S.C. cop shoots unarmed man who's trying to get his drivers license (with video)

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http://youtu.be/zVnKxdMzEXM

COLUMBIA, SC — An S.C. trooper who stopped a man for a seat belt violation outside Columbia and then shot him – apparently without provocation – was arrested Wednesday and charged with assault and battery of a high and aggravated nature. Sean Groubert, 31, a lance corporal who was fired from the Highway Patrol after the shooting incident, now faces 20 years in prison if convicted of wrongfully shooting the driver, Levar Jones. 

http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/26620180/state-trooper-who-shot-unarmed-man-charged-with-assault-and-battery

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/24/ex-trooper-who-shot-unarmed-man-faces-charges/16178961/

Give that piece of shit the max they can give. Just another trigger happy cop who needs to go away for a very long time.

 
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Indeed.  Of all of those shots he fired (two of them at close range) only ONE hit him, at a fairly busy looking gas station.  Not to mention he kept shooting after the guys hands were up.

At least nobody died this time, unlike the Walmart incident in Ohio back in August, which resulted in two deaths due to police over-vigilance.

 
nothing to see ... move on !!!!   Military police amerika, never makes mistake.

It you vs. them

Gov't only need to spy on its people, when they no longer trust its people.

Same reason you would spy on your love ones, you no longer trust or have faith in them.

Welcome to the new world.

 
Finger_Shocker said:
nothing to see ... move on !!!! Military police amerika, never makes mistake.

It you vs. them

Gov't only need to spy on its people, when they no longer trust its people.

Same reason you would spy on your love ones, you no longer trust or have faith in them.

Welcome to the new world.
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You make it sound like the officer wasn't arrested. Perhaps read the title: "Ex-S.C. trooper who shot unarmed man faces charges"

Did they not move fast enough for you?

 
GBAstar said:
You make it sound like the officer wasn't arrested. Perhaps read the title: "Ex-S.C. trooper who shot unarmed man faces charges"

Did they not move fast enough for you?
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LOL!!!! I'll wait for a CONVICTION, that is what really matters,

What is he going to spend like 5 days in jail.... It'll be a slap on the wrist for these guys.

Why he wasn't charged with attempted murder is beyond me, oh cause hes a cop and gets a lesser charge. Guy had his hand up and he still was being shot at

Where is the good guy with a gun ...

 
It's crazy seeing video footage of something like this because it illustrates how far apart people's perceptions of things are. The guy being stopped assumes everything is routine and he can reach into his truck to get what the cop asked him for.

The cop, on the other hand, assumes that the guy is not doing what he asked and is reaching into his truck for a weapon and feels threatened to the point that he needs to open fire.

I mean, when dealing with police officers, you're taught "no sudden movements" and maybe he should have verbally communicated "My license is in the truck." But at the same time, you don't expect to get shot. You also don't exit your vehicle, as that's immediately seen as aggressive behavior. But the guy looks confused when he gets out though...like he didn't know he was being stopped...so that part of it is odd to me.

But the cop's communication is pretty terrible too. Yelling "Get out of the car!" twice and then opening fire does not adequately convey that the man is not doing what you wish for him to be doing. "Sir, stop!" or "Don't move!" would have been a better choice of words.

He says "Get out of the car!"...then when the guy actually complies, he assume he's retrieved his weapon and open fire anyway. This cop clearly can't think on his feet. Once the guy is in the car, tell him to stay there, lay flat across the seat, and put his hands behind his head. Then defuse the uncomfortable situation. There has to be a damn middle ground between 0 and 100 with law enforcement.

The cop wasn't 100% in the wrong for having a suspicious reaction. But God damn...yell at him and fall back to your car or something. Shoot first and sort it out later is not working.

 
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But she was wearing a short skirt, dancing with me all sexy, even her panties was see-thru how can she claim rape ?

Yes the victim deserved to be shot at, I mean he was basically asking for it... How farking appalling to try to even rationalize and defend this is crazy. Its people like that above that allows cops and gov't to get away with crimes, oh it was a honest mistake no worries, we'll be careful next time ... :whistle2:

Funny we won't blame the victim for rape crimes, yet when you are accidentally shot at and/or murder by a overzealous gun nut or someone with a gun, somehow it was the victim fault... LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go fark yourself seriously !!!!!

But all people with guns are trained !!! I mean having a CCW means I go for training all the time and I'm responsible.. Probably a good thing this cop didn't go training, otherwise he wouldn't have missed and only hit the guy in the leg at close range.. Lucky him..

And don't get me started about how our traffic laws have gotten way out of control, as a constitution loophole to allow for unreasonable searches, stops, and seizures.

Case in point, Porch shooter, Louisiana Holloween shooing, Detroit cop shoots 9-year old etc etc etc..... It was the victims fault
 
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Finger_Shocker said:
But she was wearing a short dance, dancing with me all sexy, even her panties was see-thru how can she claim rape ?

Yes the victim deserved to be shot at, I mean he was basically asking for it... How farking appalling to try to even rationalize and defend this is crazy. Its people like that above that allows cops and gov't to get away with crimes, oh it was a honest mistake no worries, we'll be careful next time ... :whistle2:

Funny we won't blame the victim for rape crimes, yet when you are accidentally shot at and/or murder by a overzealous gun nut, somehow it was the victim fault... LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go fark yourself seriously !!!!!

Case in point, Porch shooter, Louisiana Holloween shooing, Detroit cop shoots 9-year old etc etc etc..... It was the victims fault
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Can you please quote where anybody said he deserved to get shot?

My God you're an idiot. It is obvious that there is no help for you.

 
I would also like to know where anybody said anything like that. The one thing I wish in all these emotionally charged cases is that people could remove their emotion. Take away bias...and assess the situation objectively.

It amuses me that such an incredible lack of intelligence can be displayed that a person is unwilling to see both sides of a situation. [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]It doesn't mean you're choosing sides. It doesn't mean you're not sympathetic. It just means you're a level-headed, well-adjusted adult. Were there things the guy in the truck did that could have been misinterpreted? Yes, there were. That doesn't mean the cop was right in doing what he did.[/SIZE]

At the end of the day, maybe we just live in a world now where whenever you're interacting with somebody who has a gun, you take extreme caution. That doesn't exonerate law enforcement or give them free reign to shoot people. But I'd rather be safe than sorry. Again, it doesn't justify anything this officer did...but I promise you he has seen this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSxuhZ3HdQo

We need to find a way to train our law enforcement better so that these two extreme ends of the spectrum aren't so common. In some ways, just the act of them approaching the vehicle is dangerous. I'd much rather be stopped, instructed over a bullhorn to get out of the car, and show my hands...rather than have a cop trying to use his best judgment if I'm "going for a weapon".

Life is way too short to be dicking around trying to guess if somebody intends to do you harm.

 
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^ For me I see sadness in both sides; that an unarmed man was shot, (perhaps because of his race, perhaps because of his actions but most likely it's a combination of both) AND the fact that a policeman felt the need to shoot.

As the above poster pointed out, the man awkwardly entered his car. Does he keep his DL under his seat? I'm not saying he had any ill intent but at the very least it was weird.

Does that mean he deserve to get shot? Absolutely not! But I certainly can see why the cop might have thought he was reaching for a weapon... unfortunately that should be CONFIRMED before shots are ever fired. I hate the fact that police seem to enter EVERY situation like their life is in danger and everyone is trying to kill them...

Not a cops are bad... not all victims are innocent.

 
Well, that's what I mean...given the above video, should we even blame them for thinking that way? And ii that's legitimately the case nowadays...then we need to change protocol. If it's acceptable to think every person reaching for something in their car is going for a weapon, then you sure as hell shouldn't be walking up to the vehicle out in the open. They're applying new rules to old protocol....and that's why we're seeing these problems.

 
Bias... lack of intelligence. You should look yourself in the mirror. Once again you are basically making excuses for a inexcusable action.

Video clearly shows the VICTIM was still being shot at even after he back up from his truck with his HANDS UP. Apparently that little fact eludes you.
So your sad attempt to try to justify this officer action is pitiful at best.
 
I like that it doesn't even bother you that what you're saying is incorrect...as long as it serves your agenda. I'm guessing my original posts were too long for you to read because you missed the point entirely. Nowhere in it did I make excuses for the cop. The only thing I drew attention to were WHY the man's actions were misinterpreted. How in the holy fuck does that justify anything the officer did?

But if we're using expert video analysis here...fine. Let's look at the video. Two shots are fired immediately as the man quickly turns around while being yelled at to get out of the car (which I already said was dumb on the officer's part...the guy was doing what he told him to do...and he shot him anyway). The cop moves out of the frame, but it's probably safe to assume he's firing while backing away and taking cover himself.

Two more shots are fired while the man is visibly retreating. The first is as he takes his first step backward. The second is right as he puts his hands in the air. Any assertion that "multiple shots were fired after his hands were up" is an exaggeration to support your agenda. That DOES NOT excuse the officer's actions in any way, shape, or form. But it's what actually happened. And in the real world...people look at what actually happened...and then try to answer why it happened. If you're incapable of that, you're going to spend a lot of your life angry and confused.

It's obvious the guy didn't even think that what he was doing could be perceived as threatening. And it's sad that we're at that point in society. But the video I posted above shows WHY we've reached that point. But like I said, if we can't even wait on confirmation that people are reaching for a gun instead of reaching for their driver's license sitting on their center console, then we need to rewrite the way traffic stops are handled.

If law enforcement believes that strongly that they're going to be shot at, then they shouldn't be openly approaching cars and the instructions they give when pulling people over needs to drastically change.

But yeah, sure...I'm defending the cop...derp, derp.

 
I was going to reply to Shocker, but it's like arguing with a brick wall.

Back on topic:

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET SHOT BY THE POLICE DON'T GIVE THEM A REASON TO SHOOT YOU!

 
rebelschs said:
I was going to reply to Shocker, but it's like arguing with a brick wall.

Back on topic:

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET SHOT BY THE POLICE DON'T GIVE THEM A REASON TO SHOOT YOU!
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You can't argue with someone who is right ... just to let you know

Have you seen the video? or do your ass do the seeing and talking for you ?

No wonder police can get away with crimes, who are you going to report crimes from the police to? The police....lol Who is there to arrest the police ....

 
I like the shoot first ask questions later policy. It is one of the few things that does not punish people for doing the right thing.

 
renique46 said:
That caller should get the beatdown
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Yeah, he should. While he lied about the situation, and should hold some accountability, he still never claimed shots being fired. Since it wasn't an active shooting, "shoot on sight" should not have been the only option. But the cops came around the corner and blasted him before he even knew they were there, and the video shows that.

Also, a bystander died from a heart attack (or something similar) that was triggered by the panic that ensued from the shooting.

 
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I just still have to ask...WHY are these people doing what they're doing? Why is he walking around Wal-Mart with what is going to be perceived by everyone in the store as a loaded weapon that looks like a high powered rifle? People aren't going to see that and think "hmm...I bet that's a bb gun that was lying open on a shelf and isn't actually loaded...because that's totally normal to walk around with an open weapon like that"

For that matter, these bb guns and 22s looking like military weapons so they can be "cooler" is getting out of hand. I totally understand wanting to own things that look cool or scarier than they actually are. But you then can't act shocked when people mistake it for "the real thing"...especially when it looks like [customspoiler='this']
30117_2.jpg
[/customspoiler] [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]and you're waving it around the store. Of course it's going to get a reaction.[/SIZE]

At the same time...WHY aren't these officers doing a better job engaging people verbally first (or at the very least using non-lethal rounds)? I get that it's in a public environment...but wouldn't they clear people out of that area before just charging in? The claim is they ordered him to drop the gun first...and I think you can hear that on the video...but then he's shot like half a second later. He's sort of swinging the gun around though, so maybe that was perceived as him raising it. It gets kind of spazzy at that point.

I don't know, at the end of the day...you have more people doing stupid shit...on both sides. People have to have time to react and process. If you're not going to give the guy more than half a second to drop the gun, why bother telling him to drop the gun? And the bigger question I still have is what the fuck was this guy doing? Maybe Wal-Mart "created" this situation by having an open gun lying on the shelf, but how many of us would pick it up and walk around the store for almost 10 minutes? To me, that starts to raise some mental health questions.

It just feels like another one of those situations where it's frustrating that as evolved, 21st century human beings...this is the best we can do.

 
n8rockerasu said:
I just still have to ask...WHY are these people doing what they're doing? Why is he walking around Wal-Mart with what is going to be perceived by everyone in the store as a loaded weapon that looks like a high powered rifle? People aren't going to see that and think "hmm...I bet that's a bb gun that was lying open on a shelf and isn't actually loaded...because that's totally normal to walk around with an open weapon like that"

For that matter, these bb guns and 22s looking like military weapons so they can be "cooler" is getting out of hand. I totally understand wanting to own things that look cool or scarier than they actually are. But you then can't act shocked when people mistake it for "the real thing"...especially when it looks like [customspoiler='this']
30117_2.jpg
[/customspoiler] [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]and you're waving it around the store. Of course it's going to get a reaction.[/SIZE]

At the same time...WHY aren't these officers doing a better job engaging people verbally first (or at the very least using non-lethal rounds)? I get that it's in a public environment...but wouldn't they clear people out of that area before just charging in? The claim is they ordered him to drop the gun first...and I think you can hear that on the video...but then he's shot like half a second later. He's sort of swinging the gun around though, so maybe that was perceived as him raising it. It gets kind of spazzy at that point.

I don't know, at the end of the day...you have more people doing stupid shit...on both sides. People have to have time to react and process. If you're not going to give the guy more than half a second to drop the gun, why bother telling him to drop the gun? And the bigger question I still have is what the fuck was this guy doing? Maybe Wal-Mart "created" this situation by having an open gun lying on the shelf, but how many of us would pick it up and walk around the store for almost 10 minutes? To me, that starts to raise some mental health questions.

It just feels like another one of those situations where it's frustrating that as evolved, 21st century human beings...this is the best we can do.
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Who knows why he was walking around with the gun, but the kicker is Ohio (where this happened) is an open carry state. Meaning anyone can walk into a store brandishing an AR-15 or whatever and would not be breaking any laws. For all anyone know, the guy legally owned that firearm (if it were real) and was only exercising his 2nd amendment rights.

And yes, after listening again with headphones on, you can here someone say something before the shooting started... a split second beforehand and not giving him any time to react.

The guy who made the 911 call has already changed his story so many times, even claiming, on camera, that the victim never waved the gun or pointed it at people. So, yes, this clown shoe should be charged as well. But even his lies don't excuse the over actions of the officers.

 
Yeah, that is crazy...and just shows how mucked up everything is in this country. TECHNICALLY, it's legal...but it will scare the shit out of everyone around you, thus creating a dangerous environment...so, don't do it. Also, if that had happened, Wal-Mart could have (and would have) asked him to leave. So, yeah...legal...but not really, lol.

I'm a gun owner. I'm 100 million percent in favor of castle doctrine. If you break and enter my home...where my wife and daughter are, your intent is not my concern. You are dead. But open carry is the dumbest idea ever and almost always comes off as people trying to prove a point or get attention. You don't walk around with $100 bills in your hand. You don't walk around bare ass naked. Why? Because regardless of whether you have a right to, it affects the people around you and makes them act differently...which could create the exact situation you're trying to avoid.

Again, I'm a gun owner. But like I told my dad a few weeks ago after there was a shooting in my hometown (with a population of 4,000) at freaking McDonald's of all places...if we live in a world where you're constantly at risk of being caught in a firefight at Wal-Mart, McDonald's, etc. I'll just stay my ass at home. Carrying a gun isn't going to make me feel safer if I'm all of a sudden caught in the crossfire of somebody elses problem. I don't want to live in the wild west.

The lines at Wal-Mart are fucking terrible anyway, lol. I'm happy with Amazon. :)

 
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Some more good police work here.

Start at 2 minute mark if you don't want to watch the whole vid

http://youtu.be/WQOLv6oXetg

 
Florida police officer is on leave and an internal investigation has been launched after video was released of the officer using a stun gun on a 62-year-old woman who was walking away from him. Tallahassee Police Chief Michael DeLeo announced the investigation at a news conference Wednesday. DeLeo released the video, shot by a witness, saying he wanted to “be transparent with the community.” 
 
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That's the thing, if you don't want the police to take action against you, don't do stupid shit. Why the hell else would the dude walk around the store with a gun like that? DOn't give me that he was going to buy it bullshit, there were unopened items on the shelf.

The person who called that shit in, deserves what they get too.

I just wish people would stop doing stupid shit, and that people would have common sense when trying to defend the idiots that get themselves shot.

 
Naaa guy was black... so thats why they shot him.

If a white guy was carrying a assault rifle like weapon in OHIO, he would just be consider a Obama hating republican and standing up for his 2nd amendment right

Was there racism involved, sure thing, many police shooting involves white on black.

CCW ok for the whites not the minorities ?

 
rebelschs said:
That's the thing, if you don't want the police to take action against you, don't do stupid shit. Why the hell else would the dude walk around the store with a gun like that? DOn't give me that he was going to buy it bullshit, there were unopened items on the shelf.

The person who called that shit in, deserves what they get too.

I just wish people would stop doing stupid shit, and that people would have common sense when trying to defend the idiots that get themselves shot.
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Enjoy nimrod...

https://www.google.com/search?q=tea+party+carry+guns+to+rally&biw=1366&bih=612&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=snwsVKPhMdStyATkmIKwAg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg

I wish the police would of shot all these gun carrying idiots who brought weapons to "peacful rallies" and near gov't offices .... LOL

Just admit you are a racist and a total right wing republican so we can move on !!

 
I don't understand why he was so quick to shoot him. He wasn't even out of the car all the way when he shot him. I'm glad the guy survived this though. He should have said he was going in for his license just in case, but still, he should have waiting. 
 

I understand anything is possible. The guy could have pulled a gun, but at least wait and see. The guy didn't look like he was in any hurry and didn't look like he had planned to go for a weapon. I just think this cop went way overboard. 

 
ludus said:
I don't understand why he was so quick to shoot him. He wasn't even out of the car all the way when he shot him. I'm glad the guy survived this though. He should have said he was going in for his license just in case, but still, he should have waiting.

I understand anything is possible. The guy could have pulled a gun, but at least wait and see. The guy didn't look like he was in any hurry and didn't look like he had planned to go for a weapon. I just think this cop went way overboard.
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What the guy who was shot did or didn't do doesn't matter. All of that went became moot when the cop continued shooting at him when his hands were up. That is damning evidence that the cop lacks any self control and has no business being a police officer, let alone anybody who should legally possess a firearm.

rebelschs said:
That's the thing, if you don't want the police to take action against you, don't do stupid shit. Why the hell else would the dude walk around the store with a gun like that? DOn't give me that he was going to buy it bullshit, there were unopened items on the shelf.

The person who called that shit in, deserves what they get too.

I just wish people would stop doing stupid shit, and that people would have common sense when trying to defend the idiots that get themselves shot.
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It doesn't matter what he was going to do with it, he wasn't doing anything illegal. Even if the gun was real, he still did nothing wrong. He got shot because some dipshit lied to the 911 operator to make the guy sound dangerous and some hothead cops killed him in cold blood as a result.

 
sp00ge said:
What the guy who was shot did or didn't do doesn't matter. All of that went became moot when the cop continued shooting at him when his hands were up. That is damning evidence that the cop lacks any self control and has no business being a police officer, let alone anybody who should legally possess a firearm.

It doesn't matter what he was going to do with it, he wasn't doing anything illegal. Even if the gun was real, he still did nothing wrong. He got shot because some dipshit lied to the 911 operator to make the guy sound dangerous and some hothead cops killed him in cold blood as a result.
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Kind of disagree with a couple things here. Saying the cop "continued shooting" when his hands were up is a bit of a stretch. If we're going to argue for "time to react" in being told to drop the gun in the Wal-Mart case, you have to apply that here too. Four shots are fired in total. Two of them are immediate as the guy is quickly turning around out of his truck (wondering what the hell is going on, I'm sure). Because of the "get out of the car!" command, the cop has no clue what the guy is coming out with.

This is why it was stupid to say that, and put him in a lose-lose situation. The third shot is fired right as the guy takes his first step backward (which could definitely be seen as retreating). And the final shot comes right as the guy raises his hands in the air. All of this happens fairly quickly...and I think both parties reacted about as quickly as they could have in a situation where, I'm sorry...NEITHER of them should have been making any sudden movements. The big issue for me was the cop creating a situation where he "needed" to start shooting to begin with. Once the guy is in the car, you say "Don't move!" Not "Get out! (so I can shoot you)"

As for the Wal-Mart situation, that's why open carry is complete bullshit. Just in and of itself it could easily be seen as menacing and intimidation...even if you're responsibly carrying it. You can see in the video the man is swinging the gun around...and people have said that he was waving it around in the store. That's not acceptible behavior and shouldn't be defended with any 2nd ammendment bullshit. I don't care if you have a right to have a gun. I have a right to not be terrified that you're armed and dumb as shit.

 
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n8rockerasu said:
Kind of disagree with a couple things here. Saying the cop "continued shooting" when his hands were up is a bit of a stretch. If we're going to argue for "time to react" in being told to drop the gun in the Wal-Mart case, you have to apply that here too. Four shots are fired in total. Two of them are immediate as the guy is quickly turning around out of his truck (wondering what the hell is going on, I'm sure). Because of the "get out of the car!" command, the cop has no clue what the guy is coming out with.

This is why it was stupid to say that, and put him in a lose-lose situation. The third shot is fired right as the guy takes his first step backward (which could definitely be seen as retreating). And the final shot comes right as the guy raises his hands in the air. All of this happens fairly quickly...and I think both parties reacted about as quickly as they could have in a situation where, I'm sorry...NEITHER of them should have been making any sudden movements. The big issue for me was the cop creating a situation where he "needed" to start shooting to begin with. Once the guy is in the car, you say "Don't move!" Not "Get out! (so I can shoot you)"

As for the Wal-Mart situation, that's why open carry is complete bullshit. Just in and of itself it could easily be seen as menacing and intimidation...even if you're responsibly carrying it. You can see in the video the man is swinging the gun around...and people have said that he was waving it around in the store. That's not acceptible behavior and shouldn't be defended with any 2nd ammendment bullshit. I don't care if you have a right to have a gun. I have a right to not be terrified that you're armed and dumb as shit.
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Fair point, but I watched the video over and over a few times and from what I'm seeing, the third shot comes as he's starting to put his hands up, and the fourth shot is almost a half-second after he clearly has his hands up. A half-second may not seem like along time, but that should be plenty of time for any competent officer to clearly see there is no longer a threat.

The cop went into panic mode, which shouldn't have happened. Furthermore (and I've stated this before), two of his four shots were is very close range, and the other two were still short range, yet he only made hit his target once.

And I am in no way defending open carry. I think it's fuck ing stupid as well, and the people trying to make their "point" about the second amendment by walking around like fuck ing mercenaries are a bunch of idiots. I was just making a point that the law, as it is in the books, was never broken.

 
renique46 said:
The cop didn't know what he was going for? maybe the fucking thing he asked for not 3 secs before firing?
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Watch the video I posted on the first page. It's my understanding that that video is shown to LEO's in training these days. It's not unreasonable for the officer to be uncomfortable with him leaning in to his car like that. Like I said though, the fact that the guy was out of his car made the situation unnatural to begin with. It just wasn't handled properly after that point.

It's crazy how much more complicated people are trying to make this. It wasn't about race. It wasn't about police brutality. It was about somebody not doing his job properly, not thinking on his feet, and not understanding what type of situation he was creating. But seriously, thank God he didn't kill anybody.

sp00ge said:
Fair point, but I watched the video over and over a few times and from what I'm seeing, the third shot comes as he's starting to put his hands up, and the fourth shot is almost a half-second after he clearly has his hands up. A half-second may not seem like along time, but that should be plenty of time for any competent officer to clearly see there is no longer a threat.

The cop went into panic mode, which shouldn't have happened. Furthermore (and I've stated this before), two of his four shots were is very close range, and the other two were still short range, yet he only made hit his target once.

And I am in no way defending open carry. I think it's fuck ing stupid as well, and the people trying to make their "point" about the second amendment by walking around like fuck ing mercenaries are a bunch of idiots. I was just making a point that the law, as it is in the books, was never broken.
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You could be right. I watched the video several times, but I didn't get my stopwatch out. And at that point, we're starting to split hairs anyway. Ultimately, I think everyone should be able to agree that the situation was unnecessarily escalated...and most of the blame for that falls on the cop. The guy COULD have probably avoided getting shot if he had just said "my license is in my truck", but we all know in those types of situations, you're nervous and just try to do what you're told. He never did anything to disobey the cop...and was never endangering anyone else...and got shot anyway. That's what bothers me.

As for the cop's accuracy, one...I think he was purposely aiming for the legs...possibly in part due to the Michael Brown case. And two, based on the timing of when he crosses in front of the car, I think it's fairly safe to say he was backpedaling or taking cover while firing off those first shots. At a gas station, with other vehicles and people around, that doesn't really make it any better...but to me, that is at least what appears to have happened.

 
Oh, one last thing about open carry (and why it's so damn convoluted), you can still get arrested for disturbing the peace or even disorderly conduct if someone calls and reports you. Like I said...that could basically be 99.9% of the time if anyone sees it as menacing or intimidating, lol. So, yeah...considering that is what happened in the Wal-Mart shooting, he was technically breaking the law.

 
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n8rockerasu said:
It's crazy how much more complicated people are trying to make this. It wasn't about race. It wasn't about police brutality. It was about somebody not doing his job properly, not thinking on his feet, and not understanding what type of situation he was creating. But seriously, thank God he didn't kill anybody.
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I believe what you're looking for is Hanlon's Razor...
 
n8rockerasu said:
It's crazy how much more complicated people are trying to make this. It wasn't about race. It wasn't about police brutality. It was about somebody not doing his job properly, not thinking on his feet, and not understanding what type of situation he was creating. But seriously, thank God he didn't kill anybody.
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In case you haven't noticed, the police don't exactly have the best record of "doing their job properly, thinking on their feet, and understanding the type of situation they're creating" with the black community. Will we ever know if the situation would've played out differently if the driver was white? Of course not. But let's not delude ourselves on the fact that these types of incidents happen far more to black folks than whites under similar circumstances.
 
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dohdough said:
In case you haven't noticed, the police don't exactly have the best record of "doing their job properly, thinking on their feet, and understanding the type of situation they're creating" with the black community. Will we ever know if the situation would've played out differently if the driver was white? Of course not. But let's not delude ourselves on the fact that these types of incidents happen far more to black folks than whites under similar circumstances.
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Maybe. But at the same time...the media and what they cover is telling everybody what to think. Are these things actually happening more frequently than they were before or are they just making it look that way? A similar thing happened after the Sandy Hook shooting and the Aurora, Colorado shooting. We heard about almost every single gun related incident after that, and it even started to make me feel like things were "getting worse". Then, I realized...no, the media is just putting that type of spin on it.

Now, I honestly can't think of a benefit of whipping the black community into a frenzy and setting us back 40 years with these tense racial divisions. But it is a fact that situations like this where whites have been shot have happened...and haven't gotten nearly as much coverage. It just makes me wonder what the hell endgame the media is playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1UjKqzVDCw&index=11&list=UUZj3_eWQ4f4oHm_x-wsxG7Q

 
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n8rockerasu said:
Maybe. But at the same time...the media and what they cover is telling everybody what to think. Are these things actually happening more frequently than they were before or are they just making it look that way? A similar thing happened after the Sandy Hook shooting and the Aurora, Colorado shooting. We heard about almost every single gun related incident after that, and it even started to make me feel like things were "getting worse". Then, I realized...no, the media is just putting that type of spin on it.
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There is no "maybe." Countless studies and federal/state statistics verify what I'm saying. Mass shootings are on the up-tick as violent crime has been on the down-tick for over 20 years. As always, context is important if you want to be as informed as possible. If people think things are getting worse, then it's their own (willful) ignorance getting in the way of facts.


Now, I honestly can't think of a benefit of whipping the black community into a frenzy and setting us back 40 years with these tense racial divisions. But it is a fact that situations like this where whites have been shot have happened...and haven't gotten nearly as much coverage. It just makes me wonder what the hell endgame the media is playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1UjKqzVDCw&index=11&list=UUZj3_eWQ4f4oHm_x-wsxG7Q
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YOU might think that things are being set back 40 years, but believe me, things haven't exactly progressed all that much in that time either. For many of these communities, it's the same shit. Language might be softer and you can sped your money in more places, but that underlying racist sentiment persists. Oprah and Obama mean jack shit when there have always been extraordinarily rich and/or powerful individuals. Hell, look up Jack Johnson, the boxer.

As for the "media," there is no endgame beyond having advertisers pay for time. It'd behoove you to think about why you consume the media you do instead of trying to figure out some secret plot as to why the media does what it does beyond getting advertiser dollars. Even Rupert Murdoch would go full moonbat with Fox News if that meant he'd make more money that way.

Either way, cops shouldn't be gunning down citizens of ANY race and as the police become more militarized, the Continuum of Force model seems to be thrown out the door like it was spoiled milk.
 
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That's fine. I don't have much interest in discussing that other stuff. It just goes down a rabbit hole that I gave up on long ago. As for my "media consumption", for the most part, I try to avoid all news these days. Sure, I get stories here and there, and some things just generally infiltrate my life. But I've stopped seeking it out. Pretty much all the news is good for these days is depressing the shit out of you and making you want to kill yourself. If it's not beating on my door ruining my day, I don't care.

But like I said before, If our LEO's are that "jumpy" or quick to shoot these days, it would stand to reason that they should exercise more caution when approaching suspected criminals...whether this be in traffic stops or out in public (assuming that they don't take pleasure in mowing down civilians, of course). I don't know if lawsuits are going to be enough to change how things are handled...but ultimately, these incidents are going to keep happening unless protocol changes. It's not my job or my concern to make that happen. But from an intelligent perspective, from someone who doesn't give two shits about the color, beliefs, or political affiliations of anyone involved, that's the answer.

Again...

"Don't move!"

*Officer moves behind cover* (or is already behind cover if possible)

"Show me your hands!" / "Put the gun down!"

It's really not rocket science. If this is followed, there's not a need to shoot first.

 
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For someone who like to spout nonsense and irrational statements as facts, he doesn't watch the news or get any information from the media....?

A uneducated individual trying to spout facts..... oh he's one of those.....

 
dohdough said:
There is no "maybe." Countless studies and federal/state statistics verify what I'm saying. Mass shootings are on the up-tick as violent crime has been on the down-tick for over 20 years. As always, context is important if you want to be as informed as possible. If people think things are getting worse, then it's their own (willful) ignorance getting in the way of facts.
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I thought you would find this interesting... Try to look past "Breitbart.com" and focus on the fact that they are quoting CDC and FBI stats:

CDC, FBI: Bicycle and Falling Deaths Far Exceed Deaths from 'Mass Shootings'

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/10/01/CDC-FBI-Bicycle-And-Falling-Deaths-Far-Exceed-Deaths-From-Mass-Shootings

 
Finger_Shocker said:
For someone who like to spout nonsense and irrational statements as facts, he doesn't watch the news or get any information from the media....?

A uneducated individual trying to spout facts..... oh he's one of those.....
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No, I do not think he is a Liberal.

 
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