One post every three days for the Steam/etc. B/S/T thread discussion...

Neuro5i5

Neuro5i5

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RE: Steam/Origin/Desura etc Buy/Sell/Trade Thread - ONE POST EVERY THREE DAYS!
 
I'll be honest, this doesn't really effect me a whole bunch (unless a seller I deal with gets trading banned), but I figured I'd start a thread to discuss the merits/effectiveness of the currently in place rule.  I get the reasoning behind the 1 post every 3 days rule as there are some members who obviously abused the original 1 post every 1 day rule.  I'm not sure there is a solution that will appease everyone, but at least this should be an appropriate place to discuss the matter.
 
I think htz means well, and I appreciate the efforts to clean up that thread because it has kinda gotten out of hand, but I think it's mainly due to lack of oversight.  I'd say if htz (or any other mods) are planning to monitor the thread regularly now, my recommendation would be to create a new thread, using the same initial 1 post every 1 day rule, but then institute the seemingly current no tolerance trading ban for breaking said rule.  I mean, no offense to the other mods, but beyond reported posts, the current thread became like recess with no teacher supervision and everyone knew that.  People first started testing the rule and once they realized they could bend, then break it, no one cared.

Personally, I'd recommend for the B/S/T master thread - 1 post every 1 day; no discussions, just sale/wanted posts.  The caveat being that every seller have in their master thread post a link to their own personal sales post in general Trading subforum that could then be used for discussion for that persons sale items.  Of course, this would have the effect of watering down exposure for those already using the general Trading subforum.

Thoughts?

 
Neuro5i5 said:
Personally, I'd recommend for the B/S/T master thread - 1 post every 1 day; no discussions, just sale/wanted posts. The caveat being that every seller have in their master thread post a link to their own personal sales post in general Trading subforum that could then be used for discussion for that persons sale items. Of course, this would have the effect of watering down exposure for those already using the general Trading subforum.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Since Steam sales are a pretty big part of the site and there is a bunch of Steam sales, perhaps a separate forum (like the Lowball forum) would be a good idea for Steam resellers. That way the general trading forum doesn't have a bunch of Steam posts and people looking for Steam games only wouldn't have to scroll past console game lists as well.

 
What makes the Steam thread special and it should get one post everyday whereas the Xbox, PSN and digital movie thread have been operating now for a long time with one post every three days and haven't had any issues?  I'm not trying to be combative or anything I am genuinely curious.

 
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LordVila said:
What makes the Steam thread special and it should get one post everyday whereas the Xbox, PSN and digital movie thread have been operating now for a long time with one post every three days and haven't had any issues? I'm not trying to be combative or anything I am genuinely curious.
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The biggest issue is that there are certain resellers that can get games at a huge discount, and combined with flash sales that only last a few hours or daily or weekly sales they need to be able to update their prices regularly.

 
LordVila said:
What makes the Steam thread special and it should get one post everyday whereas the Xbox, PSN and digital movie thread have been operating now for a long time with one post every three days and haven't had any issues? I'm not trying to be combative or anything I am genuinely curious.
Click to expand...
I think mainly the issue pertains to the Steam resellers and that Steam has daily and during the shortly upcoming sales events potentially less-than-daily rotating sales.

Ninja'd
 
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One post per day sounds fine to me. I go for the international traders most of the time. The people selling 10 cent desura keys and posting every 4 hours is extremely annoying though.
 
Reds303 said:
The biggest issue is that there are certain resellers that can get games at a huge discount, and combined with flash sales that only last a few hours or daily or weekly sales they need to be able to update their prices regularly.
Click to expand...
Neuro5i5 said:
I think mainly the issue pertains to the Steam resellers and that Steam has daily and during the shortly upcoming sales events potentially less-than-daily rotating sales.

Ninja'd
Click to expand...
You can still update your prices though without having to make a new post.

 
LordVila said:
You can still update your prices though without having to make a new post.
Click to expand...
Yes, but not everybody is going to want to dig through multiple pages in order to find what they want. Also, everybody knows that nobody uses the search function. As far as the rule goes, I feel that 1 post per day is fair. This way, people are able to post the day of a new deal/bundle in case they have games they're looking to sell. The reason it worked in the PSN/Xbox thread is because they don't do frequent sales and bundles like those we see on PC.

 
LordVila said:
You can still update your prices though without having to make a new post.
Click to expand...
But most of the people, inculding myself have to scroll back that IF they updated their posts yet, all the way those unupdated post of others. Its waaay least comfortable.

 
Auburn said:
Yes, but not everybody is going to want to dig through multiple pages in order to find what they want. Also, everybody knows that nobody uses the search function. As far as the rule goes, I feel that 1 post per day is fair. This way, people are able to post the day of a new deal/bundle in case they have games they're looking to sell. The reason it worked in the PSN/Xbox thread is because they don't do frequent sales and bundles like those we see on PC.
Click to expand...
True, and frankly, I don't find the search function all that useful. That's part of why it can be a pain to hide your old posts--I can search for something like "dungeons" I may have had in a post and get 80 hits back. There doesn't seem to be (at least that I've found) any way to specify that you're looking for posts from a specific user (like yourself), which would resolve some of these issues.

A lot of people in the forum have suggested a "vetted international trader" list that would have members who could update posts and repost regularly when new sales come up. I feel as though this is a potentially-viable workaround if the mods police it properly. Alternatively, if a separate "bundle key" thread were created, then we could have all of the people posting bundle trash relegated to that one and only the resellers would use the current forum. This idea has been bandied about on several occasions but no one seems to have taken it seriously.

 
Auburn said:
Yes, but not everybody is going to want to dig through multiple pages in order to find what they want. Also, everybody knows that nobody uses the search function. As far as the rule goes, I feel that 1 post per day is fair. This way, people are able to post the day of a new deal/bundle in case they have games they're looking to sell. The reason it worked in the PSN/Xbox thread is because they don't do frequent sales and bundles like those we see on PC.
Click to expand...
All great points.

warreni said:
True, and frankly, I don't find the search function all that useful. That's part of why it can be a pain to hide your old posts--I can search for something like "dungeons" I may have had in a post and get 80 hits back. There doesn't seem to be (at least that I've found) any way to specify that you're looking for posts from a specific user (like yourself), which would resolve some of these issues.

A lot of people in the forum have suggested a "vetted international trader" list that would have members who could update posts and repost regularly when new sales come up. I feel as though this is a potentially-viable workaround if the mods police it properly. Alternatively, if a separate "bundle key" thread were created, then we could have all of the people posting bundle trash relegated to that one and only the resellers would use the current forum. This idea has been bandied about on several occasions but no one seems to have taken it seriously.
Click to expand...
Also great points. Having separate areas for mostly bundle leftovers versus international dealers makes a lot of sense. And the search function in this forum software is rather weak. Having lost the CML function sucks too; sig links aren't the same, especially when you have them turned off because some people's are ridiculous.

 
I agree that the quick nature of Steam sales requires that the resellers are able to update more frequently (the one post per day sounds fine). However, the bundle key resellers probably don't need this. The way I see it, we have 3-4 options:

1. Change the thread in question to one post per day (this could work, but might create a flood of posts from folks reselling bundle keys)

2. Change the thread in question to one post per day for foreign resellers (Kruguzor, Bernardo, and the like) and one post per three days for bundle resellers (this could work, but creates difficulties in enforcement/moderation, and more work for mods)

3. Split the threads into two separate threads, creating separate threads for bundle keys and foreign re-sellers (this might be the best choice, reasons detailed below)

4. Leave everything as it is (for obvious reasons, not the best choice)

I tend to favor creating two separate threads. These threads could have separate rules (one post per three days for the bundle thread, one per day for the Steam reseller thread), and alleviate problems from a moderation standpoint. The goal of all of this is to make it easier for people to find what they're looking for; for buyers to find sellers, and sellers to find buyers. At this point, there are countless bundles, and I do agree that the countless re-posts from some of them, or even daily re-posts were getting out of hand. Their stock generally doesn't change that often. That's a problem that needs to be addressed, as it gets in the way of people connecting with each other for sales and trades. However, the current enforcement of the rules ALSO gets in the way of people connecting with each other for sales and trades.

The nature of the deals on Steam is time-sensitive, and requires a different set of rules. As mentioned previously, the nature of bundles is not time-sensitive, and could easily be considered more similar to the console trading threads. As the Steam deals are more time-sensitive, they should be treated differently as well. Creating separate rules for users in the same thread could be problematic, and a nightmare to moderate. However, two separate threads makes the whole thing much easier.

As an added benefit, there are few enough Foreign Steam resellers that they could probably all fit on the first page of the thread, and update accordingly, with the various price-checks that occur moving to PM's. This would also make checking the thread easier for buyers, and give added visibility to the sellers. Furthermore, most of us on here know when a key has been bundled, or when we are looking for leftovers vs. looking for current sales, so a separate thread for the bundles makes even more sense. I know other people have suggested going Jake's route and creating private threads, which other users immediately complained about checking so many threads for. This solution seems to be the happy middle-ground.

EDIT: If we were to make a new thread, it could theoretically be possible to require a mod's approval to a new post (only on the foreign re-seller thread; the bundle thread stays as it is). This way, the bundle keys keep to one thread, price-checks and buys keep to PM's, and the post count stays low. With the small handful of re-sellers, they could ideally stay on one page, with everyone getting the same visibility, and just update the previous post (helpful during seasonal sales, too). Just a thought.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I'm sure there are plenty of problems with my approach, but we're here to discuss, right? ;)  Thanks for listening to my two cents.

DOUBLE EDIT: Ninja'd by Warreni ;)

 
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PKB Mac said:
I agree that the quick nature of Steam sales requires that the resellers are able to update more frequently (the one post per day sounds fine). However, the bundle key resellers probably don't need this. The way I see it, we have 3-4 options:

1. Change the thread in question to one post per day (this could work, but might create a flood of posts from folks reselling bundle keys)

2. Change the thread in question to one post per day for foreign resellers (Kruguzor, Bernardo, and the like) and one post per three days for bundle resellers (this could work, but creates difficulties in enforcement/moderation, and more work for mods)

3. Split the threads into two separate threads, creating separate threads for bundle keys and foreign re-sellers (this might be the best choice, reasons detailed below)

4. Leave everything as it is (for obvious reasons, not the best choice)

[stuff]

Sorry for the long-winded post. I'm sure there are plenty of problems with my approach, but we're here to discuss, right? ;) Thanks for listening to my two cents.

DOUBLE EDIT: Ninja'd by Warreni ;)
Click to expand...
Yes, everything's very well-articulated here, but I do want to point out that #1 and #2 probably won't make folks too happy because when there are flash sales during the Steam holiday sales, the one-post-per-X days rule will hinder the international sellers.

 
warreni said:
Yes, everything's very well-articulated here, but I do want to point out that #1 and #2 probably won't make folks too happy because when there are flash sales during the Steam holiday sales, the one-post-per-X days rule will hinder the international sellers.
Click to expand...
Agreed. They were mostly there to point out the flaws in either of them. :p

 
PKB Mac said:
I agree that the quick nature of Steam sales requires that the resellers are able to update more frequently (the one post per day sounds fine). However, the bundle key resellers probably don't need this. The way I see it, we have 3-4 options:

1. Change the thread in question to one post per day (this could work, but might create a flood of posts from folks reselling bundle keys)

2. Change the thread in question to one post per day for foreign resellers (Kruguzor, Bernardo, and the like) and one post per three days for bundle resellers (this could work, but creates difficulties in enforcement/moderation, and more work for mods)

3. Split the threads into two separate threads, creating separate threads for bundle keys and foreign re-sellers (this might be the best choice, reasons detailed below)

4. Leave everything as it is (for obvious reasons, not the best choice)

I tend to favor creating two separate threads. These threads could have separate rules (one post per three days for the bundle thread, one per day for the Steam reseller thread), and alleviate problems from a moderation standpoint. The goal of all of this is to make it easier for people to find what they're looking for; for buyers to find sellers, and sellers to find buyers. At this point, there are countless bundles, and I do agree that the countless re-posts from some of them, or even daily re-posts were getting out of hand. Their stock generally doesn't change that often. That's a problem that needs to be addressed, as it gets in the way of people connecting with each other for sales and trades. However, the current enforcement of the rules ALSO gets in the way of people connecting with each other for sales and trades.

The nature of the deals on Steam is time-sensitive, and requires a different set of rules. As mentioned previously, the nature of bundles is not time-sensitive, and could easily be considered more similar to the console trading threads. As the Steam deals are more time-sensitive, they should be treated differently as well. Creating separate rules for users in the same thread could be problematic, and a nightmare to moderate. However, two separate threads makes the whole thing much easier.

As an added benefit, there are few enough Foreign Steam resellers that they could probably all fit on the first page of the thread, and update accordingly, with the various price-checks that occur moving to PM's. This would also make checking the thread easier for buyers, and give added visibility to the sellers. Furthermore, most of us on here know when a key has been bundled, or when we are looking for leftovers vs. looking for current sales, so a separate thread for the bundles makes even more sense. I know other people have suggested going Jake's route and creating private threads, which other users immediately complained about checking so many threads for. This solution seems to be the happy middle-ground.

EDIT: If we were to make a new thread, it could theoretically be possible to require a mod's approval to a new post (only on the foreign re-seller thread; the bundle thread stays as it is). This way, the bundle keys keep to one thread, price-checks and buys keep to PM's, and the post count stays low. With the small handful of re-sellers, they could ideally stay on one page, with everyone getting the same visibility, and just update the previous post (helpful during seasonal sales, too). Just a thought.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I'm sure there are plenty of problems with my approach, but we're here to discuss, right? ;) Thanks for listening to my two cents.

DOUBLE EDIT: Ninja'd by Warreni ;)
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think splitting the thread is best. If I make it one post every day for foreign resellers, but not for the bundle key sellers. I assume they won't be happy about their trade lists getting buried even faster.

I don't have permission to split the thread so the best I could do temporarily... Is to allow 1 post per day for everyone but let you guys handle reporting the CAGs that are abusing it. Would that be okay?

 
htz said:
Yeah, I think splitting the thread is best. If I make it one post every day for foreign resellers, but not for the bundle key sellers. I assume they won't be happy about their trade lists getting buried even faster.

I don't have permission to split the thread so the best I could do temporarily... Is to allow 1 post per day for everyone but let you guys handle reporting the CAGs that are abusing it. Would that be okay?
Click to expand...
I think that should work as a stopgap measure. I believe there are enough people who would be happy to report any bad actors that this would be workable.

 
htz said:
Yeah, I think splitting the thread is best. If I make it one post every day for foreign resellers, but not for the bundle key sellers. I assume they won't be happy about their trade lists getting buried even faster.

I don't have permission to split the thread so the best I could do temporarily... Is to allow 1 post per day for everyone but let you guys handle reporting the CAGs that are abusing it. Would that be okay?
Click to expand...
nice fair mod here :bow: that seem a interesting idea!

 
htz said:
Yeah, I think splitting the thread is best. If I make it one post every day for foreign resellers, but not for the bundle key sellers. I assume they won't be happy about their trade lists getting buried even faster.

I don't have permission to split the thread so the best I could do temporarily... Is to allow 1 post per day for everyone but let you guys handle reporting the CAGs that are abusing it. Would that be okay?
Click to expand...
Sounds good. Hopefully, we don't have too many violators, and don't create too much trouble for you during the stopgap. Thanks for taking the time to read the thread, and respond quickly. If there's any way that we can help lighten the workload of this whole process, I'm sure any of us would be happy to help. Let us know if you need anything.

 
PKB Mac said:
Sounds good. Hopefully, we don't have too many violators, and don't create too much trouble for you during the stopgap. Thanks for taking the time to read the thread, and respond quickly. If there's any way that we can help lighten the workload of this whole process, I'm sure any of us would be happy to help. Let us know if you need anything.
Click to expand...
I will go ahead and change the title for that thread. Thanks for the feedback and working this out with me.

 
I don't really have any more valid points to post but I would like to throw a small post here in support of the 1 post per day for the resellers. Thanks htz and the rest of you from the CAG community who have taken the time to work on this.

 
Thanks, htz - and everyone else. Excellent discussion and quick, viable solution. I look forward to the thread eventually being split.

 
retro_mushroom_1up_3.png


To all who were involved in this, you deserve this :D

 
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