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So I just finished Babylon 5. Anyone wanna discuss?


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#1 davo1224

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:57 AM

Some random bullet points to start the convo going:

* I really enjoyed Sheridan as captain. I feel like he was the right choice instead of Sinclair for where they wanted to go.

* Am I missing something or did they really not show the Telepath war?

* WTF is up with Thirdspace?

#2 dafoomie

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 05:05 AM

The telepath war happens years after the show.

I always preferred Sinclair but that move had to happen for a lot of reasons. Bruce Boxleitner is a solid actor.

Thirdspace aired in the middle of season 5 but was set back in early season 4 which caused a few problems with continuity.

Have you watched B5: Crusade, In the Beginning, Call to Arms, etc?

#3 davo1224

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 05:55 AM

Yeah I've watched all of the episodes/"movies". I find Thirdspace to be jarringly out of place. One of the show's biggest strengths was being able to spoil the ending and still make you want to see how it unfolds. There were no flashbacks, segues, or mentions of it until the next episode (which made even less sense when it seemed like the producers made Delenn mock it). It was preceded by a really hot episode and then BAM! Claudia Christian like nothing ever happened. What made it even worse was that if you never watched it, it wouldn't matter.

Only other similar episode that comes to mind is "Deconstruction of Falling Stars". I was willing to see where they went with it until they did the stupid reanimation sequence in the boardroom. Sentient holograms that aren't really sentient? It was like they tried their best at trying to outdo the formula for DS9. Star Trek can get away with lazy explanations because up until DS9, each episode didn't really matter to the next so you could throw a theme out there like "Uh...the future...etc." When you needed a plot device or to explain the reason for something, you could go with the prophets. With how absolutely good Babylon 5 was for the majority of the time, they couldn't pull off something that broad and get away with it.

#4 Erad30

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:29 AM

One of my favorite scenes of all time in anything ever:

47DfQcHMYLY

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#5 Jodou

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:40 AM

Haven't seen the show in probably 15 years but all I remember was the banter between Londo and G'kar being fucking hilarious.

JodouKastBizmuth.jpg


#6 dafoomie

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:41 AM

Deconstruction of Falling Stars was a hack job they put together quickly as they didn't expect anyone to pick up the series beyond season 4, they had filmed Sleeping in Light as the season 4 and series finale and needed to replace it when TNT entered the picture. Understandable why it wasn't that great but it shed light on a few things. Thirdspace was always the weakest entry in the series, except of course for Legend of the Rangers which was the pilot for a series that wasn't picked up.

You watched the spinoff series Crusade too? They messed with the episode order in the original airing so there's a suggested order to watch them in that works better.

#7 ITDEFX

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:54 PM

One of my favorite scenes of all time in anything ever:

47DfQcHMYLY


This...wow what a great scene for vir.

Deconstruction of Falling Stars was a hack job they put together quickly as they didn't expect anyone to pick up the series beyond season 4, they had filmed Sleeping in Light as the season 4 and series finale and needed to replace it when TNT entered the picture. Understandable why it wasn't that great but it shed light on a few things. Thirdspace was always the weakest entry in the series, except of course for Legend of the Rangers which was the pilot for a series that wasn't picked up.

You watched the spinoff series Crusade too? They messed with the episode order in the original airing so there's a suggested order to watch them in that works better.


Yes DoFS was shit. Thirdspace was weird.

There should be no excuse why plans JMS and WB are holding back from release of B5 HD. The footage is there...just they would have to redo the CG. I am sure it would look even better than TNG HD.

#8 davo1224

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

I had no idea that G'Kar and Tomalak are the same guy. There was one exchange between him and Londo in one of the last episodes that had me in hysterics. It was when Londo found out he was
Spoiler
.

I watched but didn't really pay attention to the Crusades. I got so disinterested because of stuff like "River of Souls" instead of showing us how Centauri Prime turned out, revisiting the deal Lyta made with Garibaldi, etc.

#9 dafoomie

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

There should be no excuse why plans JMS and WB are holding back from release of B5 HD. The footage is there...just they would have to redo the CG. I am sure it would look even better than TNG HD.


They don't have any of the original 3d models anymore, and they'd have to re-do all of the live action CG too, of which there was a lot. Was hard to justify the cost before the TNG Blu-Rays, but maybe now we'll see something.

#10 ITDEFX

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 05:59 PM

All JMS has to do is remaster the pilot and 2 key episodes for a demo. The pilot was remastered once, and yes I agree the CG needs to be redone. I am sure the ships made for that B5 movie 6 years ago is saved somewhere.

#11 dafoomie

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:01 AM

The up front costs of recreating all those assets are what is cost prohibitive. The stuff they did for Lost Tales wasn't HD.

A lot of things were CG or bluescreen in that show that you might not expect to be. The garden for example. If the movie went forward a couple years ago they could have done it and justified the extra cost with the sales of the series the movie would drive. WB doesn't think they'll make money on the deal as it is.

#12 davo1224

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:31 AM

Which is a shame. Far and away one of my favorite shows ever now. No revenge on Bester though? BLAH!

#13 dafoomie

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:48 PM

They tell you what happens to Bester in the Psi Corps Trilogy books.

#14 ITDEFX

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:53 AM

The up front costs of recreating all those assets are what is cost prohibitive. The stuff they did for Lost Tales wasn't HD.

A lot of things were CG or bluescreen in that show that you might not expect to be. The garden for example. If the movie went forward a couple years ago they could have done it and justified the extra cost with the sales of the series the movie would drive. WB doesn't think they'll make money on the deal as it is.


I could have sworn Lost Tales was shown in HD on Netflix.

#15 davo1224

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:03 PM

I dunno, I just feel like they maybe wasted season five. I have to say that I probably watched every episode of the Vorlon/Shadow war in a row. Same with when they moved towards Earth. This is one of my favorite scenes ever in anything.



#16 ITDEFX

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:02 AM

One thing I liked over DS9 with this show was how dramatic everything was and how everything was building up. The space battles were cool and I dunno...is it fair to say they were better than DS9's battles?

#17 davo1224

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:05 AM

Definitely. Furthermore, there was a bigger sense of danger. People on DS9 just went about their life during the war. Everyone on B5 during any war acted like they were always going to die. It really helped keep the suspense going.

#18 ITDEFX

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:06 AM

this one gave me chills!



#19 mguiddy

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:18 AM

I could have sworn Lost Tales was shown in HD on Netflix.

It was in HD on xbox live marketplace actually.
http://www.webwire.c...l.asp?aId=30809

#20 ITDEFX

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:24 AM

It was in HD on xbox live marketplace actually.
http://www.webwire.c...l.asp?aId=30809


So it was shot in HD.

#21 davo1224

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:08 AM

Did they ever plan on having Lyta Alexander come back? Talia Winters was admittedly horrible, regardless of why she was written off.

#22 dafoomie

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:01 AM

So it was shot in HD.

It isn't the same quality that they'd want for the series. I'm not telling you why I think they shouldn't, I'm telling you what Warner Brothers said the reason was.

Did they ever plan on having Lyta Alexander come back? Talia Winters was admittedly horrible, regardless of why she was written off.

They wanted to keep Lyta after the pilot but she wasn't available, so they replaced her. Talia was going to be on the show throughout and do for Kosh what Lyta did, the alternate personality storyline would've still happened but her old memories would've been recovered with Kosh's crystal from season 1. She wouldn't have been 'enhanced' on the Vorlon homeworld because Ironheart already did that in season 1. The hidden personality explains why they didn't nail her to the wall for helping him, as if Sinclair's bullshit really stopped Bester. Bester knew what she was. But she left the show, and Lyta was available, who they wanted in the first place (and who was a much better actor).

It all goes back to Takashima leaving the show and being replaced by Ivanova after the pilot. She was going to be the one who shoots Garibaldi in the back, she was going to have the secret psi-corps personality, and she was going to have the lesbian thing with Ivanova. She was the one responsible for facilitating the assassination in the pilot and there's some frames that give this away, they wouldn't have found out until the end of season 2. Ivanova would've entered the show as Takashima's subordinate and would've replaced her then.

Edited by dafoomie, 05 February 2013 - 06:20 AM.


#23 davo1224

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:01 PM

But why Takashima? She was a pretty terrible actress IMO. Possibly the worst one ever to be on the show IMO. Only one worse I can think of is maybe Nah'Toth #2 but that's either because a.) I loved #1 so much and/or b.) she didn't have much to work with.

For JMS to think that she could have carried so many storylines makes me think he just had a boner for her.

#24 dafoomie

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:15 PM

She was bad in the pilot but she was much better in other things.

#25 mguiddy

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:06 PM

But why Takashima? She was a pretty terrible actress IMO. Possibly the worst one ever to be on the show IMO. Only one worse I can think of is maybe Nah'Toth #2 but that's either because a.) I loved #1 so much and/or b.) she didn't have much to work with.

For JMS to think that she could have carried so many storylines makes me think he just had a boner for her.

Thanks for reminding me of Na'Toth #2... :/ :-&:puke:

#26 davo1224

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:43 AM

What was the point exactly of Lockley in the Lost Tales? Great self-contained episode with some dumb-as-all-get-out Exorcism stuff thrown in there.

#27 dafoomie

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:49 AM

It was the B story of a low budget direct to DVD release. Had to make a story work with a couple actors and a green screen.

#28 ITDEFX

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:45 PM

I really would have liked it if they showed David. The Lost Tales I think would have featured him, and what happened to bester during the last days of the Telepath war. I know the books go into that.

#29 dohdough

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

But why Takashima? She was a pretty terrible actress IMO. Possibly the worst one ever to be on the show IMO. Only one worse I can think of is maybe Nah'Toth #2 but that's either because a.) I loved #1 so much and/or b.) she didn't have much to work with.

For JMS to think that she could have carried so many storylines makes me think he just had a boner for her.

Well let's be honest, there were TONS of terrible things about the pilot and half of the first season was useless filler. You can't blame all that was wrong with the character on her, which is interesting because they actually "got" Kira in DS9 correct right off the bat(starting B5 DS9 war right here :lol:).

#30 dafoomie

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:25 AM

Well let's be honest, there were TONS of terrible things about the pilot and half of the first season was useless filler. You can't blame all that was wrong with the character on her, which is interesting because they actually "got" Kira in DS9 correct right off the bat(starting B5 DS9 war right here :lol:).

They did have a little help from the Babylon 5 series bible that JMS gave Paramount when he was pitching the show to them as a Star Trek spinoff.