CAGcast #380: Rhode Trip

CheapyD

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The gang discuss which part of Destiny is worst, Wombat eats the best lobster roll, Shipwreck eats two too many gummy bears, and Cheapy attends TGS and has some news.
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Intro: Synth and Strings (Yomanda) -  Outro: MASK Outro
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I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.

 
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Hey Cheapy you are missing a big contender for next gen driving game. Project Cars is out in Nov and looks amazing. How does it stack up against Forza and Drive Club? I think it's Project Cars for me. I'll get the free ps plus version of drive club to try it out but Project Cars will be the shit especially once Sony VR and Oculus come out. The game supports vr which coupled with a driving wheel will make the ultimate racing game experience. Also Cheapy welcome back to the USSA the imperial dick that focks the world.
 
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Good show. No sprint in Halo. You are a super soldier so your normal speed is sprint. Like with jump, one jump is like a double jump. Abilities were added later which gave you a burst run, booster pack jump, etc. D4 was originally only kinect but they added controller support later so its both now. You can put me down for an entry into the free code too thanks!

 
Wombat, you really did a nice job analyzing the successes and shortcomings of Destiny.  I was never really interested in the game after playing the beta, but you kept me interested throughout the discussion. 

 
Wombat- I absolutely agree with your assessment on Destiny.  Most of the game's problems are completely related to presentation.   Destiny's story, while forgettable, is not significantly worse than any other game. I think part of what makes the game story seem worse than it is comes from the fact that you don't have very much interaction with NPCs.  

Good show guys!

 
Wombat- I absolutely agree with your assessment on Destiny. Most of the game's problems are completely related to presentation. Destiny's story, while forgettable, is not significantly worse than any other game. I think part of what makes the game story seem worse than it is comes from the fact that you don't have very much interaction with NPCs.

Good show guys!
I agree with both of you. The internet has put too much focus on the thin story. Most shooters have thin stories. As far as the caves, there are chests in plenty of the caves. It's all random. You can also find resources. The long load times likely come from connecting to the servers and loading in all of the environments. There are multiple people pinging the servers. The levels are huge and there are no load times once the planet is loaded. If it was single player, it would likely load much faster. From a design point of view, if the tower was smaller, you would end up with everyone on top of each other. I think most of the issues are annoyances, but I can understand why they are there. As far as the grimoire, do you really want to waste time reading it in game, or would you rather play the game? I wish more games put their fiction on a second screen so I can enjoy it on the go.

The game does change once you hit 20. The loot drops increase significantly and becomes less of an issue. The focus is more on the strikes and getting specific types of loot. You can pick the level want to tackle and some new activities become available. I suspect because you blaze through the low levels so fast, it doesn't make a lot of sense to invest in really good loot for those levels. I'm really enjoying it a lot.

 
I feel like if this were any other game that weren't as hyped as Destiny, or if it weren't Bungie who developed it, then Wombat wouldn't have been so apologetic about the shortcomings of the game. Shipwreck totally had it right. There is no story in this game, and not having loading times wouldn't have made it any better. The load times are another flaw in the game.

Everything about Destiny is mediocre, except the core gameplay, which is solid. To say that things could be fixed in a patch is completely missing the point. Of course they could add more to the game, and they will. Except that a majority of the additions to Destiny are going to be a part of the season pass, and a part of expansion packs.

Trying to lump Skyrim in with Destiny seems pretty laughable considering the amount of depth in Skyrim, compared to the lack of anything of substance in Destiny. Skyrim has multiple smaller stories inside of one larger one. Destiny has one story, and it's not even coherent for most of the game. There are four characters in Destiny. Your guardian has no backstory and nothing is really explained to you except for black and white "save the world". The game has no twists or turns, there is no arc to the story except bullet sponge boss, after bullet sponge boss.

 
Currently enjoying the podcast.  I'd be all over that Pez factory.  Keep up the good work!

Also, I'd love to win that code for Xbox one.

 
Good show gents.  I enjoyed the nuanced destiny discussion.

I'm more with wombat here though...a few small tweaks and we dont worry as much about the thin story.  I play while listening to podcasts anyway (dont tell me to stop, you guys are one of them!), which is something I cant do with say, TLOU.

As for loading times and loot.   I actually really like that you have to go back to the tower (although the time it takes to get their is dumb)...b/c guess what, borderlands had loading screens too, it's called standing around and waiting for your party members to finish comparing their "slightly better than the last 17 guns" gun.  the way the loot drops in borderlands interrupted the flow of play actually turned me off to it..And i like having gun time, and then once i have some stuff saved up, make a run to the tower to see what's going on.

Ship - sounds like you might be "done" and I loathe a game that says "real game unlocks at level X", but my take on Destiny was level 1-5 i basically didn't like it.  5-15 i was like "hmm, ok, this is alright, and 15-20 was a lot of fun.

The added bonus of being level 20, is you can play the various missions at variable difficulties...so if you have friends along, you can run mission at level 20, and it's necessary to have help, or you can run it at 8 (easy) or 12/14 (they call this "hard"), but when you are level 20, you can easily solo these missions.

just my .02.

 
excellent show.... Shipwreck I believe that hole the actor dives into on the Destiny commercial is Vault of Glass (haven't played but I was watching a stream where the team was jumping platform to platform and I thought they were playing Vault of Glass)....

Would like to be included in the Kickbeat Xbox One giveaway.

 
Wombat,

The idea of using the Overlook Hotel as a first person game mod has been attempted before but because of the impossible architecture used on the film's interior space, attempts to do so were unsuccessful.  Kubrick intentionally created an interior that could not exist in reality for the Shinning.  It's one of the underlying subtleties that make that movie so unsettling.  An example of the one of the paradoxes would be the window in the manager's office in the beginning of the movie.  The office is in the center of the building and not sharing any outside wall.  

There's a vid on youtube that talks about this.  I haven't watched it in a while but its good stuff.  Check it out:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sUIxXCCFWw

 
Here's Shipwreck's complaints against Destiny:
 
1. No story; repetition
2. Enemy AI isn't good
3. Bosses are nothing more than bullet sponges; go on way too long
4. The loot is not good
 
That's pretty hilarious because you can apply that perfectly to Borderlands.
 
1.  Example of a typical Borderlands mission:
Get mission from person/board in town.  Mission specifies to collect X from Y to get Z.  Travel to area.  Shoot enemies until you get X from Y.  Hand in X and get Z.  Examine Z to find out that it's no better than the Z you already have equipped.  Sell Z.  
 
Not a good example?  Here's another.  Lead Claptrap to computer and wait for Claptrap to access computer while you kill enemies.  Sounds pretty similar to Destiny, except replace Claptrap with Dinklebot.   
 
Borderlands is going for a comical characters with fantasy type environments.  Destiny is grounded in science fiction with more realistic environments.  Vault Hunter seeking the ultimate loot, is no better story line element than Guardian seeking to recapture parts of the solar system from invaders.
 
2.  Here's an example of enemy AI in Borderlands: Level 40 Psycho sees you and runs in your direction.  Unload full magazine into the Psycho's face.  Psycho continues to run at you unabated.  Run backwards while reloading, and then unload second full magazine into Psycho's face.  Psycho dies.
 
3.  Example of a Borderlands boss fight: Spiderant boss looks like every other spiderant, but this one is scaled larger and maybe is a different color.  Unload hundreds of rounds of ammunition into the boss.  Kill small spiderants that have spawned all around the spiderant boss.  Spiderant boss turns a different color.  Unload hundreds of more rounds into spiderant boss into the special unarmored yellow weak spot.  Kill spiderant boss and collect loot that is no better than the loot you are already carrying.  Sell loot.
 
The boss fights in Borderlands are the definition of bullet sponge battles that go on way too long.  In the later levels of Borderlands 2 on the Ultimate Vault Hunter setting every single enemy in Borderlands is a bullet sponge.
 
4.  The loot.  I mentioned this last week, but I'll mention it again.  Loot drops are plentiful in Borderlands, but after awhile it becomes inventory filling white noise.  Rare colored items abound, but in most cases they aren't very good.  It gets annoying to check every piece of equipment and compare them just to look for one that has a slightly better rate of fire, or one that has slightly better reload times.  Not to mention playing with three other people that picked up their slightly better weapon and now have to try it out to see if they like it or not.
 
I much prefer having rare loot drops that are actually hard to come by instead of being inundated with junk.  Borderlands loot drops are borderline annoying.  
 
Maybe the reason why MS is bundling Sunset Overdrive with the White Xbox One.

Microsoft seems very confident in Forza Horizon 2 because they are going to allow reviewers to stream on the 22nd and reviews come out next Thursday. Almost a full week before the game comes out

I'd like to win the code for Xbox One.

 
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I've only played the beta but to me it seems like the bigger issue with destiny is not a lack of story but a lack of personality. Take a game like sunset overdrive, it has personality like a shitty teenager but it's better than none.

Good show as always.

 
Cheapy, you have me interested now in Driveclub!

Every now and then I do enjoy a racing game.

Wombat, I'd love to win the code!

 
Wombat, on Uninformed Opinions you said your free Pez dispenser was from Over the Hedge, but here you say The Nut Job. I think we all want clarification as to which mediocre children's film your Pez dispenser is from!

I haven't played Destiny and based on this discussion I doubt I will. Even Wombat, who likes the game, sounded apologetic, which is the vibe I'm getting from all the reviews. To me it feels like if a great game comes out in the next month, Destiny is going to be forgotten. The discussion around Destiny seems to largely manifest from there being nothing else to talk about right now.

I would also like to be entered for the Kickbeat code please.
 
Wombat, on Uninformed Opinions you said your free Pez dispenser was from Over the Hedge, but here you say The Nut Job. I think we all want clarification as to which mediocre children's film your Pez dispenser is from!

I haven't played Destiny and based on this discussion I doubt I will. Even Wombat, who likes the game, sounded apologetic, which is the vibe I'm getting from all the reviews. To me it feels like if a great game comes out in the next month, Destiny is going to be forgotten. The discussion around Destiny seems to largely manifest from there being nothing else to talk about right now.

I would also like to be entered for the Kickbeat code please.
 
Cheapy, I drank the low carb kool-aid back in April. I have dropped 57 pounds since then.

I am on the Keto diet which focuses mostly on fats. 70% fat, 25% protein and 5% carbs. This is usually under 20 grams of carbs. It's been working fantastically and I plan on losing a total of 70 pounds by the end of the year.

If you liked Fed Up, check out Fat Head. The guy who did it is kind of annoying, but he brings up some super good points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs

Also, Ship, what kind of music do you usually enjoy? You mentioned liking a particular station in Horizon. Wonder what you typically listen to on the way to work. I'm guessing 90s alt rock.

 
Something tells me that Wombat's idea of a "fun car" is a PT Cruiser

Cheapy does your decision have anything to do with the fact that Mtn. Dew will no longer contain Brominated vegetable oil? 

 
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I don't really post much in the CAGCast threads even if I listen from time to time.  I just wanted to say that I'll miss the Japan stories when CheapyD moves back to the States.

Off the top of my head,  I remember him almost shitting his pants, talking about going to a love hotel, making a commercial for the Tokyo American Club, being awkward around the Kotaku guy at TGS after that fake new story, the random school stories, and of course, the weird pizza guy who slept over at his house and then dropped off the face of the earth.

I think I'll miss that stuff the most.

 
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As far as sticking your head into breasts goes, well, there is a whole trope in hentai called nipple f****ing. I'll let you figure out what that entails. So sticking your head into it isn't that far off. And Oneechanbara is an ecchi game so it definitely fits. As you guys alluded to a bit I'm surprised I didn't hear really any outcry about that booth other than amusement and being weirded out by it. Maybe they finally realized there's no reason to attack Japanese games because it'd be fruitless...

Never got to play Super Bombad Racing, but always wanted to. Episode I Racer (the "serious" podracing game) was incredibly good, though. Love that game.

 
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Wombat, on Uninformed Opinions you said your free Pez dispenser was from Over the Hedge, but here you say The Nut Job. I think we all want clarification as to which mediocre children's film your Pez dispenser is from!
Now we can't even trust CAG for the straight answers. #Gamergate

 
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Good show.

1. Wombat made the right choice with Captain America. I don't know why anybody would lock up their content behind the iTunes wall. I want to see my videos on different devices. Even Xbox Video lets you see your stuff in a web browser. Even on a Mac.

2. D4 can be played with either a controller or Kinect.

3. Destiny has been getting blowback on Twitter. Check out the hilarious @legendaryengram parody account.

4. Cheapy should move into Wombat's neighborhood. Seriously. Good school. Mrs. Cheapy can commute in with Wombat.

I'd like to be entered to win the Xbox One game code. Thanks.
 
Wow. CheapyD. I hope you got your yard sale on. Why not move to the outer boroughs? A house is pretty nice to live in. Lots of fresh air, lots of places to walk. Fun fun fun.

 
I have to disagree with Wombat primarily on his point about Destiny's story.  If Destiny is going to be the 10-year project that Bungie envisions then it is going to need a passable story for people to engage with.  Halo 3's release was a huge event because people wanted to "finish the fight," not just because it had some new maps for multiplayer.  

More applicable to Destiny, Borderlands does have a story you can follow with a clear end goal, very engaging characters and a unique tone that is consistent throughout the game world.  This is all in addition to gameplay that feeds the compulsion for progress and loot.  Titanfall also gave gamers little else to engage with than fun mechanics, that while wonderfully executed, didn't hold their attention.

If Destiny doesn't get it's act together and give people a reason to actually care about the universe then a good chunk of its audience will skip the sequel. 

Congrats to Cheapy on the move!  It makes me sad that I left NY for Cali all too recently.  I hope having him back in the states only strengthens the community.

 
Couldn't have laughed harder at listening to Wombat mock Sunset Overdrive at 4am. Best Wishes Cheapy on Move back to NYC, the city I love.

Let me know your address so I can put burning poop at your front door or tag your door or both. Waika wakka
 
The show was great I laughd a lot, wombat actually had some good points 😁. Put me in the drawing for kick beat please
 
Cheapy,you will hate America. People are rude and the service is bad. I am sure Mrs. Cheapy's work-life balance will be much better. I hope this means bigger better things for CAG. Good Luck!
 
Rarely have I agreed with somebody as much as I agree with Shipwreck about Destiny, and rarely have I disagreed with somebody as much as I disagree with Wombat about Destiny. Every single mission being exactly the same isn't something that can be patched easily. Neither is a boring, lifeless game world. If I just wanted solid shooter mechanics and pretty graphics, I could replay any Halo game. Even then, there would be variety to the missions, shorter load times, and the world wouldn't feel so dead and boring.

All the hype about Destiny really didn't do it any favors, either. It would have had to be spectacular in almost every way to live up to that hype.

 
Cheapy,

Your annoucement to the return to America was like a shotgun blast to the chest. It was almost as grand like Shipwreck's announcement of his baby.

What is the first thing you are going to eat? A hotdog and jiuce from Papaya King? What about a pastrami sandwich on rye with spicy mustard? Or, will you go for the funky suhsi rolls you ate in Las Vegas?

I know its early, but welcome back.

 
Wow Cheapy is moving back to USA. I started listening to the Cagcast since the first episode and my second year of college, never missed one so far. It's just crazy all these years listening to you guys, through shitty days and amazing days. Just having an audio break that kept me in the loop and just always made my week or weeks. Thank you for continuing to do this podcast, everybody involved. Good luck with your move to NYC Cheapy!

on Shipwreck's point about Destiny, I feel the same way he does in some aspects. It's not the story he thinks is important, it's the fact that there's this insanely mysterious world/lore/characters involved and there really is nothing there to be interested in. I picked up an XB1 w/ the free Destiny last week, and I have to say I'm enjoying it, but I don't care enough about the world to keep on enjoying it as much as I should be. There's a lack of cohesion. And now that I'm lvl 21, it's too late for me to even care because all my focus is on the grind/gear now. It's the definition of an OK game in my book. Not bad, not amazing, just OK.

 
Good show.

I know Shipwreck and Wombat both said hiding under a bed in a game isn't something fun for more than a second, but I'm a fan of horror games were you can't kill all the enemies, where you have to hide, so I disagree that fun can't be had.  The original clock tower games are to me way more intense when all you can do is hide from Scissorman than any game where you can shoot zombies.

I think Wombat might not have been getting Shipwreck's point.  The story in a game provides context.  Destiny doesn't provide this context for the world, what you're doing, or just for the missions.  Borderlands misisons are all go to the marker and do stuff.  But You know what the world is, what the motivation for the characters in the game are and every mission tells you what the objective for each one is.  The story might not be good (though Borderlands 2 actually has a pretty good story arc) but it provides context, humor, and motivation.  I think the technical issues are more apparent because there's less of a player investment into what is going on.  Not every game needs a good story, or one at all, but Destiny sets up all this epic sounding background and then does nothing with it making it much more noticable.  It'll be interesting to see how they improve and change the overall structure of the game for future iterations.

I'd be interested in Kickbeat.

 
I think we'll all miss hearing Cheapy's crazy stories about Japan like the stuff about the russian mafia, Tokyo American Club, the crazy crap he has to go through with Tai's school, the nonstop instagram photos of cars and Tai, and how Cheapy used to do all of those YouTube videos such as the Japanese toliet w/ the holy asswash. 

The only thing I have to say about Destiny is that killing things is fun (gunplay as some guys say) and the pvp is solid since it's a lot like Halo in many ways. Yeah, it was overhyped and the loot really needs to be improved. Ship's opinion pretty much matches my own for the most part.

Lastly, I do want to thank the three of you for doing the podcast for this long. I had no idea it was going on for nine years (assumingly nonstop?). The podcast helped through my toughest of the times earlier this year when I was finishing my school and working full time. I would listen to the podcast on my late drive home from work and the crazy conversations is what kept me awake during those tiring and stressful times of driving my crazy commute home and finishing papers/projects at work (lol). 

Anyway, godspeed to Cheapy and I guess I'll listen to Wombat's podcast until Cheapy comes back.

Oh, and a code for Kickbeat will be cool, lol.

 
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I love the concern people have about handhelds/phones being able to fit in their pockets that seem like they'd only come from people that wear skinny jeans or whatever that isn't a normal pair of pants. I've nearly had problems with my PSP, Vita, or my large-ish smartphone that would suggest I couldn't fit them into my pockets with any issues.

Wombat discoveries the greatness of ultraviolet/Amazon codes in Blu-rays, which let you watch the movie without having to actually use the disc on any device with those apps. I don't buy Blu-rays without them if I can help it.

I really don't get why you guys are saying that Sunset Overdrive shouldn't be a full-priced retail game because it has a cartoonish art style and an attitude of a Dreamcast-era title. Does it not have enough content, modes, features, and all that to be worth charging $60 or is it just the presentation and look of it? I didn't hear you guys say much of anything to back up your claims, so it just sounds like bias against the look of the game.

I love that Wombat went for Shipwreck's jugular and attacked the stories of Borderlands and Skyrim as being similar in success to Destiny, which were two of his most favorite games of the past five years. It's like an attack directly at his gaming heart. I get the impression that Shipwreck is "offended" by Destiny not being Borderlands because he loves Borderlands too much.

Why is it only until now is it that Bungie's bullet sponge enemies are a problem after Halo games were completely plagued by that each time? Now that there are stats tied to it, the sponge aspect is a little more tolerable, but it still errs on the side of being too long to take out most enemies. I really enjoy the gunplay itself and the enemy AI that challenges me to switch weapons, use my special abilities, and all that more than most other games.

The whole experience of Destiny feels like a game like Mafia II, which offers a linear game in an open world with no actual reason to explore the world. That's completely fine for me, but it sort of goes against the type of game you expect out of it. It's not a loot game either, so Wombat's demands for more loot don't fall in line with what that game is. The loot doesn't change how well you do in the game any more than just the type of gun itself, as it's the upgrades you get with each level that changes the way you play the game. The armor loot barely changes the look of your character at all, which is the core result of a loot game that makes it easy to tell who is a vet and who is a newbie from just glancing at them. Diablo III doesn't hold up at all without the loot but Destiny could if it had the story and mission/world design to back it up.

The story is also another aspect of the game that feels like I'm playing the early chapters of a story that I'm not sure where it goes since I'm playing an amnesiac who gets fed bits of story by the ghost, which is interesting that it's basically a second-person story but not done that well since there is only one character to relay that story to you. Obviously, they placed way too much reliance on their site to explain what the hell Grimoire Cards were and why we should care about them when that's where all of the background information is located. It's like Bungie did a lot of research into how much lore people pick up from MMOs when it co-op or whatever and saw that people ignored most of ignored and decided not to try to fill the world of Destiny with that lore at all.

It's cool to hear that Cheapy plans to move back to the US.

 
i just wanted to report in that I've had a really great time playing destiny strikes and heroic daily/weekly strikes missions (+ crucible) all weekend...

ship.  upon further reflection, the language in the podcast veered from "i felt like" destiny was X to "destiny IS" X.  where X is boring, repetitive, or not fun.  I dont think it was your intent to make broad proclamations in absolute terms, and figure it was just the nature of having a 'discussion' with wombat ...

FYI - i didnt really like borderlands that much, so perhaps that's the difference.  

 
I gotta second FriskyTunaki's statement about the discussion about the price of Sunset Overdrive.  Frankly a lot of the reasons you guys mentioned about it reminding you of the weird style of Dreamcast games is what interests me about it.  I don't even own an Xbox One and you had me half sold with talking about how it's a little bit of Power Stone and Crazy Taxi and Jet Set Radio and so on.

 
Good show, however the Destiny discussion was a bit painful to listen to. I have a level 24 Warlock on PS4.
 
At level 12 (or lower) you guys really are missing the point of the game -- and should give it more time before passing judgement.
 
The first 20 levels / story mode is essentially the tutorial. The game completely changes when you hit 20.
 
Unlike Diablo, getting a good drop in destiny is relatively rare -- but when it does happen it is meaningful. Below 20 the loot is just enough to enable you to progress and level up. After 20 the loot is how you level up and it comes far more often, but getting the right drop may take a while.
 
The strikes that open at 20 and the higher level ones that open as you get better gear are great coop experiences for random matchmaking or to bring in a group of similar level friends. You also don't need to keep going back to the tower if you don't want, you can just stay and jump into another mission.
 
At 20 (and higher) you also have a good chance to get decent gear from the competitive multiplayer after the match has concluded. Some of my best gear came from here. It's not based on how well you do in the match. I've gotten gear going 6-12 and 12-10.
 
Also, after 20 reputation starts to matter. The bounties for vanguard & crucible rep are worth doing to raise your reputation level so that you have access to the purple items that the vendors offer. These items are the easiest way to get to a high light level to access harder content and get a chance at better drops. Further, a higher rep with the cryptarch will get you better gear when you turn items in.
 
What your seeing at level 12 doesn't really reflect the game that will keep you playing long after you hit level 20. 
 
That being said -- I agree completely with some of the complaints. Moving around (Tower, to Planets, Matchmaking) takes FAR too long. And the story is pretty bad -- with no way to skip the dialog / cutscenes. 
 
You can put me in for the Kickbeat lotto -- it looks wacky.
 
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It was "spoiled" beforehand for me, but now that I listened to it: grats on moving Cheapy. Even though I'm pretty much a weeaboo (huge anime fan, etc etc) I can totally sympathize with you wanting to be back in the US. I personally would not want to live in Japan, either. I'd love love love to visit it, but I highly doubt I want to live anywhere outside of the US. I'm too much of a picky eater and I'd miss my 'Murrica portions.

As for iPhones in pockets - I am able to have my 3DS XL in my pocket alongside my wallet and keys and it works fine. Can sit down, stand up etc with no issue. Yeah it bulges out a little more than normal but it doesn't bother me. Having just a slightly larger phone in the pocket is not a problem.

 
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