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D-Baucas sees trouble for Obamacare


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#1 egofed

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 09:17 PM

http://money.msn.com...417&id=16364741

"
WASHINGTON (AP) - A senior Democratic senator who helped write President Barack Obama's health care law stunned administration officials Wednesday, saying openly he thinks it's headed for a "train wreck" because of bumbling implementation.
"I just see a huge train wreck coming down," Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., told Obama's health care chief during a routine budget hearing that suddenly turned tense."


Who's more to blame? The Democrats who forced this through and thought that Repubs would not fight its implementation, or the Repubs for not accepting it and cocking up the roll out. Looks like just another example of big gub'ments inability to stay in budget and not create a ton of bureaucracy and unforeseen side effects with a "well meaning" expansion of its power.

#2 IRHari

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 10:00 PM

This is the dude who let his staffer from the insurance industry write the bill. Yeah, he's a guy worth taking seriously.
"People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." -Bill Clinton

#3 mykevermin

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:35 PM

Who's more to blame? The Democrats who forced this through and thought that Repubs would not fight its implementation, or the Repubs for not accepting it and cocking up the roll out. Looks like just another example of big gub'ments inability to stay in budget and not create a ton of bureaucracy and unforeseen side effects with a "well meaning" expansion of its power.


1) How was this "forced through"? Show your work.
2) Your "big government/bureaucracy" tripe is just your ideology searching for a justification for existence. What evidence do you have of this?
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#4 egofed

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:34 PM

1) How was this "forced through"? Show your work.
2) Your "big government/bureaucracy" tripe is just your ideology searching for a justification for existence. What evidence do you have of this?


1) Do you want me start with all the back door deals, special exemptions, and pay off concessions that were executed to ensure support and votes for the bill? How about Pelosi's famous (and idiotic) quote? You think everybody actually read this thing? And Obama is on video vehemently denying that it is a tax, yet his lawyers used the argument that IT IS a tax to keep it when the Supreme court heard the case.

2) You don't think that this is going to run over budget? Dems are even fighting the medical equipment tax that was supposed to help pay for ACA. If you truly believe that our gov't is always acting in our best interest in a just and efficient manner, then I can see why you want them to have the power to tell you what to buy, eat, etc. I, personally, do not believe this, and, even with all the idiots I am exposed to in my line of work, I DO believe that people should have the liberty to make their own decisions. They should have to live with the consequences of those decisions also, WITHOUT permanent gov't handouts to bail them out. Do you also believe that the tax code is not a bloated, over regulated mess?

#5 dopa345

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:16 PM

He's not the only one. Even unions are starting to realize what a bad idea it is.. As a doctor with an MBA in health care policy, I can say unequivocally, that Obamacare is absolutely going to be a disaster.

#6 UncleBob

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:33 PM

Even unions are starting to realize what a bad idea it is..


It's not their fault. Nancy said "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it." - They couldn't have known what was in the bill before it was passed.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#7 mykevermin

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:34 PM

1) Do you want me start with all the back door deals, special exemptions, and pay off concessions that were executed to ensure support and votes for the bill? How about Pelosi's famous (and idiotic) quote? You think everybody actually read this thing? And Obama is on video vehemently denying that it is a tax, yet his lawyers used the argument that IT IS a tax to keep it when the Supreme court heard the case.


I want you to back up your fucking claim. The very fact that you treat what you think as self-evident is a problem. That you so quickly jumped to a single sentence from Nancy Pelosi shows just how empirically bankrupt you are (this, despite how convinced *you* are of your own beliefs).

2) You don't think that this is going to run over budget? Dems are even fighting the medical equipment tax that was supposed to help pay for ACA. If you truly believe that our gov't is always acting in our best interest in a just and efficient manner, then I can see why you want them to have the power to tell you what to buy, eat, etc. I, personally, do not believe this, and, even with all the idiots I am exposed to in my line of work, I DO believe that people should have the liberty to make their own decisions. They should have to live with the consequences of those decisions also, WITHOUT permanent gov't handouts to bail them out. Do you also believe that the tax code is not a bloated, over regulated mess?


1) Don't ask me what I think, I didn't make the claim.
2) Again, don't treat something as self-evident when it is not, let alone act incredulous that your worldview is challenged.
3) Sweet strawman with the tax code. Why don't you ask me if I've stopped beating my wife while you're at it? Christ on a crutch.
4) Cherry picking. Tax code, Pelosi. You're a goddamned Republican see-and-say. Churning out the greatest hits like a GOP cover band, you've got no originals, my friend.

Every time you don't get into an auto accident because traffic lights are working properly, do you thank government for working efficiently and in an organized manner? When you see police controlling the flow of traffic when there's an auto broken down on the interstate, do you lament our tax dollars being spent? When your garbage and recycling are picked up on time and on schedule, do you think the free market could handle it better; do you wish that you could pay "market rate" for trash pickup, and get a bill each month, subject to the momentary whims of a regionally monopolistic industry entity, just like with your electric/gas providers? Do you wish that the free market controlled whether or not you got water in your house this month?

Government is all around you, and yet I hear all the same old complaints and general post-hoc justifications. Not a single original thought, not an iota of genuine critical thinking, just a parrot of right-wing idiocy. Utter boring, uncreative, and to be quite honest, rather depressing. The things you do complain about show that you've got nothing functioning in your fucking skull aside from what blogs tell you to bitch about - and the aspects of government that function perfectly well - that you NEVER complain about - speak volumes to just how irritatingly selective you are in your worldview.
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#8 dohdough

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 02:04 PM

He's not the only one. Even unions are starting to realize what a bad idea it is.. As a doctor with an MBA in health care policy, I can say unequivocally, that Obamacare is absolutely going to be a disaster.


As a Sexual Tyrannosaurus with a PhD in Dinosaur-style Lovemaking, I can say, unequivocally, that Obamacare is absolutely going to be a success.
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"Speaking of which, there's another elitist prick that argues constantly on the Politics forums by the name of dohdough. He's a complete douche, but at least he keeps his posts in that cesspool of useless opinions. He gets my runner-up nomination."


Thanks for the nomination for the Most Memorable CAG Villan 2012, Blade!

#9 egofed

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 02:35 PM

As a Sexual Tyrannosaurus with a PhD in Dinosaur-style Lovemaking, I can say, unequivocally, that Obamacare is absolutely going to be a success.


You are such a child.....;)

#10 egofed

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 02:50 PM

I want you to back up your fucking claim. The very fact that you treat what you think as self-evident is a problem. That you so quickly jumped to a single sentence from Nancy Pelosi shows just how empirically bankrupt you are (this, despite how convinced *you* are of your own beliefs).



1) Don't ask me what I think, I didn't make the claim.
2) Again, don't treat something as self-evident when it is not, let alone act incredulous that your worldview is challenged.
3) Sweet strawman with the tax code. Why don't you ask me if I've stopped beating my wife while you're at it? Christ on a crutch.
4) Cherry picking. Tax code, Pelosi. You're a goddamned Republican see-and-say. Churning out the greatest hits like a GOP cover band, you've got no originals, my friend.

Every time you don't get into an auto accident because traffic lights are working properly, do you thank government for working efficiently and in an organized manner? When you see police controlling the flow of traffic when there's an auto broken down on the interstate, do you lament our tax dollars being spent? When your garbage and recycling are picked up on time and on schedule, do you think the free market could handle it better; do you wish that you could pay "market rate" for trash pickup, and get a bill each month, subject to the momentary whims of a regionally monopolistic industry entity, just like with your electric/gas providers? Do you wish that the free market controlled whether or not you got water in your house this month?

Government is all around you, and yet I hear all the same old complaints and general post-hoc justifications. Not a single original thought, not an iota of genuine critical thinking, just a parrot of right-wing idiocy. Utter boring, uncreative, and to be quite honest, rather depressing. The things you do complain about show that you've got nothing functioning in your fucking skull aside from what blogs tell you to bitch about - and the aspects of government that function perfectly well - that you NEVER complain about - speak volumes to just how irritatingly selective you are in your worldview.


So I can't use verified quotes from people???? OOOoooooKKKKK.:roll:

I also never stated that we need to have zero gov't. Just a streamlined, unobtrusive as possible gov't. The complexity of the tax code was to emphasize how crazy a gov't system can become when not kept in check. I also like how you call me "a parrot of right-wing idiocy" while not acknowledging that I routinely bash Republicans for their attempts at over uses of gov'tal powers.

"Government is all around you, and yet I hear all the same old complaints and general post-hoc justifications. Not a single original thought, not an iota of genuine critical thinking, just a parrot of left-wing idiocy. Utter boring, uncreative, and to be quite honest, rather depressing. The things you do complain about show that you've got nothing functioning in your fucking skull aside from what blogs tell you to bitch about."
You see what I did there? Try not to be so depressed, pal. It appears to me that the gov't has enough people on their payroll with ever expanding welfare and immigration reform to keep the power hungry politicians in power for the foreseeable future. it should turn our country into a progressive utopia, up until the point that we run out of other people's money. Enjoy.

#11 mykevermin

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 04:16 PM

I also never stated that we need to have zero gov't. Just a streamlined, unobtrusive as possible gov't.


Boy howdy, way to stake out a controversial political standpoint. I'm sure lots of people disagree with this.

wank wank.
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#12 Knoell

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:52 PM

Funny how they go from one extreme to another. No in between, I think we just talked about how this was the problem with politics today. No middle ground, you are either in the pool or out of the pool.

"if the government can't do this, then why should it do anything" har har har

#13 Msut77

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 11:52 PM

Apparently "Politics and Sausage making" are new things and this is not just befuddled blather.
wahhhhh noone helped me so they must not help anyone. - knoell

#14 ID2006

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:06 PM

Relevant, perhaps?

...Unfortunately, in the last decade Baucus has used that power in terribly destructive ways. For instance, he has used it to sculpt what became President George W. Bush’s deficit-ballooning tax cuts; riddle the tax code with corporate tax giveaways; eliminate a public option from healthcare legislation; and champion job-destroying “free” trade deals. Just as destructive as what he has done as chairman is what he has prevented: On behalf of his biggest campaign donors he has, for instance, watered down drug reimportation legislation; “limit(ed) the drug industry’s 10-year financial exposure under healthcare reform,” according to the Hill newspaper; blocked a serious consideration of legislation to close corporate tax loopholes, and, as the Missoula Independent notes, “refused to allow any discussion of universal or single-payer health care, instead kowtowing to his donors.”

These are just some of the big things. Baucus has also been the reliable engineer of smaller but equally destructive rip-offs — most recently, a half-billion-dollar pay-to-play giveaway to a pharmaceutical company in exchange for campaign contributions...



#15 IRHari

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:13 PM

Gd rddnc
"People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." -Bill Clinton

#16 detectiveconan16

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    Look at that deal. It's so great!

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:33 PM

If there is trouble for Obamacare, it's most likely because Congress hasn't done anything to strengthen it since it was passed. Sure it's over 1000 pages, but Capitol Hill just whines about it instead of finding ways to amend it and fix it to make it more efficient. (How I miss Al Gore...)
It's like that financial reform bill, it was passed but it practically had no teeth.
It really reminds me of a Mad Magazine piece printed back in the 80s, which I recently read. Congress passes some bills, and ends up having to clean up the messes they cause.

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