Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

Free Speech in America


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 egofed

egofed

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:35 PM

http://freebeacon.co...nstitution-day/

 

This is outrageous.



#2 GrooThePerverted

GrooThePerverted

    AKA Martin Tupper

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:45 PM

 

1. 

The administrator then said she would need a photo of his ID, and he would need to read the guidelines and procedures. “We’re not telling you you can’t, you just need to follow the guidelines,” the administrator says.

 

 

Sounds about right, and sounds fair as well.  People seem to want to do what they want to do when they want to do it with no clearance or permission or anything.  Things don't always work that way, and when it doesn't it's not always someone's "Free speech" being trampled upon.

 

2.
 

FIRE’s letter told Stearns that the college’s actions are unconstitutional.

“To be clear: MJC’s requirement that students request permission to distribute printed materials on campus is unconstitutional. Its requirement that such requests be submitted a minimum of five business days in advance is unconstitutional. Finally, its exile of all approved campus expression to a single small area of the campus is unconstitutional,” the letter stated.

 

 

Get the Fuck outta here with this bullshit.  I swear people don't even know what Free Speech even means anymore.  They think it means they can do anything they want, say anything they want, and if anyone says boo, "HEY! STOP INFRINGING MY FREE SPEECH!"

 

To those people I say Fuck you and Fuck your mistaken impression of what Free Speech means.

 

Unless these people are being LOCKED UP by the state for what they are doing, they are not having their free speech taken away.  They don't wanna follow the rules, and think that means they are being infringed upon. 

 

Bunch of self important entitled assholes.



#3 egofed

egofed

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:59 PM

1. 

 

Sounds about right, and sounds fair as well.  People seem to want to do what they want to do when they want to do it with no clearance or permission or anything.  Things don't always work that way, and when it doesn't it's not always someone's "Free speech" being trampled upon.

 

2.
 

 

Get the Fuck outta here with this bullshit.  I swear people don't even know what Free Speech even means anymore.  They think it means they can do anything they want, say anything they want, and if anyone says boo, "HEY! STOP INFRINGING MY FREE SPEECH!"

 

To those people I say Fuck you and Fuck your mistaken impression of what Free Speech means.

 

Unless these people are being LOCKED UP by the state for what they are doing, they are not having their free speech taken away.  They don't wanna follow the rules, and think that means they are being infringed upon. 

 

Bunch of self important entitled assholes.

Hahahahahahahhaahahaa...yeah, thinking that you can hand out free copies of the Constitution on Constitution Day at a "community" college that you are paying to go to makes you a self important entitled asshole. :roll:  Its also funny as crap that Modesto's mission statement includes the desire to "promote civic engagement." Just be sure  to fill out the proper forms in triplicate.Ha! This is terrible PR also. Fox News and the rest are salivating for more liberal, anti Constitution stories. Having a "free speech area" in an institution of higher learning seems crazy too.

 

It is weird how many libs are so pro big, controlling gov't, yet show disdain for the document that established our country....Oh wait, the Constitution puts limits and supposed safe guards against big gov't. Nevermind.... ;)



#4 GrooThePerverted

GrooThePerverted

    AKA Martin Tupper

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:15 PM

Hahahahahahahhaahahaa...yeah, thinking that you can hand out free copies of the Constitution on Constitution Day at a "community" college that you are paying to go to makes you a self important entitled asshole. :roll:  Its also funny as crap that Modesto's mission statement includes the desire to "promote civic engagement." Just be sure  to fill out the proper forms in triplicate.Ha! This is terrible PR also. Fox News and the rest are salivating for more liberal, anti Constitution stories. Having a "free speech area" in an institution of higher learning seems crazy too.

 

It is weird how many libs are so pro big, controlling gov't, yet show disdain for the document that established our country....Oh wait, the Constitution puts limits and supposed safe guards against big gov't. Nevermind.... ;)

And yet the Republicans are the ones who are supposedly "small government/no government" yet have no problem trying make government laws outlawing what they don't like.

 

Marriage equality? Let's make a brand new constitutional amendment against it.  Forget all that all men are created equal nonsense.   How about let's insert religious text into the Pledge of Allegience, even though it wasn't there in the first place.  What's that?  Constitution says no endorsment/establishment of religion?  Nah, that's not how WE interpret it.

 

Repubs are just as full of shit as the Dems, and in many cases MUCH MUCH MUCH more so. 

 

I agree the optics do not look good if you just look at it on a superficial level without context (which is what Fox News specializes in), but sadly that's how too many people approach things today.  "Wait, I can't do what I want anyway I want? FREE SPEECH! FREE SPEECH! ILLUMINATI! THE PIGS ARE WALKING!"

 

smh



#5 mrsilkunderwear

mrsilkunderwear

    Just Do It.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:53 PM

And yet the Republicans are the ones who are supposedly "small government/no government" yet have no problem trying make government laws outlawing what they don't like.

 

Marriage equality? Let's make a brand new constitutional amendment against it.  Forget all that all men are created equal nonsense.   How about let's insert religious text into the Pledge of Allegience, even though it wasn't there in the first place.  What's that?  Constitution says no endorsment/establishment of religion?  Nah, that's not how WE interpret it.

 

Repubs are just as full of shit as the Dems, and in many cases MUCH MUCH MUCH more so. 

 

I agree the optics do not look good if you just look at it on a superficial level without context (which is what Fox News specializes in), but sadly that's how too many people approach things today.  "Wait, I can't do what I want anyway I want? FREE SPEECH! FREE SPEECH! ILLUMINATI! THE PIGS ARE WALKING!"

 

smh

Calm down there. Just so you know Egofed is not a die hard republican, the kind you see in congress today. He believes in constitution and personal freedom. If you read any of his previous posts then you would know that.

 

Also you are right that many people today completely misunderstand the 1st amendment but that man was exercising it correctly. First amendment can only be stopped when it infringes upon another man's freedom.  



#6 egofed

egofed

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 22 September 2013 - 02:23 PM

Calm down there. Just so you know Egofed is not a die hard republican, the kind you see in congress today. He believes in constitution and personal freedom. If you read any of his previous posts then you would know that.

 

Also you are right that many people today completely misunderstand the 1st amendment but that man was exercising it correctly. First amendment can only be stopped when it infringes upon another man's freedom.  

Thanks for the support, silk. Indeed there are way too many Repubs who want to force their agenda down our throats with no regard for how our country is SUPPOSED to work. Both parties are generally well meaning, but lack dedication to their sworn oath of upholding the Constitution. Interpreting the document has become insane. Of course some issues have evolved that needed clarification, (ending slavery for example) but the idea of limited gov't has totally gone out the window with such interpretations of things like the Commerce clause. I think most Americans who fought in the Revolutionary War would punch us in the face if they knew that we were allowing the gov't to tell us that we HAD to buy a product from a private business.



#7 RedvsBlue

RedvsBlue

    Rocket Science Level

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 23 September 2013 - 12:50 PM

Time, place, and manner restrictions on free speech have been roundly upheld and supported by the Supreme Court (using that exact same verbiage, as well). The reason you have to restrict someone from passing out a constitution in the designated area is because if exceptions are made for some then it is no longer a content neutral restriction on free speech and they'll basically have to let anyone promote anything, anywhere.

Whoever these "constitutional experts" are they clearly haven't gone to law school because this is about as straight forward application of case law in this area as you can get.

tldr: Non-issue

#8 egofed

egofed

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 23 September 2013 - 01:21 PM

Time, place, and manner restrictions on free speech have been roundly upheld and supported by the Supreme Court (using that exact same verbiage, as well). The reason you have to restrict someone from passing out a constitution in the designated area is because if exceptions are made for some then it is no longer a content neutral restriction on free speech and they'll basically have to let anyone promote anything, anywhere.

Whoever these "constitutional experts" are they clearly haven't gone to law school because this is about as straight forward application of case law in this area as you can get.

tldr: Non-issue

I hear you and understand, but common sense should prevail in these instances. A copy of the Constitution, if indeed that is all that is given away here, is much different than a Bible, Koran, anti abortion propaganda, join Heaven's gate pamphlet.....It should be an unbiased act with the only agenda being making people more aware of our founding document. Does the college have classes that reference and teach about the Constitution in their curriculum?



#9 RedvsBlue

RedvsBlue

    Rocket Science Level

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 23 September 2013 - 04:27 PM

I hear you and understand, but common sense should prevail in these instances. A copy of the Constitution, if indeed that is all that is given away here, is much different than a Bible, Koran, anti abortion propaganda, join Heaven's gate pamphlet.....It should be an unbiased act with the only agenda being making people more aware of our founding document. Does the college have classes that reference and teach about the Constitution in their curriculum?

The Supreme Court's test for free speech limitations is as simple as this. If the restriction is content neutral then it will only be subjected to a rational basis test. Meaning the question is whether the restriction is rationally related to a legitimate government purpose (which is very easy for the government to satisfy and rarely means they will be ruled against). Typically, as in this case as well, a restriction based on time, place, and manner (their exact phraseology, as well) which does not take into account the content of the message, will be subjected to the rational basis test.

Now, on the other hand, if there is any kind of content restriction, then they will be subjected to strict scrutiny which asks whether the restriction is narrowly tailored to achieve an compelling government interest. The government actor will almost always lose in a strict scrutiny test.

The problem here is that if you allow passing out of the constitution, even our own, its political speech. As soon as this college allows that they have to allow everything because they're no longer restricting speech on a content neutral basis.

The common sense you mention in your post should be that we have to apply the laws equally, even to ourselves. Even though the constitution is the supreme law of the land, passing it out is still political speech and passing it out with a message attached (which is what I'm betting is being left out here) is definitely political speech. We have to apply our laws equally or we're no better than the kings of old who would rule on their whims and emotions.

Look, I get it, its our own constitution but don't let conservative blogs manipulate you into thinking this is anything but a straight forward application of the already standing free speech restrictions. Additionally, I highly doubt this group's message carried only the substance of "here's the constitution". What's more likely is they set this whole thing up knowing they were going to be shut down so they could run to the internet claiming this college restricted their speech. It's just too straightforward of an application for this to ever become an issue.

#10 egofed

egofed

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:21 AM

Thanks for the well thought out and civil reply. I would like to know if the college has shut anybody else down, or turned down any requests that were submitted. I'll try to keep an eye on this story to see if any new info becomes available.



#11 GrooThePerverted

GrooThePerverted

    AKA Martin Tupper

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:26 AM

It's much like those that insist that we have "Prayer in School".  And then you say "okay, cool.  So we can have Islamic Prayer too?" and then that exposes the problem there.  Because those people aren't asking for "Prayer in School", they're asking for "THEIR religious prayer in school".  They just want Christian prayer in school, not any other religious prayer.

 

I'm a Christian, but these people drive me crazy because they have turned the faith I have held all my life into a laughing stock and something to be despised due to their bigotry and trying to use the Bible to justify hatred.