People sepculating that the PS3 will be priced in the 299-340 range are dead wrong.

Kastides

Banned
Let's examine the situation from a financial POV.

The cost of one unit out the door comes to $500. This means if the PS3 is priced at 299 they will be losing $200 per unit sold. Say Sony sells 30 Million units during the launch period. 30M*$200= DEEP ASS IN RED for a already financially troubled company. There is no way that Sony could afford to a take hit of more than a $100 a unit. Even a $100 a unit loss is pushing it for this cheapass company.

I trust the economic side of science over the leak sources and rumors.

Take it to the Bank people I am right.
 
[quote name='Kastides']Let's examine the situation from a financial POV.

The cost of one unit out the door comes to $500. This means if the PS3 is priced at 299 they will be losing $200 per unit sold. Say Sony sells 30 Million units during the launch period. 30M*$200= DEEP ASS IN RED for a already financially troubled company. There is no way that Sony could afford to a take hit of more than a $100 a unit. Even a $100 a unit loss is pushing it for this cheapass company.

I trust the economic side of science over the leak sources and rumors.

Take it to the Bank people I am right.[/QUOTE]

1.) This should definitely, definitely NOT be in this forum.

As a CAG, your cheapness probably spreads to other facets of your life, beyond video games.
Talk about ways you save money or anything else you wish, as long as its NOT GAMING RELATED.

2.) Microsoft was reportedly taking a loss of $125 per Xbox sold. Sony doesn't have the same resources, but it has been done before.

3.) I've never seen this figure of $500 for the production of one PS3 before. Where did this come from?

4.) If the system launches for that much money, it's not going to sell well. At all. This too has happened before - look at the home version of the Neo-Geo.

In all honesty, I don't think you know what you're talking about.
 
1. I could provide you the links from reputable finanicial companies such as Merrill Lynch but i really dont feel like it.

2. Sony is in 60 BILLION In Debt... Thank their PC division

3. MSoft is RICH beyond belief.

4. I only spit the truth.
 
[quote name='Kastides']
4. I only spit the truth.[/QUOTE]
You are biased, Mr. Truthbearer. You're thread in the XBox forum shows that.
 
[quote name='praystation']60 billion in debt? Where did u get that number? Show your source pleaseee[/QUOTE]

He can't, because he pulled that out of his ass.

No company would be still around with even a 1 Billion debt ratio let alone 60 Billion! The guy is one of the bigger morons iv'e come across..
 
[quote name='Deadpool']No company would be still around with even a 1 Billion debt ratio let alone 60 Billion! The guy is one of the bigger morons iv'e come across..[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but you're wrong. Sony is a big company, more than big enough to have billions in debt. Sony was, up until quite recently, over $60 billion in debt. In order to try to reorganize things and turn the situation around, they split off some of their divisions, so now the 'main' Sony has about $7 billion in debt (the other divisions took on most of the debt.)

If you don't believe this, here's Sony's financial statements.
 
[quote name='Moxio']Ugh these facts hurt my brain. :cry:[/QUOTE]


Funny, I saw very few facts... just a bunch of stipulation and pointless bickering between wannabe executives.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']and another thing. I didnt realize people were speculating that it would be as low as 299-349. I really thought the bidding started at 399.[/QUOTE]


The Saturn was originally $399 and I think it would have sold well if it had as much hype as the PS3 does. I think they can and will sell the PS3 for $399. Count me out though as I have classes to pay for.
 
[quote name='Drocket']Sorry, but you're wrong. Sony is a big company, more than big enough to have billions in debt. Sony was, up until quite recently, over $60 billion in debt. In order to try to reorganize things and turn the situation around, they split off some of their divisions, so now the 'main' Sony has about $7 billion in debt (the other divisions took on most of the debt.)

If you don't believe this, here's Sony's financial statements.[/QUOTE]'
You still have a false sense of logic (to a certain degree, but I can see your point). Sony still owns and operates all its other branches and divisions. Therefore the company as a whole is still accountable for its dept (that I'm sure is well over the 7 billion dollar range). Its somewhat of a sugarcoat to say that the "main" sony is only 7 billion in debt, when the company as a whole is still in the red. People act as if 7 billion is a small amount of debt to have (thats more then what Bill Gates is worth). Thats enough to crush a lot of companies (but none on par with sony, hell sears is still around and thats been in the red for the better part of a decade). If sony continuously operates under those conditions they could go under, or be forced to merge with another company. Also sony does have well over 7 billion dollars in assets (they have like 69 billion dollars worth of assets), if need be they could always sell some off to get out of the red. At the end of the day sony is most likely here to stay, I could only see them shaking in their boots if their debt reached the 100 billion range (if that happened I could also see them getting government assistance) .
 
[quote name='Gothic_Walrus']
4.) If the system launches for that much money, it's not going to sell well. At all. This too has happened before - look at the home version of the Neo-Geo.

In all honesty, I don't think you know what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]
You forgot to add in the fact that the Neo-Geo's games costed in the several hundred dollars to buy. They were damn pricey thats what killed it.
 
[quote name='Sk']'You still have a false sense of logic (to a certain degree, but I can see your point). Sony still owns and operates all its other branches and divisions. Therefore the company as a whole is still accountable for its dept (that I'm sure is well over the 7 billion dollar range). Its somewhat of a sugarcoat to say that the "main" sony is only 7 billion in debt, when the company as a whole is still in the red.[/quote]
This is a pretty complicated subject, deliberately so because Sony wants to hide as many of its problems as it can. Its not completely true that Sony is responsible for the entire debt, but at the same time its not completely true that Sony ISN'T respsonsible for the entire debt. Its sort of in the netherworld in between those two extremes, and where exactly in between will only be decided after many, many years of litigation if/when one of Sony's divisions goes belly-up. Most likely the remaining branches of Sony would wind up having to only partially repay the debt of the bancrupt branch, which is a good portion of the reason that they split themselves up. Corporate financing, how fun you are...

People act as if 7 billion is a small amount of debt to have (thats more then what Bill Gates is worth). Thats enough to crush a lot of companies (but none on par with sony, hell sears is still around and thats been in the red for the better part of a decade). If sony continuously operates under those conditions they could go under, or be forced to merge with another company. Also sony does have well over 7 billion dollars in assets (they have like 69 billion dollars worth of assets), if need be they could always sell some off to get out of the red. At the end of the day sony is most likely here to stay, I could only see them shaking in their boots if their debt reached the 100 billion range (if that happened I could also see them getting government assistance) .
$7B is a lot of money, but considering the size of Sony, not back-breaking. Virtually all companies carry some debt (Microsoft being the big exception.) Ultimately, there's 2 factors that are all that matters in terms of whether Sony goes belly-up or not: 1), whether the debt is large than their assets (currently not true), and 2) whether they can still make a profit.
 
^I brought up many of your points in my post. I do agree with you to a certain degree (I also never said you were 100% wrong). And yes you are right corporate financing is crazy.
 
[quote name='Kastides']1. I could provide you the links from reputable finanicial companies such as Merrill Lynch but i really dont feel like it.

2. Sony is in 60 BILLION In Debt... Thank their PC division

3. MSoft is RICH beyond belief.

4. I only spit the truth.[/QUOTE]



Sony... in debt...? I don't believe it.
 
After doing some research......

"March '04 is $64 Billion, but their total assets as a company is valued at $87 Billion."

So it really doesn't matter.
 
This thread still lives on even after people were accusing me of spreading false rumors... ??? Thanks people.

I aim to inform.
 
[quote name='Kastides']This thread still lives on even after people were accusing me of spreading false rumors... ??? Thanks people.

I aim to inform.[/QUOTE]

Informers typically post links and cite sources.;)
 
[quote name='dmpolska']After doing some research......

"March '04 is $64 Billion, but their total assets as a company is valued at $87 Billion."

So it really doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]

Which is EXACTLY why they are not in debt.
 
People who do not understand financial statements and corporate finance should not pretend to understand such topics. And by the way, the word debt does not hold the same meaning in a corporation as it does in a everyday situation. So please let's not talk about any of the economics of these price speculations.
 
[quote name='Kastides']Let's examine the situation from a financial POV.

The cost of one unit out the door comes to $500. This means if the PS3 is priced at 299 they will be losing $200 per unit sold. Say Sony sells 30 Million units during the launch period. 30M*$200= DEEP ASS IN RED for a already financially troubled company. There is no way that Sony could afford to a take hit of more than a $100 a unit. Even a $100 a unit loss is pushing it for this cheapass company.

I trust the economic side of science over the leak sources and rumors.

Take it to the Bank people I am right.[/QUOTE]

If you are sooooo smart why don't you give us the price of the PS3, and please back it up with the mounds and mounds of proof that you propose that you are privy to.





...While you are at it please tell me the winning Florida lotto numbers
 
[quote name='dmpolska']After doing some research......

"March '04 is $64 Billion, but their total assets as a company is valued at $87 Billion."

So it really doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]

In terms of whether or not Sony is going to go bankrupt and/or out of business, it doesn't matter. In terms of how Sony is going to operate their business, you better bet its going to matter. Sony is carrying a whole lot of debt right now and doesn't have much wiggle room left for losing money. They simply can't afford to lose money on console sales in order to build market share (whereas Microsoft has money to burn...)
 
[quote name='sying']If you are sooooo smart why don't you give us the price of the PS3, and please back it up with the mounds and mounds of proof that you propose that you are privy to.

...While you are at it please tell me the winning Florida lotto numbers[/QUOTE]
Its possible to make a rough estimate of the cost to manufacture the PS3 (or any other system) once you know the components that are going to go into it. There's nothing magical about that: its simply a matter of knowing the market and the going costs of electrical equipment.
 
Your forgeting one fact, the games. Consoles ALWAYS loose money when they first realease, if they market the a console at a good price and in this case being sony, knowing damn well it will sell like hot cakes, they will make it up with software sales and a dedicated consumer base. Gaining a big consumer base pays off more than trying to make back penny for penny what you spent in production. Money in console making isn't black and white as you make it seem, you also have to take into account what your competition is selling there consoles at, what will look better to buy first an xbox 360 at 299.99 or a PS3 at 499.99, I sure as hell wouldn't buy it if was 500 dollars. But you are right on one thing, a sepculation is nothing but sepculation no one knows what there going to be selling it at, so your topic and my reply are just wasted keystrokes.
 
[quote name='sisco1986']Your forgeting one fact, the games. Consoles ALWAYS loose money when they first realease[/quote]
Except Nintendo, who knows how to make an efficient game system (but not how to market one...)

if they market the a console at a good price and in this case being sony, knowing damn well it will sell like hot cakes, they will make it up with software sales and a dedicated consumer base.
That's the theory, at least. Whether or not it works is very much open to question. Microsoft lost money hand-over-fist with the release of the XBox, and all they managed was a rough tie with Nintendo for a distance second place. That's not really the question, though: even if it does make sense in the long-term to lose money on console sales, it doesn't mean that Sony is going to be able to afford it in the short-term. To put it in human terms, their credit cards are nearly maxed - they simply _can't_ go much further into debt. They make make money in the long-term doing so, but they may not make it to the long-term with that plan.

Its questionable whether Sony would really even want to get into a price war with Microsoft: Microsoft simply has deeper pockets and will win the spending war. Sony needs to compete with its other attributes, not one in which they're guaranteed to lose.
 
[quote name='Sk']You forgot to add in the fact that the Neo-Geo's games costed in the several hundred dollars to buy. They were damn pricey thats what killed it.[/QUOTE]
And that N64 third party games were $100 when the system first came out, and quite a few sold very well. No one really knows what will happen and what people will pay, until it has already happened. Yes, the Neo Geo failed. The system was $600 and the games were $100-200, but video games, in general were still considered toys back then. It was not the $10 billion business it is today. Will ps3 outsell xbox360 if it comes out at $500-600 or even more. Most likely no. Will they sell enough to be profitable and make continued marketing of the system and games worthwhile? Guess we'll see, but I would say yes. They are making and marketing it as a gaming COMPUTER, not a gaming console. They are VERY adament in this. That to me says they are planning on pricing it closer to PCs instead of the ps2. The PSP is not a very good system when you get right down to it (not durable, very short battery life, etc.), has 2 games worth playing (at least in the US) and is way overpriced. Yet somehow UMD movies have become one of the hottest things around. I don't think anyone thought the PSP sales would be driven by movies, not games. The point is sony has the name that people know (Playstation has become the new Nintendo-i.e. people that don't know what the hell they are talking about refer to all video games as such) and you never know what the hell is going to happen. Minidisk failed outright and DVD became HUGE. It will be really sad if both HD-DVD and Bluray fail, and UMD becomes the next big format. Guess we'll see. And for the record, I am a supporter of the best tech, not a company, whether that is TurboGrafx, MegaLD, 3DO or Xbox. The best system has NEVER won a console war. This generation is the closest it has been since the 16bit era. So sony is cripled by history, if nothing else.
 
[quote name='mietha']And that N64 third party games were $100 when the system first came out, and quite a few sold very well. No one really knows what will happen and what people will pay, until it has already happened. Yes, the Neo Geo failed. The system was $600 and the games were $100-200, but video games, in general were still considered toys back then. It was not the $10 billion business it is today. Will ps3 outsell xbox360 if it comes out at $500-600 or even more. Most likely no. Will they sell enough to be profitable and make continued marketing of the system and games worthwhile? Guess we'll see, but I would say yes. They are making and marketing it as a gaming COMPUTER, not a gaming console. They are VERY adament in this. That to me says they are planning on pricing it closer to PCs instead of the ps2. The PSP is not a very good system when you get right down to it (not durable, very short battery life, etc.), has 2 games worth playing (at least in the US) and is way overpriced. Yet somehow UMD movies have become one of the hottest things around. I don't think anyone thought the PSP sales would be driven by movies, not games. The point is sony has the name that people know (Playstation has become the new Nintendo-i.e. people that don't know what the hell they are talking about refer to all video games as such) and you never know what the hell is going to happen. Minidisk failed outright and DVD became HUGE. It will be really sad if both HD-DVD and Bluray fail, and UMD becomes the next big format. Guess we'll see. And for the record, I am a supporter of the best tech, not a company, whether that is TurboGrafx, MegaLD, 3DO or Xbox. The best system has NEVER won a console war. This generation is the closest it has been since the 16bit era. So sony is cripled by history, if nothing else.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure N64 games were $100? I remember a few being $60-$70 but I really don't remember a single game being $100.
 
[quote name='Gothic_Walrus']1.) This should definitely, definitely NOT be in this forum.
2.) Microsoft was reportedly taking a loss of $125 per Xbox sold. Sony doesn't have the same resources, but it has been done before.
[/QUOTE]


Trust me sony has the resources. They have more then they Playstation. Which I am sure you knew. Sony is the M$ of electronics.
 
[quote name='Graystone']Trust me sony has the resources. They have more then they Playstation. Which I am sure you knew. Sony is the M$ of electronics.[/QUOTE]
Sony also has a massive debt, which you would know if you read before posting. Meanwhile, at Microsoft, employees are regularly crushed to death when the piles of money they can't figure out what to do with collapse. Ok, I exaggerating there a bit, but not by that much. My point is that at this point in time, Microsoft is in much better position than Sony, cash-wise. Losing money on console systems is something Sony would have to approach carefully because they're already in a bad position. For Microsoft, losing money would be a convenient way of getting rid of a fire hazzard.
 
Don't forget that Microsoft's entertainment division (which includes Xbox) has always been in the red. Yet, Microsoft is doing fine. I don't see Sony going under anytime soon but I do see the PS3 selling for more than the Xbox 360 and still being a major competitor. The "playstation" name is still a leading brand name and that alone will guarantee they can sell it for more than an Xbox 360.
 
[quote name='Graystone']Trust me sony has the resources. They have more then they Playstation. Which I am sure you knew. Sony is the M$ of electronics.[/QUOTE]

!You're grammur make brain hurt!

Because it invests in music, not to mention it's failing PC business, Sony is not in a great financial position.

Microsoft however, through ridiculous government-granted patents for everyday technology and a monopolistic hold on the Op Sys business, has basically been granted the right to print American money.
 
I would be very surprised if it launched for under $399. I would not be surprised to see it launch for even more, but I doubt it.

Don't forget about the huge licensing fees for the controllers... The Australians invented the boomerang long before Sony ever did.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Don't forget about the huge licensing fees for the controllers... The Australians invented the boomerang long before Sony ever did.[/QUOTE]

:lol:
 
[quote name='Graystone']Trust me sony has the resources. They have more then they Playstation. Which I am sure you knew. Sony is the M$ of electronics.[/QUOTE]

No they are not. Sony Computer Entertainment has been one of the only divisions to turn a profit for the company in a while. Their computer division isn't doing so hot at the moment and, although I don't know its current state, Sony television sets didn't sell particularly well when they were primarily producing the WEGA series of televisions.
 
LOL at all you fucking retarded fanboys responging to this lame assed flamebait topic.

Bitch 1: Sony sucks!
Bitch 2: No it doesn't!
Bitch 3: t3h b00merang!

GO fuck YOURSELVES!

This isn't gamefaqs, motherfuckers!
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']LOL at all you fucking retarded fanboys responging to this lame assed flamebait topic.

Bitch 1: Sony sucks!
Bitch 2: No it doesn't!
Bitch 3: t3h b00merang!

GO fuck YOURSELVES!

This isn't gamefaqs, motherfuckers![/QUOTE]

I actually agree with you and what is with all these losers correcting grammar? I bet they all want to be English teachers with they get lives.
 
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