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Goverrnment Shutdown 2013: The Obamapocalypse is here! :(


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#1 dohdough

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:57 PM

Listening to CSpan and LOLOLOL at some of the callers. Discuss...or not.


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"Speaking of which, there's another elitist prick that argues constantly on the Politics forums by the name of dohdough. He's a complete douche, but at least he keeps his posts in that cesspool of useless opinions. He gets my runner-up nomination."


Thanks for the nomination for the Most Memorable CAG Villan 2012, Blade!

#2 Blade

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 05:17 PM

idiocracy-bang-o.gif



#3 willardhaven

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 05:26 PM

Both parties win so there's no incentive to end it quickly. Dems look like the good guys to people who have a brain and Republicans look like freedom fighters to their base.

 

Fun fact: Federal employees had to waste the workday Monday preparing for the shutdown. Half of Tuesday was spent answering phones saying "we are shut down."


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#4 dohdough

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 08:24 PM

Is anyone else watching/listening to the Senate session right now? I think Tom Colburn(R-Oklahoma) just said UHC is a far better idea than Obamascare and that he prefers that system? :rofl:
dohdough.png


"Speaking of which, there's another elitist prick that argues constantly on the Politics forums by the name of dohdough. He's a complete douche, but at least he keeps his posts in that cesspool of useless opinions. He gets my runner-up nomination."


Thanks for the nomination for the Most Memorable CAG Villan 2012, Blade!

#5 mrsilkunderwear

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:27 PM

parks-and-recreation-ron-swanson-governm



#6 irideabike

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:51 PM

This shut down is just killing me.


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#7 Dr Mario Kart

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:16 AM

I dont think I've ever seen conservatives so happy, and yet there shouldnt be much for them to be happy about.

 

(1) People are suffering

(2) They are committing electoral suicide

(3) They havent stopped ACA

 

In their bizarro world, they must figure at least one of these isnt true.  Alternatively, they just might be monsters.



#8 Cage017

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:26 PM

Is it just me or have stocks improved since this shutdown occured?


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#9 dohdough

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:34 PM

Is it just me or have stocks improved since this shutdown occured?

It's just you.


dohdough.png


"Speaking of which, there's another elitist prick that argues constantly on the Politics forums by the name of dohdough. He's a complete douche, but at least he keeps his posts in that cesspool of useless opinions. He gets my runner-up nomination."


Thanks for the nomination for the Most Memorable CAG Villan 2012, Blade!

#10 ID2006

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:46 PM

Some of the Republicans are acting more delusional than ever. Rand Paul, for example, thinks they're set to win this, as if they made it over the hump in terms of public reaction. :-k  Nevermind that the public is polling more against the Republican party at this particular point than they have been in a long time.

 

On the other hand, the Democrats are doing themselves no favor by letting Harry Reid speak for them. Oh, well. I empathize with all the people beginning to suffer because of this lunacy.



#11 BigPopov

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 06:17 PM

The first week or two is easy. Once the contractors start getting fucked is when the vocal dissent will kick in.



#12 bvharris

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 06:31 PM

Is anyone else watching/listening to the Senate session right now? I think Tom Colburn(R-Oklahoma) just said UHC is a far better idea than Obamascare and that he prefers that system? :rofl:

 

If this is how far they're going to twist themselves into knots to hate on Obama's policies, I say we let them run with it.  If it gets us true UHC, they can call it the Tea Party Patriot Kenyan Muslim Obamacare Sucks Care Act for all I care.


33126.png
 


#13 Dead of Knight

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:59 PM

This doesn't affect me directly at all but it really pisses me off.  It would be nice if Congress had people with empathy for the tons of people who are unpaid and/or out of work right now.  It's too bad it's filled with sociopaths and people with the mental capacity of a 5 year old.


RIP Hiroshi Yamauchi

This is the greatest thing ever. Certainly in the OTT at least.


#14 berzirk

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 09:19 PM

I've been traveling throughout Europe for work during all this, and it's making international news, but just because of the impact on the global economy. A situation like this is crazy for American politics, but not that unusual compared to international standards.

 

Unrelated, but while here I was watching RT news and George Galloway, an old favorite of mine was being interviewed on the topic of American exceptionalism and Obama's claims that basically God established our country to rule the world and everything in it. From the British perspective, this must be pure comedy, because just a couple hundred years ago, this was the discussion amongst the British and Spanish.

 

And even less related...Jesus...these Europeans love soccer. If this shit ever shutdown, continent-wide riots.



#15 Blaster man

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 09:53 PM

So in a couple of weeks the debt ceiling has to be raised.  If the debt ceiling isn't raised then the government defaults on the debt.  Default on the debt is unconstitutional.  Does it then follow that the debt ceiling law is unconstitutional and that Obama will be able to raise it himself without Congressional authority?  A couple of years ago a similar situation happened (but they raised the debt ceiling in time), remember the talk of the 2 trillion dollar platinum coin?

 

edit:

By the way, it's been mentioned that there are enough votes in the house between democrats and moderate republicans to pass a budget but such a budget won't be allowed a vote because the republican's are following their "majority of the majority rule".  It's not a real rule but something made up a few decades ago to prevent the minority party from being able to submit bills for a vote.  I suggest anyone that doesn't know what the "majority of the majority" is read about it.  It's also called the "Hastert Rule".



#16 Msut77

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 10:35 PM

I'm pro coin.


wahhhhh noone helped me so they must not help anyone. - knoell

#17 Blaster man

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 10:52 PM

I'm pro coin.

It would certainly be jarring to the system.  The House would try to remove the President's ability to do it in the future and that bill would either fail in the Senate or be vetoed by the President and not have the votes for an override. 

 

It would certainly solve the debt problem since they could use it to immediately pay off 2 trillion dollars in debt.  Then instead of having almost 17 trillion in debt we'd have only 15 trilling.  Monetizing the debt in that way wouldn't even cause immediate inflation since that money was already printed to buy treasuries (the assumption being that the 2 trillion would be used to pay off treasuries held by the Fed).



#18 detectiveconan16

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 12:03 AM

Hilarious that the politicians in Congress are complaining about the lack of compromise regarding anything, especially since the only thing they want is Obamacare defunded.  Where was this crap the past few years? Am I supposed to believe that now is the best time of any other for compromise in the most unproductive body of government in decades?


Braving the pillow gauntlet.

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#19 mrsilkunderwear

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:00 AM

Funny how everyone blames the house but do not mention the senate at all. 



#20 Blaster man

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:51 AM

Funny how everyone blames the house but do not mention the senate at all. 

That's because the house put together a "compromise" with a continuing resolution for 90 days and in exchange they wanted a year delay for the ACA.  They knew that the Democrats wouldn't go for that.  It doesn't matter who's President, no one in their right mind would trade what they see as their landmark legislation for a 90 day extension on the budget.  It's just sad when people watch the "news" on Fox or MSNBC and don't actually read into what's being discussed.  People seriously take at face value what fox is saying - that the house of reps is trying. 



#21 BigPopov

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:56 AM

Funny how everyone blames the house but do not mention the senate at all. 

 

That's because the only way the House will agree to comp is if ACA is not funded or removed.

 

In case you didn't know, ACA was passed by the House, Senate, Supreme Court. It's a law now. Trying to undermine it/eliminate it does not belong in a spending bill.



#22 Spokker

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 07:57 AM

James Madison already worked all this shit out.

 

 

The House of Representatives cannot only refuse, but they alone can propose, the supplies requisite for the support of government. They, in a word, hold the purse that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure.

 

Thomas Sowell also has some thoughts on the matter: http://www.gopusa.co...t/?subscriber=1

 

 

 

ObamaCare is indeed "the law of the land," as its supporters keep saying, and the Supreme Court has upheld its Constitutionality.

But the whole point of having a division of powers within the federal government is that each branch can decide independently what it wants to do or not do, regardless of what the other branches do, when exercising the powers specifically granted to that branch by the Constitution.

 

Congress is beholden to the Supreme Court in what it cannot do, not what it can do. It's an important distinction. While the Supreme Court may rule that Obamacare is constitutional, that has no bearing on the fact that a majority of the House simply does not like it. 

 

The true test of who is right or wrong comes November 2014, when the nation's largest and most complete survey is taken. Can you believe there are losers who don't want to participate in it?

 

I agree that there will never, ever be a Republican in the White House ever again, but the Democrat who lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. will always have that pesky majority in the House to deal with. The so-called Tea Party Republicans are not going anywhere for quite some time. 



#23 Msut77

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 11:40 AM

It would certainly be jarring to the system.  The House would try to remove the President's ability to do it in the future and that bill would either fail in the Senate or be vetoed by the President and not have the votes for an override. 

 

It would certainly solve the debt problem since they could use it to immediately pay off 2 trillion dollars in debt.  Then instead of having almost 17 trillion in debt we'd have only 15 trilling.  Monetizing the debt in that way wouldn't even cause immediate inflation since that money was already printed to buy treasuries (the assumption being that the 2 trillion would be used to pay off treasuries held by the Fed).

you don't need a new bill.


wahhhhh noone helped me so they must not help anyone. - knoell

#24 Blaster man

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 01:26 PM

Funny how everyone blames the house but do not mention the senate at all. 

 

Again, Fox News does not give you good information.  The Senate has a spending bill and the House won't even allow it to come up for a vote.

http://thehill.com/b...n-spending-bill

 

 

you don't need a new bill.

They would need a new bill to deny the ability to use platinum to make any denomination of coin.



#25 mrsilkunderwear

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:54 PM

That's because the house put together a "compromise" with a continuing resolution for 90 days and in exchange they wanted a year delay for the ACA.  They knew that the Democrats wouldn't go for that.  It doesn't matter who's President, no one in their right mind would trade what they see as their landmark legislation for a 90 day extension on the budget.  It's just sad when people watch the "news" on Fox or MSNBC and don't actually read into what's being discussed.  People seriously take at face value what fox is saying - that the house of reps is trying. 

I am not some Fox watching schmuck. I actually get my news from a variety of news agencies including liberal sites. They are asking Obamacare to be delayed not defunded nor overturned. That to me is fair, especially when some select parties are exempt including the congress itself. 

 

That's because the only way the House will agree to comp is if ACA is not funded or removed.

 

In case you didn't know, ACA was passed by the House, Senate, Supreme Court. It's a law now. Trying to undermine it/eliminate it does not belong in a spending bill.

 

In case you did not know, democrats dominated the branches back when it was passed. You know what is a law? Patriot Act...



#26 Spokker

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 10:06 PM

I think both strategies employed by Republicans and Democrats are valid. None of this "domestic terrorism" bullshit. Everything is constitutional and moral in my book. I mean, should it be legal for the federal government to shut down? Of course. The ability to hijack the budget process is there for a reason.

The real test is how long people can go without the federal government. A few days won't matter despite the theatrics on the evening news. Six months and that's another story.

And there lies the problem. The federal government has gotten too big and does way too much so that way too many people depend on it. I don't even think we should have a full-time legislative branch of government.

In any case, the most complete survey of what the American people think of the shutdown will happen in one year. Nothing unusual will really happen though. We'll have the few interesting races that pop up every election season but most incumbents will still win. I don't believe that it is possible to eradicate the two-party system.

#27 Blaster man

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 10:33 PM

I am not some Fox watching schmuck. I actually get my news from a variety of news agencies including liberal sites. They are asking Obamacare to be delayed not defunded nor overturned. That to me is fair, especially when some select parties are exempt including the congress itself. 

It's fair that they ask for what he believes is his key achievement to be delayed for an entire year in exchange for a 3 month continuing resolution?  Explain how this is fair.  Imagine this: The next president is a republican.  The House of reps is majority democrats.  30 hardcore liberal dems in the house demand that taxes be raised to 90% for the top 1% or they won't pass a budget and they'll keep the government shut down for an unlimited amount of time until their demands are met.  In exchange for the 90% tax rate, they'll give you a 90 day budget.  That might sound "extreme" to you but I guarantee that the demands they're making in regard to Obamacare is just as extreme to the dems in power right now. 

 

Even if the democrats were to accept this "fair" offer, what do you think happens in another 90 days? 

 

This is a horrible precedent for our government and is leading us down a really bad path.  The logical extension of this is that no law is ever settled if a single person in congress disagrees with it and you're never going to find everyone agreeing on every law.  This will lead to perpetual gridlock and probably a rewrite of the constitution if this continues.

 

I think both strategies employed by Republicans and Democrats are valid. None of this "domestic terrorism" bullshit. Everything is constitutional and moral in my book. I mean, should it be legal for the federal government to shut down? Of course. The ability to hijack the budget process is there for a reason.

The real test is how long people can go without the federal government. A few days won't matter despite the theatrics on the evening news. Six months and that's another story.

And there lies the problem. The federal government has gotten too big and does way too much so that way too many people depend on it. I don't even think we should have a full-time legislative branch of government.

In any case, the most complete survey of what the American people think of the shutdown will happen in one year. Nothing unusual will really happen though. We'll have the few interesting races that pop up every election season but most incumbents will still win. I don't believe that it is possible to eradicate the two-party system.

Twice now you've written something like this.  I haven't seen a single person suggest that it's illegal for them to do this.  People think it's bad politics and bad for the country.



#28 Msut77

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:27 AM

Nullification 2 the tea stains needs to be nipped in the bud real fast. The legality of a shut down is questionable. The debt ceiling is less ambiguous.  It is hostage taking despite what spoiler and so well "think".


wahhhhh noone helped me so they must not help anyone. - knoell

#29 dohdough

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 01:10 AM

I am not some Fox watching schmuck. I actually get my news from a variety of news agencies including liberal sites. They are asking Obamacare to be delayed not defunded nor overturned. That to me is fair, especially when some select parties are exempt including the congress itself.

First, L O fucking L

Why is Congress be exempt from Obamascare anyways? TOTALLY NOT FAIR AT ALL. It's not like they have money nor employer subsidized health insurance or...oh wai
 

In case you did not know, democrats dominated the branches back when it was passed. You know what is a law? Patriot Act...

Hmmm...if only there was a difference between what happened when people spoke out against the PATRIOT Act and for the PPACA...

Health Care...surveillance state...same shit.
dohdough.png


"Speaking of which, there's another elitist prick that argues constantly on the Politics forums by the name of dohdough. He's a complete douche, but at least he keeps his posts in that cesspool of useless opinions. He gets my runner-up nomination."


Thanks for the nomination for the Most Memorable CAG Villan 2012, Blade!

#30 egofed

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:17 AM

Didn't Obama delay a major part of ACA for a year? How crazy to think that maybe other parts aren't ready for prime time......and any exemptions or waivers given to such a major new and untested law are BS.