CAGcast #332: Delete This Show

CheapyD

CheapyD

Head Cheap Ass
Staff member
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The CAGcast crew talks Indie Games and Microsoft, EVE Online, Apple Store secrets and RAM.  Gotta have RAM.
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Show Linkage/Notes:

Intro/Outro: Bounce That - Girl Talk / GI Joe PSA

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I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.

Here are some games I've played live on Twitch:

Euro Truck Simulator 2

http://www.twitch.tv/cheapassgamer/c/2598133

Rogue Legacy

http://www.twitch.tv/cheapassgamer/c/2564045

 
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After listening to the CAGcast backlog for the 3rd time,

I've noticed that Shipwreck was mentioned as early as CAGcast 43ish? I don't know if we've ever heard of how you guys met?

Could you fill us in Cheapy? Shipwreck?

 
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Everybody met through CAG.  Wombat contacted me to do a radio show and this is how far we got.

 
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well be honest. Wombat used Howard to sucker you in.. Anyway, its fun to listen to those old shows. Loading times was one concern back then. Man times have changed.

 
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the game sectioning is something I really want for the new xbla, but genre division can quickly become more of a problem than it's worth.  can I just get the music/rhythm, sports and indie games in their own sections?  I am so tired of all the rockband dlc... 

 
I wouldn't have a problem going to and all digital library, but the storage is a real killer;  bluray rips are huge!  and would the console marketplace take pc's lead and release a $10-15 cheaper product?  probably not.

 
I've still got my fingers crossed that Sony is about to announce they're scrapping the PS4 bluray drive in favor of an easy bake pizza oven. Who wants disc when you've got dough?  

Also: Wombat please don't buy a mac air for $1,000.00 when you can buy a gaming laptop that'll run steam for the same price.  

BTW:  Cheapy, you HAVE to connect your ubber remote to the toilet!!  Just think of comedy value you are going to miss out on whenever you're hosting guests (especially westerners) and you'll understand.  

PS:  There is an Airsoft store across the street from my place; however, where Japan gets it wrong and America gets it right is that we also have real gun stores loaded with real heavy guns which shoot real bullets.   

9393123518_d95554024a.jpg


 
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Hey Ship, that place where you shoot the zombies doesn't use real bullets..... I've never been there, but I work with a bunch of gun totting guys who have and they use:

Simunition FX® (non-lethal, non-toxic) ammo is used worldwide by military, police, SWAT, hostage rescue and other elite agencies for its phenomenal realism and the training opportunities it offers. Civilians can’t buy it. But now they CAN shoot it at Shoot Extreme!

 
urge26 said:
Hey Ship, that place where you shoot the zombies doesn't use real bullets..... I've never been there, but I work with a bunch of gun totting guys who have and they use:

Simunition FX® (non-lethal, non-toxic) ammo is used worldwide by military, police, SWAT, hostage rescue and other elite agencies for its phenomenal realism and the training opportunities it offers. Civilians can’t buy it. But now they CAN shoot it at Shoot Extreme!
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Oh, well that's kind of neat. The commercials I've heard don't explain that well enough for blaster users like me.

 
Indie Games has become a really weird thing. As far as I care, if the game is good I'm happy. If it sucks, I don't want it.

Minecraft: Xbox 360 Edition isn't made by Notch, it was ported by 4J Studios and published by Microsoft Game Studios. Is Microsoft Game Studios Indie now? Honestly, I don't care. The game is fun and I like it.

 
Cheapy, why do you still need your old tv remote after purchasing this new one? It seems like a shitty $400 remote if it can't replace your old one completely...

 
Definitely agree with Wombat on the navigation issue.  When I need to go change setting on the PS3, it is always a hunt.  The 360 stuff is all pretty contained and easy to find.  I also think the way Sony and MS approach their systems is making me lean toward the XBOX One.  MS seems to add game changing infrastructure with each system and Sony seems to play catch up.

The original XBOX had a broadband only online system that was poo-poo'ed by pretty much every gaming journalist as being too exclusionary.  The PS2 had dial up and broadband, but in reality, the vast majority of games were broadband only because of lag.  The original XBOX also had the first online console store with XBOX Live Arcade.  The 360 launched with achievements.  Now everyone has them.  The 360 was the first one to get Netflix.  Now it would be weird to not have Netflix on a system.  From there, the 360 has gotten app after app and so has everyone else.  Even though MS gets a a lot of hate for not working with Indies, they have the only console with a dedicated indie channel. Sony has played it safe and that's fine, but I want something more than a 360 or PS3 with better graphics.  

I like MS' vision of expanding the console beyond games only.  I simply can't understand why people constantly complain about added features and just want a system that plays games.  The TV functionality is intriguing to me and I think the voice commands are something Sony is going to adapt down the road.  I am still waiting for a bit more information before pulling the trigger, but MS' track record of pushing forward is compelling.   

 
Journey developers have already made money.  Sony funded them.  It's only a few months ago that they started to receive royalties.  So now they're receiving more money with each game that's sold.  Of course Sony isn't going to give them royalties for the game until they get the money they funded back.

The $5.5 million that thatgamecompany received from investors, that's going to have to be paid back before they start getting royalties for whatever the new game is.

 
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I know that for games the current kinect is pretty much a joke, but I use the voice commands every day when I use my 360.  It works 99% of the time and I am seriously impressed EVERY TIME I use my voice to pause a movie or tell my xbox to shut down.  I hope the next kinect works better for games, but as long as I can talk to my system, I will probably keep being impressed with it.  I am glad that Microsoft is including it with each system.

 
Show 332 Notes:

2:45 Cheapy jumps on the Logitech Harmony bandwagon
6:30 Cheapy's secret: How he f**ed his p**** at the Apple Store
9:30 Show Feedback
10:00 - Transformers, Pacific Rim, Despicable Me 2
13:30 Watch This: The Conjuring
16:30 - Bourne Legacy
18:15 Cheapy's night out; Gun stuff in Japan/US
22:00 New Releases
22:00 - Earthbound, Shantae, Roll in the Hole, Shadowrun Returns,

Smurfs, Nascar, Undead Bowling
25:00 EVE Online
28:45 Mercenary Kings
31:15 Evoland
34:00 Dungeon Hearts
35:00 The Swapper
37:45 Mario & Luigi Dream Team
40:45 Sim City sales
44:30 MS clarifies/changes indie plans; Gaming media coverage; indie games; gaming forums
1:07:15 PS4 RAM rumours
1:11:30 Chromecast
1:13:00 Cagbag
1:13:30 - WiiU
1:15:45 - MS launch controversy
1:20:30 - Why is Wombat getting a XB1 first?
1:23:30 - Digital releases before physical releases?
 
When Shipwreck was talking about Evoland I kept thinking of "A Link To The Past" and how you warp from light to dark to get stuff done, or even Metroid Prime 2.

 
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I waited until Wombat asked the scintillating question, "Is Valve indie?" to delete this show.

Spinning positive X1 news into negative X1 news by saying the only people who care about smaller games are on messageboards is reductionism at its finest.

The weird thing is, you guys pretty much talked only about indie games for the hour preceding this.

 
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I got a new laptop and downloaded Steam just for Mercenary Kings. I couldn't wait for the PS4 version.

I bought Rogue Legacy while I was waiting for Mercenary Kings.

As a huge Castlevania fan, I can easily say this is a must buy for Metroidvania fans. I love all the upgrades and abilites you can get for your character. It took  me 16 hours to finish my first playthrough and want to play more.

Mercenary Kings is weird in the beginning of the game. You have to get used to the mechanics of the game. Once you get some cool weapon upgrades it gets a lot better. It has 60 missions and there are some bugs. The final game will have 100 missions.

Also Cheapy should checkout The Wolverine, it was filmed around around Tokyo Tower.

 
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Wombat sounds like he's got a real chip on his shoulder during that indie games section...like one year Indie Games had a sweet He-Man themed birthday party with an ice cream cake and a Slip 'n Slide (a genuine Wham-O product) and everybody from his class was invited except him and ever since he's had a grudge against Indie Games.

To my mind, the main factors that contribute to a game's indie status are:

  • funding source
  • budget
  • development team size
  • publisher
  • coupling between creative and financial decisions
So a pure indie game is self funded, has a small budget, is created by a small team, is self published, and the creative vision is divorced from financial decisions (other than the reality of either running out of money or putting out a game you aren't fully convinced is finished.)  Because of the nature of modern gaming there are very few games that meet all of these criteria, but the last one is probably the most important.  It's often what makes a game FEEL like an indie game and why most big budget games don't (as it's rare that someone is willing to fork over a large sum of money and not want to be involved in decisions.)  A good example of this is Journey...it was funded and published by Sony as a Sony exclusive but it still manages to feel like an indie game.  Our lexicon for describing games fails us in this regard, but I think it all comes down to whether or not it feels like a corporate entity is coming between a developer's creative intent and our gameplay experience.

 
Glad to hear you are enjoying EVE Cheapy.  It may be daunting at first but it is a truly unique experience.  Be sure to check out the Alliance Tournament XI videos on the CCP twitch channel.  The tournament gives a good sample of small gang PvP by some of the best pilots in the game.  Great show guys and keep up the transformers movie hate.

 
Wombat, come on! I think you may be generalizing indie games a bit much. You have of course played and enjoyed indie games. When people say indie games they actually don't always mean "indie", pretty much anything on XBLA (that isn't funded by a publisher) would be considered indie ie Bastion.

 
I keep forgetting you guys are around my age group. Yes I watched Transformers as a kid. The movie probably resembles the newer versions of the animated series more than the original. Could it have been better, sure. But sometimes nostalgia gets the better of us, like republicans pining for the old days. I am sure you would have enjoyed (the rubber suits and cardboard box) 80's version more cause you had more of an imagination then. Anyway, I was more of a Voltron and Robotech fan (thanks to military friends and family) than a transformers fan.

As for airsoft in the US; we have 100% replicas but they have red tips so law enforcement can identify them as toys. BTW airsoft guns probably have more catastrophic failures than modern guns. Unless you are talking about black powder weapons. Guns kill and maim people but usually by projectiles out the business end. A carrot in the barrel is not going to cause it to backfire. Oh and you can thank America for the lack of guns in Japan. Japan is probably the most powerful country without nuclear weapons too. Disclaimer: I own assault rifles and handguns for my own amusement and 1 in a billion chance of Zday. I would gladly give up my weapons to honor a ban from the government. You'd have to be a lunatic to think they are for protection from tyranny. And if you ban guns obviously you wouldn't need them to protect yourself from gun violence. 

Eve=Space Combat

Indie games have no achievements. That's how I separate them from real games. If it has cheevos then the game has transcended the indie boundaries. 

As always good show. You probably need to post an article like "MS is a big stupid doo doo head," to bring back some of your loyal listeners. 

 
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Blah right when I started to like Wombat again he has to say some of the most ignorant things I have ever heard anyone say about gaming. You hate indie games because you hate hipsters..... I'm starting to think he just hates anything he doesn't immediately recognize by the name. Besides Wombat being a douche towards the end it was a great and entertaining episode. I'm really happy you guys have been talking more about pc gaming. That's where I do most of my gaming, so its nice to hear you guys talk about it more. I think I'm going to go pick up Evoland now because of Shipwreck.

Good Job Cheapy and Ship........... Wombat.....well...... w......O...M....b...a.tttt

 
When discussing if major movie releases come to digital weeks before retail how did Wombat fail to cite the infamous Evil Dead ad? That was the whole point. Get it on Xbox Video before it comes out on DVD.

 
Here's some show feedback and a comment for the podcast thread. 

Since Wombat is always complaining that not enough people comment on the thread.

Well, worked for me, after a few weeks in a row saying there were few active listeners, I'm here to fully support the WPN (wombat podcast network).

Anyways, great one this week again guys. Love the show, helps my day at work fly by. 

 
I have just one thing to say

"It's log."



"What rolls down stairs alone or in pairs
Rolls over your neighbor's dog?
What's great for a snack and fits on your back?
It's Log, Log, Log!

It's Log, Log, it's big, it's heavy, it's wood.
It's Log, Log, it's better than bad, it's good!
Everyone wants a log! You're gonna love it, Log!
Come on and get your log! Everyone needs a Log!"


:)
 
I think you guys way underestimate the importance of indie games (however you want to define them.)  Games like State of Decay, Fez, Minecraft, Trials, Castle Crashers, Bastion, Limbo, Braid, Sword & Sworcery, Super Meat Boy, etc. have made MS tons of money and earned the XBLA platform a ton of respect among gamers.  The more barriers MS puts between these games and the audience reduces the chance that the XBox will the platform on which these games have their breakthrough.  Cheapy the chances that there will ever be another Minecraft are slim to none.  He couldn't be more wrong.  The chances that there will be a small, out of nowhere games that does huge numbers in the next generation is pretty much a sure bet, it's just a matter of what platform it will launch on.

You also ask why people care about the indie changes, saying well i can understand why this guy who makes games that wrote in cares, but why does anyone else care, but the fact is if something is deterring someone from making a game on the platform that means we won't get to play it.  Apparently people who listen to the show like to play games that the people who make games are making.  What's bad for them is eventually bad for us.

 
Enjoyed the show, but when Wombat was explaining his reasoning for ordering his Xbox One and keeping it as such felt a bit contrived to me. I will believe he has a strong preference for the Xbox and the controller, but his unwillingness to even consider cancelling his preorder made me feel that this choice was already preordained, but I'm sure I am wrong.

I'm honestly glad for people who go off the handle about issues like AngryJoe, who are just so passionate about their hobby that they explode with rage. It's entertaining to be sure, but at the core can bring up valid points that others do care about when it comes to purchases of consoles and video games for that matter.

If the Xbox One will truly become a debug machine with the newest changes to polices allowing self-publishing for Indie developers, I'm actually really excited about it and look forward to seeing what I could do personally with the equipment, once the program has been detailed and the hardware is actually released.

 
I think Wombat's idea of what "indie" games are is a bit off.  One problem with the way that Microsoft currently runs Xbox Live is that they require a notable publisher to get your games out on Xbox Live Arcade.  Therefore games that would technically be self funded - self published games are forced to make a publishing deal and split the sales revenue with them.  Hopefully they are getting something out of the deal such as marketing or QA testing but it's still an extra step you have to take.  Naturally the publishers are more likely then not going to try to wrestle as much control away from you as possible since the only way you are getting your game on the marketplace is to make a deal with one of them.  Allowing self publishing means that these companies can get their games on the marketplace without publisher interference or the potential loss of rights to the property and revenue.  For example games like Super Meat Boy, Castle Crashers, Braid, Fez and Retro City Rampage are indie games that were forced to get a publisher to publish on XBLA and are self published on other platforms that allow it like Steam.

What Wombat seems to think will happen is that all the large amount of crap that is on the Xbox Indie games channel will suddenly get top billing in the new Microsoft "games are games" store.  This is not the case.  The Microsoft games store is the only place where you currently do not require a publisher and in fact Microsoft does very little monitoring of the games that are put on there.  The games are tested and rated for content by the community of XNA creators and then released on the channel.  This program has been eliminated and will not be present in Xbox One.  

Allowing self publishing does mean you will be overrun with crap.  There will still be an approval process run by Microsoft that you will need to go through to get your game on the marketplace.  It just means that now game creators will be allowed to maintain complete control of the game as well as a larger cut of the revenue.  

The Xbox One allowing self publishing is nothing but good for the platform. 

 
I thought the show was great, guys.   My only slight complaint would be to skip anything dealing with the gun control debate, or politics in general. Unless it's video game related, like Australia's changes to their game ratings.

As for the CAG commenters, guns are a deterrent of tyranny.  The idea that 70 to 100 million people are armed to the teeth weighs, in some part, on the minds of our congressional members and senators.  This is why guns will never be banned, besides, banning them doesn't mean they're vaporized, it just means that everyone who keeps their gun is a criminal.  A super trust-worthy criminal....

Oh, and we do have realistic airsoft guns,  even 1:1 scale replicas, but they generally have the little orange tip on the barrel. 

Lastly, $1000 can buy a lot of computing power, assuming it doesn't have an Apple logo on it.  Keep up the good work, gentlemen!

 
Hey guys,

I think Wombat should do a Kickstarter or at least have CAG put up a PayPal donation link. I don't know what the problem is. You guys keep making fun of this idea in the past with PennyArcade doing a Kickstarter, but let's be real here.

It's obvious Wombat isn't as financially "well-off" as Shipwreck or CheapyD or PennyArcade. What is wrong with Wombat fans giving money to Wombat for the YEARS of quality free entertainment.

I pay over $100 a month for generally crap TV entertainment to my local cable TV company. Wombat is my favorite online personality and he is the main reason I think the CAGcast is the best hour of entertainment I consume EVERY WEEK.  

What's wrong with fans donating money to show our appreciation and paying for the hundreds of hours Wombat has entertained us over the years? This isn't Communist Russia, this is capitalism. People should get paid for quality great work vs. working for free.

I'm generally the cheapest guy around, looking to find the best deals/coupons, but I would go out of my way to give Wombat money for all the entertainment he has given me.  I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of Wombat fans willing to do the same.

So please get off your high horse and let us PAY HIM in a small way for all the time and effort over the past few years he has entertained us.  It's obvious Wombat could use the money, CheapyD needs to get off his high horse and let us do it.

 
At the very least we should set up a Wombat Fan Appreciation Kickstarter, even with a modest goal of $2,000 so he can buy a new faster laptop. That would make a quality difference in Wombat's daily life and I'm sure he would appreciate it.

If Wombat is too sheepish to set it up himself (he should NOT BE), I'd be willing to set it up.  CheapyD should really do it however for all the years Wombat has given in service to this site.

Note it's not the actual dollar amount or the laptop that matters, I know CheapyD has been generous in past to Wombat giving him gifts like the PS3, but the real thing is giving Wombat fans the opportunity to show their appreciation.

 
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Hey guys,

Any interest in the Indie Game: The Movie DLC? I just downloaded it and its a nice addition to the package. After this week's episode, I'm sure Wombat would love it. 

 
firstadopter said:
At the very least we should set up a Wombat Fan Appreciation Kickstarter, even with a modest goal of $2,000 so he can buy a new faster laptop. That would make a quality difference in Wombat's daily life and I'm sure he would appreciate it.

If Wombat is too sheepish to set it up himself (he should NOT BE), I'd be willing to set it up. CheapyD should really do it however for all the years Wombat has given in service to this site.

Note it's not the actual dollar amount or the laptop that matters, I know CheapyD has been generous in past to Wombat giving him gifts like the PS3, but the real thing is giving Wombat fans the opportunity to show their appreciation.
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The only problem I could see with all this is that other gaming journalists/personalities would start using in as a crux to get new recording equipment. That or, they would look down at CAG for going through with something like that in general. Of course I'm just speculating here, but that's what I could imagine it could turn into.

As far as giving Wombat money...I would easily be willing to donate some funds. I listen to both his shows weekly and his time is worth something. It's just unfortunate that the way it would be looked at by other communities is begging for money.

 
Cheapy, not all gun control stories are as nice as it has turned out in Japan:

Turkey - From 1915 - 1917 there were 1.5 million Armenians killed after gun control enacted in 1911

Soviet Union - 1929 - 1953 there were 20 million dissidents killed after gun control enacted in 1929.  Same in China from 1948 - 1952 after gun control started in 1935.

Uganda - From 1971 to 1979 there were 300,000 Christians were killed after gun control enacted in 1970.

Cambodia - From 1975 to 1977 there were 1 million educated people killed after gun control enacted in 1956.

The US government is set up with a system of checks and balances - the right to keep and bear arms is the final check and balance.  It is to ensure that a tyrannical ruler does not impose his/her will on the masses.

Quit whining about the fact that you have to have a orange tip on a gun.  There are replica airsoft guns here too, but they have the orange tip so that cops don't kill the kids pointing the gun at them.  Boo Hoo, what a pathetic excuse for a complaint.

You say that you were in a bar and drinking, but don't mention how alcohol adversely affects society - why?

 
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Bluesilo said:
The only problem I could see with all this is that other gaming journalists/personalities would start using in as a crux to get new recording equipment. That or, they would look down at CAG for going through with something like that in general. Of course I'm just speculating here, but that's what I could imagine it could turn into.

As far as giving Wombat money...I would easily be willing to donate some funds. I listen to both his shows weekly and his time is worth something. It's just unfortunate that the way it would be looked at by other communities is begging for money.
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Why is it begging for money? It's "Wombat Fan appreciation" for the hundreds of hours he worked for free entertaining us over the past decade.

It's unfair really, you can tell Wombat could use the money, while CheapyD and Shipwreck talk about buying $400-500 remote controls they don't need and Shipwreck having so many "rooms" in his mansion he doesn't even use. Those two are like "nah let's not get paid.. it's beneath us"

Let us donate money to Wombat. Let us show our appreciation. Let us do it. Come on!

 
I think the difference is I'm not saying we should set this up for him to get a new computer to work on the podcast.

I'm saying we should do this as "fan appreciation", so he can use the money for whatever he wants. Even if it is just $2,000. That make sense?

 
If we knock out Bastion for the WB ties, there would be few games XBLA that could be considered indie. Microsoft requires a publishing partner to get on the service. To the best of my knowledge, Bastion's development was independently funded and WB came in very late on the project and was just there for the distribution and any marketing (PAX booth, bandana swag, etc).

 
Indie games are games developed by a single person or small team of developers. They tend to be more abstract and creative, possibly because that person or small team is able to focus and implement that unified vision of the game better. Games with dozens of designers, artists, programmers and writers are no way able to communicate with each other as efficiently and no way able to all have that unified vision of what the game will be. 

 
Hey Shipwreck, I was just listening to the latest Giant Bombcast and they spent the first 40 minutes or so just talking about GI Joe, Transformers and baseball cards. I immediately thought you would get a kick out of that combination. They also brought up a critical question...

Zartan: Hair or Hood?

 
Haha, the 2nd amendment is meant to arm militias not every American citizen. It was also written at a time when most weapons were created equal. Nowadays the most well armed civilians couldn't stand toe to toe with the ATF, i.e. Wako, must less a military force. It wasn't long ago you could bitch slap Barney Fife and run him off your property. Present day Barney would come back with SWAT and turn you home into swiss cheese. A closer comparison of gun control in a Democratic union like America would be with Australia. If your gun entitlement helps you sleep at night that's OK. In reality, if Monsanto or Exxon took control of our government, no militia or country for that matter would have enough power and resources to do anything about it. We have the greatest military might in the world. It dwarfs all formidable forces combined. Not in numbers but in capabilities. 

 
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