Shooting in Conn. School

I'm heavily pro-gun, but even I'm starting to feel like something's got to change. It sounds like these were murders by handgun, which is going to be near impossible to control more. Had it been an assualt rifle like the shooting 2hrs north of me in Portland, OR, then it's easier to get on board with that ban. Chris Rock may have been wiser than we understood when he suggested bullets should cost hundreds of dollars. Then I suppose you just have a bunch of rich people shooting up schools and malls.

Father of 3, drove by three elementary schools as part of my morning commute, and the idea of this being in my son's school couldn't leave my head.

Horrible, horrible news.
 
This post on reddit summarizes my thoughts on the matter:

Okay, I'm going to say one thing about this absolutely sickening day. It's bound to offend the delicate sensibilities of some people here, but whatever. Let's do this.
Every time something like this happens, people of certain political persuasions pre-empt the gun control discussion by saying stuff like "Don't politicize this tragedy!" and "Guns don't kill people, people kill people!"
Frankly, however, I've had enough of that. It's impossible to end the perverse, unnatural gun culture that has pervaded this country since its very birth, but it's not hard to finally say enough is enough and legislate. There needs to be the tightest regulations possible on gun purchases, particularly assault weapons.

The gun lobby will fight anything and everything done in reaction to this, if any action is undertaken federally. But if there is one sector of our society that I feel entirely comfortable saying needs to be regulated to high heaven, this must be it, because people are dying. And now kids are. There are common sense laws on gun ownership in most westernized countries. When will we join them? How many people have to die all for a guy's right to act macho?

Now's about the time that someone in the back of the room shouts about their right to defend themselves. And while that sounds nice in a text box in a comment section, let's get real here. You're not trying to protect your family by claiming the right to lug around your AR-15. You're taking pictures of yourself wearing camo, holding a completely unnecessarily powerful weapon for a civilian to have, and putting them on Facebook to get some precious Likes. You're not protecting yourself. You're compensating for something.
Click to expand...
 
I think it's time to consider requiring all guns to be registered. I know the militia mouthbreathers will scream and yell, but at this point, I'm more worried about some fuckslap shooting up my kid's school, or a local mall, than I am about our government imposing martial law and establishing a dictatorship. I would have no problem with the government knowing what I legally own. That way if your firearm is stolen or missing, and you didn't report it, you also have significant responsibility in these situations.
 
[quote name='Purple Flames']This post on reddit summarizes my thoughts on the matter:[/QUOTE]

While I disagree with the idea of *never* discussing the policies leading up to an event like this, I think it's entirely reasonable to stick with a cooling-off time so that decisions and discussions aren't based off emotion.
 
[quote name='berzirk']I think it's time to consider requiring all guns to be registered. I know the militia mouthbreathers will scream and yell, but at this point, I'm more worried about some fuckslap shooting up my kid's school, or a local mall, than I am about our government imposing martial law and establishing a dictatorship. I would have no problem with the government knowing what I legally own. That way if your firearm is stolen or missing, and you didn't report it, you also have significant responsibility in these situations.[/QUOTE]
This is what I've been saying for years.
 
[quote name='dohdough']This is what I've been saying for years.[/QUOTE]

I thought it was illegal to have an unregistered handgun. Is that not true? or does it vary state to state?
 
The cooling off time is ultimately exactly why we finally need regulation. Gulliani was just on CNN talking about this yesterday.
Once more with the assumption that when someone is determined to mass murder people (paraphrasing him here) "Whether its with knives or poison they'll find a way".
Total BS
All these rampages prove it comes down to ease of use.

Ya know when we did have people poisoning Tylenol in the past , we made it harder for them to accomplish it. We put in the safety features so that if your tylenol was messed with , you'd at least know. We certainly didnt make it "impossible" for someone "determined" to poison people to be able to accomplish it , but the small deterrent was enough.
The determination sort of wears off when it isnt as easy as point and click
 
We should have a one pull one bullet law. It would make every gun have the same firing rate of a revolver. I've never shot a gun before but wouldn't the index finger be tired by the tenth or so bullet? Even if the index finger doesn't tired easily, I think the delay of having to pull the trigger every time would help.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']I thought it was illegal to have an unregistered handgun. Is that not true? or does it vary state to state?[/QUOTE]

It might vary by state, but the only registration happens when you buy a firearm through a business. For example, I legally purchased a shotgun from the chain Big 5. They call in to the state, run a background check, I get fingerprinted, fill out some forms, about 15-20 minutes later, I walk out the door with a shotty. Now, if I sell that to somebody that I believe is mentally healthy and over the age of 21, their ownership is unregistered, not required to be registered, and they can sell it again themselves.

If you have a concealed handgun, every state requires a permit for that, so in that sense, your right to carry concealed is registered, but the government would have no idea WHAT you were legally carrying. The only other form of "registration" is if you have a class 3 firearm (I think that's what it's called). That means things like fully auto weapons, silencers, short barralled shotguns. Then you need to pay a couple hundred bucks and get a "tax stamp" which says you can legally own that component or firearem.

Even more esoteric, some weapons that are very old are considered antiques, even if they still fire, so those are not treated the same as firearms. There are lots of laws, I would just argue that many are the "wrong" laws.
 
Any call for gun control legislation presumes these acts are committed with guns obtained legally. That may or may not be the case. As the facts trickle in it's obvious this was premeditated as the man killed one of his family members then proceeded to drive all the way from New Jersey to Connecticut to bust into the school and start shooting up the place. Hard to imagine that someone who was hell bent on doing this wouldn't have gotten his hands on a gun one way or another.

Drugs are illegal but anyone who wants them can get them without much effort.
 
[quote name='winterice']We should have a one pull one bullet law. It would make every gun have the same firing rate of a revolver. I've never shot a gun before but wouldn't the index finger be tired by the tenth or so bullet? Even if the index finger doesn't tired easily, I think the delay of having to pull the trigger every time would help.[/QUOTE]

That's called a semi-automatic weapon, and those are what most guns available to the public are. 10 shots could happen very fast, and if your finger got tired after 10 shots, then it's probably time to put down the videogame controller because that's too taxing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PDzE55esIE

This is obviously an extreme, but anyone who has shot a few rounds can fire very quickly.
 
[quote name='winterice']We should have a one pull one bullet law. It would make every gun have the same firing rate of a revolver. I've never shot a gun before but wouldn't the index finger be tired by the tenth or so bullet? Even if the index finger doesn't tired easily, I think the delay of having to pull the trigger every time would help.[/QUOTE]

Revolvers can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger and still considered "semi-automatic" meaning one bullet per pull. Anything more than that would be considered a select-fire automatic, meaning you can select between 1, 3, and rambo. These aren't the technical terms, but a little easier to understand.

What you're describing in regards to tiring is related to trigger pull weight and it isn't as tiring as you may think it is. I get bored after an hour of shooting, but that's because I'm spending half the time reloading mags, which is actually more exhausting.

The law of the land pretty much covers what you're saying.
 
[quote name='cancerman1120']Exactly when do dead children stop being emotional? Just asking.[/QUOTE]

Point taken.

However, at the very least, we could wait until the facts of the case are known so we don't have blowhards going off about violent rhetoric in politics or violence in entertainment that turns out to have played no role in the actual shooting, for example.
 
[quote name='Mooby']Any call for gun control legislation presumes these acts are committed with guns obtained legally. That may or may not be the case. As the facts trickle in it's obvious this was premeditated as the man killed one of his family members then proceeded to drive all the way from New Jersey to Connecticut to bust into the school and start shooting up the place. Hard to imagine that someone who was hell bent on doing this wouldn't have gotten his hands on a gun one way or another.

Drugs are illegal but anyone who wants them can get them without much effort.[/QUOTE]

There's something called the Chain of Custody. If someone along that line was negligent, then that needs to be dealt with.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Point taken.

However, at the very least, we could wait until the facts of the case are known so we don't have blowhards going off about violent rhetoric in politics or violence in entertainment that turns out to have played no role in the actual shooting, for example.[/QUOTE]

Ironically, I was watching my two youngest kids while my wife was at an appointment, my oldest was in his kindergarten classroom, and on Jim Rome, he broke from sports to talk about the shooting, and to speak on how hard it is to do a sports show and act like sports matter, when this kind of stuff breaks. It wasn't a rant on gun control, gun violence, or the second ammendment. I scanned through some other AM stations hoping to get more detailed news, and I land on Rush. He's condemning all the liberals for politicizing the shooting and using it for an agenda. fuck sake. They don't even have a body count, and that fat fucking prescription pill popping cum sponge is politicizing it, by bitching about politization? I changed it quickly back to sports talk...so I could find out what was going on factually, and not with all kinds of baggage.

Let that settle in. Sports talk was delivering the news, "NEWS" radio was fucking it in the ass.
 
[quote name='dohdough']There's something called the Chain of Custody. If someone along that line was negligent, then that needs to be dealt with.[/QUOTE]


That's not practical when you have illegal arms being shipped in and out of this country on a daily basis.
 
[quote name='berzirk']Ironically, I was watching my two youngest kids while my wife was at an appointment, my oldest was in his kindergarten classroom, and on Jim Rome, he broke from sports to talk about the shooting, and to speak on how hard it is to do a sports show and act like sports matter, when this kind of stuff breaks. It wasn't a rant on gun control, gun violence, or the second ammendment. I scanned through some other AM stations hoping to get more detailed news, and I land on Rush. He's condemning all the liberals for politicizing the shooting and using it for an agenda. fuck sake. They don't even have a body count, and that fat fucking prescription pill popping cum sponge is politicizing it, by bitching about politization? I changed it quickly back to sports talk...so I could find out what was going on factually, and not with all kinds of baggage.

Let that settle in. Sports talk was delivering the news, "NEWS" radio was fucking it in the ass.[/QUOTE]

That's what you get for thinking Rush is "News Radio". =D
 
[quote name='Mooby']That's not practical when you have illegal arms being shipped in and out of this country on a daily basis.[/QUOTE]

No, I think that's precisely covered by doh's statement. Whether it's irresponsibly sending guns to Mexican drug cartels by Bush and Obama, or someone leaving their assault rifle on a park bench and having someone steal it, both should be dealt with criminally.
 
This incident just brought tears to my eyes. And I'm going to be so pissed off about the fuckers in television who keep trumpeting out "now is not the time." How much more motherfuckers? How much more carnage?
 
[quote name='Mooby']That's not practical when you have illegal arms being shipped in and out of this country on a daily basis.[/QUOTE]

I was pretty clear by what I meant and I already have it covered, but let's breakdown what you're saying instead of repeating myself.

What makes those guns "illegal" beyond you slapping that label on them?
 
The other part that makes my blood boil in all of this, how low of a cretin do you have to be, to think to yourself as a member of the media, "Hey, I've got a grand idea! Quick cram a microphone in an 8 year old's face who just sat through mass murder." So, Jenny, after you saw your older brother get shot in the face, what were you thinking? Cover the event, get details. Don't exploit the kids in all of this. They respect victims of sex abuse, why can't we respect victims and witnessess of horrific violence.
 
Yeah - I've seen some of those video clips as thumbnails on a couple of the news sites.

I'm not even going to give them the clicks.

Those kids should be seeing their families and psychiatrists. Not "reporters".
 
Ah, and we've already had News Media throwing around the Twitter/Facebook accounts of people with the same name as the shooter. Pretty good shit, but let's see if we can't up the class a little bit more?

7sEMW.png


HldnF.png

Yes. Yes, thank you, American Family Association's "Director of Issues Analysis". Thank you for existing.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Point taken.

However, at the very least, we could wait until the facts of the case are known so we don't have blowhards going off about violent rhetoric in politics or violence in entertainment that turns out to have played no role in the actual shooting, for example.[/QUOTE]

I think there something to be said about "gun culture" in the US. It may have less to do with amount of guns and more to a societal issue. Israel and Switzerland both have very easy access to guns. Citizens are allowed to own them freely and gun ownership is on par with the US yet they have a much lower homicide rate. Not sure if gun control is the end all be all answer but I think it is a start in the right direction for sure.

I agree though that making baseless statements before all facts are known is advisable but in the general sense an actual conversation about guns in this country can be had today.
 
[quote name='berzirk']The other part that makes my blood boil in all of this, how low of a cretin do you have to be, to think to yourself as a member of the media, "Hey, I've got a grand idea! Quick cram a microphone in an 8 year old's face who just sat through mass murder." So, Jenny, after you saw your older brother get shot in the face, what were you thinking? Cover the event, get details. Don't exploit the kids in all of this. They respect victims of sex abuse, why can't we respect victims and witnessess of horrific violence.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget that the press has to go throught the parents for this type of stuff. Just sayin'
 
I can't help but think that the reason a lot of these nut jobs pull these things is for the attention that will be afforded them post-mortem. They always seem to get their wish.
 
[quote name='Mooby']Any call for gun control legislation presumes these acts are committed with guns obtained legally. That may or may not be the case. As the facts trickle in it's obvious this was premeditated as the man killed one of his family members then proceeded to drive all the way from New Jersey to Connecticut to bust into the school and start shooting up the place. Hard to imagine that someone who was hell bent on doing this wouldn't have gotten his hands on a gun one way or another.

Drugs are illegal but anyone who wants them can get them without much effort.[/QUOTE]

We definitely need to know the facts. There have been 61 mass shootings in the US since 1982. 48-49 (not sure from graph) of them occurred with guns obtained legally. There is an good 11 points on gun control article from the Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

Some interesting tidbits:

11 of the 20 worst mass shootings have occurred in the US. (not including today which if the death count holds would make it #2 in the US). Finland is #2 on the list with 2.

5 of those 11 have occurred since 2007. Again a society issue is also at play IMO.

Violence is down in this country but still higher than many other countries.

The South is the most violent region in the US.

Home gun ownership is actually lower than 50 years ago.

States with stricter gun control laws have fewer deaths from gun-related violence.

Interesting read.
 
At risk of sounding clever and/or cute:
How many of these things happened this year in the US? Batman, that mall last week, this one and the Sikh temple are the ones I can remember. That's 4. Average one every three months. Also, that's 4 I can remember which also says something...

How many happened this year in Japan which has HUGE restrictions on guns?
 
[quote name='nasum']At risk of sounding clever and/or cute:
How many of these things happened this year in the US? Batman, that mall last week, this one and the Sikh temple are the ones I can remember. That's 4. Average one every three months. Also, that's 4 I can remember which also says something...

How many happened this year in Japan which has HUGE restrictions on guns?[/QUOTE]

And as someone pointed out, how many have happened in Switzerland or New Zealand?
 
[quote name='EdRyder']The cooling off time is ultimately exactly why we finally need regulation. Gulliani was just on CNN talking about this yesterday.
Once more with the assumption that when someone is determined to mass murder people (paraphrasing him here) "Whether its with knives or poison they'll find a way".
Total BS
All these rampages prove it comes down to ease of use.[/QUOTE]

Something about driving a car into a building right? Well, you can construct barriers. How much is a bag of concrete? How much is a kid's life worth?
A knife? One or two people can subdue a person with a knife.
Poison? Yep, hard to detect that. On the other hand, the argument that armed citizens prevent tragedies wouldn't apply since, well, it's hard to detect and deter a mass poisoning.

To that end, what makes more sense; kevlar for the kids or reducing access?
 
[quote name='Temporaryscars']And as someone pointed out, how many have happened in Switzerland or New Zealand?[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing that those countries have a much better relationship with guns as opposed to the one in the US, which fetishizes them.

[quote name='nasum']Something about driving a car into a building right? Well, you can construct barriers. How much is a bag of concrete? How much is a kid's life worth?
A knife? One or two people can subdue a person with a knife.
Poison? Yep, hard to detect that. On the other hand, the argument that armed citizens prevent tragedies wouldn't apply since, well, it's hard to detect and deter a mass poisoning.

To that end, what makes more sense; kevlar for the kids or reducing access?[/QUOTE]

Kevlar of course! Cause the Free Market!
 
[quote name='winterice']We should have a one pull one bullet law. It would make every gun have the same firing rate of a revolver. I've never shot a gun before but wouldn't the index finger be tired by the tenth or so bullet? Even if the index finger doesn't tired easily, I think the delay of having to pull the trigger every time would help.[/QUOTE]
Well automatic guns are illegal in the US but semi's aren't which is what the shooter used. Odd logic I know.
 
Side note : Watching the news footage just now with cops once again just running directly into the building like they dont give a fuck (just like they did in Aurora)
Remind me to be nicer to Cops
 
[quote name='winterice']We should have a one pull one bullet law. It would make every gun have the same firing rate of a revolver. I've never shot a gun before but wouldn't the index finger be tired by the tenth or so bullet? Even if the index finger doesn't tired easily, I think the delay of having to pull the trigger every time would help.[/QUOTE]

Automatic guns are already illegal. About the only thing that could still be done is banning magazines larger than 10 bullets or whatever as having to reload more often would give cops, bystanders etc. more windows to stop a shooting.

But for these types of mass shootings, it's really just more prevention needed. We have a terribly broken and inefficient system for detecting and treating mental illness in this country.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Automatic guns are already illegal. About the only thing that could still be done is banning magazines larger than 10 bullets or whatever as having to reload more often would give cops, bystanders etc. more windows to stop a shooting.

But for these types of mass shootings, it's really just more prevention needed. We have a terribly broken and inefficient system for detecting and treating mental illness in this country.[/QUOTE]


It doesn't help that our country manufactures more then triple the amount of handguns then people in our country.

I think the ratio is for every 10 people there are 9 guns.

Handguns aren't meant to hunt with.
 
[quote name='Purple Flames']Yeah but how often do you hear about this sort of thing coming out of Japan compared to the dozens of gun-related violent crimes in the US that happen every day?[/QUOTE]

To be fair, this is America. We don't care about what goes on in strange forign countries.

[quote name='EdRyder']Side note : Watching the news footage just now with cops once again just running directly into the building like they dont give a fuck (just like they did in Aurora)
Remind me to be nicer to Cops[/QUOTE]

Please stop by the other thread where a 20+ year officer's word means virtually nothing vs. what internet experts speculate might have happened.

Not to say that every single cop ever is as awesome as these guys are, but too many folks automatically distrust the word of an officer and assume he's just out to "kill some darkies" when something goes down.
 
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