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#61 Duo_Maxwell

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:04 AM

Yeah Pete tryied to out Don as Dick Whitman, "a deserter & criminal" in Season 1 I think, it did not go well for him. The "I'm off limits" comment was probably a double meaning. Referring obviously to the homophobic idea that he doesn't want Bob hitting on him, but also the fact that he doesn't want to get rolled under the bus when Bob starts to make is power plays Much like Dick Whitman has done to others in the name of Don Draper.



#62 tylerh1701

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:26 AM

After reading some more, I think you're right Maxwell.  For a senior account rep and partner, Pete is sure scared shitless by an up-and-comer like Bob.

 

Regarding Bob, I still don't think we've seen everything his character is.  Whether there's still a deeper layer to him or whether his deepest layer has been found out and now he's going to react, I think he makes a big splash in the final episode.  I don't see him just falling by the wayside now.

 

As a followup to my last comment, the general justification of Peggy's anger towards Don seems to be a mix of her not knowing all the details about Don and Ted's relationship and dealings and her infatuation with Ted leading her to blindly defending him.

 

Couple more thoughts about the last 2 episodes:

 

-I hated the way they revealed Bob was gay.  Unless I missed something, there was just a knee bump between him and Pete.  To me that doesn't send huge "GAY" signals.

 

-Everything I read right now seems to suggest Don has basically turned into a complete monster at this point, and he's at his darkest point.  The issue with Sally is a big deal and understandably tough for him, but I think Don has done some redeeming things this season as well.  He doesn't feel any more manipulative to me now then he did in the early seasons.

 

-Speaking of that issue with Sally, Don really got the short end of the stick there.  No, he shouldn't have been fooling around with the downstairs neighbor, but the many (many) coincidences it took for Sally to be in that locked apartment were like 1 in a million.

 

-Excited for the finale next week.  I'll make sure to watch it live at my mom's house (since she has cable).


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#63 Cantatus

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:45 AM

That's what I got from this situation anyway.  I don't really understand why Pete's only demand was that Bob not get too close to him.  Specifically his line "I'm off limits!".  Is this just a gay thing, and Pete's that worried about Bob coming on to him?  Or maybe it's more of a "Don't con me!" thing, and Pete thinks Bob is planning some type of con against someone...

 

I need to read a little bit more online and see what everyone else thinks, but that's what I took away from it.  I think Bob may still be a danger to Pete.

 

While Pete obviously has his problems with the homosexuality (and I'm not 100% convinced that Bob is), I think it was more about the conning.  Pete sees Bob as being similar to Don.  Don is someone who has basically pulled the wool over everyone's eyes while advancing his career and steamrolling over anyone who gets in his way.  Pete knows Bob will be similar, but Pete doesn't want to be in Bob's path of destruction.

 

But as to whether Bob is still a danger to Pete, I think that's obvious.  Bob has shown to be a completely manipulative social-climber.  I think if he sees an opportunity to take Pete out in a way that will discredit anything he says, he's going to take it.  At the same time, Pete is too smart to realize Bob is not a threat, and his not turning him in may be a "Keep your enemies closer" type of thing - unlike what he did with Don.

 

 

As a followup to my last comment, the general justification of Peggy's anger towards Don seems to be a mix of her not knowing all the details about Don and Ted's relationship and dealings and her infatuation with Ted leading her to blindly defending him.

 

Don never took Peggy leaving well, and he seems to be jealous of the relationship she's formed with Ted.  He's more or less replaced Don, and while Don has never had any romantic interest in Peggy, he's had somewhat of a complicated mentor/student relationship with her.  I think his telling the aspirin people that the ad was Frank Gleason's idea was an attempt to sabotage that relationship, and Peggy realizes that.

 

In a way, it was similar to what happened with Sally.  Sally doesn't really want Glen, but she doesn't want anyone else to have him.  When the other girl took Glen in her room, she figured out a way to interrupt it.

 

 

-I hated the way they revealed Bob was gay.  Unless I missed something, there was just a knee bump between him and Pete.  To me that doesn't send huge "GAY" signals.

 

It was more of what he said to Pete:  "If this person would do anything for you.  If your well-being was his only thought, is it impossible that you might begin to feel something for him?  When there's true love, it doesn't matter who it is."  The knee graze was just Bob's indication that he was no longer talking about Pete's Mom and Manolo, but himself and Pete.



#64 Canadian_Man

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:02 AM

In term of the Pete/Bob situation... remember how in season 1 how a client came onto Sal by suggesting he check the view from his room and giving him a suggestive grazing of the hand as they exchanged a glass? Remember that later Sal got fired after turning down Lee Garner Jr and then the business trip with Don at the hotel with the bell boy.

 

Whether Bob actually is gay or not, he may have been trying that angle on Pete. I think Pete is being smart and playing the "keep your enemies closer" card. As a partner he could fire him, but in reality cannot because Bob is well liked by the other partners on top of being the guy at Chevy. Is it possible that the Mannolo situation somehow works advantageously to Bob by keeping Pete quiet as well? Aside from the mother's potential trip, is it possible that Mannolo will no longer be an issue since Pete brought up the identity revelation?

 

 

 

As for Peggy/Ted/Don...

Spoiler



#65 cgarb84

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:22 PM

Don crying like a baby was the funniest thing I have ever seen on this show lol.


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#66 Canadian_Man

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:47 PM

Don crying like a baby was the funniest thing I have ever seen on this show lol.

I loved that too. I also liked that they brought back Pete's rifle from season 1.



#67 CaptainJoel

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:13 PM

I just watched the new episode last night and so far I think that Bob is going to get Manolo to get Pete's mom to have an accident of some sort and then Pete's going to fly off the handle and try to kill Bob with his rifle (which will end terribly for him). Then, I'm sure that Pete will be fired and Bob will quickly become one of the higher ups at the agency.

 

BTW, anyone else get really worried about Kenny getting shot? I expected him to be dead. 



#68 tylerh1701

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 04:21 AM

Yeah I thought Kenny was dead too.  


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#69 Cantatus

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:47 AM

BTW, anyone else get really worried about Kenny getting shot? I expected him to be dead. 

 

I love how they go from Kenny getting shot in the face to Don getting a phone call, then the scene immediately following was Pete getting a phone call.  They were clearly toying with our expectations.



#70 tylerh1701

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:41 AM

Im thinking we may get a cliffhanger tonight...

 

Well, I was wrong about that.

 

Pretty disappointing finale in my opinion.  I feel like the Pete/Bob/Manolo thing was kind of underwhelming, I don't understand how Pete doesn't just physically attack Bob at this point.

 

Don appears to be trying to change himself, and even though the Hershey monologue was really good, it felt out of place to me.  And even when Don is trying to be a good guy, he still ends up completely screwing his wife Megan in the process.  I think Megan is probably gone for good, which is just fine with me.

 

The Peggy/Ted relationship never fully clicked with me, probably because it was so off and on and it wasn't really thrown in our faces until last weeks episode.  I like Ted, I like Peggy, but I don't necessarily like seeming them together.  Especially with how wishy-washy Ted was about it.

 

I didn't really care for the "Don getting fired" thing either.  I understand that it was probably well deserved, but again it just doesn't feel like it fits with the show.  Sterling Cooper (the company) is an integral part of the show and I think I'd be kind of disappointed if it was written out for the final season of the show.

 

My predictions for the Season 7 premiere is Draper back at Sterling Cooper, with nothing really mentioned about his "firing" other than a quick quip from Sterling something like "I told you it was a temporary leave of absence."  (A similar thing happened with Duck Phillips, who went from president of Sterling Cooper to no longer associated with the agency during breaks between seasons 2 and 3)

 

I guess they could go the other way too, and open the Season 7 premiere with a camera pan of the new "Whitman Campbell Advertising Agency" in Los Angeles, California.

 

All in all, I thought it was a good season with a little bit of a lame duck finale.


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#71 thamaster24

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:44 AM

Who knows what direction this show will go in after tonite? My one question is pretty insignificant, will we see the Rosen family again?


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#72 tylerh1701

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:18 AM

Who knows what direction this show will go in after tonite? My one question is pretty insignificant, will we see the Rosen family again?

 

I'd guess no, unless it's some kind of smaller Paul Kinsey Hare Krishna type reappearance.  Probably won't be quite as off the wall as that was.


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#73 thamaster24

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:27 AM

I'd guess no, unless it's some kind of smaller Paul Kinsey Hare Krishna type reappearance.  Probably won't be quite as off the wall as that was.

I agree, I think we're done with them.  It just seemed like they were building up to a confrontation between Arnold and Don.

 

Also here's "Inside Mad Men Ep 613":


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#74 tylerh1701

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:35 AM

Ted's such a wimp.


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#75 Duo_Maxwell

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:41 AM

Im thinking we may get a cliffhanger tonight...

 

Well, I was wrong about that.

 

Pretty disappointing finale in my opinion.  I feel like the Pete/Bob/Manolo thing was kind of underwhelming, I don't understand how Pete doesn't just physically attack Bob at this point.

 

Don appears to be trying to change himself, and even though the Hershey monologue was really good, it felt out of place to me.  And even when Don is trying to be a good guy, he still ends up completely screwing his wife Megan in the process.  I think Megan is probably gone for good, which is just fine with me.

 

The Peggy/Ted relationship never fully clicked with me, probably because it was so off and on and it wasn't really thrown in our faces until last weeks episode.  I like Ted, I like Peggy, but I don't necessarily like seeming them together.  Especially with how wishy-washy Ted was about it.

 

I didn't really care for the "Don getting fired" thing either.  I understand that it was probably well deserved, but again it just doesn't feel like it fits with the show.  Sterling Cooper (the company) is an integral part of the show and I think I'd be kind of disappointed if it was written out for the final season of the show.

 

My predictions for the Season 7 premiere is Draper back at Sterling Cooper, with nothing really mentioned about his "firing" other than a quick quip from Sterling something like "I told you it was a temporary leave of absence."  (A similar thing happened with Duck Phillips, who went from president of Sterling Cooper to no longer associated with the agency during breaks between seasons 2 and 3)

 

I guess they could go the other way too, and open the Season 7 premiere with a camera pan of the new "Whitman Campbell Advertising Agency" in Los Angeles, California.

 

All in all, I thought it was a good season with a little bit of a lame duck finale.

 

I think you misunderstood what happened with Duck Phillips. Don't forget, the firm they have now was not the original Sterling Cooper Agency. Duck initiated an acquistion of thm by another agency (PPL) that installed him as president, then Duck/PPL was going to let Sterling Cooper be basically gutted by their largest competitior. Don threatened to resign on princple/spite but Lane Pryce got everyone out of their contracts so they all resigned & formed a new firm (SCDP) and obviously Duck was not invited along for the ride. So they were not even at the same firm, it's not as though they fired him really. Even though Duck is seemingly quickly fired from his job at the post-acquistion version of Sterling Cooper (I don't think they ever mentioned a reason in the show, but probably because he was on his way to being a loudmouth drunkard).

 

I disagree on many points from the finale, except the Ted/Peggy relationship, I hated that aspect (I don't like either character much either). I even think I fast forwarded past most of their scenes together this episode. The concept of their relationship in general doesn't make any sense to me. Peggy loves Ted because she views him as a better, kinder, gentler version of Don. Yet by engaging with him in an affair she is basically turning him into a worse person who is more like Don. Maybe that is the point but it seems rather counterproductive.

 

The Hershey story was great, and it's not out of place given the context of this season. Don always blows everything up, the only odd thing is this time he did it with the absolute truth from his own, real life. And it was not for selfish personal reasons or gain, but for actual personal improvment. My verdict is the finale was not great, but above average.



#76 CaptainJoel

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:08 PM

Well, last night was certainly disappointing. I really wanted so many different things to happen.. I am glad I was right about Pete's mom having an "accident," but without any real consequences for Bob/Manolo (or Pete!) I am really disappointed. It felt incredibly lazy. I also didn't like Ted backing out on Peggy. I really loved comparing him with Don and the one place I really wanted him to be different was where his affair was concerned. I wanted him to leave his family for Peggy and do everything right. I've got to say, I'm seriously disappointed by him pussying out.

 

Everything with Don was alright, I guess. I am beginning to get sick of the constant flashbacks, though. The Roger stuff was probably the only thing in the entire show I actually enjoyed. Seeing him trying to be the Alpha of Joan's life was fun. I really hope they can get back together since Bob's not interested in her.



#77 tylerh1701

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:09 PM

I think you misunderstood what happened with Duck Phillips. Don't forget, the firm they have now was not the original Sterling Cooper Agency. Duck initiated an acquistion of thm by another agency (PPL) that installed him as president, then Duck/PPL was going to let Sterling Cooper be basically gutted by their largest competitior. Don threatened to resign on princple/spite but Lane Pryce got everyone out of their contracts so they all resigned & formed a new firm (SCDP) and obviously Duck was not invited along for the ride. So they were not even at the same firm, it's not as though they fired him really. Even though Duck is seemingly quickly fired from his job at the post-acquistion version of Sterling Cooper (I don't think they ever mentioned a reason in the show, but probably because he was on his way to being a loudmouth drunkard).

 

I'm kind of confused by this part of your post.  Duck was made president in the Season 2 finale, but the exodus from PPL's Sterling Cooper didn't happen until the Season 3 finale.  Duck was definitely fired at some point between the Season 2 finale and the Season 3 premiere.  Like you say in your last sentence, it's certainly due to him falling back off the wagon.


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#78 Duo_Maxwell

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:46 PM

I'm kind of confused by this part of your post.  Duck was made president in the Season 2 finale, but the exodus from PPL's Sterling Cooper didn't happen until the Season 3 finale.  Duck was definitely fired at some point between the Season 2 finale and the Season 3 premiere.  Like you say in your last sentence, it's certainly due to him falling back off the wagon.

You're totally right, for some reason I forgot he was aleady working for Grey during Season 3, not Sterling Cooper. And it's deinately true that he sort of "got disappeared" from the show aside from the Peggy relationship. But yeah my guess is the crazy, drunken rant at the end of season 2 was the launching off point of his demise there.

 

Kinda makes sense that after Don's rant this season (oddly enough while basically sober) it is finally the breakling point that gets him placed on "forced indefinate leave" or whatever you'd call it and Duck is delivering the guy to supposedly replace him.


Well, last night was certainly disappointing. I really wanted so many different things to happen.. I am glad I was right about Pete's mom having an "accident," but without any real consequences for Bob/Manolo (or Pete!) I am really disappointed. It felt incredibly lazy. I also didn't like Ted backing out on Peggy. I really loved comparing him with Don and the one place I really wanted him to be different was where his affair was concerned. I wanted him to leave his family for Peggy and do everything right. I've got to say, I'm seriously disappointed by him pussying out.

 

Everything with Don was alright, I guess. I am beginning to get sick of the constant flashbacks, though. The Roger stuff was probably the only thing in the entire show I actually enjoyed. Seeing him trying to be the Alpha of Joan's life was fun. I really hope they can get back together since Bob's not interested in her.

 

How would Ted leaving his wife and kids for an affair with a younger woman be "doing everything right"? Moreover, how could you still compare him to Don as being different? If he did that he would basically be a friendlier yet whimpy version of Don with less alcohol involved.

 

Also I'm not convinced Roger was just setting out to simply get back into Joan's life. Even though he obviously tried to scare Bob off, I think that had more to do with Roger being pushed out of his real family lives and therefore he did not was to let someone else be the father figure for his & Joan's kid. Which is why at the end he accepted the concession of just being involved in the kid's life. All that aside though I could still see them in a relationship because that is who Joan will most likely rebound to, but Bob has also proven he will go to great lengths for his career. So gay or not he could string out his deceptive "relationship" with Joan for quite sometime for both stability and advancement.



#79 cgarb84

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:09 PM

I liked this finale quite a bit I have to say.  My favorite part of the whole episode (besides Don's "Hershey" monologue) was easily Pete's slamming the Camaro into reverse and knocking over that sign, that had me in stitches!


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#80 tylerh1701

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:11 PM

How would Ted leaving his wife and kids for an affair with a younger woman be "doing everything right"? Moreover, how could you still compare him to Don as being different? If he did that he would basically be a friendlier yet whimpy version of Don with less alcohol involved.

 

Also I'm not convinced Roger was just setting out to simply get back into Joan's life. Even though he obviously tried to scare Bob off, I think that had more to do with Roger being pushed out of his real family lives and therefore he did not was to let someone else be the father figure for his & Joan's kid. Which is why at the end he accepted the concession of just being involved in the kid's life. All that aside though I could still see them in a relationship because that is who Joan will most likely rebound to, but Bob has also proven he will go to great lengths for his career. So gay or not he could string out his deceptive "relationship" with Joan for quite sometime for both stability and advancement.

 

I've never loved the constant comparisons the show (mainly Peggy) has made between Don and Ted, and how they're similar and how they're different.  I actually don't think they have a ton in common, not is it important to me how Don affects Ted or vice versa.

 

Good insight on Roger.  

 

I'm still not sold on Bob Benson being gay, though I am sold on him being a complete scam artist, with Joan being his next target.  (Like you say, at the very least he's using a deceptive relationship with her for stability and support at the office.  I question if he'll take more from her as well).  

 

I liked this finale quite a bit I have to say.  My favorite part of the whole episode (besides Don's "Hershey" monologue) was easily Pete's slamming the Camaro into reverse and knocking over that sign, that had me in stitches!

 

Favorite part of the show by far for me was the line by Campbell "Not Great, Bob".

 

Wish I could find the video, .gif doesn't really do it justice.  Pete's my favorite character anymore.  

 

EDIT: here's an extremely poor video, but it has audio so it works.  Keep in mind this is after finding out that Bob may be indirectly responsible for Pete's mother being tossed over a boat.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=KTbBGYGp32s


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#81 CaptainJoel

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:54 PM

 

How would Ted leaving his wife and kids for an affair with a younger woman be "doing everything right"? Moreover, how could you still compare him to Don as being different? If he did that he would basically be a friendlier yet whimpy version of Don with less alcohol involved.

 

 

I feel like Don's biggest mistake is that he never followed through with or seriously committed to any of his more meaningful relationships so he's always looking to regain that feeling or to find something better. I think if Ted had just gotten with Peggy he would have found happiness. As things are with him right now, I expect him to basically become Don and be cheating on his wife all the time in an attempt to find a replacement for what he had with Peggy. As for what's right, that all depends on your view, but I would much rather him leave his family than having him cheating 24/7. Then again, I suppose I could be lumping him and Don together too much. I think his banging Peggy and then whimping out to move to Cali with his family is going to open a real can of worms.



#82 Cantatus

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:18 PM

I feel like Don's biggest mistake is that he never followed through with or seriously committed to any of his more meaningful relationships so he's always looking to regain that feeling or to find something better. I think if Ted had just gotten with Peggy he would have found happiness. As things are with him right now, I expect him to basically become Don and be cheating on his wife all the time in an attempt to find a replacement for what he had with Peggy. As for what's right, that all depends on your view, but I would much rather him leave his family than having him cheating 24/7. Then again, I suppose I could be lumping him and Don together too much. I think his banging Peggy and then whimping out to move to Cali with his family is going to open a real can of worms.

 

 

I think you're only further showing the difference between Ted and Don.  Don did his cheating and never really felt bad about it.  It was just something he did, sometimes casually, sometimes more seriously.  Either way, he's constantly chasing something.  Like Betty said, "He's only interested in beginnings."

 

Ted, on the other hand, realized what he was doing was wrong and felt incredibly guilty about it.  He realized he didn't want to break up his family or disappoint his children, and is learning to appreciate what he does have rather than chasing some ideal he'll never be able to achieve.  It's part of the reason Don let him take his place in California.  Ted is unlikely to cheat again, because he looks at it as a personal failing, while Don has always sort of viewed it as something he just does.



#83 tylerh1701

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:27 PM

I think you're only further showing the difference between Ted and Don.  Don did his cheating and never really felt bad about it.  It was just something he did, sometimes casually, sometimes more seriously.  Either way, he's constantly chasing something.  Like Betty said, "He's only interested in beginnings."

 

Ted, on the other hand, realized what he was doing was wrong and felt incredibly guilty about it.  He realized he didn't want to break up his family or disappoint his children, and is learning to appreciate what he does have rather than chasing some ideal he'll never be able to achieve.  It's part of the reason Don let him take his place in California.  Ted is unlikely to cheat again, because he looks at it as a personal failing, while Don has always sort of viewed it as something he just does.

 

Yeah, Don's catchphrase is pretty much "I don't think about it." when anyone asks him about his serious past transgressions.  Ted's clearly not like that at all.


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#84 CaptainJoel

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:42 PM

I don't know.. I think that Don actually thinks about it more than he lets on.