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Shooting in Conn. School


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#601 RedvsBlue

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:11 PM

I don't know why people are bashing armed guards so much. It would make me feel better sending my kids to a public school knowing there is one more safety barrier put in place.


So we should go ahead and put armed guards in shopping malls, amusement parks, hospitals, parks, etc. as well? Those are all places children would/could be.

Who regulates these armed guards? State, federal, freelance? If it's state or federal, isn't that just giving the government that much more military-type power that conservatives and republicans are so concerned about gun rights being preserved to protect against in the first place?

#602 irideabike

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:22 PM

I have armed security personal in my workplace, so that doesn't bother me (to the poster before RvB).

RvB, those private sector companies/businesses that you named can and many have put armed guards/security in place. I have no problem knowing that if I go to a mall chances are they have armed security in the building, or off duty LEO's. At local hospital's in my area there are armed security officers in the building, doesn't bug me at all. Parks usually have beat cops that routinely are in the area. The only amusement parks I've been (6 Flags, Disney on both coasts) have armed security on hand.

In a school, the same people regulate the guards and training they need that regulate the rest of the school, local communities and states. The military type power already exists.
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#603 Clak

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:34 PM

Because schools shouldn't need armed guards?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

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#604 UncleBob

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:03 PM

RvB, those private sector companies/businesses that you named can and many have put armed guards/security in place. I have no problem knowing that if I go to a mall chances are they have armed security in the building, or off duty LEO's. At local hospital's in my area there are armed security officers in the building, doesn't bug me at all. Parks usually have beat cops that routinely are in the area. The only amusement parks I've been (6 Flags, Disney on both coasts) have armed security on hand.


I know some folks are completely out of touch with reality, but do they really not know that hospitals, parks, private offices, large shopping complexes and amusement parks have, for years now, had private and public armed security and law enforcement officers on premises on a regular basis?

I can't even remember the last time I went into a hospital and didn't see a command post with an armed LEO near the main entrance. And I live in the midwest.

You zeroed in on the specific case[...]

...that was given in the post directly before yours. Weird how that works.

Beyond all that, you're the one who chose to use quotation marks around the word conservative, as if you were implying something regarding the definition or application of the word.
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#605 willardhaven

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:46 PM

...that was given in the post directly before yours. Weird how that works.

Beyond all that, you're the one who chose to use quotation marks around the word conservative, as if you were implying something regarding the definition or application of the word.


So what are you even arguing? I was asserting that they're not conservative despite the fact that they are classified as such. You argued that they leaned toward Obama so they weren't conservative. I proved that your argument was not in observation of voting records and party enrollment. You then went back to "well they're not really conservative". I agree as that was my original point. What do you want from my life?
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#606 RedvsBlue

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:04 PM

I have armed security personal in my workplace, so that doesn't bother me (to the poster before RvB).

RvB, those private sector companies/businesses that you named can and many have put armed guards/security in place. I have no problem knowing that if I go to a mall chances are they have armed security in the building, or off duty LEO's. At local hospital's in my area there are armed security officers in the building, doesn't bug me at all. Parks usually have beat cops that routinely are in the area. The only amusement parks I've been (6 Flags, Disney on both coasts) have armed security on hand.

In a school, the same people regulate the guards and training they need that regulate the rest of the school, local communities and states. The military type power already exists.


I have no idea where you live but I don't think I've ever seen armed guards posted at the places I mention. I will admit there are many hospitals that have armed guards, but not all of them do. At any rate, many of the armed security you mentioned involved on/off duty police officers, who are government agents, once again begging the question, if you're increasing the number of government actors/agents in an area with guns isn't that the precise type of conduct which many conservatives/republicans point to as being the idea which the 2nd amendment is protecting from in the first place?

As for "beat cops routinely are in the area" how is that different than the protection afforded to schools. One could easily say that there are cops routinely in the area of a school at this point already, no?

#607 mrsilkunderwear

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:10 PM

I love that "conservatives" want armed guards posted in schools. You can't make this shit up.


Why do you think it is a bad idea? Some schools already have police officers on the premises like colleges and universities. I do not agree nor disagree with the idea because I am not too familiar with it.

#608 detectiveconan16

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:09 AM

Wow, saw the Daily Show segment on the ATF. I thought the USPS was fucked so much by Congress, but this takes the cake. The government can't monitor sales of dangerous weapons, have sellers keep records, or even do routine inspections. And yet, the other agencies have been given the right to regulate everything not as lethal under the sun. Kinder EGGS!

And holy Fuck! If someone get stoned and drunk, they can still buy a gun!

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#609 ID2006

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:21 AM

Wow, saw the Daily Show segment on the ATF. I thought the USPS was fucked so much by Congress, but this takes the cake. The government can't monitor sales of dangerous weapons, have sellers keep records, or even do routine inspections. And yet, the other agencies have been given the right to regulate everything not as lethal under the sun. Kinder EGGS!

And holy Fuck! If someone get stoned and drunk, they can still buy a gun!



Yeah. That was one of the better Jon Stewart segments on the Daily Show in the past few months. Usually I don't find him humorous (I do like the other people of his team, though), but that was pretty interesting.

#610 Clak

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:25 AM

Wow, saw the Daily Show segment on the ATF. I thought the USPS was fucked so much by Congress, but this takes the cake. The government can't monitor sales of dangerous weapons, have sellers keep records, or even do routine inspections. And yet, the other agencies have been given the right to regulate everything not as lethal under the sun. Kinder EGGS!

And holy Fuck! If someone get stoned and drunk, they can still buy a gun!

And thanks to the NRA and their republican lackeys, the director of the ATF now has to be confirmed by the senate. That's why there hasn't been one for years.
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#611 irideabike

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 02:48 PM

http://abclocal.go.c...york&id=8958116

State Senator Eric Adams, a former NYPD Captain, told us he's going to push for an amendment next week to exempt police officers from the high-capacity magazine ban. In his words, "You can't give more ammo to the criminals"

I love that they realize that the law will do nothing to stop criminals from getting the weapons they want even though the mags are banned and still pass it, taking the magazines away from law abiding citizens.
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#612 mykevermin

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 02:53 PM

Part of this "arms race" mentality doesn't help matters, though.

http://www.huffingto..._n_1830007.html

I'm sure most of us remember this incident - a focus on firearm training (improving aim at the very least) would certainly be more useful for officers than more bullets. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with officers with that kind of poor accuracy having more bullets.
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#613 Finger_Shocker

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:07 PM

LOL..... giving the cops more ammo then the citizens..

Well our dystopian police state society is coming pretty soon.

Last I heard in the news there was hundreds of police abuse/brutality cases

and in many parts of America, cops actually can get away with robbery on some people

#614 detectiveconan16

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:57 PM

If the cops could barely operate in a situation in a crowded city like New York, I'm supposed to believe that a "responsible gun owner" could save innocent civilians in a crisis. Life isn't a movie or video game, life is hell. I do agree that the cops could do better with more firearms training, but they may need more in other areas like unarmed combat and conflict resolution, among many things.

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#615 Clak

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:13 PM

Half the gun owners (half is being kind) in this country seem to think they're Wyatt Earp and they're going to stop the bad guys. If people with extensive firearms training still make mistakes, you think I want some random gun owner trying to be a hero? Fuuuuuck no.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

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#616 Temporaryscars

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:22 PM

Half the gun owners (half is being kind) in this country seem to think they're Wyatt Earp and they're going to stop the bad guys. If people with extensive firearms training still make mistakes, you think I want some random gun owner trying to be a hero? Fuuuuuck no.


Extensive firearms training? Most departments train just twice a year. Give me a break. I know civilians who train way more than that.

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#617 RedvsBlue

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:48 PM

You know, we're completely failing to address another aspect of these shootings which more guns or armed guards won't solve. There's the simple fact that most of these people committing these mass shootings want to die anyway. A person with nothing left to live for, actually desiring death is not going to be deterred by an armed guard.

#618 ID2006

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:54 PM

You know, we're completely failing to address another aspect of these shootings which more guns or armed guards won't solve. There's the simple fact that most of these people committing these mass shootings want to die anyway. A person with nothing left to live for, actually desiring death is not going to be deterred by an armed guard.


Well, mass shootings shouldn't be the emphasis of new legislature anyway. Much of the gun violence is not from mass shootings. Mass shootings get disproportionate attention, which would be fine as a forceful reminder of the actual problems if people would step back and view gun violence as a whole instead of focusing on these much rarer instances.

#619 RedvsBlue

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:21 AM

Well, mass shootings shouldn't be the emphasis of new legislature anyway. Much of the gun violence is not from mass shootings. Mass shootings get disproportionate attention, which would be fine as a forceful reminder of the actual problems if people would step back and view gun violence as a whole instead of focusing on these much rarer instances.


The same disproportionate attention that the news media gives to it creating in the minds of troubled individuals that they can become infamous by staging their own mass shooting...

#620 cancerman1120

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:31 AM

I hope this becomes a regular media focus. Not that I think it necessarily means much but rather I would be interested in knowing how often these things happen.

Gun Show Shootings: At Least 5 Hurt In Accidental Incidents In Ohio, Indiana, North Carolina

http://www.huffingto..._n_2513057.html

"At the Dixie Gun and Knife Show in Raleigh, a 12-gauge shotgun discharged as its owner unzipped its case for a law enforcement officer to check at a security entrance, injuring three people, state Agriculture Department spokesman Brian Long said.

Two bystanders were hit by shotgun pellets and taken to a hospital. A retired deputy sheriff suffered a slight hand injury.

The shotgun's owner, 36-year-old Gary Lynn Wilson, brought the weapon to the show to find a private buyer, Long said. Sheriff Donnie Harrison said that it was too early to know whether Wilson might be charged but that it appeared to be an accident."

Accident or not you show up with a loaded gun and someone gets shot I think some type of endangerment charge needs to be levied. If we want to be serious about responsible gun ownership people who mess up like this should be charged.

#621 detectiveconan16

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:07 PM

You can't, anything that gives us any liability regarding guns is a violation of the second amendment, according to the NRA. Some idiot's going to argue that it could be an accident, or that the gun discharged because of that out of control Sheriff who decided to do a gun inspection instead of leaving that "responsible gun owner" alone.

If people can't even do common sense things like not bringing a loaded gun to a convention, or keep firearms out of schools, it makes one wonder if they even deserve to complain that such laws violates their rights.

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#622 Msut77

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:11 PM

That is the rub, people are responsible gun owners until they aren't.

People are good guys with guns until they aren't.
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#623 Knoell

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:37 PM

That is the rub, people are responsible gun owners until they aren't.

People are good guys with guns until they aren't.


Really? This is very revealing of you guys. It's pretty scary actually.

#624 cancerman1120

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

Really? This is very revealing of you guys. It's pretty scary actually.


And exactly what does it reveal?

#625 IRHari

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

I'd think it'd be a little scary for multiple people to be shot during gun appreciation day events, I mean these are supposed to be the proud responsible gun owners.
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#626 mykevermin

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:12 PM

:rofl: :applause: at IRHari's updated location.
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#627 Clak

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:18 PM

Bill Maher made a good point on the last episode of Real Time, why are people so proud to be gun owners? What is it about owning a gun that should make one proud? If you feel like you need one to be safe, is that something to be proud of? Wouldn't it make a hell of a lot more sense to be proud that you live in a place where you don't feel the need to be armed?

It seems to me that most gun owners are proud simply because they feel like they're sticking it to "the gubment" in some small way. I just don't get it.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#628 Finger_Shocker

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:35 PM

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=17536625

Hey don't forget about this case.... making your home safer by one less skunk at a time...

#629 The Crotch

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:10 PM

And exactly what does it reveal?

Way I see it, Knoell reads "People are good guys with guns until they aren't." as "People are terrible and we always need outside protection from ourselves and each-other." An admission of statist something something something.

Now, my reading of it would be, "The talking point of 'good guy with a gun' vs 'bad guy with a gun' (or, if you prefer, 'criminal' and 'non-criminal') is naive and childish and you can't divide the country's population into those two camps.

You idiots."

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#630 Knoell

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:35 PM

Way I see it, Knoell reads "People are good guys with guns until they aren't." as "People are terrible and we always need outside protection from ourselves and each-other." An admission of statist something something something.

Now, my reading of it would be, "The talking point of 'good guy with a gun' vs 'bad guy with a gun' (or, if you prefer, 'criminal' and 'non-criminal') is naive and childish and you can't divide the country's population into those two camps.

You idiots."


You can't possibly give the government the power to predetermine that everyone will be a criminal with ANYTHING in the world.

Want to buy a saw? How do we know you won't be chopping somebody up later? Hmmm, we are going to have to look into this.

Want to buy a car? Wellll you may end up killing someone so let's investigate whether you are worthy.

Want to buy a set of knives? Well, you may stab someone, so let the government cut your meat for you.

The problem is that you guys know nothing about guns, and yet you see the big scary black military looking assault rifle and think OMG! that thing is dangerous! Let's ban it. Yet you don't even look into the statistics of gun violence in America. It clearly points to pistols being the gun with the most blood on it (four times over), and you guys act like you won't try and disarm them next. You also act as if you won't be flipping out when a psycho walks into a school with a pistol. You guys are looking for solutions that will minimize casualties rather than protecting our children. It is a ridiculous way to think.

There are millions upon millions of guns in the US. There is not a gun violence epidemic. Just look at the statistics, and stop having knee jerk reactions to tragedies. Stop being the paranoid freaks you portray gun owners to be and live your lives. I love how home invasions where gun owners protect themselves are outliers but these school shootings are the norm. Fucking BS.