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Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.


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#1831 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:24 PM

in my mind people are overreacting on rumors. only thing confermed by microsoft them selfs is semi always online. no info has come from microsoft them self on used games other then they support people that trade in and buy used games.

#1832 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:26 PM

They've said pretty clearly in interviews that restricting used games would be left up to publishers.

I think the only thing they've been wishy washy on is whether they'll restrict them for the first party games they publish.


who to saying that microsoft is not doing that same thing allowing publishers decided on the used games what they want done. people from the start was thinking microsoft was forcing it.

#1833 dmaul1114

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:26 PM

I'd agree that people are overreacting.

But it's still huge negative PR shit storm for MS to deal with, and will definitely hurt their sales if they aren't able to effectively reverse this tide at E3.

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#1834 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:27 PM

They've said pretty clearly in interviews that restricting used games would be left up to publishers.

I think the only thing they've been wishy washy on is whether they'll restrict them for the first party games they publish.

And that's not the only reason they didn't get negative PR--they didn't show a bunch of TV stuff, they didn't require an always on camera unit for the console to work etc. They focused on gaming and sharing gaming stuff on social media. MS showed hardly any gaming stuff which really irked gamers.


so gamers care about sharing stuff on social media? i freaking hate when people post game share stuff on my fb and twitter i don't give a junk about that stuff. you know ps4 will be pushing entertainment at e3 don't tell me they will not. sony e3 last year talked about it a ton.

#1835 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:30 PM

sadly the gaming industry is changing an not for the better in my mind. this day and age game companys are turning their focus to casual gamers and familys and losing eye on hardcore gamers. They are seeing how much facebook games and ipad games are growing and they want some of that market. they see entertainment and kinenct/move a way to do it. the thing is also that when microsoft/sony does stuff like tv and what not they get non stop bashed but when nintendo does it along with their gimmick garbage it's like omg sooooo coool man they know how to make a system.

#1836 dmaul1114

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:37 PM

so gamers care about sharing stuff on social media? i freaking hate when people post game share stuff on my fb and twitter i don't give a junk about that stuff. you know ps4 will be pushing entertainment at e3 don't tell me they will not. sony e3 last year talked about it a ton.


No. But at least Sony focused on the PS4 as a gaming machine, and people can easily not use the social media stuff if they don't like it.

Where as MS spent 3/4ths of their announcement on non-gaming stuff with showing the TV stuff and how it could be the hub for your whole home theater system etc. Stuff a lot of gamers don't care about, and caused concern that MS is really only focused on casual gamers. Especially when combined with them just showing EA sports games and CoD for the little the did discuss games.


sadly the gaming industry is changing an not for the better in my mind. this day and age game companys are turning their focus to casual gamers and familys and losing eye on hardcore gamers.


Definitely. And as above, MS's announcement conference was much more of a red flag in that regard than was Sony's with all the non-gaming stuff they focused on for the majority of it.

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#1837 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:43 PM

nintendo fans= microsoft copy us with all the tv stuff we were first ones to do it. non nintendo fans = um the stuff wii u does has been possible with a cable box for over 10 years now.

#1838 GBAstar

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:40 PM

^ Dude...

if MS isn't debunking these rumors then there is cause to worry. They wouldn't let these bad press and "rumors" to continue if they were just not true.

#1839 dmaul1114

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:50 PM

Yep. Best case is they were truly surprised by the backlash and are scrambling with how to change/tweak things/back peddle to undo the harm done.

Worst case is they don't give a shit and it's all true and they thing enough people won't care and will still by the Xbox 1 to keep them on top in the US.

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#1840 KingBroly

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:52 PM

Yep. Best case is they were truly surprised by the backlash and are scrambling with how to change/tweak things/back peddle to undo the harm done.

Worst case is they don't give a shit and it's all true and they thing enough people won't care and will still by the Xbox 1 to keep them on top in the US.


They've had 3 months to look at the outrage building and apparently didn't do anything. What makes people think they're going to change tactics in the next 3 weeks?

Microsoft sees, and has always seen the Xbox brand as a means to an end, Gamers to TV. To them, this is the box Bill Gates talked about when Microsoft introduced the original Xbox. This is their pipe dream, their ability to control every single piece of content you view, their ability to micro-manage you and watch/listen to you while you do whatever in front of their box.

Xbone is 100% what EA and other super-publishers are about now, boom or bust, no in-between, particularly EA. Everyone with half a brain knew that when they dropped their online passes a week before this past Tuesday that those horrible rumors we've been hearing for months had truth to them, and it shows they hate their consumers, and want gaming to have no legacy like books, movies or TV. They want your games to be completely disposable.
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#1841 Blaster man

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:54 PM

Yep. Best case is they were truly surprised by the backlash and are scrambling with how to change/tweak things/back peddle to undo the harm done.

Worst case is they don't give a shit and it's all true and they thing enough people won't care and will still by the Xbox 1 to keep them on top in the US.


Most likely they'll keep as much as they think they can get away with. The people running MS aren't idiots and they know they need early adopters. They can push for the casual market all they want but those people aren't going to buy a $500 console.

#1842 dmaul1114

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:12 AM

They've had 3 months to look at the outrage building and apparently didn't do anything. What makes people think they're going to change tactics in the next 3 weeks?


Very true. And I don't think it's likely they'll backpedal, and more likely that my worst case scenario in my prior post is reality.

Microsoft sees, and has always seen the Xbox brand as a means to an end, Gamers to TV. To them, this is the box Bill Gates talked about when Microsoft introduced the original Xbox. This is their pipe dream, their ability to control every single piece of content you view, their ability to micro-manage you and watch/listen to you while you do whatever in front of their box.


Yep. And honestly, if they or someone else can get it right I'm not opposed to it. It would simplify my home theater immensely if I could get all my entertainment from one box. I'm not as opposed to DRM as many as I'm not a collector type, find that I'm seldom replaying games, rewatching movies/tv shows or re-reading books these days. So for me, digital licenses are fine, and moving to some type of purely subscription based streaming/cloud services for entertainment makes a lot of sense.

I don't have much confidence in MS being able to pull it off though.

Xbone is 100% what EA and other super-publishers are about now, boom or bust, no in-between, particularly EA. Everyone with half a brain knew that when they dropped their online passes a week before this past Tuesday that those horrible rumors we've been hearing for months had truth to them, and it shows they hate their consumers, and want gaming to have no legacy like books, movies or TV. They want your games to be completely disposable.


Yep.

And the logical conclusion is that they dropped online passes because Sony's doing the same (or at least allowing publishers to do so) and that they have no qualms telling Nintendo to Fuck off and just not putting their games on Wii U since it's selling like shit anyway.


Most likely they'll keep as much as they think they can get away with. The people running MS aren't idiots and they know they need early adopters. They can push for the casual market all they want but those people aren't going to buy a $500 console.


It's really dependent on what Sony is doing. If they're putting the the same restrictions in place, or allowing publishers to, then they can get away with it all as there's really no realistic alternatives for the average gamer (i.e. not the hard cores on sites like this). No one gives a shit about Nintendo other than nostalgic fans (like me--but I won't by a Wii U, my 3DS is good for my Mario et al. fix). PC gaming will never bounce back as most people don't even want desktops anymore and have moved onto just having laptops and or tablets at home with desktop PCs largely relegated to offices.

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#1843 Antiques Roadshow

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:33 AM

They've had 3 months to look at the outrage building and apparently didn't do anything. What makes people think they're going to change tactics in the next 3 weeks?

Microsoft sees, and has always seen the Xbox brand as a means to an end, Gamers to TV. To them, this is the box Bill Gates talked about when Microsoft introduced the original Xbox. This is their pipe dream, their ability to control every single piece of content you view, their ability to micro-manage you and watch/listen to you while you do whatever in front of their box.

Xbone is 100% what EA and other super-publishers are about now, boom or bust, no in-between, particularly EA. Everyone with half a brain knew that when they dropped their online passes a week before this past Tuesday that those horrible rumors we've been hearing for months had truth to them, and it shows they hate their consumers, and want gaming to have no legacy like books, movies or TV. They want your games to be completely disposable.

Well said.

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#1844 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:37 AM

the thing is how do we not know it was even worse then it is now? in my mind it would be best for microsoft to release a full Q and A thing that answers all these issues before e3. If that don't happen during e3 all people will be thinking about is all the unanswered question and NOT the games they will show.

#1845 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:41 AM

i just never have been a person to get overworked over rumors. microsoft really has only said like two things is true nothing else. video game industry is one of those industrys that have so many rumors that never come true been that way since i was a kid in 80's. i think what makes me more cautious about these rumors is that not one article is the same when it breaks news. heck everyone in microsoft seem to be saying complete dif things.

#1846 tokyostomp

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:00 AM

Guys just to confirm.

No used fees right?



Depends where you buy the used game from. If you were to buy it from a Microsoft approved reseller there will be no used fee (it would included in the cost of the game purchase)

If you buy it from a 3rd party (eBay, Craigslist, friend, etc) you will have to pay a fee in order to activate it. ( If you both wish to have a playable copy)


Rumor is that there is no "fee" for giving/selling/stealing a disc in a non-sanctioned fashion.
I.E. You give the disc to a friend he can install and play the game forever. However you as the original owner cannot. Once he activates the disc, it will de-authorized said game from your gamertag. if you wanted to play from the HDD you would have to pay a "fee" in order to obtain your own valid license.

People hear fee and assume it will be sub-twenty. But judging from the interviews it will actually be closer to MSRP, in all likelihood it will be MSRP.

This ensures Microsoft/Publishers/whoever gets their cut.

Again this is not 100% accurate as MS has been a bit sketchy about the details. However it seems to most logical way for used games to work out. I'm basing it on interviews with MS reps and not outlandish rumors with no credible sources.

Edited by tokyostomp, 26 May 2013 - 01:24 AM.
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#1847 kirby145

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:05 AM

The used game thing doesn't affect me, because I only buy really good games which have good MP. They are now rarely made and usually have a $20 credit for preordering.

Most of my friends who would complain do so either because they are achievement whores or they have Gamefly. If fees were implemented, I could see problems with rentals already.

But in any case I'm pretty sure there is no used game fee. Just that only one person may have the game installed at once, which is why they require you to connect to the internet once a day. You have disc #334. You install it. You connect on day 1, noone else installed it, your game plays. Then you give disc #334 to your friend. He installs it. On day 2, you connect, it says someone else installed #334, and you must insert disc to get the rights again to play it.

They are specifically saying that sharing between people in the same house should be free, so that's why the above model makes sense.

Is this silly as hell? Yes. But it allows them to install games to hdd without you ever having to touch the disc again, unless someone else uses your disc. As of right now you must have the disc in the tray to play an installed game. Obviously a lot of people would prefer that option and stay offline. But in general, requiring people to get up and put a disc in is not intuitive. It's not next gen. They want this to be a seamless, sit on the couch, do not move experience. You watch netflix, someone invites you to a game, and you INSTANTLY enter their game. That's next gen and what the Xbox One is aiming for. They don't care about the side effect DRM.

And it actually makes the X1 competitive with PC. PC can't instantly do everything for you, switching between TV, Netflix, and game invites. With some tech knowledge I'm sure you guys could manage something, but the X1 requires no knowledge or work to make it work. Sit on couch, turn on with controller, you are signed in. You press 1 button, and the console does the work for you.

If I wanted to play offline games I'd play on my PC. But whatever, that's another story. A large market share plays games offline on their Xbox, and many only play single player in some of the best MP games available.
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#1848 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:14 AM

The used game thing doesn't affect me, because I only buy really good games which have good MP. They are now rarely made and usually have a $20 credit for preordering.

Most of my friends who would complain do so either because they are achievement whores or they have Gamefly. If fees were implemented, I could see problems with rentals already.

But in any case I'm pretty sure there is no used game fee. Just that only one person may have the game installed at once, which is why they require you to connect to the internet once a day. You have disc #334. You install it. You connect on day 1, noone else installed it, your game plays. Then you give disc #334 to your friend. He installs it. On day 2, you connect, it says someone else installed #334, and you must insert disc to get the rights again to play it.

They are specifically saying that sharing between people in the same house should be free, so that's why the above model makes sense.

Is this silly as hell? Yes. But it allows them to install games to hdd without you ever having to touch the disc again, unless someone else uses your disc. As of right now you must have the disc in the tray to play an installed game. Obviously a lot of people would prefer that option and stay offline. But in general, requiring people to get up and put a disc in is not intuitive. It's not next gen. They want this to be a seamless, sit on the couch, do not move experience. You watch netflix, someone invites you to a game, and you INSTANTLY enter their game. That's next gen and what the Xbox One is aiming for. They don't care about the side effect DRM.

If I wanted to play offline games I'd play on my PC. But whatever, that's another story. The market majority actually plays games offline on their Xbox. And I have no idea why.


mp on't make or break a game that's why. im a person that enjoys the single player experience more then mp. I guess that comes from being a gamer way before their was even internet. I could see younger people that has always had mp to be like well i like mp more. I hate games that focus more on mp then single player.

#1849 kirby145

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:27 AM

mp on't make or break a game that's why. im a person that enjoys the single player experience more then mp. I guess that comes from being a gamer way before their was even internet. I could see younger people that has always had mp to be like well i like mp more. I hate games that focus more on mp then single player.

Yes depends a lot on what you grew up with. Anyone who likes fighters would probably never be in it for the SP. Shooters are the same now, they have garbage SP, really only made playable by the coop additions.

Edit: And I will play SP for a few hours if there is Gamerscore involved.
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#1850 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:32 AM

i have always enjoyed cod single player stories an bf3 story was pretty good

#1851 dmaul1114

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:32 AM

the thing is how do we not know it was even worse then it is now? in my mind it would be best for microsoft to release a full Q and A thing that answers all these issues before e3. If that don't happen during e3 all people will be thinking about is all the unanswered question and NOT the games they will show.


That's exactly why all this negative PR is so bad for MS.

They're behind the eight ball now and will have a hard time getting the focus back on the gaming with all the discussion of the used game restrictions, DRM, forced connect, need for internet authentication of games and only really focusing on TV stuff etc.

Instead of just being able to showcase games, they'll probably get hammered about all that stuff in E3 interviews as it's unlikely they'll be able to dispell it all by then as it seems like they don't internally know how to proceed with all this crap after getting this huge backlash.

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#1852 kklems

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:05 AM

The used game thing doesn't affect me, because I only buy really good games which have good MP. They are now rarely made and usually have a $20 credit for preordering.

Most of my friends who would complain do so either because they are achievement whores or they have Gamefly. If fees were implemented, I could see problems with rentals already.

But in any case I'm pretty sure there is no used game fee. Just that only one person may have the game installed at once, which is why they require you to connect to the internet once a day. You have disc #334. You install it. You connect on day 1, noone else installed it, your game plays. Then you give disc #334 to your friend. He installs it. On day 2, you connect, it says someone else installed #334, and you must insert disc to get the rights again to play it.

They are specifically saying that sharing between people in the same house should be free, so that's why the above model makes sense.

Is this silly as hell? Yes. But it allows them to install games to hdd without you ever having to touch the disc again, unless someone else uses your disc. As of right now you must have the disc in the tray to play an installed game. Obviously a lot of people would prefer that option and stay offline. But in general, requiring people to get up and put a disc in is not intuitive. It's not next gen. They want this to be a seamless, sit on the couch, do not move experience. You watch netflix, someone invites you to a game, and you INSTANTLY enter their game. That's next gen and what the Xbox One is aiming for. They don't care about the side effect DRM.

And it actually makes the X1 competitive with PC. PC can't instantly do everything for you, switching between TV, Netflix, and game invites. With some tech knowledge I'm sure you guys could manage something, but the X1 requires no knowledge or work to make it work. Sit on couch, turn on with controller, you are signed in. You press 1 button, and the console does the work for you.

If I wanted to play offline games I'd play on my PC. But whatever, that's another story. A large market share plays games offline on their Xbox, and many only play single player in some of the best MP games available.


This would be a reasonable solution and it is already similar to what they have in place for Xbox 360. And it makes sense when you think about instant switching between media.

#1853 6er

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:55 AM

Let's look at what had to happen to make the Xbox One. Your a fly on the wall of a board meeting.......and you hear something to the effect of:

Hey guys, I got an idea.

Let's make a new console, with bassackwards features that are so convoluted that it enrages and/or confuses everyone, Whose main purpose, which will bewilder everyone under 30 as their generations run in droves from the cable companies to internet TV, is to watch Price is Right and serves as a supplement to a cable box someone must rent in order to gain it's potential, but of course, only with select providers so we can alienate a huge customer base. It will also be watching your every move, listening to your every whisper when your near, like the homicidal computer on 2001: A Space Odyssey. We will made it look like the black monolith in the same movie, but on its side just to remind everyone that it will kill them in jealous "Rage". We will also make it force connect to the internet every 24 hours, so when if "the angry hackers" show up it will make the PSN outage a few years ago look like a simple ordeal and misunderstanding.

Let's also make it underpowered out of the box, and if developers want full potential, they must write some complicated code that draws in a different set of shadows, textures, and light, only when a sufficient internet connection is detected, burning through any bandwidth limits they might have, but of course, one of our department heads will go around stating this, and that it will be up to the developers to figure out just how to pull it off.

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#1854 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 04:34 AM

Let's look at what had to happen to make the Xbox One. Your a fly on the wall of a board meeting.......and you hear something to the effect of:

Hey guys, I got an idea.

Let's make a new console, with bassackwards features that are so convoluted that it enrages and/or confuses everyone, Whose main purpose, which will bewilder everyone under 30 as their generations run in droves from the cable companies to internet TV, is to watch Price is Right and serves as a supplement to a cable box someone must rent in order to gain it's potential, but of course, only with select providers so we can alienate a huge customer base. It will also be watching your every move, listening to your every whisper when your near, like the homicidal computer on 2001: A Space Odyssey. We will made it look like the black monolith in the same movie, but on its side just to remind everyone that it will kill them in jealous "Rage". We will also make it force connect to the internet every 24 hours, so when if "the angry hackers" show up it will make the PSN outage a few years ago look like a simple ordeal and misunderstanding.

Let's also make it underpowered out of the box, and if developers want full potential, they must write some complicated code that draws in a different set of shadows, textures, and light, only when a sufficient internet connection is detected, burning through any bandwidth limits they might have, but of course, one of our department heads will go around stating this, and that it will be up to the developers to figure out just how to pull it off.

HEY JIM! THATS A GREAT IDEA!

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where o i start with this one lol. The tv thing should work with every cable box and not just certain providers seeing it's hdmi in and out. i have had 3 cable companys and all work with my home theater system that has the same guide thing x1 offers. 2. x1 is not underpowere if you compare it to ps4 yes the cpu is a bit faster on ps4 but with that said cpu is not the biggst thing when it comes to games theyy are pretty much equal. just unhook kinect when system is not on boom mic and cam is off.

#1855 6er

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 04:40 AM

where o i start with this one lol. The tv thing should work with every cable box and not just certain providers seeing it's hdmi in and out. i have had 3 cable companys and all work with my home theater system that has the same guide thing x1 offers. 2. x1 is not underpowere if you compare it to ps4 yes the cpu is a bit faster on ps4 but with that said cpu is not the biggst thing when it comes to games theyy are pretty much equal. just unhook kinect when system is not on boom mic and cam is off.


Ram. you forgot ram. and no, the PS4 is "a bit faster" if you consider 34% more to be "a bit faster". we are talking the SAME processor....not even similar architecture, the SAME architecture design. The PS4's DDR5 will boost framerates alone if everything else was the same. And the issue with the Ram is the One has a LOT of crap going on in the background. Open a bunch of programs in the background of your PC or phone and check your RAM usage before and after. The One is designed to keep that stuff in the forefront for instant switching, meaning its also always using it. Granted they make have some great code to do a fast loading hibernation type thing, but at the speed it was switching, I seriously doubt its writing to disk(it it does, what they showed us was a lie unless it comes with a 500GB SSD.....LOL) It can't use all that RAM if its already being used. And remember also, its using a stripped down WINDOWS KERNAL.....as in I just had 3 security updates to download because my PC has been off for 3 days WINDOWS KERNAL. We could be looking at an awful PS3 style update structure unless its....gasp....always on. (more like: a middle of the night self update.....which plays back into everyone's HAL fears "DAAAAAVE....I'm done updating.....PLAY ME DAAAAVE"
)

And I'm talking about cable providers for stuff like on demand. if it cant access your on demand and PPV cable stuff, it loses a lot of functionality right there. The providers each use their own system and network and code, which is why you can't access on demand section with you use a Cable CARD instead of a Box. So you would have to them start using the box itself again to access the OD stuff if your provider isnt fully supported.

I was really hoping to see something strong show up. Competition is good for the consumer. I was wanting to see What I was going to be rushing to get to play Forza 5 on. I was a HUGE GT fanboy until Forza 4 finally won me over. Forza series evolves a CRAPLOAD faster than GT does. But after that press conference....

34% is roughly to the overall difference between a nVidia 660Ti and a 680 in several areas

Edited by 6er, 26 May 2013 - 04:54 AM.

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#1856 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 04:54 AM

first party games might look better on ps4 then say first party x1's but when it comes to 3rd party they will look pretty much the same seeing companys use the same fram rate on each system. heck this gen ps3 was wayyy more powerful then 360 but alot of times games played better on 360.

#1857 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 04:56 AM

ddr 5 really only shows impact over ddr 3 when tons of things are going on at once and even then a naked eye will not see the dif. if you look side by side list that we posted many times here you would see only thing ps4 does better that in end will matter is that ps4 gpu/cpu uses about 300 more bits. in the end this gen will come down to exlusives and that's it. lets be honest both ps4 and xbox ones are already behind in tech.

#1858 KingBroly

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:00 AM

where o i start with this one lol. The tv thing should work with every cable box and not just certain providers seeing it's hdmi in and out. i have had 3 cable companys and all work with my home theater system that has the same guide thing x1 offers. 2. x1 is not underpowere if you compare it to ps4 yes the cpu is a bit faster on ps4 but with that said cpu is not the biggst thing when it comes to games theyy are pretty much equal. just unhook kinect when system is not on boom mic and cam is off.


If you go by the specs sheet, TV only works with the latest cable boxes.
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#1859 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:03 AM

xbox 360 runs on a redone version of windows x1 will update the same

#1860 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:04 AM

If you go by the specs sheet, TV only works with the latest cable boxes.


who does not have a updated cable box? it takes two secs to call your tv provider to get a updated box. but to be honest i doudt i will ever use my x1 to watch tv at first it will be cool but most of the time when im home i have my tv on and i will not want my x1 being on all that time heck i have a 360 slim and get scared to leave it on for long time.