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Reason for User Ban


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#1 Cheaplikeafox OS X

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 02:29 AM

So user 

icedragon15

 

Asked me to see if he could get a reason he was banned so I'm just relaying the message here.  He claims he was just banned with no reason given to him by the mods and asked me to ask the mods about it.  

 

I have no horse in the race, just relaying his request.  


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#2 CaseyRyback

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 02:30 AM

Probably has a lot to do with the volume of reported posts that are generated as a result of him being here. I don't know who or why he was banned, but his act has worn thin.


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#3 Idiotekque

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:55 AM

Probably has a lot to do with the volume of reported posts that are generated as a result of him being here. I don't know who or why he was banned, but his act has worn thin.

 

It's worth asking though, how many of those reported posts were actually breaking rules?

 

If you can get banned for bad grammar and inside jokes, you guys may want to add that to the forum rules.


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#4 CheapyD

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:57 AM

Look at that dudes post history.



#5 Idiotekque

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:02 AM

Look at that dudes post history.

 

He was annoying. We're all very aware of that. But bad grammar and subjective annoyance aren't against forum rules.


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#6 Cheaplikeafox OS X

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:26 AM

He was annoying. We're all very aware of that. But bad grammar and subjective annoyance aren't against forum rules.

Yeah, I guess I was hoping for a more concrete reason, but I guess it is what it is.  


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#7 Idiotekque

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:28 AM

Yeah, I guess I was hoping for a more concrete reason, but I guess it is what it is.  

 

A "concrete reason" can't be explained if there never was a concrete reason behind the ban in the first place. That could very well be the case.

 

If a high quantity of reports against a user are made, even if said user isn't breaking forum rules, apparently he can get banned, from what we can see. So basically CAG can "vote to kick" a user.


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#8 sunasun

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:39 AM

ironically, a day after Dr. Seuss's birthday, one of the most non-sensical authors ever.


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#9 pitfallharry219

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:50 AM

Yeah, I guess I was hoping for a more concrete reason, but I guess it is what it is.  

Why were you hoping for anything? You said you didn't "have a horse in the race".


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#10 Idiotekque

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:52 AM

Why were you hoping for anything? You said you didn't "have a horse in the race".

 

Because opaque, nonsensical moderator activity is bad for not just the banned user, but for all of us.


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#11 Cheaplikeafox OS X

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:53 AM

Why were you hoping for anything? You said you didn't "have a horse in the race".

I don't, but I was hoping to be able to relay a concrete reason one way or another.  If they say it's because he did X or Y to break the rules then at least you convey that to him. So far it just seems the reason is people didn't like him/found him annoying.  Nothing one can really do about that.  


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#12 pitfallharry219

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 05:14 AM

I don't, but I was hoping to be able to relay a concrete reason one way or another.  If they say it's because he did X or Y to break the rules then at least you convey that to him. So far it just seems the reason is people didn't like him/found him annoying.  Nothing one can really do about that.  

Actually, if you read the rules, being annoying is specifically mentioned. It's not like Casey or Cheapy are just making shit up as they go along.


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#13 Idiotekque

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 05:20 AM

Actually, if you read the rules, being annoying is specifically mentioned. It's not like Casey or Cheapy are just making shit up as they go along.

 

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No, trolling is against the rules. That's intentionally posting shit to anger or annoy someone. That does not include posts simply with bad grammar that happen to annoy someone. That's not "intended" to annoy someone. Hell, MysterD (a user who constantly talks about the same things) annoys the shit out of me sometimes because he's a broken record, but is that a banworthy offense? No, it's not. Annoyance is subjective. Trolling is not.


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#14 hal

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 07:02 AM

No, trolling is against the rules. That's intentionally posting shit to anger or annoy someone. That does not include posts simply with bad grammar that happen to annoy someone. That's not "intended" to annoy someone. Hell, MysterD (a user who constantly talks about the same things) annoys the shit out of me sometimes because he's a broken record, but is that a banworthy offense? No, it's not. Annoyance is subjective. Trolling is not.

I'm guessing this is the clause:

"You may not engage in any behavior that interferes with the operation of CAG or its enjoyment by other users"

 

As you said, it's hard to abide by those rules because "enjoyment" is subjective. Clearly he was having the time of his life. ;)

 

Any word on whether or not this is temporary?

 

I'm not in favor of harassing moderators who do a thankless job (I've got a good chunk of experience in that field). It would just be nice to have some transparency so as to avoid an Invasion of the Body Snatchers scenario.   :beer:


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#15 Idiotekque

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 07:37 AM

I'm guessing this is the clause:

"You may not engage in any behavior that interferes with the operation of CAG or its enjoyment by other users"

 

As you said, it's hard to abide by those rules because "enjoyment" is subjective. Clearly he was having the time of his life. ;)

 

Any word on whether or not this is temporary?

 

I'm not in favor of harassing moderators who do a thankless job (I've got a good chunk of experience in that field). It would just be nice to have some transparency so as to avoid an Invasion of the Body Snatchers scenario.   :beer:

 

Maybe, that's just way, way too vague. Really though, that clause sounds to be more along the lines of a situation where someone impedes and screws up a giveaway, or sabotages a thread somehow, etc. Not simply bugging some people.

 

If anything, it's this clause (which I already talked about in my last post):

 

Trolling & Harassment
Posting unsubstantiated negative commentary intended solely to annoy and/or offend other users is not allowed.


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#16 sunasun

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 07:37 AM

I don't, but I was hoping to be able to relay a concrete reason one way or another.  If they say it's because he did X or Y to break the rules then at least you convey that to him. So far it just seems the reason is people didn't like him/found him annoying.  Nothing one can really do about that.  

/like

which violates the rule about abusing the reporting feature.  from my experience, they ignore you hoping you go away.  

 

 

 

Why were you hoping for anything? You said you didn't "have a horse in the race".

You're interfering with my enjoyment of CAG.  

 

No, trolling is against the rules. That's intentionally posting shit to anger or annoy someone. That does not include posts simply with bad grammar that happen to annoy someone. That's not "intended" to annoy someone. Hell, MysterD (a user who constantly talks about the same things) annoys the shit out of me sometimes because he's a broken record, but is that a banworthy offense? No, it's not. Annoyance is subjective. Trolling is not.

/like

well said.

ran out of likes again

need to go back to checking this daily again.   


Edited by sunasun, 04 March 2014 - 07:39 AM.

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#17 Cheaplikeafox OS X

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 07:46 AM

I mean if its just a matter of the mods or Cheapy found him annoying so they banned him, then it is what it is.  It doesn't really happen often (that I can tell) so I don't really see it as a huge problem, but I am a fan of more clear cut rules.  There's definitely much more annoying posters on the site (like the white knight in this thread), but it's usually the annoying people that are quick to report others and they don't get reported themselves because most people have learned to just ignore others if they find them annoying.    


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#18 Idiotekque

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 08:29 AM

I mean if its just a matter of the mods or Cheapy found him annoying so they banned him, then it is what it is.  It doesn't really happen often (that I can tell) so I don't really see it as a huge problem, but I am a fan of more clear cut rules.  There's definitely much more annoying posters on the site (like the white knight in this thread), but it's usually the annoying people that are quick to report others and they don't get reported themselves because most people have learned to just ignore others if they find them annoying.    

 

I have reported one person in my entire stay here on CAG.

 

Myself.

 

Really though, me and Blade got into some stupid off topic argument. I asked the mods to clean it up, and reporting Blade's post would have been assholey.


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#19 Flowette

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 11:13 AM

I never once reported Tebow/icedragon.

Mainly because I couldn't find the button.

I'm sure he's a nice kid and all, but really. Any thread he posted in lost 2-3 postspaces a page with drivel. Either him directly or with people replying in tebowspeek.

He had novelty value for a few days and somehow it just went on. And on. And on. It was a joke that never died despite being terribly unfunny. You don't need rules to point out the disruptive influence it had on any thread he posted in. Ban is justified.

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#20 Drabelincoln

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:09 PM

LOL

#21 Neuro5i5

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:53 PM

I understand the desire for transparency as well as the wanting clarification, especially on a permanent action such as this.  I mean a permaban should always include a reason why, at least once.  I can understand if users try to circumvent IP blocks not getting an explanation.  But, are any of you really surprised by this banning?  If you are, you're waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more liberal than I am.  This is just my opinion but if I built my own house, I'd expect a certain code of conduct within, without feeling the need to post it on the walls.  While this is 'the internet', it is also still Cheapy's house and I can respect that.


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#22 cyrus386

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 02:35 PM

Like most others, I'm not against a banning if the user earned it, and certainly icedragon15 had more than his share of reported posts.  But if it is true that he was banned without an explanation from the mods - or even a warning! - then this is very troubling indeed.  A member of this forum should at least have a chance to improve his behavior, especially one who is as active and has been here as long as tebow.  In many ways I consider this my home on the internet, and I would be very upset if I was suddenly cut off from this community and many people I've come to think of as friends without any reason why, or a chance to make amends.



#23 Cheaplikeafox OS X

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 10:52 PM

I understand the desire for transparency as well as the wanting clarification, especially on a permanent action such as this.  I mean a permaban should always include a reason why, at least once.  I can understand if users try to circumvent IP blocks not getting an explanation.  But, are any of you really surprised by this banning?  If you are, you're waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more liberal than I am.  This is just my opinion but if I built my own house, I'd expect a certain code of conduct within, without feeling the need to post it on the walls.  While this is 'the internet', it is also still Cheapy's house and I can respect that.

Except this house isn't built by Cheapy, it's built by all the users you post deals and make him money.  So yeah, at the end of the day, his site, his rules, his decisions, but this is a community based site which derives its values from community based posts/deals/contributions and the community using his referral links to shop online.

This isn't a house he bought and invited us in after the fact, he's used us to build it and he continues to use us for income.  

 

Like I said, I don't really care one way or another.  If some people found him disruptive/annoying then I could see that, but I just skip over any posts I don't find compelling and move on.  I don't really think any other regular is at risk of a similar banning so it's really a non-issue.  


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#24 DPsycho

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 12:20 AM

Like most others, I'm not against a banning if the user earned it, and certainly icedragon15 had more than his share of reported posts.  But if it is true that he was banned without an explanation from the mods - or even a warning! - then this is very troubling indeed.  A member of this forum should at least have a chance to improve his behavior, especially one who is as active and has been here as long as tebow.  In many ways I consider this my home on the internet, and I would be very upset if I was suddenly cut off from this community and many people I've come to think of as friends without any reason why, or a chance to make amends.

 

Cyrus said everything I wanted to articulate here.  If someone's posts are deemed problematic but a specific (as in, singularly terrible) infraction can't be isolated, that user deserves a warning first.  As far as I've experienced, the site doesn't generate any indication that your posts are being reported.  Ignoring this particular case, shouldn't JoeUser97 get a heads up that his posts are ruffling feathers before the plug is pulled?  I would expect that a vast majority of site users would want that to be standard procedure.



#25 Idiotekque

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 12:38 AM

I understand the desire for transparency as well as the wanting clarification, especially on a permanent action such as this.  I mean a permaban should always include a reason why, at least once.  I can understand if users try to circumvent IP blocks not getting an explanation.  But, are any of you really surprised by this banning?  If you are, you're waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more liberal than I am.  This is just my opinion but if I built my own house, I'd expect a certain code of conduct within, without feeling the need to post it on the walls.  While this is 'the internet', it is also still Cheapy's house and I can respect that.

 

The problem is if it's "your house" and you put up a set of rules for everyone to follow, you should be punishing the ones who break THOSE rules. Not unwritten ones.

 

 

Like most others, I'm not against a banning if the user earned it, and certainly icedragon15 had more than his share of reported posts.  But if it is true that he was banned without an explanation from the mods - or even a warning! - then this is very troubling indeed.  A member of this forum should at least have a chance to improve his behavior, especially one who is as active and has been here as long as tebow.  In many ways I consider this my home on the internet, and I would be very upset if I was suddenly cut off from this community and many people I've come to think of as friends without any reason why, or a chance to make amends.

 

That's not how it works here. Every time I've been silenced or banned (90% of the time by you know who, and I won't get into that), there are NO warnings and NO explanation of why you have been banned. Silences and bans here are knee-jerk with (usually) no reasoning behind them and that's what's frustrating to everyone who frequents this site and makes Cheapy money. That's really not cool.

 

Also, once you are silenced or banned, the system is broken. Not only do you receive no warning or information towards why you were punished, you can't communicate with the moderators whatsoever. Back when I was banned once (completely unjustly) I made a new account (with an obviously temporary name) and ONLY PMed Shrike for information about my ban. I even made it clear to him "I only made this account to message you and ask what happened, not to circumvent my ban." What happened? No reply, I received an IP ban immediately. The only option you have is to email Cheapy, which is a bit silly. That's the moderators' job, not his.

 

There truly is no logic behind the moderating system here. I understand these people are doing a thankless, unpaid job (which makes no sense, because they keep order on a FOR profit site), but that doesn't give them a free card to do anything and everything they want to. There still needs to be a level of communication, transparency, and understanding between moderators and users here, and currently there is not. Is that really that much to ask? It really isn't.

 

But it seems like Cheapy and the mods are more or less ignoring this discussion, and I'd be surprised to see any reply at this point. It's just a "this is how we do it, too bad" situation, and it's really kind of a slap in the face to people who love and support this site. This is why I left for awhile in the first place.


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#26 Neuro5i5

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 12:46 AM

Meh.

Don`t do stupid shit, don`t get banned.

So serious up in here.
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#27 Idiotekque

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 01:09 AM

Meh.

Don`t do stupid shit, don`t get banned.

So serious up in here.

 

It's easy to be apathetic to the matter when you're not on the receiving end of unfair and incorrect moderating. Tebow bugged the shit out of me too, but I've been on the receiving end of that and it's not cool.


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#28 dohdough

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 05:21 PM

Look at that dudes post history.


Just a quick nitpick...once a user has been permanently banned, you actually don't have access to their posting history from their username through any of their posts(if you can find them) nor through the member search. Maybe mods can, but not regular users.
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#29 r333k0

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 07:15 PM

I am curious about this, since in any thread I saw him post in, no one really expressed anger that he posted like, no one asked for him to delete his posts or for a mod to do something about it. I always thought it was a given that him posting like that as a member of the forums would continue.

It just seems any time he posted, and people said "huh?", everyone else just said "yeah, that's tebow, deal with it". Never really saw anyone actually mad, and if they were, they didn't say anything.

I haven't seen all his posts because the account link is hidden, am I missing something?

 

TL;DR If a bunch of people had a problem or were complaining about him, I never saw it.



#30 phantomphoenix

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:57 AM

Just a quick nitpick...once a user has been permanently banned, you actually don't have access to their posting history from their username through any of their posts(if you can find them) nor through the member search. Maybe mods can, but not regular users.

I agree. I have found one way around it and that's if the banned member has a blog. That's to say that the blog was not also removed. Looks like icedragon15 had a blog and here are the most recent posts.

 

I think Jeremy Barnes is responsible for this.