborhoods have police substations in them, is this true?

If their is a pending lawsuit would it be against Walmart or the officer or both? I don't think Walmart is at fault here but it'll gain national attention just because of where it happened.


True story - sort of. I've never heard of a police box built into a store but I've seen plenty in the center or side of plazas. Wide range of anchor stores too.

Pretty damn funny this is even being asked, to be honest. Sometimes I swear I'm the only real poor person on this board.

The bottom line is no matter how inexcusable petty theft is, especially from a multi billion dollar company like Wal-Mart, the off duty officer should have only observed and reported once it escalated so far. It should have never transcended the way it did, the off duty officer should have only written down the license plate and reported it.


Wal-Mart corporate is fucking mental if they allow their loss prevention department to pursue a suspect into the parking lot, especially armed. If she had been issued a no trespass, then local LEO should have been called immediately after LP spotted her in the store. Plainclothes LP or an associate could have easily stalled her the 5 minutes it would have taken for the fuzz to show up without tipping her off that she had been seen lifting and someone could have nabbed the license plate in the meantime.

So at it's core this is a story of incompetence from corporate all the way down. No surprise there, really.

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#59 UncleBob

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:04 PM

If she had been issued a no trespass, then local LEO should have been called immediately after LP spotted her in the store.


You did read the original story, right? The guy who followed onto the parking lot and did the shooting was local law enforcement.
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#60 mykevermin

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:12 PM

1) Yes, if she started driving and he was between the car door and the car, while the vehicle was moving.


Can you elaborate? I think we can agree on imminent threat if he is standing in front of the car and the car starts to move forward - he is at risk of being run over and killed. between the car door and the car, I'm much more skeptical. How do you see the logic of this being a clearcut case of imminent threat?
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