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Next Xbox May or May Not Require Online/Allow Used Games (Update 4/25/13)


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#91 ShockandAww

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:13 PM

If by a couple of months you mean more than 6-9 then yes. Darksiders 2 has been out 6 months and it is still $50. That game has never been lower than $30 plus it has a season pass. It did not even sell that well either. So with a new system you are looking at $20 games most likely summer of 2014 at best.

It also assumes that with no used market that games will drop at the same rate which may not happen without competition.


This is true. I've bought Batman Arkham City GOTY and Saints Row The Third on PC each for under $7 I think it was. Sleeping Dogs has been $10 for PC. Darksiders 2 has been as low as $9. Hitman Absolution $17. I've already bought the upcoming Tomb Raider (don't laugh) for $33. The games are just always cheaper for PC compared to console. They also look better and I just grab my laptop, connect it to my TV via HDMI, and use an Xbox controller and I've got better games for less money (not counting the cost of the PC/console to begin with).

If Sony and MS were to both go the no used games route they're going to have to compete with price or people will just game on PC/Steambox and get better graphics and prices.

I'm still going to be in shock if one company (MS/Sony) does this but the other doesn't. I just can't really believe either could possibly be that stupid.

#92 whoknows

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:16 PM

I hope when Sony and MS do it Nintendo has a system update that does the same thing.

Look at how bad they're hurting right now because people are buying used games.

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#93 dmaul1114

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:29 PM

I don't care about buying used games as I pretty much just get things new. Be it things I want to play at launch or waiting for cheap deals.

But I would hate loosing the ability to sell games after beating them as I seldom replay games and I'm not a collector. So it's nice to recoup some money and not be stuck with a coaster.

So if that move happens, I'll probably only keep gaming if all the games are available as digital downloads and there are lots of big discounts and freebies like on Playstation+ etc.

I don't mind paying $10-20 for a digital game I'll just play once. Around the same I pay to go to the theater and see a movie (something I do fairly regularly) for more hours of entertainment. Maybe I'd pay up to $30 for longer games or things I really wanted to play.

But I'm not interested in paying $40+ for a game I can't resell, and I'm not interested in buying game discs that I can do nothing but toss in recycling. If I'm going to buy a one time use product, I'd rather go the green route and get a digital version.

#94 FellOpenIan

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:41 PM

I can't see either Microsoft or Sony giving the middle-finger to roughly 40% of their potential users by requiring an always-online connection.

It wouldn't prevent hacking and it wouldn't prevent piracy but it would prevent a ton of people from ever using their consoles...at least legitimately.

Steamworks games are pirated and torrented on day 01 so expect much the same for consoles.
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#95 Aceboogz

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:13 PM

Ill still buy the new systems no matter what.

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#96 htz

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:28 PM

I have a feeling they will block used games only for individuals to prevent selling on eBay and craigslist. Doesn't gamestop have a system in place with certain publishers where they share revenue for each used game sold while providing an online pass on the receipt? Just replace the online pass with a product activation key and they will essentially have a way to block used games while still allowing them. This is obviously not good for individuals but I don't see retailers like Gamestop will put up much of a fight for us consumers since they will still get to sell used games probably even more since that is the only place you can sell a used game with this method.

#97 Alamo

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:32 PM

Doesn't Microsoft and Sony like to have good relationships with retailers, and that is the reason for exclusive DLC and not pricing their online offers more competitively?

I can't see them destroying Gamestop, or other retailers, by getting rid of the used game market.

#98 Blaster man

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:43 PM

Might as well forget Collector's Editions if used games can't be played. You could have the rarest game in the world but no one will want your boxed items without a working game. Think about how much a mint condition but used Earthbound would be worth if the game was unplayable. That is...unless you plan on buying even more copies of games to hoard.

All no used games will do is enrich hoarders that have boxes of unopened games.

#99 waldo21212

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:52 PM

Might as well forget Collector's Editions if used games can't be played. You could have the rarest game in the world but no one will want your boxed items without a working game. Think about how much a mint condition but used Earthbound would be worth if the game was unplayable. That is...unless you plan on buying even more copies of games to hoard.

All no used games will do is enrich hoarders that have boxes of unopened games.


Good luck playing any game that requires an always on connection in 10 years.

#100 Kazuya

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:58 PM

If by a couple of months you mean more than 6-9 then yes. Darksiders 2 has been out 6 months and it is still $50. That game has never been lower than $30 plus it has a season pass. It did not even sell that well either. So with a new system you are looking at $20 games most likely summer of 2014 at best.

It also assumes that with no used market that games will drop at the same rate which may not happen without competition.


I should have probably exempted the better selling titles, you're right. But Gamestop still bends you over on those too. Gamestop basically takes a few bucks off and counts on the customer wanting that extra Happy meal over a shrink wrapped game. This is after accepting a ridiculously low trade in. They don't do customers or developers any great favors.

The prices will get to whatever point they need to be, that's the market. If people supposedly will not have money for new games because of the nonexistent used market, then the games will have to adjust. You can't get blood out of a turnip. No one will miss used games when they're gone... people will look back one day and laugh this was ever an issue.

#101 Loonknight

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:05 AM

I'm fine with both Sony and MS using activation codes for new games, requiring Used game purchases to also pick up an activation code via the online store, as long as it is just there to activate the game once and then you can play offline. I just can't see them not using some sort of way to purchase another activation code via an online storefront for used games. Totally making Used games obsolete just doesn't make sense to me at all.

However, if they decide to us an always online policy I will be hard-pressed in my decision to purchase either next-gen console as I've had trouble with Final Fight: Double Impact in the past on the PS3 and of course Diablo 3 on the PC.

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#102 Blaster man

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:08 AM

Good luck playing any game that requires an always on connection in 10 years.


Good point. I guess buying to resell would have to be done within the generation or half-way through the next. Obviously all games go out of print so you could conceivably make a lot of money reselling games as most would be very limited in supply with used games worthless.

I'm not sure why people think the we're "defending Gamestop". I for one am NOT defending GS. I'm defending my right of first sale and the ability to recover some of my money on eBay.

#103 blindinglights

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:09 AM

Think about how much a mint condition but used Earthbound would be worth if the game was unplayable.



So long as the game itself is on the optical media, the items will retain value. Maybe not as much as they would otherwise, but they definitely won't be worth nothing.

Let's be honest, the DRM will be broken and considering that this move in general will be seen as a huge middle finger, the types of people working on reverse engineering it will likely handle it in record time.
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#104 Salamando3000

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:34 AM

Good point. I guess buying to resell would have to be done within the generation or half-way through the next. Obviously all games go out of print so you could conceivably make a lot of money reselling games as most would be very limited in supply with used games worthless.

I'm not sure why people think the we're "defending Gamestop". I for one am NOT defending GS. I'm defending my right of first sale and the ability to recover some of my money on eBay.


Actually, if all games are given digital versions (and why wouldn't they) things going out of print would only be a big deal to collectors or people with terrible internet.

And your right of first sale goes out the window if Sony/MS has their lawyers specify that what you're buying is a non-transferable license to a title as opposed to a copy of the title.


#105 elessar123

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:37 AM

So long as the game itself is on the optical media, the items will retain value. Maybe not as much as they would otherwise, but they definitely won't be worth nothing.


You don't look at prices of PC games that require a code, huh.

Look at something like Spore with no codes, or Half Life without codes. They're worthless.

#106 Spokker

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:58 AM

I'll say the same thing I said about Steam, as long as the sales are good and some of the cost savings are passed on to consumers, then no used games will not bother me. I don't purchase $60 games now and I won't start on the Xbox 720 or PS4. I'm even less likely to purchase a game full price on digital distribution.

#107 blindinglights

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:27 AM

You don't look at prices of PC games that require a code, huh.

Look at something like Spore with no codes, or Half Life without codes. They're worthless.



The games you mention are readily available from digital download services at a low price. If the future console games are available some time after their original release at $10 or some other relatively cheap price via digital download, then you're right, the used media will be worthless. But if the only way to get a copy of that game is on the disc, and the DRM is broken, then those discs would retain some value.

Imagine if Uncharted had one and done DRM on PS3 but ways to circumvent it were developed. Then it's 10 years from now and Uncharted isn't available from an online download service. Would the Uncharted discs still be worthless like Spore without a code is now? I don't think we're talking about similar scenarios.
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#108 Salamando3000

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:01 AM

The games you mention are readily available from digital download services at a low price. If the future console games are available some time after their original release at $10 or some other relatively cheap price via digital download, then you're right, the used media will be worthless. But if the only way to get a copy of that game is on the disc, and the DRM is broken, then those discs would retain some value.

Imagine if Uncharted had one and done DRM on PS3 but ways to circumvent it were developed. Then it's 10 years from now and Uncharted isn't available from an online download service. Would the Uncharted discs still be worthless like Spore without a code is now? I don't think we're talking about similar scenarios.


In the case of uncharted? Yeah, they probably would be worthless. It's a mass produced game, a relatively old game, and requires special know-how to actually use it. The intersection of people who want to use it and the people who can use it will likely be dwarfed by the supply available. If it were sealed, or was from a series that had a much smaller print run, then there might be value. And that's ignoring the fact that the type of people who would have the knowledge and skill to circumvent drm could likely steal the game.


#109 defpally

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:34 PM

You know, something interesting about this - if they do go with online activation, then getting banned from XBox Live would carry a whole new impact. A ban currently locks you from downloaded games/content, but this would ban you from ALL games.

The long term implications would also be a good question, I still have an N64 hooked up in our SUV for the kids to play. I have a Dreamcast hooked up and occasionally pull out the Saturn. Playing retro games on old consoles would go away, unless before the console died they released an unlock patch - which you know they won't do because they want you to keep buying "upgraded" versions of those old games.

Microsoft is also chomping at the bit to convert ALL software sales to the license model, where you buy a license to use it that has a limited period and can be revoked. Office partially went this way recently. If the servers went offline after the lifespan of the console, then they would just point back to it and say you bought a "license" to use it not the game itself.

#110 elessar123

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:54 PM

You know, something interesting about this - if they do go with online activation, then getting banned from XBox Live would carry a whole new impact. A ban currently locks you from downloaded games/content, but this would ban you from ALL games.


That's how Steam is now, isn't it?

#111 defpally

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:55 AM

That's how Steam is now, isn't it?


Yeah, I think so - but XBox Live has cornered the market on idiots that are destined to get banned then freak when there game library becomes coasters. Mom and Dad aren't gonna like it much when their hacking/cheating/con little precious forfeits all of his $60 games. Why Was I Banned? is filled with clueless parents that have no idea their kid was scamming/hacking.

#112 ShockandAww

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:20 AM

Just to add a little fuel to the fire:

Someone named AndyH, who apparently has a good source somewhere (he accurately leaked some Wii U specs and also Durango specs well before others did) posted on Neogaf regarding the Xbox and it's used games/always online "features" and said:

"Edge has good information. I really wonder how consumers and retailers will react to this."

So assuming he is saying that the information from Edge is accurate...ugh.

I really hope if it's true Sony does not follow suit.

#113 soonersfan60

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:27 AM

If Sony does follow, it might help Nintendo some.

#114 ShockandAww

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:39 AM

If Sony does follow, it might help Nintendo some.


Sure, I'd probably buy a Wii U and not the other consoles just out of spite. I'd still end up getting a PS4, but not for a year or two until price drops and good games are out for it.

If you read the Edge article and assume it's accurate though, it says that PS4 will allow used games. I hope that is at least the case.

I still just can't believe MS would do this though. How are they planning on selling it? What informed consumer is still going to buy it? I guess people who are already big Xbox fans may stick with it because of their gamertag and friends who may stick with it also? I don't know. Good luck to MS if it's true.

It also ticks me off that we probably won't find out if the PS4 is doing this even on the 20th during their announcement. If they don't say anything on the used game/always online subject it'd really put a damper on the announcement imo. People may assume the worst if they don't specifically address the concerns.

#115 BWeed560

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:58 AM

I think i heard the same rumors last gen b4 systems came out..I really dont think they would do a online only , no second hand games model to sale the new systems.. Obviously online will play a major role in getting content , firmware updates and apps. It's how it is now days and dont think it'll be a requirement on the new systems.( but it is better to have connection)

As for second hand games, i have a feeling developers will want a code of some sort that has like 2-3 uses to activate a game on the system. It's like saying why give grapes when we can give you a apple and you split it in three's..

So in the end limiting the users of any used game purchase but not really eliminating used game sale. You will still need the disc but when you trade/sell the next user may be the final user of that game..

#116 htz

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:24 AM

If you read the Edge article and assume it's accurate though, it says that PS4 will allow used games. I hope that is at least the case.

I still just can't believe MS would do this though. How are they planning on selling it? What informed consumer is still going to buy it? I guess people who are already big Xbox fans may stick with it because of their gamertag and friends who may stick with it also? I don't know. Good luck to MS if it's true.


  • Call of Duty with enhanced graphics
  • Destiny from Bungie
  • Big GamerScores
  • Big investment into xbox live content
Any of the above 4 things could help make the next xbox sucessful with or without used games. You also have Steve Ballmer running Microsoft so even the stupidest idea(merging a tablet OS onto a desktop OS) can happen.

#117 mig0

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:46 PM

If there's money to be made off used sales, why don't those "makers" reach out to consumers, buy back those used copies themselves, and then resell them to customers? Then they would get a piece of the action.

#118 cancerman1120

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:06 PM

Well according to this guy publisher/developers should not even offer demos. This is what I dislike about the games industry. If your game is mediocre then it is best to trick people into spending $60 rather than making the game better. If you eliminate used sales and demos so that people are stuck with your crap game you can bet less games will be sold.

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#119 62t

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:10 PM

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#120 Salamando3000

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:41 PM

Well according to this guy publisher/developers should not even offer demos. This is what I dislike about the games industry. If your game is mediocre then it is best to trick people into spending $60 rather than making the game better. If you eliminate used sales and demos so that people are stuck with your crap game you can bet less games will be sold.

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Actually watched the full keynote. Of the 22 minute long video, he spent maybe a minute talking about it. It was part of an overall spiel about plans and the nature of games. Thinking of things like Achievements, when you see a friend with one, your head starts going, and you start thinking "hey, he has that, I want that, I can get it", and so you make plans to get it. And then you start to act on it. And so on.

Where demos came in - he provided a chart showing Xbox360 game unit sales for the first six months (Data courtesy of EEDAR). The bottom line was no demo or trailer. Second lowest was demo only. The line after that was demo and trailer. Then, roughly twice as high, was the line for trailer only.

His rationale came down to the Plan idea. The trailer plants the idea in your head that you want to play it, and so you have a plan in your head to play it. A demo allows a user to sate that plan, and so they no longer plan to play the game. Trailer only creates the plan, and forces them to buy the game if they want to act on their plan.