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Shooting in Conn. School


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#781 GBAstar

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:49 PM

Yeah, I totally meant that it happens every day now.


The only determining factor as to why people commit crimes with guns is because their victims don't have guns, you say? And then you wonder why that source isn't taken seriously?


So you are disputing the information in that article or how it is presented?

I would like you to point out any information in that article that is not accurate.

Go ahead.

And when you can't find anything to pick apart you can just fall back on "Duh study iz racist"; by now it is expected

#782 dohdough

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:19 PM

So you are disputing the information in that article or how it is presented?

I would like you to point out any information in that article that is not accurate.

Go ahead.

And when you can't find anything to pick apart you can just fall back on "Duh study iz racist"; by now it is expected

Strawman much? My post was three whole sentences and hard to misinterpret. But since you're the one that brought up race first, aren't you the one actually guilty of "race-baiting" here?

#783 GBAstar

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:24 PM

Strawman much? My post was three whole sentences and hard to misinterpret. But since you're the one that brought up race first, aren't you the one actually guilty of "race-baiting" here?


Yes so to elaborate on your three sentences the data is not factual because it is used to strengthen the arguments of members of the NRA (to which I don't belong) and gun owners (to which I'm not) who happen to believe that the solution to gun violence is arming more citizens (which I don't agree with).

But because that is how the data "may" be used then it is not no longer factual?

reeeallly?

So if data supports your agenda then it is factual?

Edit: Nice to have you back by the way. I'll try to keep the race baiting to a minimum.

#784 dohdough

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:02 PM

Yes so to elaborate on your three sentences the data is not factual because it is used to strengthen the arguments of members of the NRA (to which I don't belong) and gun owners (to which I'm not) who happen to believe that the solution to gun violence is arming more citizens (which I don't agree with).

But because that is how the data "may" be used then it is not no longer factual?

reeeallly?

So if data supports your agenda then it is factual?

Edit: Nice to have you back by the way. I'll try to keep the race baiting to a minimum.


Maybe you should've included the first paragraph instead of shotgunning facts? Cause instead of doing so, you're implying the exact opposite of what you just said especially in the context of quoting knoell.

Either way, focusing on guns aspect of crimes take attention away from focusing on what causes crime to begin with...and it has nothing to do with how armed the populace is or isn't, muchless incarceration being a deterrent.

And yes, how one uses facts is important. I've actually read a lot of what the site has to say and some of it is highly questionable and even if I accept your little snippet, which I do, facts by themselves are meaningless. There's obviously so much more to it that it's disingenuous and inaccurate to solely use what that site is selling as definitive. That's the point.

#785 cancerman1120

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:24 PM

Sigh...

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#786 Clak

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

I hate this state sometimes...
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#787 cancerman1120

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:44 PM

Nice short segment with Adam Sessler (personal favorite video game journalist/host REV3, G4TV, TechTV) on foxnews live discussing video games and violence.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=CqJUcip6j0Y

#788 detectiveconan16

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:00 PM

So instead of victimizing responsible gun owners, we must go after responsible game players...

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#789 Knoell

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:22 PM

Yeah, I totally meant that it happens every day now.


The only determining factor as to why people commit crimes with guns is because their victims don't have guns, you say? And then you wonder why that source isn't taken seriously?


What? You just stated something that would cause many misinformed people to be up in arms. I am asking you to prove what you stated. Of course you won't though.

No he isn't saying the only determing factor as to why people commit crimes with guns is because their victims don't have guns. He is saying that you guys do not pay attention to the fact that having a gun has saved many lives but is a unnoticed statistic.

Funny how the story of Mr. Sailor shooting someone because he was overly aggressive on his property, causes you to be up in arms and make claims that "this is happening in increased frequency", yet you discard statistics that show having a gun for personal protection has protected many, many people from harm.

#790 Knoell

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:25 PM

So instead of victimizing responsible gun owners, we must go after responsible game players...


I think your side agrees with the part about video games causing these things buddy. I certainly don't believe either about guns or games.

#791 detectiveconan16

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:36 PM

NRA is saying don't blame responsible gun owners and them for the gun violence that goes on everyday. I shouldn't blame them for fucking with the regulatory agencies responsible with making sure guns don't get into the wrong hands. The ATF is a joke, but we have to remember why they are.

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#792 Clak

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:12 AM

Bit of a philosophical question here. If a gun owner takes no steps to keep their guns from being used in crimes, are they a responsible gun owner? Was Nancy Lanza?
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#793 mykevermin

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:39 AM

Bit of a philosophical question here. If a gun owner takes no steps to keep their guns from being used in crimes, are they a responsible gun owner? Was Nancy Lanza?


None of the gun nuts in this thread have the dignity to answer that question. They'd rather repeat the tropes from the NRA See N' Say.

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#794 Spokker

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:49 AM

This guy brought up a great point about the Koreans who defended their stores with firearms during the Los Angeles Riots.

He is an immigrant and it is interesting to see him comment as both a citizen who is now in the country and as someone who was once outside of the nation looking in.



#795 Clak

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:02 AM

I just want "responsible gun owner" defined. A lot of gun owners bitch about keeping their guns locked up, but then you get idiots who leave them within easy reach of their kids too, so which is it? Is it your right to leave them out however you want with no regard to who might get them, or do you have a responsibility to keep them safe from others getting them?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

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#796 Knoell

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:29 AM

None of the gun nuts in this thread have the dignity to answer that question. They'd rather repeat the tropes from the NRA See N' Say.

WEN GONZ R OWTLAW'D...


Why am I a gun nut again? I'd be glad to answer that when I get home

#797 The Crotch

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:00 AM

Why am I a gun nut again?

Why do I hate/fear gun owners again?

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#798 cancerman1120

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:15 AM

This guy brought up a great point about the Koreans who defended their stores with firearms during the Los Angeles Riots.

He is an immigrant and it is interesting to see him comment as both a citizen who is now in the country and as someone who was once outside of the nation looking in.


His first 2-3 minutes were well done. After that I started to tune him out really. The thing I disagree with his notion that "societal decay" as the reason for so many more mass shootings. What does that even mean? That seem like conservative double speak you get from Glen Beck and his ilk who think life was so much grander in the 40s and 50s. If anything, we as a nation have MORE freedom now then 50-60 years ago. We are actually taxed less, women and minorities are treated more equally, and gay rights are at the forefront of the civil rights push. But to some all those things are considered moral decay. The worst school massacre occurred in 1927. There are also countless cases of other mass shooting in US history. It also does not explain why the 90s had more than the 2000s. If we are decaying would not that number continue to rise? This is the reality. Some people are messed up. You give that person a gun and it is easier for them to kill people. That should not mean everyone else should not be allowed to own guns but lets be honest that 300 million guns IS a problem. When you make them so ubiquitous you run the risk of the wrong people obtaining them.

#799 GBAstar

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:01 AM

Bit of a philosophical question here. If a gun owner takes no steps to keep their guns from being used in crimes, are they a responsible gun owner? Was Nancy Lanza?


It should be expected for a gun own to keep his firearms secure (in a safe) and report them as soon as they are missing. That means checking on them at least weekly. I don't think that is unreasonable.

#800 GBAstar

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:03 AM

That should not mean everyone else should not be allowed to own guns but lets be honest that 300 million guns IS a problem. When you make them so ubiquitous you run the risk of the wrong people obtaining them.


Let's be honest, if we only have 1,000 guns in the United States we'd still run the risk of the wrong people obtaining them.

Outside of a few states/cities the penalty for illegally owning or obtaining a gun is not harsh enough and not enforced thoroughly enough.

#801 mykevermin

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

Why am I a gun nut again? I'd be glad to answer that when I get home


In this discussion, I've seen zero willingness to consider *any* form of gun control from those on the right. In many cases, this also comes in the form of the willingness to entertain even any *debate* on the matter. Arguments are met with NRA talking points and slippery slope insanity of the "we need to defeat the government when the war comes" sort.

Rigid, absolute, ideological inflexibility = nut. Not the number or type of firearms you possess.
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#802 Mad39er

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:52 PM

In this discussion, I've seen zero willingness to consider *any* form of gun control from those on the right. In many cases, this also comes in the form of the willingness to entertain even any *debate* on the matter. Arguments are met with NRA talking points and slippery slope insanity of the "we need to defeat the government when the war comes" sort.

Rigid, absolute, ideological inflexibility = nut. Not the number or type of firearms you possess.

The problem with your premise is that there is the intention from the Liberal Dems to compromise. Firearms and the Second amendment have been under attack since the inception and the latest rounds of proposed legislature is absolute banning of guns. This is where the conversation is started and why Reps refuse to budge because you're not talking about fixing what's wrong with the system, as said constantly by Reps over and over and over again. It's not that they aren't acknowledging that there is a problem, they're actually pointing out the way to fix them but all the left is bombarded with is Gabby Giffords being shamefully paraded in front of the media, Obama hiding behind a wall of kids, how the history books never mention political parties, how Abraham Lincoln was a Republican and Democrats were the Confederates in the South that fought to keep slaves.

You say the Right refuses to compromise and rightly so, they've been compromising for many years to the point where the negotiations START at gun confiscation and criminalization. The perfect example of tyrannical government in the States is the Battle for Athens, Georgia, where Democrats committed rigged elections and were ousted by WW2 Veterans who could not take it any more.

The reason why Reps and the Right won't compromise is because you take gun control models from New York City, Chicago and California, you legislate and sow in propaganda into the proposals of these bills and motions of support that later get unleashed by the media. That's largely a despicable practice outright that can't be supported. I don't see why you have a problem with people opposing things that are not truthful, because that's what's happening despite all the media ignoring the reality of whats going on.
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#803 Strell

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:03 PM

I liked the old days when Republicans were more for abusing the rights of women and gays and failing to see the irony. You know, like two months ago. Ah, those were the times.

Gun Control is like their collective clitoris. You even mention it and they orgasm a billion times over.


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#804 RedvsBlue

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

I liked the old days when Republicans were more for abusing the rights of women and gays and failing to see the irony. You know, like two months ago. Ah, those were the times.

Gun Control is like their collective clitoris. You even mention it and they orgasm a billion times over.


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#805 Strell

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:19 PM

Years ago I remember hearing about this idea that a bunch of really rich people were going to buy a decommissioned military...something. It was like a missile launching silo platform out in the ocean. I can't remember the specifics exactly. The idea though was that these people would buy it and found their own country, complete with laws and a system of government and so forth. It was also parodied in the short-lived MTV animated series Undergrads.

The whole joke of the scenario was that you could declare yourself exempt from copyright laws, so it would become a data sharing heaven for the torrenting crowd. So really it was just an excuse to get free porn and anime and games. I imagine that this fell through given the rise of things like The Pirate Bay and other numerous channels to get free stuff.

At any rate, sometimes I wish I could do that and take a few choice individuals with me just to get away from the rest of the idiots. I'd settle for a tiny teeny place where we just sat around basking in the sun and wondering why the rest of the world was still this stupid.


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#806 Clak

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:33 PM

I wonder sometimes about the folks who play the Bioshock games, if the more conservative among them realize the game is shitting on them.
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#807 irideabike

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

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#808 mykevermin

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

the latest rounds of proposed legislature is absolute banning of guns.


Well, okay, here's why Knoell was wondering why he's labeled a "gun nut." This is the other side of the "gun nut" premise - the person with absolutely no mental basis in reality. When compared to someone who legitimately believes that the government is going to take everyone's guns away, Knoell, I can totally see why you'd be incredulous at being called a "nut." You're not some Alex Jones/World Net Daily dumbfuck, yes, so in that sense you shouldn't be lumped in the same category as Randy Weaver up here.

I wonder sometimes about the folks who play the Bioshock games, if the more conservative among them realize the game is shitting on them.


The second game's plot felt like it was a poorly written apology letter to angry "objectivists." The plot was like "no, there are problems with communism, too! here, see! we'll make the collectivist the villain!"

...and add multiplayer, I suppose. Yech. Anyway, yes, yes, Bioshock 1 was a very thinly disguised attempt to skewer Randian thought, but the sequel went into "oh, shit we must be 'fair and balanced'" overdrive, and the game was pretty uninspired as a result.
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#809 dohdough

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:38 PM

It should be expected for a gun own to keep his firearms secure (in a safe) and report them as soon as they are missing. That means checking on them at least weekly. I don't think that is unreasonable.


I'm down with the first two and have mentioned those in the past, but the last one? Are you some kind of fascist gun grabber or something?:lol:

You know that by saying those things, you're throwing your lot in with "liebruls that want to ban guns" in the eyes of people that think any regulation is bad, right?

#810 dohdough

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:49 PM

I wonder sometimes about the folks who play the Bioshock games, if the more conservative among them realize the game is shitting on them.

You realize that some people think that Colbert is some sort of meta comedy show and isn't satire, right?

Well, okay, here's why Knoell was wondering why he's labeled a "gun nut." This is the other side of the "gun nut" premise - the person with absolutely no mental basis in reality. When compared to someone who legitimately believes that the government is going to take everyone's guns away, Knoell, I can totally see why you'd be incredulous at being called a "nut." You're not some Alex Jones/World Net Daily dumbfuck, yes, so in that sense you shouldn't be lumped in the same category as Randy Weaver up here.

Honestly, if I seriously thought that the US government was going to ban all guns and confiscate them, I would be all up in that shit with the gun nuts too, but it is so far from reality that you'd have some sort of paranoia to the extent of being an actual clinical mental health issue.

The second game's plot felt like it was a poorly written apology letter to angry "objectivists." The plot was like "no, there are problems with communism, too! here, see! we'll make the collectivist the villain!"

...and add multiplayer, I suppose. Yech. Anyway, yes, yes, Bioshock 1 was a very thinly disguised attempt to skewer Randian thought, but the sequel went into "oh, shit we must be 'fair and balanced'" overdrive, and the game was pretty uninspired as a result.

Don't forget that it was also done by a different studio. Not as fun either.