Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

Walmart Cop Shoots and Kills Mother of Two for Shoplifting - In Front of Kids


  • Please log in to reply
153 replies to this topic

#91 Clak

Clak

    Made of star stuff.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:18 PM

Uhhh...extra shifts in uniform and acting in an official capacity is different from being a mall cop. But please go on about how ignorant that statement is.


Cops are public servants and private companies should not be able to use public resources like that in an unofficial capacity for official matters. <insert monopoly on violence libertarian talk>

I'm not talking about an off-duty officer in civvies happening upon a crime, but someone in the employ of a private company unofficially acting in an official manner. It's almost like hiring a sitting congressman as a part time lobbyist and we haven't even begun to talk about wally world, once again, externalizing labor costs.

I my town, at any given time, there are usually two cops in/around the local walmart. I don't mean off duty, I mean in uniform, driving city police cars. They're basically the store's free security guards. This town will kiss the ass of any big business that will move here, and they'll ignore and/or force out smaller self owned businesses.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#92 dohdough

dohdough

    Sum Dum Guy

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:28 PM

I my town, at any given time, there are usually two cops in/around the local walmart. I don't mean off duty, I mean in uniform, driving city police cars. They're basically the store's free security guards. This town will kiss the ass of any big business that will move here, and they'll ignore and/or force out smaller self owned businesses.

That's even more fucked. That kind of shit doesn't fly in MA...or at least in the places that would need that type of security. If you want cops stationed at your store, you have to pay the city/town.

#93 Clak

Clak

    Made of star stuff.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:47 PM

They may pay for all I know, I seriously doubt it though. They also have police regularly patrolling around this fairly new outdoor mall they built. Their has been a real push in recent years to sort of put us on the map so to speak. So any time any big chain wants to move to town, they roll out the red carpet and get on their knees basically.

Meanwhile, the small local businesses that have been here for years suffer for it.

edit- And keep in mind, this isn't a high crime area. In fact the police around here seem bored off their asses a lot of the time.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#94 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:05 PM

If I was just mugged, that would mean the suspect is gone and all they could do is take my statement. If I was in the process of being mugged, I would hope the cop wouldn't turn the situation into a shoot out. But I find it hilarious that you think that littering should carry the same consequences as robbing a bank. Nice troll attempt though.


Exactly. As I've mentioned before in some of these types of threads, I got mugged at gun point along with my roommate at them five or so years ago.

I certainly wouldn't want the cops (if they'd been around) to start a shootout. I'd expect them to do their jobs by the law--i.e. make every attempt to subdue the suspect without using force first and only open fire as an absolute last resort to protect themselves or others if the culprit wasn't complying.

But they weren't around, but did eventually catch the guy as they got video of him (and the people he was with--driver etc.) using my credit card a couple of places and were able to have us ID him after he got arrested for another robbery. Perfect example of how police work should work.

#95 camoor

camoor

    Jams on foot fires

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:26 PM

I find it unbelievable that some people's reaction is basically "thieves get shot"

It's simply not acceptable that we have walmart security shooting and killing shoplifters in the parking lot.

#96 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

Sadly, it's not unbelievable. Far too many "eye for an eye" types out there as is, and many of them take it further and support punishments far disproportionate to the harm of the crime.

People have no compassion, can't view crime as a mistake people make, think people can never change or be rehabilitated etc. And just have a "fuck them, the decided to commit a crime" attitude. Criminals of course need to be punished. But punishments need to fit the harm done by the crime, and we need much more focus on rehabilitation rather than just being punitive, locking people up, stigmatizing them and letting them back out with almost no chance to get their lives on the right track (and actually probably be more likely to commit more crime).

#97 camoor

camoor

    Jams on foot fires

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:11 PM

Sadly, it's not unbelievable. Far too many "eye for an eye" types out there as is, and many of them take it further and support punishments far disproportionate to the harm of the crime.

People have no compassion, can't view crime as a mistake people make, think people can never change or be rehabilitated etc. And just have a "fuck them, the decided to commit a crime" attitude. Criminals of course need to be punished. But punishments need to fit the harm done by the crime, and we need much more focus on rehabilitation rather than just being punitive, locking people up, stigmatizing them and letting them back out with almost no chance to get their lives on the right track (and actually probably be more likely to commit more crime).


Not to mention all the innocent bystanders, including the two kids inches away, who could have been shot by a stray bullet or run over by the woman's fleeing car. That cop made that woman's kids ophans because she stole a bag of merchandise and tried to get away.

I want to know how you explain this to two kids. There are some real heartless aholes on this thread.

#98 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:32 PM

It's funny how some folks keep ignoring the fact that these folks turned their vehichle into a deadly weapon and assulted a uniformed officer with it. They keep falling back on "Don't shoot someone just for shoplifting!" - which is reasonable. At the point the officer feared for his life (if the basic story we're getting from this is true) because the driver of the vehicle took hostile action against him, the fact that the individual was shoplifting is only tangently related to the situation. She was shot because they assulted an officer with a deadly weapon.

I swear, some folks here have reality on their ignore list.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#99 Clak

Clak

    Made of star stuff.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:05 PM

Not to mention all the innocent bystanders, including the two kids inches away, who could have been shot by a stray bullet or run over by the woman's fleeing car. That cop made that woman's kids ophans because she stole a bag of merchandise and tried to get away.

I want to know how you explain this to two kids. There are some real heartless aholes on this thread.

Not to mention, it's a great way to make children trust the police, ya know. I'm sure those kids will grow up believing that the police are all noble and shit, yeah.

What exactly was accomplished again?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#100 GBAstar

GBAstar

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:17 PM

Not to mention, it's a great way to make children trust the police, ya know. I'm sure those kids will grow up believing that the police are all noble and shit, yeah.

What exactly was accomplished again?


Wait so it was a police officer that shot that lady? For the first 90 or so posts I thought it was just a walmart security officer?

Maybe the little kids will grow up wondering why mommy's friends were such great people and why they let her bleed out in car instead of taking her to the hospital

#101 IRHari

IRHari

Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:38 PM

It's funny how some folks keep ignoring the fact that these folks turned their vehichle into a deadly weapon and assulted a uniformed officer with it. They keep falling back on "Don't shoot someone just for shoplifting!" - which is reasonable. At the point the officer feared for his life (if the basic story we're getting from this is true) because the driver of the vehicle took hostile action against him, the fact that the individual was shoplifting is only tangently related to the situation. She was shot because they assulted an officer with a deadly weapon.

I swear, some folks here have reality on their ignore list.


Yeah if there is a self-defense argument made it'll probably hinge on the car.
"People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." -Bill Clinton

#102 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:50 PM

Okay you bleeding heart liberals. We are taught from a young age you break the law you face whatever consequences for your actions.


Methinks you don't understand the law very well.
Posted Image

#103 camoor

camoor

    Jams on foot fires

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:55 AM

Wait so it was a police officer that shot that lady? For the first 90 or so posts I thought it was just a walmart security officer?


It was an off-duty cop who was moonlighting as a Walmart security officer.

Maybe the little kids will grow up wondering why mommy's friends were such great people and why they let her bleed out in car instead of taking her to the hospital


That crosses a line. Those kids were traumatized and victimized - and I find your gloating to be very ugly and mean-spirited.

The women did not show good judgement to be sure, but they did try to save their friend once they realized the gravity of the situation:

Despite the shooting, the women fled but eventually they stopped at The Worthington at the Beltway apartments in the 1300 block of Greens Parkway.
Paramedics from the Houston Fire Department arrived to try and save Frey, but she was pronounced dead at the scene.


http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2EtP77FKd

#104 GBAstar

GBAstar

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:11 AM

It was an off-duty cop who was moonlighting as a Walmart security officer.



That crosses a line. Those kids were traumatized and victimized - and I find your gloating to be very ugly and mean-spirited.

The women did not show good judgement to be sure, but they did try to save their friend once they realized the gravity of the situation:



http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2EtP77FKd


Again the kids in the car weren't the kids of the deceased. You made that mistake when you created the thread... why are you making it again?

And how exactly did the girls try and save their friend?

#105 cochesecochese

cochesecochese

    corrompido e imoral

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:53 PM

There are a few of us poor or formerly poor folks here, but the only police box I can think of is in Downtown Crossing?


South Bay center between Stoppies and Old Navy. They've got a patrol car in the lot 24/7 too. In regards to your other post, I believe (but possibly erroneously) that the landlord of that particular plaza pays for this service.

Cops are public servants and private companies should not be able to use public resources like that in an unofficial capacity for official matters. <insert monopoly on violence libertarian talk>

I'm not talking about an off-duty officer in civvies happening upon a crime, but someone in the employ of a private company unofficially acting in an official manner. It's almost like hiring a sitting congressman as a part time lobbyist and we haven't even begun to talk about wally world, once again, externalizing labor costs.


Exactly.

Campbell should not have been wearing his county uniform if he was on Wal-Mart's (or a subcontracted security firm's) clock. That's a no-no. If he had been responding to a call while on-duty for the county this wouldn't be an issue.

Any LP training course worth it's salt is going to tell you to avoid violence unless absolutely necessary and only use it in self defense NOT to subdue a suspect. Furthermore, decent LP training is also going to tell you that if a perp leaves the store you do NOT follow them - there could be literally anything waiting for you in the parking lot. This is just common sense in LP and most (though clearly not all) chains follow rules like these.

The situation could have and should have come to an end when she was first spotted in the store. It could have and should have come to an end when she was confronted at the door. Wal-Mart should have had reasonable LP policy in place and Campbell never should have even followed the shoplifter into the parking lot.

Clearly someone at Wal-Mart (either store, regional or corporate level) has dropped the ball by not making this clear. My guess is it's at the corporate level given we're seeing this event in Houston, Bob's linked story to the manager confronting a suspect in Arizona, as well as the Black Friday death in Georgia. This is systematic.

Edited by cochesecochese, 13 December 2012 - 01:15 PM.

this signature is an illusion and is a trap devised by satan. go ahead dauntlessly! make rapid progress!


#106 Blaster man

Blaster man

Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:33 PM

Wow I thought Iran's fundamentalist government was bad. They cut off your hand. Apparently in the US you get the death penalty for petty theft.

#107 camoor

camoor

    Jams on foot fires

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:37 PM

Again the kids in the car weren't the kids of the deceased. You made that mistake when you created the thread... why are you making it again?

And how exactly did the girls try and save their friend?


The kids don't need to be her kids to be traumatized by seeing a police officer shoot and kill a woman point blank in the neck and then see her bleed out all the way home.

And someone obviously called the paramedics to the apartment.

Show some common sense.

#108 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:43 PM

Cambell should not have been wearing his county uniform if he was on Wal-Mart's (or a subcontracted security firm's) clock. That's a no-no.


This isn't entierly correct - it varies. I don't know if there are any individual state-wide laws that restrict or allow this specifically - as far as I know, it it up to the individual organization's rules (Local City or County, typically as allowed by the Chief of Police or County Sheriff) regarding the matter.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#109 DurbanBrown

DurbanBrown

    to the MOON

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:43 PM

cant say she deserved this, but if i found her in my house shed be just as dead...

Zombies-Sig.jpg

last.fm: shroomer1999                                                                  Designed By Lilchiji


#110 irideabike

irideabike

Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:44 PM

Wow I thought Iran's fundamentalist government was bad. They cut off your hand. Apparently in the US you get the death penalty for petty theft.

Clearly that is what happened.

There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

Madden 13 SB Champ in the CAG gentleman's league.


#111 dohdough

dohdough

    Sum Dum Guy

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:23 PM

South Bay center between Stoppies and Old Navy. They've got a patrol car in the lot 24/7 too. In regards to your other post, I believe (but possibly erroneously) that the landlord of that particular plaza pays for this service.

Never realized there was one there. I just figured they had cops patrolling it constantly. Guess I won't be giving my friend driving lessons there...haha.

Exactly.

Campbell should not have been wearing his county uniform if he was on Wal-Mart's (or a subcontracted security firm's) clock. That's a no-no. If he had been responding to a call while on-duty for the county this wouldn't be an issue.

Any LP training course worth it's salt is going to tell you to avoid violence unless absolutely necessary and only use it in self defense NOT to subdue a suspect. Furthermore, decent LP training is also going to tell you that if a perp leaves the store you do NOT follow them - there could be literally anything waiting for you in the parking lot. This is just common sense in LP and most (though clearly not all) chains follow rules like these.

The situation could have and should have come to an end when she was first spotted in the store. It could have and should have come to an end when she was confronted at the door. Wal-Mart should have had reasonable LP policy in place and Campbell never should have even followed the shoplifter into the parking lot.

Clearly someone at Wal-Mart (either store, regional or corporate level) has dropped the ball by not making this clear. My guess is it's at the corporate level given we're seeing this event in Houston, Bob's linked story to the manager confronting a suspect in Arizona, as well as the Black Friday death in Georgia. This is systematic.

I've worked a few jobs that deal with large sums of cash and retail and it's SOP in training that you comply if they rob you cause it's not worth your life(or lawsuit for them) and don't follow them any further than right outside the door.

But you're absolutely right that there's something going on where those protocols are not being followed.

#112 Clak

Clak

    Made of star stuff.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:50 PM

Wow I thought Iran's fundamentalist government was bad. They cut off your hand. Apparently in the US you get the death penalty for petty theft.

Good point actually. We often think punishments in some of those countries are severe, but there are ignorant dumbasses here who are actually advocating for much harsher punishment, despite them not realizing it (they're ignorant dumbasses after all).
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#113 Blaster man

Blaster man

Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:02 PM

Good point actually. We often think punishments in some of those countries are severe, but there are ignorant dumbasses here who are actually advocating for much harsher punishment, despite them not realizing it (they're ignorant dumbasses after all).


The truth is, you don't chase someone into a parking lot then stand in front of the car without some kind of idea that you're going to do something. So this wasn't the "death penalty" but it's definitely killing someone for theft. This wasn't self defense. She drove off and died by her apartment complex. If she drove off how the hell was this self defense? He had time to open his holster, pull out his gun, shoot her, AND avoid being hit by the car all before she drove away? If you're in your car and about to drive...you can drive away pretty quickly. My guess is, he jumped in front of her car, pulled his gun out, pointed it at her head, and she got scared shitless, put the car into drive, he stepped out of the way, waited for her window to be next to him and shot in at her "in self defense". But I'd REALLY like to see the video of this incident. I simply don't see how this was anything but intentional killing for theft.

So let me say it again, IT IS NOT OKAY TO SHOOT SOMEONE FOR THEFT.

Edited by Blaster man, 13 December 2012 - 05:26 PM.


#114 irideabike

irideabike

Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:53 PM

I guess it's a good thing no one got shot for stealing then.

There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

Madden 13 SB Champ in the CAG gentleman's league.


#115 camoor

camoor

    Jams on foot fires

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:10 PM

I guess it's a good thing no one got shot for stealing then.


Someone got shot because a Walmart policeman escalated a pickpocketing incident into a shooting death.

#116 GBAstar

GBAstar

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

Someone got shot because a Walmart policeman escalated a pickpocketing incident into a shooting death.


some people would think that the group of thieves that trespassed, stole, assaulted the officer fled on foot, got in to a car and then drove off while the officer was between the car and the door escalated the situation...

...but that's just some people

#117 camoor

camoor

    Jams on foot fires

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

some people would think that the group of thieves that trespassed, stole, assaulted the officer fled on foot,


It should have ended here

got in to a car and then drove off while the officer was between the car and the door escalated the situation...

...but that's just some people


This is the problem. I don't expect dumb criminals to follow the law, and the world is full of dumb criminals. However it's completely reckless to allow shop cops to unnecessarily put themselves directly in harms way and threaten lethal force over a petty crime such as shoplifting. Not only can the cop or perpetrator end up dead, it also endangers innocent bystanders who could be hit by a stray bullet or fleeing car.

There will be more dumb criminals determined to flee the scene. Something must be done so that future Walmart cops think twice before going Punisher on shoplifters. There are better ways to do LP then lethal parking lot showdowns.

#118 GBAstar

GBAstar

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:00 PM

It should have ended here



This is the problem. I don't expect dumb criminals to follow the law, and the world is full of dumb criminals. However it's completely reckless to allow shop cops to unnecessarily put themselves directly in harms way and threaten lethal force over a petty crime such as shoplifting. Not only can the cop or perpetrator end up dead, it also endangers innocent bystanders who could be hit by a stray bullet or fleeing car.

There will be more dumb criminals determined to flee the scene. Something must be done so that future Walmart cops think twice before going Punisher on shoplifters. There are better ways to do LP then lethal parking lot showdowns.


So a 26 year veteran on the sheriff's office doesn't get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the next time you're in a situation where you're requested to do something by a police officer you throw your fannie pack at them and run off.

My money says they chase you. There isn't an officer in the world that is not going to follow a suspect on foot after they've been assaulted; even if it is the bottom tier assault like being spit on, bumped, kicked, or hit with a purse.

It's assault on an officer and last I checked that was um.... pretty major and serious.

And incase you didn't comprehend what was written earlier the way this particular county functions is that despite being on Walmart's payroll the officer is still a police officer and allowed to act in such capacity.

#119 Blaster man

Blaster man

Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:58 PM

So a 26 year veteran on the sheriff's office doesn't get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the next time you're in a situation where you're requested to do something by a police officer you throw your fannie pack at them and run off.

My money says they chase you. There isn't an officer in the world that is not going to follow a suspect on foot after they've been assaulted; even if it is the bottom tier assault like being spit on, bumped, kicked, or hit with a purse.

It's assault on an officer and last I checked that was um.... pretty major and serious.

And incase you didn't comprehend what was written earlier the way this particular county functions is that despite being on Walmart's payroll the officer is still a police officer and allowed to act in such capacity.


And in Iran (see picture above) they cut off your right hand (and sometimes left foot) for theft. Chasing someone into a parking lot and shooting them instead of just using the images from the video to track them down isn't any better and is probably far worse. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it should be. It's legal in Singapore to cane people who overstay their tourist visa. That's the law therefore it must be right. Slavery used to be legal, therefore it must be right. Your simplistic view that the law = moral is completely wrong.

#120 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:00 PM

When you track them down and they run again, then what?
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."