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I remember when Romney was mocked by Obama for taking Putin seriously...


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#1 RPGNinja

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:22 AM

Now that Russia is going to invade Ukraine in all likelihood Obama is going to deny anything like that ever happened.

People are so sick of this inept presidency that Americans are actually cheering for Putin, which is truly pathetic but when compared to Obama they love how much of a stronger leader he is.

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#2 JMusic

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:43 PM

I don't think Romney would have been any better.  Which isn't exactly praise for Obama, more like a damnation of what the U.S. has become over the past 30 years.  It has become "cool" in America to be weak, politically, fiscally, morally, etc.  Having a strong opinion is seen as a problem rather than a positive.

 

We could really use a Teddy Roosevelt, a Winston Churchill, or, dare I say it, a Vladimir Putin.  America the gelded could use an infusion of balls.  And if they piss people off (all three that I mentioned pissed all kinds of people off, even in their own countries), then oh well, the price of being a strong leader.



#3 Blaster man

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:58 PM

Now that Russia is going to invade Ukraine in all likelihood Obama is going to deny anything like that ever happened.

People are so sick of this inept presidency that Americans are actually cheering for Putin, which is truly pathetic but when compared to Obama they love how much of a stronger leader he is.

Video for flashback : http://www.mrctv.org...ign-policy-back

We've got a foreign policy expert here.  Since you're so critical of Obama, please explain what you think Obama SHOULD do. 



#4 RPGNinja

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:21 PM

We've got a foreign policy expert here.  Since you're so critical of Obama, please explain what you think Obama SHOULD do.


For starters, how about not being "Mr. Drawing a line in the sand" and then having to walk back everything he said. How about NOT making promises like we are going to withdraw troops from Afghanistan and Iraq and then not following up on the time tables he set forth.

It is funny, because not one of you here can actually describe to me what the "Obama Doctrine" actually means. His weak leadership has led to Al Qaeda reemerging and Iran and Putin having their way with him because they immediately sense his weakness.

You can't allow yourself to think Romney is any better because you can't admit Obama has been a failure TWICE now in both of his terms. Which is understandable as it is human nature to be in that kind of denial over your ignorance.

I won't even get started on him with Syria and the drone strikes in general because the sheer hypocrisy of it is astounding when you look at his past statements. Putin can't take Obama seriously when everything he is accusing him of we have done ourselves.

And god forbid we ask Hillary Clinton what to do... She will just say "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE!?" and tell everyone to press the RESET button.

As for what he should have done? Literally take a page out of a certain Seinfeld episode and assume that everything you have ever done is wrong and do the EXACT opposite.

You know... I just don't get why Putin doesn't back down from Obama's chest thumping? Doesn't Putin realize he is dealing with the GREATEST community organizer in the world?

#5 Blaster man

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 07:06 PM

Wait, I asked for what you think he should do in regard to Ukraine not what you think he did wrong in the past.

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:04 PM

No US president is going to commit our military to a shooting war against Russia over Crimea.  Not Obama nor Bush nor Romney, Clinton, Kerry, McCain or whoever.  Our NATO allies are not going to commit to backing us in a shooting war against Russia over Crimea.  Just like no US president would have done so over South Ossetia which is why the US policy during that was to lightly cluck our tongues and wait even with supposed Russia expert Condie Rice as Secretary of State.  And I'm not even really blaming Bush for that -- the fact of the matter is that we have virtually no sway in that region because we're not going to go to war with Russia over it.  Likewise, Russia and China place on the UN Security Council means we have no leverage there and Russia is large and independent enough that you're not going to realistically leverage sanctions against them like you might a smaller nation.

 

So, yeah, it's easy to blame Obama since he's the president and all and I guess that's part of the job description.  But the simple reality is that if you're not willing to commit bullets to it, you don't have much say in what Russia is going to do in its own backyard when they have bona fide Russian troops and equipment there (rather than some proxy battle).  And if you think Congress is going to sign on for a war with Russia and that there's any domestic appetite for it, you're insane.  If you think there's international appetite to do so from UK, France, Germany, etc you're doubly insane.  Maybe if Ukraine had joined NATO back in the day we'd have enough obligation from out alliances to force the issue but that ship sailed back in 2010 when Yanukovych said they weren't interested any longer.


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#7 Blaster man

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:13 PM

No US president is going to commit our military to a shooting war against Russia over Crimea.  Not Obama nor Bush nor Romney, Clinton, Kerry, McCain or whoever.  Our NATO allies are not going to commit to backing us in a shooting war against Russia over Crimea.  Just like no US president would have done so over South Ossetia which is why the US policy during that was to lightly cluck our tongues and wait even with supposed Russia expert Condie Rice as Secretary of State.  And I'm not even really blaming Bush for that -- the fact of the matter is that we have virtually no sway in that region because we're not going to go to war with Russia over it.  Likewise, Russia and China place on the UN Security Council means we have no leverage there and Russia is large and independent enough that you're not going to realistically leverage sanctions against them like you might a smaller nation.

 

So, yeah, it's easy to blame Obama since he's the president and all and I guess that's part of the job description.  But the simple reality is that if you're not willing to commit bullets to it, you don't have much say in what Russia is going to do in its own backyard when they have bona fide Russian troops and equipment there (rather than some proxy battle).  And if you think Congress is going to sign on for a war with Russia and that there's any domestic appetite for it, you're insane.  If you think there's international appetite to do so from UK, France, Germany, etc you're doubly insane.

I completely agree.  That's why I couldn't understand the complaints about Obama somehow botching this.  As I see it, he's doing what anyone would do as President right now.  Despite their fall as a "Super Power" in the minds of people in this country, Russia is very capable.  I'm by no means a foreign policy expert but I know that they try to basically keep up with us.  A war with Russia would be devastating even without it going nuclear.  It's just not going to happen.  If they kept rolling westward then yeah we'd end up seeing war.  There's just no way that Russia is going to head towards central or Western Europe though. 

 

The best the Ukraine could hope for is for NATO troops to go into Western Ukraine to make sure that Russia doesn't move further West.  Much like we won't attack them, they aren't going to attack NATO troops that are just standing around "maintaining the peace".



#8 Blaster man

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:19 PM

Here's an interesting map from CNN.  It could be that Russia is trying to break the country in two.

 

 

 

ukraine_map_region_language.jpg



#9 dohdough

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:38 PM

In this thread:

TC constantly bitches about Obama being virtually a fascist dictator and then creates a thread about Obama being a foreign policy pussy while wanting a more authoritarian President.

Can't make this shit up, fellas... :rofl:

Like seriously, what can Obama do? Invade the country? The best he can do is convince the EU to use soft power to dissuade Putin from going too crazy.
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#10 renique46

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:21 AM

At this point, its like that 1 turd that somehow avoids a flush every time you hit the flapper.



#11 dopa345

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:56 AM

Putin knows he has nothing to fear from Obama.  If he won't lift a finger to protect Americans like in Benghazi, then he won't do jack to stop him from re-establishing Russian hegemony over Eastern Europe.  Anyway, Obama has more important things to do like his dumb March Madness bracket for ESPN.



#12 Msut77

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:01 AM

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#13 mykevermin

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:25 PM

Americans are actually cheering for Putin

Alas!

 

Is the right so brazen that they finally admit they would rather see Americans suffer than see a Democrat succeed?


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#14 mrsilkunderwear

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:17 PM

No US president is going to commit our military to a shooting war against Russia over Crimea.  Not Obama nor Bush nor Romney, Clinton, Kerry, McCain or whoever.  Our NATO allies are not going to commit to backing us in a shooting war against Russia over Crimea.  Just like no US president would have done so over South Ossetia which is why the US policy during that was to lightly cluck our tongues and wait even with supposed Russia expert Condie Rice as Secretary of State.  And I'm not even really blaming Bush for that -- the fact of the matter is that we have virtually no sway in that region because we're not going to go to war with Russia over it.  Likewise, Russia and China place on the UN Security Council means we have no leverage there and Russia is large and independent enough that you're not going to realistically leverage sanctions against them like you might a smaller nation.

 

So, yeah, it's easy to blame Obama since he's the president and all and I guess that's part of the job description.  But the simple reality is that if you're not willing to commit bullets to it, you don't have much say in what Russia is going to do in its own backyard when they have bona fide Russian troops and equipment there (rather than some proxy battle).  And if you think Congress is going to sign on for a war with Russia and that there's any domestic appetite for it, you're insane.  If you think there's international appetite to do so from UK, France, Germany, etc you're doubly insane.  Maybe if Ukraine had joined NATO back in the day we'd have enough obligation from out alliances to force the issue but that ship sailed back in 2010 when Yanukovych said they weren't interested any longer.

Well well... I actually agree with what you are saying. Ninja's hate of Obama and liberals is well know but he is absolutely correct in pointing out that Obama was a weak leader. It is not about repealing the invasion by the Russians. It is about all bark but no bite. The man needs to stop drawing lines and threatening world leaders with consequences. 

 

Ultimately, I am glad that Obama nor the congress will not authorize any type of military action and most likely any economic sanctions. The conflict is none of our business and we can only show our disapproval. 



#15 RPGNinja

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:18 PM

Alas!
 
Is the right so brazen that they finally admit they would rather see Americans suffer than see a Democrat succeed?


You might want to check yourself, this includes liberals too lol so your little right wing conspiracy thing doesn't work either.

#16 RPGNinja

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:19 PM

In this thread:

TC constantly bitches about Obama being virtually a fascist dictator and then creates a thread about Obama being a foreign policy pussy while wanting a more authoritarian President.

Can't make this shit up, fellas... :rofl:

Like seriously, what can Obama do? Invade the country? The best he can do is convince the EU to use soft power to dissuade Putin from going too crazy.


Aw you are still butthurt about Obama being constantly wrong? You are RIGHT I can't make this shit up because it keeps coming from Obama's OWN MOUTH.

#17 mykevermin

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:25 PM

You might want to check yourself, this includes liberals too lol so your little right wing conspiracy thing doesn't work either.

So you admit you are anti-American, but you simply can't bring yourself to say it?


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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:31 PM

Well well... I actually agree with what you are saying. Ninja's hate of Obama and liberals is well know but he is absolutely correct in pointing out that Obama was a weak leader. It is not about repealing the invasion by the Russians. It is about all bark but no bite. The man needs to stop drawing lines and threatening world leaders with consequences. 

 

Ultimately, I am glad that Obama nor the congress will not authorize any type of military action and most likely any economic sanctions. The conflict is none of our business and we can only show our disapproval. 

 

Actually, there's a raft of economic and diplomatic punitive actions under consideration including freezing US trade discussions with Russia, potentially expelling Russia from the G8, freezing travel visas, preparing a large foreign aid package for the new Ukrainian government and that sort of thing.  Russia agreed to a German offer to let international observers into Crimea to keep an eye on events. 


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#19 Sarang01

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:44 PM

In this thread:

TC constantly bitches about Obama being virtually a fascist dictator and then creates a thread about Obama being a foreign policy pussy while wanting a more authoritarian President.

Can't make this shit up, fellas... :rofl:

Like seriously, what can Obama do? Invade the country? The best he can do is convince the EU to use soft power to dissuade Putin from going too crazy.

Because Obama is a Fascist?  Just like Bush had been.

 

Obama doesn't care about the Civil Rights ensconced in our Constitution and would just as soon use it for toilet paper.  Oh and don't tell me he's a Constitutional Lawyer so somehow that makes it better, that him shredding the Constitution makes sense because he implicitly understands it more then me being a "Constitutional Lawyer".  That type of shit is right out of the 1984 playbook.
His admin and the Bush one follow what Goebbels said about telling a lie too.  I think I'm just incensed in general as it really heated up under Bush but with Obama this bullshit has reached a fever pitch.
One day I suspect I'll be doing a radio broadcast for interviewing a lawyer who is representing a terrorist about the former finding their civil rights violated then suddenly I'll be yanked off air pitched in a black jail.


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#20 mrsilkunderwear

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 05:09 PM

Actually, there's a raft of economic and diplomatic punitive actions under consideration including freezing US trade discussions with Russia, potentially expelling Russia from the G8, freezing travel visas, preparing a large foreign aid package for the new Ukrainian government and that sort of thing.  Russia agreed to a German offer to let international observers into Crimea to keep an eye on events. 

Keyword would be consideration. I may be wrong but in the end I doubt anything serious will happen. Expelling Russia from G8 is no big deal and neither is giving an aid package to Ukraine. Right now this should be a regional conflict and we need to keep out noses out of Eastern Europe especially since China just backed Russia. 



#21 dohdough

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 05:23 PM

Aw you are still butthurt about Obama being constantly wrong? You are RIGHT I can't make this shit up because it keeps coming from Obama's OWN MOUTH.


Dude, the argument you're making is exactly as I stated. It has nothing to do with my "butthurt" or anything that's coming out of Obama's mouth; it's coming through my monitor as your digital diarrhea.
 
 

Because Obama is a Fascist?  Just like Bush had been.
 
Obama doesn't care about the Civil Rights ensconced in our Constitution and would just as soon use it for toilet paper.  Oh and don't tell me he's a Constitutional Lawyer so somehow that makes it better, that him shredding the Constitution makes sense because he implicitly understands it more then me being a "Constitutional Lawyer".  That type of shit is right out of the 1984 playbook.
His admin and the Bush one follow what Goebbels said about telling a lie too.  I think I'm just incensed in general as it really heated up under Bush but with Obama this bullshit has reached a fever pitch.
One day I suspect I'll be doing a radio broadcast for interviewing a lawyer who is representing a terrorist about the former finding their civil rights violated then suddenly I'll be yanked off air pitched in a black jail.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I agree with half of what you're saying, but that isn't the argument that's being put forth by the OP. Dude just likes to bitch about Obama...almost as if he had this uncontrollable compulsion to do so.
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#22 Sarang01

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 05:38 PM

Well you know me dohdough and I think you know I'm consistent most of the time in calling out both sides on bs, especially when it comes to Civil Rights violations.

As for the OP, I have nothing but disgust for someone who calls one side out on what they don't like but are unwilling to be consistent towards their own side.

 

I only wish I could get Myke to wake up and quit acting like a partisan hack, giving free passes to Democrats on Civil Rights violations.


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#23 RPGNinja

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:38 AM

Well you know me dohdough and I think you know I'm consistent most of the time in calling out both sides on bs, especially when it comes to Civil Rights violations.
As for the OP, I have nothing but disgust for someone who calls one side out on what they don't like but are unwilling to be consistent towards their own side.
 
I only wish I could get Myke to wake up and quit acting like a partisan hack, giving free passes to Democrats on Civil Rights violations.


Except this is only about Obama, if you want to talk about Bush then make a topic about Bush and I can point all the thing he did wrong. People just need to stop living and the past and realize Obama is making mistakes too but either because they don't want to criticize him because they are a liberal shill or they are afraid to criticize him because he is black and they are afraid of being labeled a racist.

#24 RPGNinja

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:39 AM

Dude, the argument you're making is exactly as I stated. It has nothing to do with my "butthurt" or anything that's coming out of Obama's mouth; it's coming through my monitor as your digital diarrhea.


Okay so you are admitting what Obama is saying is diarrhea then because all I am doing is reporting back on what he has said. I can't believe you are finally coming around despite being liberal hack.

The problem is you just keep passing it off because you don't want to admit you are wrong in supporting him. Obama is by far one of the worst presidents of all time and it is not even close.

It is like Carter, Bush and Obama in the top 3. But guess what? Obama is the president NOW hence why there are more topics on him than other presidents. Sorry that is so incoveneniet for you but it is called "Current Events" if you can't bare to watch his repeated screw ups than I have a newsflash for you. Don't turn on the TV.

#25 Blaster man

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:40 AM

The media on both side of this Ukraine thing are inflaming this to the extreme.  So let me put this thought experiment out there.

 

1.  The US gives Texas to Mexico as a gift.

2.  60 years pass and a Texan is elected President of Mexico.

3.  Riots start.

4.  The Mexican army shoots a few protestors.

5.  The riots become much worse and the Texan President flees to the US.

6.  A new - unelected - government is set up in Mexico.

7.  People in Texas ask the US for protection.

8.  The US invades Texas.

 

How many people in the US would be in support of this invasion?  I'd say damn near everyone.  The western media on this thing is completely glossing over much of this in regard to Ukraine and the Russian media is outright over-the-top in it's outrageous coverage (I read some articles on "The Voice of Russia" news site).



#26 RPGNinja

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:44 AM

It is hypocritical of us to even get involved in Russia's affairs at this point but I was also pointing out yet another time where Obama made himself look like an ass and pretend Russia wasn't going to be a major player on the foreign stage.

Then again Obama thinks he is a brilliant leader in his own mind so it is not surprising.

#27 mykevermin

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:55 AM

It is hypocritical of us to even get involved in Russia's affairs at this point but I was also pointing out yet another time where Obama made himself look like an ass and pretend Russia wasn't going to be a major player on the foreign stage.

Then again Obama thinks he is a brilliant leader in his own mind so it is not surprising.

So you're both against Obama's nonintervention as well as his intervention.

 

:rofl: 

 

You're a right peach.


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#28 Blaster man

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:00 AM

So you're both against Obama's nonintervention as well as his intervention.

 

:rofl:

 

You're a right peach.

He probably didn't know the history of the province there.  I certainly didn't until I started reading up on it more.  Our media isn't exactly being forthcoming with this kind of stuff.  Not everyone in Russia is pro Putin - far from it in fact but a huge majority of the population is in support of this invasion and it really does make sense once you read about the history.

 

I don't think it matters what the US and EU do, Russia isn't going to back down from this.  I think they need to get in there and talk to Putin and get some kind of assurance that they aren't going to attempt to take the entire country.



#29 dohdough

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:32 AM

Okay so you are admitting what Obama is saying is diarrhea then because all I am doing is reporting back on what he has said. I can't believe you are finally coming around despite being liberal hack.

It's almost as if you don't understand what you're reading...
 

The problem is you just keep passing it off because you don't want to admit you are wrong in supporting him. Obama is by far one of the worst presidents of all time and it is not even close.

It is like Carter, Bush and Obama in the top 3. But guess what? Obama is the president NOW hence why there are more topics on him than other presidents. Sorry that is so incoveneniet for you but it is called "Current Events" if you can't bare to watch his repeated screw ups than I have a newsflash for you. Don't turn on the TV.

What does my support, or lack of it, have to do with your argument about people wanting a president that's more authoritarian, like Putin, as opposed to impotent, like Obama, AFTER the fact that you've consistently made him out to be a fascist dictator that's turning the US into a socialist plutocracy?

I'm telling you to back up your OP. Seriously, what the Fuck do you think the Cold War was? And how are they bigger than China for knocking the US off the Super Power throne? It's almost as if you don't really have an argument beyond "I hate Obama."
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#30 mrsilkunderwear

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 02:33 AM

It's almost as if you don't understand what you're reading...
 
What does my support, or lack of it, have to do with your argument about people wanting a president that's more authoritarian, like Putin, as opposed to impotent, like Obama, AFTER the fact that you've consistently made him out to be a fascist dictator that's turning the US into a socialist plutocracy?

I'm telling you to back up your OP. Seriously, what the Fuck do you think the Cold War was? And how are they bigger than China for knocking the US off the Super Power throne? It's almost as if you don't really have an argument beyond "I hate Obama."

Strawman.. your argument is invalid.