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The Steam Deal Thread V6. We're all pumped for CAG 3.0!


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#16501 Idiotekque

Idiotekque

    Playfire Pink Knight

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:42 PM

Some like to argue that Steam is always online DRM. While it's true that the offline mode isn't great and could stand some work, I don't lose access to my library because my cable goes out or because Steam's servers go offline for maintenance.

Unfortunately that's not true... you just got lucky. Both my friend and I have flown somewhere recently and not had internet connection, and upon trying to start Steam in offline mode it has said:

"Steam - error
Unable to connect to the steam network. 'Offline mode' is unavailable because there is no Steam login information on this computer.
You will not be able to use Steam until you can connect to the Steam network again.
"

Theoretically you SHOULD simply be able to check the "Remember me" box when signing in and never have this issue (and many times you will not have this issue), but it's a very common problem because of Steam's login info cache breaking and just wanting your information over again. This really sucks when you don't have internet connection, since you're just locked out of all of your Steam games. I was pissed off when this happened and for 3 days or so I had zero access to most of my games. Made me wish I had more games on Origin, which I've never had this problem with... (ended up playing GOG games)

Apparently there's a fix where you back up some wingui file and restore it when it has this problem, but even then, I don't think that fix has worked for everyone. I'll have to try it in the future, but c'mon Steam. That is not a viable solution. Get your shit together.

Basically, Steam CAN be always online DRM.

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Terraria - $2 (Steam),  X3: Terran Conflict - $2 (Steam)Fable: The Lost Chapters - $2 (Steam)

 

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#16502 jshackles

jshackles

    Enhanced Steam Guy

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:49 PM

I love how EA and Activision are the only pubs that get hate over trying to make money. If people are going to buy a copy of Call of Duty or Madden every year why not release it every year? If it costs more to run a server than the value it returns, why not shut it down? These are businesses operating in an attempt to make a profit.


I don't think anyone is faulting EA or Activision for wanting to make money, just the method in which their doing it. As best I can tell, the "Always Online DRM" was only implemented to counter piracy. Will people who would normally pirate your game pay $60 when they can't find a way? EA seems to think so. But the sad thing is, they'll find a way. So EA implements a "feature" that causes users not to be able to connect, lose their progress, etc but adds no real benefit to the paying customers.

So - as far as I see it, the paying customers have a right to be upset. Their discomfort in this scenario is subsidizing EA's losses to piracy.

#16503 KaOTiK

KaOTiK

    CAGiversary!

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:53 PM

I'd pay a few bucks to hire Godzilla as a city hitman :D

#16504 Sir_Fragalot

Sir_Fragalot

    wants Startropics 3.

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:05 AM

So - as far as I see it, the paying customers have a right to be upset. Their discomfort in this scenario is subsidizing EA's losses to piracy.

Exactly. I paid $60 for SimCity (well not really, with the Amazon credit and stuff). I should be able to play it day one. Not this oh our fucking servers are fucked.

Day one is not an excuse. I mean yeah Tomb Raider had day one problems, but if I owned it and I so inclined wanted to play a version that has graphical problems, so be it. I can still play it. SimCity I can't play because of EA, so basically right now I spent $60 on a product that doesn't work in any state. I know personally software is a bitch to get right, but at the same time if they want to put out this always online DRM, it should not take a week to get it to a state where people can play it. That is just how not to do business. Plus the more you piss off loyal customers, the more they are not going to want to come back.

I am all for new ways of innovation, new ways to play but I also don't want to feel like I am wasting money to be a glorified beta tester.
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#16505 MysterD

MysterD

    CAG's "Favorite" DRM-Cashew & Cylon-Toaster

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:13 AM

I love how EA and Activision are the only pubs that get hate over trying to make money. If people are going to buy a copy of Call of Duty or Madden every year why not release it every year? If it costs more to run a server than the value it returns, why not shut it down? These are businesses operating in an attempt to make a profit.

I think the major problem in the industry right now is oversaturation of the market. There are too many choices for consumers right now and the market can't support the amount available. This creates other issues such as bloated budgets, limited dev time, and mass market appeal decisions that adversely affect the final product.


Bah, EA and Activision ain't the only ones I got a bone to pick with!

I wasn't very happy w/...
UbiSoft when they did they did their always online DRM (Especially w/ AC2 and SC: Conviction PC);
the tons of DLC in some games (see my SR: The Third complaint);
Season Passes announced before a base game's even released (AC3, Bioshock: Infinite - I'm looking at you);
yearly sports games release not adding much new but few gameplay modes and new tweaks (which is why I buy sports games cheap when I do; and/or every few years);
Pay-DLC that is on the disc and must be bought to unlock;
DLC Only Packs not being release (which would be for gamers who own base-game already);
online activation DRM and install limiting DRM schemes;
and numerous other business practices.

#16506 MysterD

MysterD

    CAG's "Favorite" DRM-Cashew & Cylon-Toaster

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:16 AM

Exactly. I paid $60 for SimCity (well not really, with the Amazon credit and stuff). I should be able to play it day one. Not this oh our fucking servers are fucked.

Day one is not an excuse. I mean yeah Tomb Raider had day one problems, but if I owned it and I so inclined wanted to play a version that has graphical problems, so be it. I can still play it. SimCity I can't play because of EA, so basically right now I spent $60 on a product that doesn't work in any state. I know personally software is a bitch to get right, but at the same time if they want to put out this always online DRM, it should not take a week to get it to a state where people can play it. That is just how not to do business. Plus the more you piss off loyal customers, the more they are not going to want to come back.

I am all for new ways of innovation, new ways to play but I also don't want to feel like I am wasting money to be a glorified beta tester.


Yeah, with Tomb Raider 2013 - I read on Kotaku if you have an Nvidia card, just turn off Tessellation if you got constant crashes.
That should solve the problem, 'til NVidia fixes it.

#16507 Idiotekque

Idiotekque

    Playfire Pink Knight

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:23 AM

I don't think some of these always online DRM schemes are set up to counter piracy so much as it's just that the game is built to be a social thing, and the developer didn't bother adding a fully single player side. TDU2 is awesome, because it has the social aspect, but you can also play offline just fine. EA is just being lazy, in my opinion, making a game so social while totally forgoing making it single player accessible.

It costs more money to make the game fully functional both ways, and EA has decided that the cost of doing that doesn't make them more money. They're probably right, it just sucks for the customer.

Selling Groupees Sometimes Tuesday Bundles for $1.10 PayPal or one TF2 key. PM me!

 

Terraria - $2 (Steam),  X3: Terran Conflict - $2 (Steam)Fable: The Lost Chapters - $2 (Steam)

 

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#16508 MysterD

MysterD

    CAG's "Favorite" DRM-Cashew & Cylon-Toaster

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:33 AM

I don't think some of these always online DRM schemes are set up to counter piracy so much as it's just that the game is built to be a social thing,
...

I don't buy that.
I don't recall D3 beating pirated, torrented, and cracked.

Also - this "tie game to Origin" is another a way to kill 2nd-hand sales, as well.
We don't/can't re-sell games that get tied to client-programs like Steam and Origin.
GMG's Capsule is one of the few clients that has DRM built into it for allowing re-selling.

...
and the developer didn't bother adding a fully single player side. TDU2 is awesome, because it has the social aspect, but you can also play offline just fine. EA is just being lazy, in my opinion, making a game so social while totally forgoing making it single player accessible.

Exactly - TDU2 can STILL work fine as an Offline SP-experience, if Atari or I am having trouble w/ Internet connection problems.

#16509 Eldredpe

Eldredpe

    Disconcerted

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:57 AM

Also - this "tie game to Origin" is another a way to kill 2nd-hand sales, as well.
We don't/can't re-sell games that get tied to client-programs like Steam and Origin.
GMG's Capsule is one of the few clients that has DRM built into it for allowing re-selling.


You haven't been able to reasonably expect to be able to resell a PC game since the invention of the serial key.

#16510 Idiotekque

Idiotekque

    Playfire Pink Knight

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:59 AM

You haven't been able to reasonably expect to be able to resell a PC game since the invention of the serial key.

I don't know about that. I can't count how many PC games (with serial keys), that I've bought from thrift stores, played, and also sold.

Selling Groupees Sometimes Tuesday Bundles for $1.10 PayPal or one TF2 key. PM me!

 

Terraria - $2 (Steam),  X3: Terran Conflict - $2 (Steam)Fable: The Lost Chapters - $2 (Steam)

 

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#16511 Cheaplikeafox 3.0

Cheaplikeafox 3.0

    Insufferable Asshole

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:04 AM

Wait, we don't own the games we buy?

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#16512 hal

hal

    Game Hoarder

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:04 AM

As best I can tell, the "Always Online DRM" was only implemented to counter piracy.


I'd have to disagree. It's probably a happy coincidence, but the online features are kind of a big part of the game.

Real cities depend on other cities for commerce and resources and that's where they took the series. One of the Maxis devs was saying they'd always wanted to have all that online connectivity. You might argue that Maxis dev=EA talking points, and you may be right, but the online/social aspect of SimCity definitely doesn't feel just tacked on or cosmetic in any way.

There IS a sandbox mode, but it's more of a cheat-mode and criminally, it requires being online.

I hope EA gets their shit sorted out and I hope people eventually give it a chance because it is kinda cool. I'd still love to see a more classic reboot of the game - or at least a similar mode.

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#16513 walkonshadows

walkonshadows

    Terminal CAGtosis

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:10 AM

Blah, exactly when did computer games become all social and socially acceptable?

It kinda makes me miss the days when the answer to the question, "So do you have any hobbies?" of "I like to play computer games." was only slightly more acceptable than "I like to drink." but at the same time less socially acceptable than "I go to cat shows every weekend."


I was asked by a co-worker one day a few years back what I did for fun, and I said "I play videogames". His faced dropped and he said "That's worse than crack!". I laughed, cause I thought it was a joke (after all, I remembered at that time I had just finished a 12 hour marathon of Final Fantasy X the night before). But as it turns out he was a very hard-right Christian, and wasn't joking at all. This guy fought in 'Nam and Korea, and he, at some point came to think that Video Games were the 2nd most evil thing on the planet.......next to Communism.

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#16514 Eldredpe

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    Disconcerted

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:13 AM

I don't know about that. I can't count how many PC games (with serial keys), that I've bought from thrift stores, played, and also sold.


But if you hadn't found it for absurdly cheap at a thrift store, is it a chance you would have taken?

#16515 Sir_Fragalot

Sir_Fragalot

    wants Startropics 3.

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:15 AM

I don't buy that.



Exactly - TDU2 can STILL work fine as an Offline SP-experience, if Atari or I am having trouble w/ Internet connection problems.

Bingo, I don't mind that my game is on Origin. It's when my game is unplayable because EA got too lazy to implement offline Singleplayer. I get this whole social thing, but it's also another thing to make the game unusable for when servers are offline. SimCity is NOT an MMO, thus there should be offline Singleplayer.
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#16516 Hoarder

Hoarder

    Steam Addict

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:15 AM

Whatever happened to buying games just to waste money. Then you don't have to worry about any DRM schemes.

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#16517 MysterD

MysterD

    CAG's "Favorite" DRM-Cashew & Cylon-Toaster

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:16 AM

Wait, we don't own the games we buy?


According to most PC game's EULA's, the answer to that is "NO."
We have a license to "use it"; and then insert more legalese and terms.

EDIT:

You haven't been able to reasonably expect to be able to resell a PC game since the invention of the serial key.

Very true.

EDIT 2:

Bingo, I don't mind that my game is on Origin. It's when my game is unplayable because EA got too lazy to implement offline Singleplayer. I get this whole social thing, but it's also another thing to make the game unusable for when servers are offline. SimCity is NOT an MMO, thus there should be offline Singleplayer.

Right.
At least w/ Sims 3, if I want to do the Social crap, it's up to me to sign in...or not.
Plus, once the game's activated to use - if there's a problem on EA's end or my end, Sims 3 still works...at least on this PC and at least for now.

Currently, for SimCity (2013)....well, we all know the deal w/ that...

#16518 motoki

motoki

    Entitled Hypocritical Playfire Pirate with Double Standards

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:20 AM

Bingo, I don't mind that my game is on Origin. It's when my game is unplayable because EA got too lazy to implement offline Singleplayer. I get this whole social thing, but it's also another thing to make the game unusable for when servers are offline. SimCity is NOT an MMO, thus there should be offline Singleplayer.


I honestly think how they envisioned it IS a sort of MMO if not in the traditional WOW sense, certainly in the sense that it's meant to be played online by a mass amount of people all somewhat interconnected. They just haven't maybe done the greatest job of hitting that point home outside of interviews.

Or another way to think of it is a big budget AAA Facebook style social game. Some aspects of it aren't actually that different from say Cityville.

Whatever happened to buying games just to waste money. Then you don't have to worry about any DRM schemes.


:lol:

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#16519 MysterD

MysterD

    CAG's "Favorite" DRM-Cashew & Cylon-Toaster

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:24 AM

Whatever happened to buying games just to waste money. Then you don't have to worry about any DRM schemes.


I do that plenty already.
It's called my "always growing backlog."

#16520 DonRamon

DonRamon

    CAG Veteran

  • CAG Veteran

Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:26 AM

It's a nice idea to expect a company to put one $60 game out that you will be playing for the rest of your life, but companies gotta make money and people gotta eat.

Of course they want you to buy something new the next year.

The charges you're leveling seem offputtingly hyperbolic.


It is not an idea, do you think I'm pulling that out of my ass?? That's how it was actually done in the past, and everybody was happy, companies and consumers. See, you're just proving my point, you are already conditioned into thinking it's normal to dish out more than $60 every year, just for the right to use, what often is basically the same game, the problem is by your logic all the devs from the 80s and 90s have all starved to death then, so don't go ad hominem on me Mr.

I figured that's what full-blown expansions and DLC's are for, if they want you to KEEP playing the same game and expand on it/add content to it.

I mean, hell - how many expansions do Sims games and EQ have? :-x


People argue that $60 is not enough for people to eat, must be they don't realize that these days, the price for base game+season pass hovers around $100, 100 for blops 2.

The real problem with this kind of conditioned behavior is that it makes companies feel they can get away with anything they want.

#16521 ezelkow1

ezelkow1

    CAG in Limbo

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:32 AM

+1

I agree its not hyperbolic at all, theres a reason GOG does a good business, because those games, apparently that people should have paid 1000$ for over their lifetime to play, are still as awesome as the day they came out. That used to be the incentive for a game company to innovate and come out with newer and better games with new ideas so that people would plunk down another 50$, instead of milking their consumers for 5$ here and there so they wouldnt have to come out with something new; or even worse, shutting down what allowed them to play the game and force them to go buy it for an artificial reason

#16522 asheskitty

asheskitty

    Coconut Kitty

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:48 AM

I wonder about SimCity expansions. Say you get it, but your neighbors don't. They add in a new resource to export (like garbage service), but your neighbors can't accept it. What then?

Spoiler



They round up the players who haven't bought the expansions, evict them from their current cities, and move them to SimGhetto.

Spoiler
I think the major problem in the industry right now is oversaturation of the market. There are too many choices for consumers right now and the market can't support the amount available. This creates other issues such as bloated budgets, limited dev time, and mass market appeal decisions that adversely affect the final product.



I think the oversaturation is more segment based than broad based. Think of MMOs (the likes of EQ/WoW and their wannabes), I'd contend that the failure of anything else to succeed on EQ/WoW scale is that the potential playerbase is limited due to the $15/mo and large time commitment. You can't really commit to playing two life-sucking MMOs over a long period of time, and it seems that WoW's edge (considerably due to being the established drug of choice) in keeping their playerbase hooked seems to stifle the competition. Then there are the longer term life issues, like transitioning between, school, work, kids. I raided with a good number of parents of older children, but almost never ones with younger children.

Spoiler
he, at some point came to think that Video Games were the 2nd most evil thing on the planet.......next to Communism.



I'd ran into a certain contingent that when you're suggest that they adopt GPL'd software, you might as well be clenching your little red book.

Whatever happened to buying games just to waste money. Then you don't have to worry about any DRM schemes.



It's kinda like wine collecting, you don't want to have wine-in-a-box to end up in your cellar.

Spoiler

Or another way to think of it is a big budget AAA Facebook style social game. Some aspects of it aren't actually that different from say Cityville.



That strikes me as a very interesting point. It's quite plausible to me that they were thinking of it that way. "How do we crush Farmville while lining our pockets as much as possible?"

I dream in yellow comic sans.

It rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets Bad Rats again.

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#16523 Preedatore

Preedatore

    Hamburger Thread

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:55 AM

This talk of PC games is getting way off topic. Let's reel it back in...

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#16524 asheskitty

asheskitty

    Coconut Kitty

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:04 AM

This talk of PC games is getting way off topic. Let's reel it back in...

Spoiler
No stock pics! Show me your beer.



Here's Idiot's ^_~

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I dream in yellow comic sans.

It rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets Bad Rats again.

♥·.·´¯`·.·♥ Le Mew - Le Purrrrr ♥·.·´¯`·.·♥
Price Trackers --- Enhanced Steam --- SteamGameSales --- IsThereAnyDeal --- CamelCamelCamel Amazon $5 off w/EC List

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#16525 Preedatore

Preedatore

    Hamburger Thread

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:10 AM

Here's Idiot's ^_~

Spoiler


Man, Hawaii doesn't look anything like all the majestic pics I see.

#16526 Blade

Blade

    Trying to have a member title that's longer than MDerrick

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:15 AM

Here's mine:

Spoiler


#16527 Cheaplikeafox 3.0

Cheaplikeafox 3.0

    Insufferable Asshole

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:15 AM

https://encrypted-tb...-u1sVwn1QSoOTCy

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#16528 Eldredpe

Eldredpe

    Disconcerted

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:16 AM

It is not an idea, do you think I'm pulling that out of my ass?? That's how it was actually done in the past, and everybody was happy, companies and consumers. See, you're just proving my point, you are already conditioned into thinking it's normal to dish out more than $60 every year, just for the right to use, what often is basically the same game, the problem is by your logic all the devs from the 80s and 90s have all starved to death then, so don't go ad hominem on me Mr.



People argue that $60 is not enough for people to eat, must be they don't realize that these days, the price for base game+season pass hovers around $100, 100 for blops 2.

The real problem with this kind of conditioned behavior is that it makes companies feel they can get away with anything they want.


You're right... I am the blind consumer, lining up to BUY BUY BUY! :roll:

You can keep looking at the "good old days" with rose tinted glasses where every game was Baldur's Gate and all multiplayer experiences/communities had the longevity of Starcraft and everybody was just out to enjoy games, damnit! with none of this money mumbo jumbo screwing things up, but if you think publishers haven't been throwing out shit to gamers since the beginning of video games, you have a horrible memory. (And that is an ad hominem attack, or at the very least something closer to one than suggesting your argument was exaggerated.)

There is far less utter trash on the market now in mainstream games than there has been probably ever. We complain about having to wait a few days for a patch on a game's release (as we rightfully should), but fifteen years ago that was a patch you might have never gotten, and if you did, it would have been months. Compatibility is rarely an issue with PC games anymore. Contrastingly, when I was a kid I spent four years over three different computers trying to get Dark Forces to run. It never did.

Games are at a great place at the moment, and you're making this bizarre argument that EA has a gun to your head forcing you to buy every new Madden game and that in the golden days this would never have happened. But I don't know what you're talking about. In the old days of gaming there were some great games put out that I still play, just as there are great games put out now that in 10 or 15 years you'll still be able to play. (If you make the argument that in 10 or 15 years you will be unable to play SimCity, you're being ridiculous. When those servers get shut down they'll patch out the always online restriction, just as every publisher has promised they'll do since the beginning of using always online DRM.) There was also a lot of total shit released that you still had to pay for and you now never touch. A lot of the same publishers were putting out both, and they still wanted your money back then. They were probably even getting better margins on it, as their dev team was 1/10 the size and adjusted for inflation they were charging you the same thing they are now.

I'm not condoning always-online DRM, and I don't think EA shouldn't be held accountable for launch day server issues and that you shouldn't be annoyed by the current aggressive DLC plans many publishers have, but I think the view you're taking on the past is a bit more nostalgic than it ought to be.

#16529 elessar123

elessar123

    96.5% more WUB WUB

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:19 AM

Then there are the longer term life issues, like transitioning between, school, work, kids. I raided with a good number of parents of older children, but almost never ones with younger children.


I played WoW with people who had babies. I feel like they neglected them.

No stock pics! Show me your beer.


Hrmph, look at that. What's in my fridge is exactly the three beers I posted about...

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Spoiler


#16530 motoki

motoki

    Entitled Hypocritical Playfire Pirate with Double Standards

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:19 AM

This talk of PC games is getting way off topic. Let's reel it back in...

No stock pics! Show me your beer.


Okay how's this for beer talk, I like to buy beer in Oregon where I don't have to pay sales tax and then drink it while playing EA And Activision games and complaining about how money grubbing they are.

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