CAGcast #339: Shipwreck is Unimpressed

CheapyD

CheapyD

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Shipwreck is unimpressed with the Steam Controller, Grand Theft Auto V Online, Scriblenauts Unmasked, and so much more.  Pinball, however, never gets old.

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I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCP3moqEXL0
 
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shipwreckisunimpressed.com

Pokémon.shipwreckisunimpressed.com

ign.shipwreckisunimpressed.com

cantaloupe.shipwreckisunimpressed.com

Edit: Got a question after listening, would you guys agree that people who buy consoles on launch day just to sale for higher prices on Ebay are scum bags?

 
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While GAF may be "small" in terms of the general video game industry, many people in the games industry frequent it often enough that they do have some influence within the media. So many game critics and journalists go in and grab stories from it as well.

There are also some executives like Albert Penello and Adam Boyes who are GAF addicts and do mention GAF to the media in interviews. I dunno why they would bother mentioning GAF if it wasn't relevant to them in some way.

Also, the GAF question was probably related to the HL3 trademark thread. It ended up being on the front page of Reddit yesterday and crashed GAF as a result.

Anyway, every forum has their own fair share of idiots or ignorant members. Don't let a few members or dumb opinions make you loathe an entire community.
 
Another great CAGcast. I'm really looking forward to the next gen console releases coming up in a few weeks. I'm as excited to see what your thoughts and unexpected opinions may be with their launches, as I am with the actual systems themselves. I'm a bit disappointing to hear that you don't think I will be making phat cash by selling my PS4 system at launch. The PS3 launch was pretty good to me in that aspect.

I also wanted to thank Ship for the Cincy Pinball mention. It's good to hear that I didn't have a "stabby" look in my eyes when I invited you, though I'm sure I had some slurring speech by the end of the party. Hopefully you and the Mrs enjoyed yourselves and are able to make it out to play another locals collection in the future. Underground pinball houses are all around.

 
I think you guys are underestimated the steam controller. I don't think it's going to replace my 360 controller for console ports but I can see myself using it for shooters. I love using a controller but it's not precise enough for shooters or strategy games, so I end up using keyboard/mouse which I find uncomfortable after a long play session

 
Guys I got it! GTA should use the car's blinker as an on screen cue to turn, along with the current GPS Radar. The rear blinker flashes and you hear the click-click. What do you think?
I am with Cheapy as far as not wanting a giant green arrow hovering above the street.

Also I have to believe Shipreck was trolling about Kyrie Irving being a white woman.

Great show!
 
Brain Droppings:

Taco Bell isn't bad at all. But, White Caste "murder burgers" are the ones that giving me stomach pains even though It's what I was craving.

Subway isn't bad either even though most owners are douchey. And I am not a racist but why why can't they know the language of the country they do business in.

Ironman 3 was done with heavy involvement of the chinese. I thought it was good. However, Thor 2 trailers looks like it's going to be one of the better Marvel movies since the aftermath of the Avengers movie.
 
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I don't have GTA V, and I did a quick search of it, so I will assume this is not a feature. On ACTUAL GPS systems they often have turn-by-turn voice navigation so that you aren't constantly looking over at the GPS map when you should be watching the road. It seems like something that could have been included in GTA V as an option on the GPS that wouldn't have broken the immersion like arrows on the side of the screen or a line down the center of the road.

Iron Man 3 was fine, certainly better than Iron Man 2. That Tony Stark was powered down for most of the movie didn't bother me, what draws people to Iron Man movies isn't generally Iron Man, it is Robert Downy Jr. The primary villain was a nerd who felt humiliated and wronged, if you've seen any coed horror movie from the 1980's you know what inevitably happens next, CREATIVE REVENGE!

Considering the steam controller is probably going to require first-hand demoing in order to convince people to buy it since it changes up the conventional controller so much, I'm not sure how they are going to accomplish it. No big box or electronics stores offer PC gaming demo stations currently; never mind Big Picture steam demo stations. This is especially true if due to all the tech it is going to cost $80-100, I sure as hell would not be dropping that much cash on a dual TRACKPAD (ewwww) controller without trying it first.

 
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What's with the sound quality this week? It SUCKS. I know you guys are trying to be retro, but you shouldn't use an Atari 2600 to record the cast.

 
guardian_owl said:
I don't have GTA V, and I did a quick search of it, so I will assume this is not a feature. On ACTUAL GPS systems they often have turn-by-turn voice navigation so that you aren't constantly looking over at the GPS map when you should be watching the road. It seems like something that could have been included in GTA V as an option on the GPS that wouldn't have broken the immersion like arrows on the side of the screen or a line down the center of the road.
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Great show as always, but on the note of the GPS, GTA 4 had the voiced turn by turn GPS in certain "higher end" cars, so you would set a waypoint and it would tell you when to turn and blah blah. I was surprised that none of the cars in 5 had the feature.

As for me, the current GPS setup is fine. I do something similar to Cheapy, where I'll glance at the line and say "2 streets then left" and so on. Sometimes I don't even use the GPS, and just go until the letter is lined up with my arrow and them turn that direction.

I know Saints Row 3 introduced that style that racing games have had for years, but i didn't experience it till Sleeping Dogs, I'm surprised it took this long for open world games to snag it.
 
I have to agree with Cheapy on the GTA V debate. I have no problems with quickly glancing to the left of the screen to know when to turn. Having a giant arrow or markers in the actual world to tell you where to go would break all and every immersion. I know Saints Row did it with succes, but they weren't going for a giant living and breathing world. I think it doesn't fit within the world that Rockstar tried to make.

I also don't understand why Shipwreck who pays 300 dollars for a Nvidia shield won't be bothered to buy the biggest gaming release of this generation for 50 dollars. Why are you so adamant in your disdain of GTA? Both Wombat and Cheapy didn't enjoy GTA IV and both of them are now having fun playing GTA V. Can't you put your prejudice for all GTA games aside and just try it out?

 
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When I saw a pic of the STeam controller I thought it was an April Fool's joke or somebody's photoshop mockup.   The published hands-on experiences with it didn't sound bad but the sources behind these reports all had special appts to see the thing at Valve so not bad to me means not so good.  Anyway I don't even want to get my hopes up that a thumb trackpad can provide a mouse-like experience.   So (news about the Steam controller) just go away until you are on store shelves.  Please.  Thank you.

 
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TheDrypa said:
I also don't understand why Shipwreck who pays 300 dollars for a Nvidia shield won't be bothered to buy the biggest gaming release of this generation for 50 dollars. Why are you so adamant in your disdain of GTA? Both Wombat and Cheapy didn't enjoy GTA IV and both of them are now having fun playing GTA V. Can't you put your prejudice for all GTA games aside and just try it out?
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It's not a money issue. I didn't enjoy Grand Theft Auto IV. I didn't enjoy L.A. Noire. I didn't enjoy Red Dead Redemption. I didn't enjoy Max Payne 3. How many times do I have to play a game that I don't enjoy?
 
The RetroN 5 having more preorders than than the Vita did by CAGs is pretty astounding. I'm really excited for the 5, but still holy shit that says a lot about how popular the 5 is as well as how unpopular the Vita was.

 
Shipwreck, my wife's due date for our first child (also a girl) is November 14th. We are like brothers or something. Our kids could have the exact same birthday! Do you plan on soothing her to sleep with the nice hum of a supercar motor in Forza, or perhaps the calm and relaxing sound of gunfire in Killzone: Shadow Fall?

Anyway, congrats! 

 
LiK said:
While GAF may be "small" in terms of the general video game industry, many people in the games industry frequent it often enough that they do have some influence within the media. So many game critics and journalists go in and grab stories from it as well.

There are also some executives like Albert Penello and Adam Boyes who are GAF addicts and do mention GAF to the media in interviews. I dunno why they would bother mentioning GAF if it wasn't relevant to them in some way.

Also, the GAF question was probably related to the HL3 trademark thread. It ended up being on the front page of Reddit yesterday and crashed GAF as a result.

Anyway, every forum has their own fair share of idiots or ignorant members. Don't let a few members or dumb opinions make you loathe an entire community.
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It's probably for the best that the CAGcast crew stay away from GAF. They don't do very well when they have their opinions and assumptions challenged.

 
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I hate to say this but in the comics tony stark does have multiple suits at his disposal so having multiple does make sense
 
I don't have an issue with using the minimap in GTA. It doesn't lessen my driving skills any. In SR3 and in Sleeping Dogs I still primarily used the minimap for navigation. The big-ass arrows don't really aid me in any way that a minimap can't. But they should still have an option for them. In fact, I wish all of these games had an OPTION for them, but don't force it upon you.

I think Cheapy is crazy for owning GTAV but not really playing it yet. Believe me, I am a PC gamer - GTAV is actually the first game I've played on my PS3 for well over a year; probably 2 years really. PC (PCPCPCPC) is definitely my system of choice. However, there's no way in hell I would've waited months and months to play GTAV. In the past I've waited to play GTAs, but that was due to not having money of my own. Now that I do, not going to wait. And the fact that Cheapy literally has the game sitting right there already but isn't going to play it is ridiculous to me. And like Cheapy, I'll most likely buy the game again for the PC. (Probably not until it goes on sale, though.)

And just for a frame of reference - both GTA San Andreas and IV came out for PC 8 months after their console release. I too did hear a rumor of a November release, but I highly doubt it. It would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath.

dlostluv said:
I hate to say this but in the comics tony stark does have multiple suits at his disposal so having multiple does make sense
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Yeah, this is what I've heard. I watched Iron Man 3 with my friends and when I said it was kind of dumb that he had a Hulk-like suit, one of my friends told me that specific suit was actually in the comics. Personally I don't follow any of these superheroes outside of the movies, and I liked Iron Man 3 just fine. I also didn't have any negative feelings towards 2. Hell, I didn't even really find the much-reviled Spiderman 3 that bad when I saw it originally. I guess I'm just not very critical.

 
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Shipwreck, I saw that Amazon has a 2k14 trade-in deal, (for 360 anyway) where you can get the Xbox One version for 10$. I was also considering waiting for the new consoles, but my impatience got the better of me..

 
Please learn to say spoiler alert or something.  I only listened to part of the first of the show and it completely gave away huge plot points for Iron Man 3.  Cheapy you are the worst, you always want to go into games knowing as little as possible and did not like it when the last Star Trek description gave away a big plot point, but you give no warning at all.  Say a few words to let me know to fast forward.  Cripes!

 
I'm pretty sure this was the "Panzer Girls" thing CheapyD mentioned during the World of Tanks discussion..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girls_und_Panzer

I thought Iron Man 3 was better than Iron Man 2, but then again, I didn't like Iron Man 2. The trailers to Iron Man 3 sure made it look like it was gonna be the darkest film of the trilogy, but man, they sure took that Mandarin stuff in a different direction than I was expecting. Yeah, I didn't care for Iron Man 3 all that much, either. 

 
When you guys were talking about Steam and the controller, you guys said that more and more games are not on Steam and that some people are even "advertising" that, and mentioned the Not on Steam sale. But from what I've gathered, the Not on Steam sale isn't saying "We're not on Steam, buy our games, haha suck it Steam" like you seemed to be hinting at and is instead saying "We're not on Steam but please be aware of our existence and we'd certainly like to be on Steam." Maybe I misunderstood what you guys were getting at, but I feel like you've misinterpreted the Not on Steam sale.

And maybe I should learn to finish the show before commenting so I don't end up commenting like 3 times...

 
Pinball hijack!

Shipwreck - I tweeted you a vid of John Dayhuff's pinball party. He hosts an open party the first Saturday of November from noon til midnight in Battle Creek, Michigan.  This might be a little too close to your wife's due date, but nay pin-head needs to come to the party and make the trek once.  He has some very rare machines and 60+ are running at once.  Big Bang Bar, King Kong (only 9 made), Cactus Canyon, and many more.  Here's the vid if you missed the tweet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaIGMaBBFPM

My friend Pete (about 20 miles from John) has 60+ pins too.  Here's his vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AAEoqu28Oc

 
I'll be keeping my ear out for your thoughts on the final version of the RetroN.  Also, I'd been holding my tongue about it but was totally in the same camp as whoever spoke up on all the PC circlejerking.  "PC PC PC" cracks me up now, though.  Carry on, Cheapy.  And play those damned Sonic Generations mods, what are you waiting for

 
Iron Man 3 is a much better movie than Iron Man 2.  As some one else pointed out Iron Man has a ton of suits for different needs.  The end of the movie is inspired by a comic that had Iron Man calling in all his suits to help defeat a villain.  Half the guys in AIM are just like the villain in the movie angry nerds who want to rule the world

. 

 
So it's a new girl for Shipwreck's basketball team. Contrats. And Wombat does have a dishwasher, it's Mrs. Wombat. jk. I also agree that Iron Man 3 sucked, and Star Trek Into Darkness sucked because it ripped off Wrath of Khan but wasn't better than it. 

 
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The reason Tony Stark created all of those suits was because he started creating them compulsively after having panic attacks because of what happened in The Avengers.  He's a man whose entire world is built on science and then he's fighting aliens along side a Norse god and flew through a rip in space and so tried to deal with that fallout by creating suits to protect him from any situation.  In one and two he never really comes to terms with the danger he puts himself in, Iron Man and Tony Stark might as well be two different people.  In 3 he doesn't feel confident or safe outside of the suit.  At the end when he blows the suits up and says he's Iron Man it's accepting that the suit isn't what makes him a hero.

Also, the bad guy sort of couldn't make that stuff stable.  That was the point. 

Iron Man 2 needing to set up the Avengers killed the pacing of that movie.

 
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Forgive me if I type out something bungled here. I listened to the Steam Controller discussion portion 3 times now and I'm sorting out my thoughts at the top of my head.

From what I can tell, the controller is not meant to replace keyboard and mice but to meet sticks-and-buttons controllers and keyboard/mice halfway: a step above sticks-and-buttons, step below keyboard/mouse.

Has Shipwreck not read about the hands-on impressions from various developers, such as the article from Gamasutra? The controller isn't just about making making more games accessible with a controller, it's also about expanding what you can do with games already attuned to controllers.

Regions of both pads be split in numerous ways for different commands. Not just like "pie slice" areas either, portions of the outer and inner "rings" can be set to do different things. Furthermore, you can do flicking motions to access even more commands. Also consider that the paddles on the underside of the controller can be bound to more commands or possibly act as a toggle (either one or both together) to briefly change what the touchpads and buttons do. You can even click the pads down. Factor in the face buttons and the touchscreen plus potentially how mod-friendly it is (software and hardware-wise) and you'll realize the amount of things you can do with this thing is mind boggling. Although we'll rarely see games that demand so many command bindings, Valve has no doubt made a flexible controller.

As for how the controller performs, read this post by Team Meat's Tommy Refenes. In short, the controller handled Super Meat Boy and Spelunky just fine, both of which are among the most skillfully demanding platformers out there. Hearing Tommy's impressions convinces me that the controller will hold up in terms of accuracy and timing. Although Tommy admitted he would prefer a 360 controller because it is most familiar to him, he would not object to using the Steam controller.

 
CAG #339

1:30 Cincinatti Pinball


9:00 Show Feedback
9:00 - Taco Bell
12:30 - GTA V navigation
14:15 Don't Watch This: Iron Man 3
19:30 New Releases
19:30 - NBA 2k14
23:00 - World of Tanks
25:45 - Carps and Dragons
26:00 - Etrian Odyssey
29:45 GTA Online
37:45 Scribblenauts Unmasked
43:15 Steam Controller
50:45 Nintendo Direct; Donkey Kong delay, SMB cats
53:30 Cagbag
53:30 - Chances for initial run problems
58:00 - Retron5
1:00:00 - NeoGAF
1:06:00 - Mandatory install sizes
1:08:45 - Resell market for consoles
 
shipwreck said:
It's not a money issue. I didn't enjoy Grand Theft Auto IV. I didn't enjoy L.A. Noire. I didn't enjoy Red Dead Redemption. I didn't enjoy Max Payne 3. How many times do I have to play a game that I don't enjoy?
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I feel the same way #gta5buyersremorse

I'm surprised by all the Iron Man 3 hate. That movie was much better than the stupidness of Iron Man 2. Cheapy and Wombat's complaints all seemed to come from them not "knowing or understanding" Iron Man (which seems contradictory based on talk about Iron Man in earlier podcasts).

Tony Stark is supposed to be one of those "I know I'm smarter than you, and thus you're slowing me down" jerk types. Tony Stark knows that it's about having the proper tool (e.g., an Iron Man "Hulkbuster" suit) to fit the job (e.g., fighting the Hulk).

Based on how the second movie referenced the Armor Wars, it shouldn't be surprising that Tony Stark has a bunch of suits or that "the suit(s) don't make the man". I'd think that an Iron Man fan would know that Iron Man 3 focuses on the Extremis storyline and I bet that had they gone with "original Mandarin" you'd probably be complaining moreso about how poorly they did it. It was also cool that they threw A.I.M. in there after putting H.A.M.M.E.R in the previous movie.

Regarding the "villain", having power is ultimately about having control; money is just a byproduct.

He instilled fear as a terrorist, so that people would pay him money to control the chaos (and thus give up a bit of their freedom). He was developing Extremis so that he could use it to control an army of super powered soldiers as well as politicians. He (tried) to use Pepper to control Tony Stark ... and he wanted to control Tony Stark so he could work out all the problems with Extremis.

It's not like the villain was just going to give Extremis to the world after it was perfected. It was a tool to rule. And finally, it was nice to have a villain that wasn't just a psuedo-Iron Man suit but with a different guy in it.

 
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I wouldn't say that Microsoft is expecting a lot of problems with the initial XB1 units, but they are definitely hedging some bets. They didn't put the 'Day One' logo on the console - they put it on the controller.

Yeah, Iron Man 3 was a turd. Very disappointing. Having a million suits that last for 10 seconds each was really desensitizing. "Oh, here's another suit that will get instantly destroyed. Oh, here's another suit that will get instantly destroyed." Don't bother repeating the plot - I get it. It was just poorly done.

 
Thanks for the shout out, Shipwreck. Glad to have met you and your wife at the pinball party. I also thought it was funny that you are the first person that even IDed my Fitbit in the 1.5 years I've been wearing it. You mentioned that you doubted that the pinball house was always like that...and you are kind of correct. Usually there is actually MORE pinball machines in there. It's like heaven :) great show again guys and hope to see you again at one of the parties.
 
The thing about GAF is that it's a great source for video game news and the vetting of said news (detective GAF). Also, there are so many sites which use GAF as their source whether they credit it or not. In fact, when you don't at least look at GAF then you end-up with something like the recent Destructoid article about the 'Leaked Xbox One' which had already been fully debunked on GAF as a beta/dev unit well before Destructoid ran said article. (and Destructoid was far from the only site which was fooled on that video)

 
Cheapy, about those hundreds of engineers in China. I know this is a popular idea, Tim Cook even put this forth as an explanation as to why Apple builds in China.

I've been to the same factories as some of these large companies to make stuff for the company work for. The people who are listed as engineers don't really have a lot of engineering design skills. What they do have is the ability to figure out how to make something, and make it efficiently. This traditionally has not usually been an engineering job in the US, just a skilled tradesman. It's also the kind of person the US is lacking now since so much manufacturing has been lost. Companies could go to Detroit to find this kind of person in droves, but they don't want to pay US wages for them if they don't have to.

The real reason they are building over there really is cost. You can set up a production line cheap and then replicate it as many times as necessary to make as many units as you want, limited only by the supply of parts you can line up. I'm sure you've seen the pictures, there are 40 people lined up shoulder to shoulder on one of these lines. 40 people per line to make maybe 2500 units per shift. In the US it simply would add a lot of cost to set up and run production lines so they build in China. And when demand slackens after Christmas, they don't have to incur costs of layoffs or even idling the plant. The workers are employed on a day-by-day basis and you don't pay to rent a production line if you stop using it.

 
The other reason they do stuff in China is because all the factories are there for every little type of part you might need.  IT's like a big manufacturing outlet mall.  One stop shop.  

Also the way the labor can be bent to their needs.  Much easier there than here.  The workers all live at these big plants from criminy sakes. 

 
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guardian_owl said:
I don't have GTA V, and I did a quick search of it, so I will assume this is not a feature. On ACTUAL GPS systems they often have turn-by-turn voice navigation so that you aren't constantly looking over at the GPS map when you should be watching the road. It seems like something that could have been included in GTA V as an option on the GPS that wouldn't have broken the immersion like arrows on the side of the screen or a line down the center of the road.
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GTA IV had it in non-junk cars. Kind of surprising it'd be featured in a game, then not featured in the next iteration five years later.

 
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shipwreck said:
It's not a money issue. I didn't enjoy Grand Theft Auto IV. I didn't enjoy L.A. Noire. I didn't enjoy Red Dead Redemption. I didn't enjoy Max Payne 3. How many times do I have to play a game that I don't enjoy?
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You also love Apple, prefer cats to dogs and hate Batman. Am I missing anything?

So you basically just have horrible taste in almost everything.
 
DugFreez said:
Another great CAGcast. I'm really looking forward to the next gen console releases coming up in a few weeks. I'm as excited to see what your thoughts and unexpected opinions may be with their launches, as I am with the actual systems themselves. I'm a bit disappointing to hear that you don't think I will be making phat cash by selling my PS4 system at launch. The PS3 launch was pretty good to me in that aspect.
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So who was the "expert" that predicted that? I haven't listened to the episode yet. I hope it wasn't Shipwreck. His predictions are normally pretty bad. Remember when he GUARANTEED that the WiiU would be THE Xmas present of last year and would sell gangbusters?
If it was him I'd take it with a grain of salt.
 
joyce_181502 said:
I feel the same way #gta5buyersremorse

I'm surprised by all the Iron Man 3 hate. That movie was much better than the stupidness of Iron Man 2. Cheapy and Wombat's complaints all seemed to come from them not "knowing or understanding" Iron Man (which seems contradictory based on talk about Iron Man in earlier podcasts).

Tony Stark is supposed to be one of those "I know I'm smarter than you, and thus you're slowing me down" jerk types. Tony Stark knows that it's about having the proper tool (e.g., an Iron Man "Hulkbuster" suit) to fit the job (e.g., fighting the Hulk).

Based on how the second movie referenced the Armor Wars, it shouldn't be surprising that Tony Stark has a bunch of suits or that "the suit(s) don't make the man". I'd think that an Iron Man fan would know that Iron Man 3 focuses on the Extremis storyline and I bet that had they gone with "original Mandarin" you'd probably be complaining moreso about how poorly they did it. It was also cool that they threw A.I.M. in there after putting H.A.M.M.E.R in the previous movie.

Regarding the "villain", having power is ultimately about having control; money is just a byproduct.

He instilled fear as a terrorist, so that people would pay him money to control the chaos (and thus give up a bit of their freedom). He was developing Extremis so that he could use it to control an army of super powered soldiers as well as politicians. He (tried) to use Pepper to control Tony Stark ... and he wanted to control Tony Stark so he could work out all the problems with Extremis.

It's not like the villain was just going to give Extremis to the world after it was perfected. It was a tool to rule. And finally, it was nice to have a villain that wasn't just a psuedo-Iron Man suit but with a different guy in it.
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Completely agree.

 
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