Next Xbox May or May Not Require Online/Allow Used Games (Update 4/25/13)

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4/25/13 Update: Always online required to function rumors persist so who knows. I guess we can only hope to find out on May 21st.

I emailed Paul Thurrott asking him about the online requirement and he responded: "I'm saying we need to wait and see what Microsoft officially says about this requirement/functionality. It's not what the conspiracy theorists believe."
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4/10/13 Edit/Update: Looks like the online requirement may be for it's companion backwards compatibility device (a new Xbox 360 mini?) only and the "no used games" rumor may be false and also stemmed from the add-on/new device, which may not have a disc drive (hence no used games...). http://www.vgleaks.com/microsoft-xbox-roadmap-2013/
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http://www.edge-online.com/news/the...hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/

Note these are just rumors as usual nothing concrete. All of it's coming to Edge from an unnamed source.

The article says that the next Xbox will require an internet connection to function. Also says that games are believed to come with an activation code, and will have no value beyond the initial user.

Frankly I don't believe it. Would MS really be this dumb to kill the entire used game market? They may want to, but to actually do it like this? I don't believe it. Maybe they will do something closer to what happens now and force a game code activation to be bought for $10 or so for a used game, but to end them all together?

Also always online? Always, in order for it to "function"?? I don't believe it.

If Sony doesn't go down this road it's going to be an automatic win for them in the next generation imo. The backlash against MS would be massive and instant. The entire linked article is basically screaming don't buy an Xbox next gen because it sucks.

Now maybe Sony is going down the same road though. In that case it could really really hurt the entire industry.

Thoughts?
 
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It is easy. Any console that does either of these 2 things and I am not buying. I have plenty of games this generation left to play and I may be jealous of some of the new games but I will still be entertained. They are going to be their own worst enemy if they do this. Why buy a "nextbox" if you have a library of 600+ games in HD that are going to cost you $20 or less? I see big problems if they choose this route.
 
[quote name='ShockandAww']
Also always online? Always, in order for it to "function"?? I don't believe it.
[/QUOTE]
I think this is a security measure to slow down or prevent piracy. Having the next xbox not fully function offline will mean everything you do will be monitored by MS which allows them to reproduce exploits and patch them quicker.
 
[quote name='cancerman1120']It is easy. Any console that does either of these 2 things and I am not buying. I have plenty of games this generation left to play and I may be jealous of some of the new games but I will still be entertained. They are going to be their own worst enemy if they do this. Why buy a "nextbox" if you have a library of 600+ games in HD that are going to cost you $20 or less? I see big problems if they choose this route.[/QUOTE]

I'm in the same boat if MS does it. Will not buy unless the console is like a dollar or something. If Sony also does something like this, I probably will still buy a PS4 but certainly not day one, or even year one. I'd wait until there was a large library of games I really wanted and could get at discounted prices. Until then I'd be fine with my PC and PS3. And by that time PC would almost certainly be well ahead of the consoles and I'd just buy a new PC over a PS4 anyway.

There's no way in hell I'd buy either if they do this and continue the $60 games trend. There'd just be no reason to when there's services like Steam or just PC games in general which you can almost always find cheaper than their inferior console versions.

Anyway like I said the article just comes off as completely anti MS. Like someone who knows exactly what everyone does not want, and then decided for some reason to say that all those things are happening. I just don't believe it's all true. It's either some Sony fanboy trying to rile people up, or someone trying to force MS to comment on next gen.
 
I couldn't have said it better myself cancerman1120. I will pick whatever one that has neither of these two things also, it would really shoot xbox in the foot because the core-gamers are a huge percent of the money made and they use the resale market as a reason to buy a game at release. If both Sony and MS both do it I will probably start pc gaming, I never like it as much as console but compared to the other options I would have to get used to it.
 
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[quote name='ShockandAww']If Sony doesn't go down this road it's going to be an automatic win for them in the next generation imo. The backlash against MS would be massive and instant. The entire linked article is basically screaming don't buy an Xbox next gen because it sucks.

Now maybe Sony is going down the same road though. In that case it could really really hurt the entire industry.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Remember Sony's patent from a few months back...the one that would effectively kill used games through the use of a "tag" of some sort either on disc or included with disc? At least Sony's solution wouldn't mandate an online connection.

If Sony/Microsoft kill used games, that's one less plus they'll have over PC games. I get a good controller, and the switch to PC only won't be that hard.
 
Well, I guess if both companies are doing something like this, I'm done with "modern" gaming. They can fuck right off with that shit.
 
How many Xbox 360 owners have their consoles online? 50-60%? There are something like 70 million Xboxes sold and 40+ million Live accounts (I think the last time I saw a stat was some time in 2012). Of course that's not an exact comparison because multiple people can game on the same console, and some users have bought multiple consoles. But say it's roughly 60%.

No way in hell Microsoft is excluding 40% of their existing customer base before the generation even starts. Just no way.

The used games thing? Maybe. I doubt it, but at least it's remotely conceivable.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']Well, O guess if both companies are doing something like this, I'm done with "modern" gaming. They can fuck right off with that shit.[/QUOTE]

This. If it's all in the name of "stopping piracy," they need to step back and compare how much money they'd be saving by a crusade against piracy and how much they'd lose when customers tell them to fuck off, and see if they offset.
 
I don't see why Microsoft would do this. Microsoft games don't use online passes and their main IPs sell so well in their first week of sales that the used market doesn't really effect them at all. They don't need to cater to third parties because without the console manufacturers EA or Activision wouldn't exist.

Also I don't think it would be that big of a backlash if this were true. There is no used market on PC yet there are plenty of gamers who buy PC games at full price. And games like Diablo III prove that making a game online only that doesn't really need be isn't gonna to effect sales much. Gamers will complain on forums before release like they always do about stuff like this but the developers know that these people are in the minority.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']Remember Sony's patent from a few months back...the one that would effectively kill used games through the use of a "tag" of some sort either on disc or included with disc? At least Sony's solution wouldn't mandate an online connection.

If Sony/Microsoft kill used games, that's one less plus they'll have over PC games. I get a good controller, and the switch to PC only won't be that hard.[/QUOTE]

Yeah they've had patents for quite some time. Even before PS3 came out I think. Hopefully they aren't going to actually put them to use. Or at least nothing so restrictive as this.

Also Jack Tretton has said he's against blocking used games and called it anti-consumer. Hopefully that is still the case. Even so he clarified that his Japanese counterparts may not feel the same. Meaning we could see it regardless of how he feels (or says he feels) about it.
 
Sony PS4 will take the same to no use of used games feature. Not sure why you all are against this (maybe because this site is for "Cheap Ass Gamers"). It's already in parctice... EA have that code you have to enter in-order to play online multiplayer. Steam games are tied to your account and you can't resell.

IMHO - I believe the price of the games will be reduce down from $60 to entice buyers when the new consoles comes out. Only this way it will support the "no used game" feature. Let's get rid of use game sales companies (e.g. - GS)!!! Also, don't forget... digital download is the future.

The always "online" features is also in practice too. Your PC is always connected online (hence you pay for ISP). Your cable box is always online (unless you really do power it off).

The only thing that I hope for is these new consoles will be backward compatible. I missed alot of good games on my old consoles that I haven't played.
 
[quote name='Methoes']Sony PS4 will take the same to no use of used games feature. Not sure why you all are against this (maybe because this site is for "Cheap Ass Gamers"). It's already in parctice... EA have that code you have to enter in-order to play online multiplayer. Steam games are tied to your account and you can't resell.

IMHO - I believe the price of the games will be reduce down from $60 to entice buyers when the new consoles comes out. Only this way it will support the "no used game" feature. Let's get rid of use game sales companies (e.g. - GS)!!! Also, don't forget... digital download is the future.

The always "online" features is also in practice too. Your PC is always connected online (hence you pay for ISP). Your cable box is always online (unless you really do power it off).

The only thing that I hope for is these new consoles will be backward compatible. I missed alot of good games on my old consoles that I haven't played.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure you understand what always online means. Not every PC game has always on DRM. What the hell does cable TV even have to do with this.
 
No used gaming = no buy from me. And I buy upwards of 25 brand new games a year.

I've got no qualms about using the money I would have used to buy a PS4 and an Xbox 720 to buy myself a nice ass computer. I prefer console gaming, but if they're going to take scummy, self-entitled business routes like this, I'll switch in a heartbeat. I'll pirate their shit too.
 
[quote name='Methoes']Sony PS4 will take the same to no use of used games feature. Not sure why you all are against this (maybe because this site is for "Cheap Ass Gamers"). It's already in parctice... EA have that code you have to enter in-order to play online multiplayer. Steam games are tied to your account and you can't resell.

IMHO - I believe the price of the games will be reduce down from $60 to entice buyers when the new consoles comes out. Only this way it will support the "no used game" feature. Let's get rid of use game sales companies (e.g. - GS)!!! Also, don't forget... digital download is the future.

The always "online" features is also in practice too. Your PC is always connected online (hence you pay for ISP). Your cable box is always online (unless you really do power it off).

The only thing that I hope for is these new consoles will be backward compatible. I missed alot of good games on my old consoles that I haven't played.[/QUOTE]

Personally I'm against it for a lot of reasons. A few:

I think it will be bad for the industry. Many people do not have the income to afford only new games, or don't have the option to always be online with their consoles.

Even someone like myself will not give a new ip much of a fair chance at full retail price because I don't want to feel like I've thrown my money away if I decide I don't like it. And now I can't even get part of my money back by reselling it? I just won't buy it to begin with.

As for Steam games, you can pretty easily find them cheaper than the console versions. And they're usually better to top it off. Like I said I'd just play Steam/PC games and ignore a console that goes down the no used games or always online road.

Also pirates won't be happy and will be constantly attacking the damn things, which may or may not be effective.
 
I was talking about this months ago when the Sony patent thing came out with a manager at Gamestop. He said at the time that Gamestop wouldn't even carry the system or new games if they went the route with the activation codes. Not sure how likely that is to happen, but if it does, I guess I better figure out what I'm going to do with my remaining $600 in Gamestop credit...probably enjoy tons of 360/PS3/Wii U games.

I won't say I'll never buy into a new game-only system, but it sure as hell wouldn't be for more than a year so the games have a chance to drop in MSRP to $20-$30. If they think I'm paying $70 for every new game (assuming it'll cost that now), they are seriously misguided.
 
Part of me thinks that they're doing this just to see how far they can push the boundaries of limiting content and usage rights by consumers. Companies have been getting away with some real shady crap with DLC, so I guess it's not too far fetched to limit used games.

Whatever the case, I don't think this will fly with consumers but I also don't think that will stop Sony and MS from trying. I've got hundreds of games left to play from this and prior generations, and the Wii U's upcoming line up looks pretty tempting. I can pass on the PS4 and Xbox 720.
 
[quote name='ShockandAww']
Even someone like myself will not give a new ip much of a fair chance at full retail price because I don't want to feel like I've thrown my money away if I decide I don't like it. And now I can't even get part of my money back by reselling it? I just won't buy it to begin with.

[/QUOTE]

Seriously, they better have full games, not demos, available for extended periods of play at kiosks at stores for people to try out.
 
[quote name='Vinny']Part of me thinks that they're doing this just to see how far they can push the boundaries of limiting content and usage rights by consumers. Companies have been getting away with some real shady crap with DLC, so I guess it's not too far fetched to limit used games.

Whatever the case, I don't think this will fly with consumers but I also don't think that will stop Sony and MS from trying. I've got hundreds of games left to play from this and prior generations, and the Wii U's upcoming line up looks pretty tempting. I can pass on the PS4 and Xbox 720.[/QUOTE]

I honestly think it will push up the value of some current gen games. Good luck getting Xenoblade Chronicles now :)
 
[quote name='JaylisJayP']I honestly think it will push up the value of some current gen games. Good luck getting Xenoblade Chronicles now :)[/QUOTE]

If both consoles do this then I won't even bother buying a console until I already have a stack of AAA games I paid $10 or less for.
 
If both ideas were implemented by both companies, I'd seriously consider jumping into PC gaming.

If only one company does it, I'll buy the other console.
 
I'm not willing to believe this yet. It really reads like a "What are the worst things Microsoft could possibly do" list that the Sony Defense Force put together.

If it is all true, I'd imagine there are details we don't know yet that will lessen the blow these policies will have. For example, the no used games thing likely has a "but ..." somewhere in the details. It will probably turn out to be some sort of option that publishers could choose to implement if they wanted to.

I'm waiting for official announcements until I'll believe anything on the PS4 or X720.
 
I feel like we should flood Microsoft and Sony's forums and websites with posts condemning this business practice.

I wanna know if this shit is real or not so I can stop saving my money on what could be worthless bags of shit passed off as next-gen consoles.
 
[quote name='GF_Eric']I'm not willing to believe this yet. It really reads like a "What are the worst things Microsoft could possibly do" list that the Sony Defense Force put together.

If it is all true, I'd imagine there are details we don't know yet that will lessen the blow these policies will have. For example, the no used games thing likely has a "but ..." somewhere in the details. It will probably turn out to be some sort of option that publishers could choose to implement if they wanted to.

I'm waiting for official announcements until I'll believe anything on the PS4 or X720.[/QUOTE]
Normally I would agree as far as rumors go, but the Sony patent application along these same lines was no rumor. Was mentioned months ago with XBOX too. It's just coming up too many times to completely dismiss anymore.
 
I am partly concerned about the talk of a "new xbox live". Does that mean the old xbox live is being replaced? What would that mean for achievements or online play? I know paying for Gold is a touchy subject on CAG but if they start messing with Gold for 360 owners after the new system comes out I will be unhappy.
 
I don't buy these either because they are terrible ideas. Always online sounds feasible because yes, so many people have broadband internet but even still, not everybody does. There are still many people that don't have access or if they do, they don't have it set up for wireless so they cant be online all the time. It's just a really easy way to eliminate a significant number of buyers.

The used game thing would also tie into this because I assume if there is some code, you will have to be online to enter it. Totally killing used games I am more likely to believe but even that sounds like BS.

I am really starting to think game companies are throwing these rumors out there because they are testing the public perception. They are seeing how far consumers are willing to bend on these things.

We screwed up when we so readily accepted project $10 dollar. I think that was the first foray into seeing how pliable we are to this type of change. The majority went along with it without a fuss and now they are pushing more and more to eliminate used games all together.
 
[quote name='Calinks']I don't buy these either because they are terrible ideas. Always online sounds feasible because yes, so many people have broadband internet but even still, not everybody does. There are still many people that don't have access or if they do, they don't have it set up for wireless so they cant be online all the time. It's just a really easy way to eliminate a significant number of buyers.

The used game thing would also tie into this because I assume if there is some code, you will have to be online to enter it. Totally killing used games I am more likely to believe but even that sounds like BS.

I am really starting to think game companies are throwing these rumors out there because they are testing the public perception. They are seeing how far consumers are willing to bend on these things.

We screwed up when we so readily accepted project $10 dollar. I think that was the first foray into seeing how pliable we are to this type of change. The majority went along with it without a fuss and now they are pushing more and more to eliminate used games all together.[/QUOTE]

Do you mean the online passes when you say project $10? I can only speak for myself, but the reason I never cared about that introduction is because I don't game online.
 
It wont happen. It would be stupid for a company to limit its audience that way. The used game thing has been discussed to no end, but the always online deal is just nonsense. There are so many people I know who play XBox or PS3 and never once connected it to the internet. Its just not something a good amount of people care about.
 
[quote name='CaptainJoel']It'll be interesting to see if all the players leaving from MS and Sony doing this kills the home console market.[/QUOTE]

Lets put it this way, if both consoles are like this, the current gen will last another 5 years....OR possibly 6 months when the "no used games" technology is abandoned via a firmware update due to poor sales.

If it's not abandoned, Nintendo will come from behind and fucking destroy the competition.
 
[quote name='hankmecrankme']And yet people will still line up like sheep when they show off that OMG AMAZING new Call of Duty or Halo for it.[/QUOTE]

Just think though, once the next CoD comes out and everyone quits playing the other one online, your game is now USELESS. no point putting it on the shelf, just throw it in the trash!
 
[quote name='Blaster man']Just think though, once the next CoD comes out and everyone quits playing the other one online, your game is now USELESS. no point putting it on the shelf, just throw it in the trash![/QUOTE]
But I need a nice coaster to put my DOUBLE XP MOUNTAIN DEW GAMEFUEL 2 LITER on. It'll work perfectly.
 
[quote name='hankmecrankme']And yet people will still line up like sheep when they show off that OMG AMAZING new Call of Duty or Halo for it.[/QUOTE]

Kinda hard to buy a console from a retailer that won't sell it because of a Manufacturer's anti-used games policy. Especially since used games policies are very lucrative.

If the NextBox or PS4 are anti-used games and/or have a shitty always online policy (i.e. not like Ubisoft's PC plans used to be) then I won't buy one or either. This isn't a me now talking, this is a me looking at potential possibilities that could happen down the road. And considering Microsoft as of late, I imagine an always online policy for them will be really shitty.
 
There are few things that I think would make me embrace this (and honestly it would soften the blow in general to gamers):

1. Make games cheaper, run regular specials on digital versions. If you are going to tie me into new, I better get a cut of your profits. $60 games are ridiculous if you are eliminating the used market/piracy. Don't make legitimate customers pay for your security, this is for YOUR bottom line, not mine.
2. Tie the game to your ID, not the system. I should be able to take my game over to a friend's place, log in and play.
3. Do not make it always on. Validate on first play, require renewal only periodically (preferably monthly, but weekly might be ok), and do it every time you start up the console and a connection is available to keep it current. If my ISP goes down, I don't want to be locked out of my console unless it is a very extended outage.
4. Offer digital versions, but don't get rid of retail. Find a happy medium, charge a fair price that balances that some games need retailer markup and digital versions do not. Retailers will never go for more expensive versions of the same game and digital sales don't need to be a profit windfall where you keep the retailer markup for yourself. I'll pay retail price for digital IF the price is low enough.
5. Another interesting idea would be the ability to "sell" games back to MS for credit, removing the license from your account. Or be able to transfer a license to someone via an interface for a small fee. I really doubt they would go for this one.

Overall, if games came in cheaper this would be a much easier pill to swallow. Somehow I don't see this happening. Both MS and Sony will use this to cut out used/piracy hits to their bottom line, but won't pass the savings on to us. We just get the inconvenience.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Kinda hard to buy a console from a retailer that won't sell it because of a Manufacturer's anti-used games policy. Especially since used games policies are very lucrative.[/QUOTE]
True, because I only buy stuff from Gamestop. Power to the Players.

Guess I'll just have to play Call of Duty on my Wii U. . .
 
[quote name='hankmecrankme']True, because I only buy stuff from Gamestop. Power to the Players.

Guess I'll just have to play Call of Duty on my Wii U. . .[/QUOTE]

If one retailer does it, others with similar policies are likely to follow suit. Gamestop and Best Buy are the two biggest culprits here. Wal-Mart sells used games, but not much, and I think that's online only.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']If one retailer does it, others with similar policies are likely to follow suit. Gamestop and Best Buy are the two biggest culprits here. Wal-Mart sells used games, but not much, and I think that's online only.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure Best Buy and Walmart will gladly sell you an iPad, even though they get zero cut of software sales there, and there is no used market. They just push accessories like mad, and they do that with everything they sell.

Gamestop's golden goose will die, but Best Buy and Walmart will be fine.
 
[quote name='hankmecrankme']I'm pretty sure Best Buy and Walmart will gladly sell you an iPad, even though they get zero cut of software sales there, and there is no used market. They just push accessories like mad, and they do that with everything they sell.

Gamestop's golden goose will die, but Best Buy and Walmart will be fine.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget shit like those expensive warranties they push on you.
 
[quote name='hankmecrankme']I'm pretty sure Best Buy and Walmart will gladly sell you an iPad, even though they get zero cut of software sales there, and there is no used market. They just push accessories like mad, and they do that with everything they sell.

Gamestop's golden goose will die, but Best Buy and Walmart will be fine.[/QUOTE]

The big difference is that retailers make good profits off iPads and Tablets. They don't on Game Consoles.
 
I buy new games unless it's an older title that's out of print but I still oppose this. Downright greedy and dickish move if this rumor is true. I don't think they'll do it though...MS can be tyrants but I don't think they'd go this far. I just hope backward compatibility is in, that is a feature I do not want to lose.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']The big difference is that retailers make good profits off iPads and Tablets. They don't on Game Consoles.[/QUOTE]
Easily fixed with this next round of systems. The hardware they are using (from the rumored specs, mind you) isn't cutting edge in the slightest. Was the Wii $250 worth of hardware? No, Nintendo made a profit off of every system sold from day one. Sony lost money on every console. So, apply Nintendo's scheme to Durango and Vorbis, and that's what we'll get.
 
If this shit really does happen then I myself will just save my console money and either buy a really pimped out PC or perhaps look into that Steam Box that is supposedly going to come out this year. While I am not a big fan of the 5-10 buck online pass to play a pre-owned games multiplayer shit, I would rather deal with something like that then be forced to pay retail for any game I wanted to play.
 
If these rumors are true, to me this is a swipe at the first-sale doctrine. Not just the gaming companies, but media content companies, in general, hate it. They see the used market as lost sales. If this is how they respond to a changing market place, I'll go buy a Ouya. Thanks for bringing us this far, but the legacy companies can rot.
 
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