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MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) Thread: UFC/Strikeforce


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#5341 cgarb84

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:33 PM

I guess I'm alone but I thought Henderson won the fight and fairly convincingly too. He was more agressive (this is debatable but IMO he was more aggressive), did more damage (by a lot), and was the only person who nearly finished the fight twice. I just feel like between this fight and the Diaz/Condit fight something is a little off with how I perceive fights vs how others do. I weigh damage done to an opponent very heavily. Condit beat up Diaz, busted his face up but yet what...that means nothing to most people? Last night after 25 minutes Henderson looks like he just took a shower while Edgar looked like he got beat the F up for 25 minutes. I mean if all that matters is purely numbers then I don't know what the hell is going on.... this isn't baseball. Numbers don't always tell the story. Damage inflicted should be a top priority in judging a fight IMO.
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#5342 The Great Muta

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:51 PM

I dig Joe Lauzon. And that quote is pretty funny. He also mentioned on Facebook that he should have blocked the kick. Definitely safe to assume he thought Anthony Pettis threw it to the body. And only someone like Frank Edgar or Mark Hunt has the cranial fortitude to take a knockout shot and continue to fight. Duke Roufus has done good work with Pettis.

Speaking of Pettis, I won't get hyped for some crazy sequel to his off-cage head kick, but I think his improved kickboxing will be a prominent feature in the rematch with Ben Henderson. Pettis looked next-level and super-crisp against Lauzon.

Damage is not a factor in the 10-Point Must System. Whether it should be is a debate in itself. I think Nick Lembo hit it on the head when he said that the 10-Point Must System is fine, and that no matter what system you use to score fights it'll be scrutinized to death. And, in regards to Diaz-Condit, if we were to consider damage, Nick Diaz still would have lost. Diaz did very little damage to Carlos Condit in the fight.

And attention should be given to Yoshihiro Akiyama. Impressive 170 debut. He outpowered Jake Shields, who I thought would have a strength advantage. I had the fight 29-28 Akiyama. I think 30-27 Shields is just crazy. This goes back to the 10-Point Must System. Clean punching, ring generalship, and defense went to Akiyama. Effective aggression is the only area Shields had presence in the first two rounds.

#5343 n8rockerasu

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:16 PM

I guess I'm alone but I thought Henderson won the fight and fairly convincingly too. He was more agressive (this is debatable but IMO he was more aggressive), did more damage (by a lot), and was the only person who nearly finished the fight twice. I just feel like between this fight and the Diaz/Condit fight something is a little off with how I perceive fights vs how others do. I weigh damage done to an opponent very heavily. Condit beat up Diaz, busted his face up but yet what...that means nothing to most people? Last night after 25 minutes Henderson looks like he just took a shower while Edgar looked like he got beat the F up for 25 minutes. I mean if all that matters is purely numbers then I don't know what the hell is going on.... this isn't baseball. Numbers don't always tell the story. Damage inflicted should be a top priority in judging a fight IMO.


I agree (though I think most in here felt Condit deserved to win), but for Edgar/Henderson, it's hard for me to really observe "damage done" without beginning to question if it's even a fair fight in terms of size. Obviously, that's something Edgar has to deal with if he wants to continue to fight at 55. But I'm just not really convinced that Henderson was "better" in that fight. When Edgar landed more strikes and had many more takedowns, you have to question WHY he did less damage...and I really feel like it's just because he was fighting a guy way too big for him.

As I said, I really don't know what Frankie could have done differently (other than not be so aggressive and get caught with the upkick). In terms of a "real fight", I'd definitely say Henderson won, as had it continued, I think he would have put Frankie away eventually. But in terms of a sporting event with time limits and a points system, I don't think it's fair to just look at damage done. If anything, Edgar withstood all that damage and STILL outstruck and outwrestled Henderson.

I was impressed that Edgar was even able to finish the fight with basically one eye and a broken nose. Ultimately, I think he should move down to 45 though. It's just the way the sport works. You have guys who walk around at 215lbs who cut to 185lbs to fight. It's insane! I admire Frankie for fighting at his normal weight, but it's just asking too much to think he can consistently dominate bigger opponents.


And attention should be given to Yoshihiro Akiyama. Impressive 170 debut. He outpowered Jake Shields, who I thought would have a strength advantage. I had the fight 29-28 Akiyama. I think 30-27 Shields is just crazy. This goes back to the 10-Point Must System. Clean punching, ring generalship, and defense went to Akiyama. Effective aggression is the only area Shields had presence in the first two rounds.


Agree with this 100%. I don't know how any judge could give the 1st round to Shields when he did NOTHING but have takedowns stuffed and get taken down himself. Jake Shields has to be one of the most one dimensional fighters in MMA. I almost think he's more one dimensional than Kimbo Slice, lol. For a guy who's such a bad ass wrestler, I can't remember the last time he was actually able to power through somebody and take then down. It seems like most of his takedowns come from latching on, dry humping the shit out of someone's leg, and then awkwardly falling to the mat and pulling them down with him.

Honestly, what I felt that the judging in Japan showed is how little they value takedowns. Akiyama had some impressive takedowns and really controlled Shields most of the fight. And then with Edgar, his 7 takedowns must have counted for nothing if two judges thought he only managed to win one round the entire fight. That was at least my take on the questionable scoring.

Edited by n8rockerasu, 26 February 2012 - 09:27 PM.


#5344 The Great Muta

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:34 AM

I hope this doesn't deviate a solid discussion. Just had to post it, tho. Probably my feel-good story of the day.

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#5345 Thekrakrabbit

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:40 AM

I guess I'm alone but I thought Henderson won the fight and fairly convincingly too. He was more agressive (this is debatable but IMO he was more aggressive), did more damage (by a lot), and was the only person who nearly finished the fight twice. I just feel like between this fight and the Diaz/Condit fight something is a little off with how I perceive fights vs how others do. I weigh damage done to an opponent very heavily. Condit beat up Diaz, busted his face up but yet what...that means nothing to most people? Last night after 25 minutes Henderson looks like he just took a shower while Edgar looked like he got beat the F up for 25 minutes. I mean if all that matters is purely numbers then I don't know what the hell is going on.... this isn't baseball. Numbers don't always tell the story. Damage inflicted should be a top priority in judging a fight IMO.


That is ridiculous, I'm sorry. Damage being done is the primary thing when you judge fights? Do you realize how big of an advantage that gives to fighters with thick skin that don't get cut? Frankie has a weak face that swells and cuts, so I guess he should lose every fight.

Damage means nothing because it is completely visual, nothing more. If I smacked you in the face for 20 minutes and put you on your back 7 times but you landed one kick and cut my nose, you win? Nonsense

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#5346 benjamouth

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:10 AM

That is ridiculous, I'm sorry. Damage being done is the primary thing when you judge fights? Do you realize how big of an advantage that gives to fighters with thick skin that don't get cut? Frankie has a weak face that swells and cuts, so I guess he should lose every fight.

Damage means nothing because it is completely visual, nothing more. If I smacked you in the face for 20 minutes and put you on your back 7 times but you landed one kick and cut my nose, you win? Nonsense


You're right but the judges are going to be influenced by the fact one guy looks like he's been through a mangle and the other like he's been through a workout at the gym, even if it's sub-consciously.

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#5347 cgarb84

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 02:07 AM

Damage means nothing because it is completely visual, nothing more.


Wtf does that mean? EVERYTHING in a fight is visual that statement makes no sense to me. Should throwing 10 jabs with little power to them really count for more than 1 power shot that knocks a guy down or makes his eye swell shut? I know not everybody shows damage the same but if you get tagged repeatedly with power shots to the face you show it eventually.....everyone does. Swelling on the face is different than cuts, some people (Edgar, Marcus Davis, ect) get cut very easily I understand that. But damage inflicted has got to count for something. Otherwise why doesn't the UFC just switch to an amateur boxing like situation where we give everyone gear with sensors and just count clean registered hits, tally up the scores at the end and the highest score wins? The notion that damage means NOTHING is so against everything that FIGHTING stands for. I mean lets not forget that this sport still boils down to two humans squaring off 1-on-1 in a FIGHT. How can damage have no effect on how a FIGHT is scored?

In that fight last night Edgar took down Benson 7 times I think. The problem is with those takedowns he did next to nothing to either damage Benson or try to finish him. Henderson almost finished the fight twice, the guillotine and the upkick were without a doubt the two biggest moments in the fight with one guy opposing his will on the other while almost finishing. How the hell does a +5 in takedowns for Frankie surpass the 2 near finishes that Henderson had?

I just think that Henderson was more aggressive, landed more devastating shots, had the closest submission finish, and avoided damage better than Frankie did (by a lot btw). I just fail to see how this all adds up to an Edgar win.

And the weight cut argument is horseshit too. So what if Henderson cuts like 30 pounds to make weight? He is a cardio MACHINE, if he can make weight every time (like he does) then wtf does that have to do with anything? It's not his responsibility to go up in weight if he can make 155, it's the smaller fighter's responsibility (the guy who literally cuts ZERO weight) to move down. Frankie will be a beast at 145, him and Aldo has FOTY written all over it. If huge guys like Henderson, Jon Jones, Forrest Griffin ect. can make weight then good for them. They shouldn't be penalized in fights for doing more damage because they weigh more than their opponents, that is BS.
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#5348 n8rockerasu

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 05:05 AM

I just think that Henderson was more aggressive, landed more devastating shots, had the closest submission finish, and avoided damage better than Frankie did (by a lot btw). I just fail to see how this all adds up to an Edgar win.


If we're going to call valid points "horseshit", then this has to be the biggest steaming pile. How is "avoiding damage" a skill when you're getting hit more? It just means you're bigger and stronger. Don't forget that Frankie did drop Henderson flat on his ass with one punch too. Henderson SHOWED less damage than Edgar. That's the only claim you can make.

And again, I feel this comes back to size. I agree that damage done should be ONE factor in judging the fight. But as I said, if you're setting up the fight with a points system and time limits, you can't have it both ways. Otherwise, you should say "fight until the KO". If Edgar's only chance of beating a guy like Henderson is bloodying him up and knocking him out, then it's a pointless fight.

And the weight cut argument is horseshit too. So what if Henderson cuts like 30 pounds to make weight? He is a cardio MACHINE, if he can make weight every time (like he does) then wtf does that have to do with anything? It's not his responsibility to go up in weight if he can make 155, it's the smaller fighter's responsibility (the guy who literally cuts ZERO weight) to move down. Frankie will be a beast at 145, him and Aldo has FOTY written all over it. If huge guys like Henderson, Jon Jones, Forrest Griffin ect. can make weight then good for them. They shouldn't be penalized in fights for doing more damage because they weigh more than their opponents, that is BS.


I don't see how it's penalizing him by not getting caught up in "ooh! look how bloody the other guy is!" If anything, Frankie is being penalized and judged more harshly for being the smaller fighter. I already said that Frankie would be better suited at 45. I just said that it sucks that you basically HAVE to cut (and sometimes cutting one weight class STILL doesn't make you the bigger fighter) in this sport anymore.

It didn't use to be that way. But as soon as somebody thought "hmm...I could get an advantage if I dehydrate myself until my body almost shuts down to make weight, and then come into the fight not even at the weight of the next division up", it...tipped the scales *ba dum ching" Obviously, if everybody agreed to not cut weight, it wouldn't be a problem because everyone would be where they shoudl be. But competition, money, and fame convince people to look for any advantage possible. Just the way it is.

#5349 Dokstarr

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 05:40 AM

I thought Benderson vs. Edgar was very very close. It was hard to tell how tight the guillotine was and Frankie looked in deep trouble after the upkick. Those have to count for something versus Edgar's higher volume. Edgar is amazing and has performed very well against the best in the world and it was a great fight. It was almost impossible to decide, but I think I would've given the nod Benderson.

For the record I had no problem with the Condit vs. Diaz decision. It has been a little while since I've seen it, but I don't remember Diaz landing much of anything the entire fight.

As for Akiyama vs. Shields. I have no problem with how it decision went down. I don't remember Akiyama landing much the entire fight versus Shields' volume. Akiyama had some a very nice throw and a leg sweep but wasn't able to do a single thing with them. If Akiyama landed right into side control and worked something for a while then that would be a whole different story. Jake was immediately right back up. This is also coming from someone who competed in Judo on my college team for 5 years.

Rampage vs. Bader was disappointing. I like Rampage and don't mind Bader, but Rampage hasn't looked too hot so it was a little disappointing.

Was happy to see Hunt get the win. I wonder who will they will put him up against next.

Very cool to see Tim turn everything around that last round. Especially funny since it Joe and Goldie spent the first 10 min saying how this was the best Okami they have ever seen and he was better than ever.

#5350 cgarb84

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:43 PM

If we're going to call valid points "horseshit", then this has to be the biggest steaming pile. How is "avoiding damage" a skill when you're getting hit more?


Except that Henderson didn't get hit more.....he outstruck Frankie. You could see it watching it live but if not the fight metrics back it up. Henderson landed more strikes than Edgar, did more damage, came the closest to finishing the fight, and was more aggressive. He won the fight. No injustice was done here, it was the right decision and now we should all move on.

Also for the record I had Condit beating Diaz, I don't think I posted anything in here after that fight. Condit won and Diaz is a bitch, those are my feelings on that fight in a nutshell.
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#5351 Thekrakrabbit

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:23 PM

Wtf does that mean? EVERYTHING in a fight is visual that statement makes no sense to me. Should throwing 10 jabs with little power to them really count for more than 1 power shot that knocks a guy down or makes his eye swell shut? I know not everybody shows damage the same but if you get tagged repeatedly with power shots to the face you show it eventually.....everyone does. Swelling on the face is different than cuts, some people (Edgar, Marcus Davis, ect) get cut very easily I understand that. But damage inflicted has got to count for something. Otherwise why doesn't the UFC just switch to an amateur boxing like situation where we give everyone gear with sensors and just count clean registered hits, tally up the scores at the end and the highest score wins? The notion that damage means NOTHING is so against everything that FIGHTING stands for. I mean lets not forget that this sport still boils down to two humans squaring off 1-on-1 in a FIGHT. How can damage have no effect on how a FIGHT is scored?

In that fight last night Edgar took down Benson 7 times I think. The problem is with those takedowns he did next to nothing to either damage Benson or try to finish him. Henderson almost finished the fight twice, the guillotine and the upkick were without a doubt the two biggest moments in the fight with one guy opposing his will on the other while almost finishing. How the hell does a +5 in takedowns for Frankie surpass the 2 near finishes that Henderson had?

I just think that Henderson was more aggressive, landed more devastating shots, had the closest submission finish, and avoided damage better than Frankie did (by a lot btw). I just fail to see how this all adds up to an Edgar win.

And the weight cut argument is horseshit too. So what if Henderson cuts like 30 pounds to make weight? He is a cardio MACHINE, if he can make weight every time (like he does) then wtf does that have to do with anything? It's not his responsibility to go up in weight if he can make 155, it's the smaller fighter's responsibility (the guy who literally cuts ZERO weight) to move down. Frankie will be a beast at 145, him and Aldo has FOTY written all over it. If huge guys like Henderson, Jon Jones, Forrest Griffin ect. can make weight then good for them. They shouldn't be penalized in fights for doing more damage because they weigh more than their opponents, that is BS.


I think you're drinking some Bendo Kool-aid. Henderson's upkick was nice, but he wasn't close to finishing the fight and the Guillotine was tight, but it wasn't a millisecond away from forcing a tap. I like Ben Henderson, think he's a great fighter and that he put up a great fight but saying he won because he was more aggressive and managed to bust up Frankie's face is foolish.

Bendo wasn't landing hard power shots all night, Frankie's face was all swollen and busted up after one round. After two, he had a cut on his nose that happened to bleed a lot and his face just got more swollen.

I'm sure Edgar's face looks worse today, does that mean the pillow he was laying his head on beat his face in last night? Just touching Frankie's face makes him swell and bruise, whereas Henderson almost never takes facial damage. Then he could go 5 rounds with everyone on earth and win every decision just because he always looks like the fresher guy.

Except that Henderson didn't get hit more.....he outstruck Frankie. You could see it watching it live but if not the fight metrics back it up. Henderson landed more strikes than Edgar, did more damage, came the closest to finishing the fight, and was more aggressive. He won the fight. No injustice was done here, it was the right decision and now we should all move on.

Also for the record I had Condit beating Diaz, I don't think I posted anything in here after that fight. Condit won and Diaz is a bitch, those are my feelings on that fight in a nutshell.


L...O...L. "He outstruck Frankie". Really? Fightmetics don't make much sense in this fight, as you can clearly see that Edgar landed more strikes on a consistant basis. And I also would like to say that aggression (coming forward) shouldn't be the basis for winning rounds/points. I guess the Diaz brothers have never lost a decision in their life, since they all come forward and get punched in the face.

I can't understand how you have Condit beating Diaz though? You just don't like Diaz or...? Because according to your judging gude, aggression and busting the other guy's face up is the key to victory.

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#5352 zewone

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:42 PM

I agree that Ben wrecked Edgar. I had it scored 49-46 (Edgar had the first round).

Frankie "Pillow Hands" Edgar didn't put a scratch on Ben and did little with his take downs. I can't even fathom the argument that Edgar won. When Frankie said he thought he won when he couldn't even open his left eye and the rest of his face look like it went through a meat grinder while Ben looked like he had just finished a light jog, I burst out in laughter.

But, I also had Diaz beating Condit 3-2.

#5353 cgarb84

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:56 PM

I can't understand how you have Condit beating Diaz though? You just don't like Diaz or...? Because according to your judging gude, aggression and busting the other guy's face up is the key to victory.


I take aggression into consideration but only when you are actually connecting with strikes and doing damage to your opponent. Condit took very few clean shots from Diaz in that fight. Diaz was moving forward the whole time but not utilizing effective striking. Henderson was, he was constantly tagging Edgar with jabs and hard body kicks, even catching Edgar with a few real nice knees. I don't understand what the Fuck is so hard to grasp here. I mean even the majority of people on Sherdog think Henderson won the fight and we all know how much people on Sherdog love to bitch about close decisions and someone being robbed. Apparently this thread has decided to take up the shield for Edgar in this fight...I guess someone has to.

I didn't have a rooting interest in this fight but I can't help the way I saw and scored the fight. It's all opinions in here we know that. I'm just telling you what I saw and why I think Henderson won. I mean the way you guys are talking Edgar dominated Henderson in the standup...I just didn't see it that way at all.
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#5354 The Great Muta

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:00 PM

I intend to give another view to Edgar-Henderson. I hold a lot of respect for some people in the MMA press, and a few of them said they scored the fight 48-47 Edgar while watching live, but later scored the fight 49-46 Henderson.

Again, I know it's a hot talking point, but damage is not a factor in the 10-Point Must System. FightMetric's algorithm, on the other hand, takes into consideration the things that matter the most in ending a fight while referencing historial fight data of what stops fights. Also note: FightMetric's analysis is independent from the unified rules. The SRN Rewind has an incredibly informative interview with Rami Genauer, discussing the FightMetric methodology in great detail.

Nate touches on a good point for why some people feel including damage would introduce an unstable element into judging. Fighters like BJ Penn rarely take visible damage—while fighters like Fedor Emelianenko have paper-thin skin. I'm apprehensive about adding damage to judging criteria. Visible damage does not necessarily indicate the effectiveness of strikes. And it's difficult to truly know how much damage a fighter takes from, say, repeated leg kicks until they hobble. I think adding damage creates complications. For example, if we use the FightMetric system, a fighter gets credit for landing illegal groin strikes. If damage is included in a revision to judging criteria, do fighters get credit for landing illegal strikes?



Ideally, Hunt's next opponent is a Fedor rematch and Bendo makes his first defense against Melendez. Unfortunately, both ideas have a zero-percent chance of happening.

According to MiddleEasy, the winner of Korean Zombie-Poirier will fight the winner of Diaz-Miller with the winner becoming Ben Henderson's fight title defense. Interesting idea but somewhat ridiculous.



Neat promo video for the first live season of The Ultimate Fighter.

And I know it's just a hype video and should be treated as such, but if it shows how fighting has evolved, shouldn't the pugilist/boxer be a bit lower on the totem pole? I don't know about everyonne else, but I'd take a wrestler and Thai striker over a boxer any day. ;)



#5355 Magiblaze

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 09:54 PM

Man I did terrible in my picks and I had the main event 48-47 but even so felt Bendo beat Edgar worse then my scorecard would indicate.He looked fresh still even by the end looking like he came out without any scratches.

Overall went something like 5-7. So I suck :(.

I feel like it was Rampage's fight to lose more so then depending on how good Bader did.

Kongo's has been looking fragile ever since he had back surgery.Who would have ever thought 4 years ago when it looked like Mark Hunt was only fighting for paychecks would be starting to be considered one of the top heavyweights today?

#5356 Magiblaze

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:06 AM

According to MiddleEasy, the winner of Korean Zombie-Poirier will fight the winner of Diaz-Miller with the winner becoming Ben Henderson's fight title defense. Interesting idea but somewhat ridiculous.

I wouldn't listen to them.Whoever created the very likely false rumor probably doesn't even realize those are two different weight classes.Its probably down to Pettis and the winner of Miller/Diaz.Although if Miller wins I'd rather see Pettis get the next title shot.

#5357 paz9x

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:43 AM

I wouldn't listen to them.Whoever created the very likely false rumor probably doesn't even realize those are two different weight classes.Its probably down to Pettis and the winner of Miller/Diaz.Although if Miller wins I'd rather see Pettis get the next title shot.


lol no shit, im reading thinking "wtf is this, the dudes fight fw"
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#5358 Kuroi Kaze

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:47 AM

i had it edgar winning for the record, so did most of the table i was with. we can't hear joe's commentary at all so it's a pretty unbiased estimate. especially considering the guys i was with bet money on bendo. ah well that's what happens at lighter weights when people can't finish as often.

if frankie doesn't get an immediate rematch though that is complete shit. he had to give everyone else their chance.

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#5359 Magiblaze

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 01:04 AM

I went with Bendo, he outlanded Edgar and did a lot more damage with his strikes.Even though I had scored it close it really felt like he put an ass whippin on Edgar.It must suck for Edgar though.To have to do rematches and it take up his last 4 fights then not getting one himself.

#5360 The Great Muta

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 01:51 AM

I think MiddleEasy meant Poirier-Korean Zombie to be the number one contender for Jose Aldo. Most of those dudes are close with Nick Diaz. And we know Diaz's favorite recreational hobby. ;)

Real talk: I'm hating the "Edgar MUST drop to 145 'cause he lost the title" talk. Joe Rogan needs to quit spewing his agenda in his postfight interviews. I'm not one to generalize—but, anyone asking for Edgar to drop to 145 does not have his best interests in mind.

FX revealed the lightweight cast for The Ultimate Fighter Live.

Spoiler


Gotta love the new Fight Finder.

#5361 Thekrakrabbit

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 03:05 AM

I agree that Ben wrecked Edgar. I had it scored 49-46 (Edgar had the first round).

Frankie "Pillow Hands" Edgar didn't put a scratch on Ben and did little with his take downs. I can't even fathom the argument that Edgar won. When Frankie said he thought he won when he couldn't even open his left eye and the rest of his face look like it went through a meat grinder while Ben looked like he had just finished a light jog, I burst out in laughter.

But, I also had Diaz beating Condit 3-2.


You had Diaz winning so clearly you cannot judge a fight to save your life. I almost wouldn't trust your opinion if you told me Edgar won his second fight with BJ Penn, because clearly you like to score fights terribly.

I take aggression into consideration but only when you are actually connecting with strikes and doing damage to your opponent. Condit took very few clean shots from Diaz in that fight. Diaz was moving forward the whole time but not utilizing effective striking. Henderson was, he was constantly tagging Edgar with jabs and hard body kicks, even catching Edgar with a few real nice knees. I don't understand what the Fuck is so hard to grasp here. I mean even the majority of people on Sherdog think Henderson won the fight and we all know how much people on Sherdog love to bitch about close decisions and someone being robbed. Apparently this thread has decided to take up the shield for Edgar in this fight...I guess someone has to.

I didn't have a rooting interest in this fight but I can't help the way I saw and scored the fight. It's all opinions in here we know that. I'm just telling you what I saw and why I think Henderson won. I mean the way you guys are talking Edgar dominated Henderson in the standup...I just didn't see it that way at all.


The majority of people on Sherdog. Hahaha, a ton of people scored the Bisping/Sonnen fight in favor of BISPING as well. And a surprising amount of people had Diaz beating Condit based off his aggression too. Sherdog has a ton of fools who cannot score fights on there. Some can, but that's not what we're talking about here.

We can have a difference of opinion, it's all good here, but you'll never convince me that Ben Henderson outstruck Frankie Edgar. It didn't happen, there's a thing called "boxing" and getting "outboxed" and that's what Edgar did (boxing) and Henderson did (got outboxed).

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#5362 n8rockerasu

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 04:10 AM

if frankie doesn't get an immediate rematch though that is complete shit. he had to give everyone else their chance.


It must suck for Edgar though.To have to do rematches and it take up his last 4 fights then not getting one himself.


I hope everybody can at least agree with this. Regardless of how you felt the fight went, it's really crappy to make the guy fight nothing but immediate rematches since winning the belt, and then the second he loses it, say "ok, you're done...see ya". It just gives me the feeling that nobody ever wanted Frankie Edgar to be champion and have been trying to erase it for two years now.

#5363 Thekrakrabbit

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 04:28 AM

Frankie has been fighting rematches since 2009, and not giving him one is pretty sick. Duke Roufus said that Pettis has always been confirmed to them as the next challenger, so I doubt Edgar is getting his rematch.

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#5364 Magiblaze

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 03:09 PM

Real talk: I'm hating the "Edgar MUST drop to 145 'cause he lost the title" talk. Joe Rogan needs to quit spewing his agenda in his postfight interviews. I'm not one to generalize—but, anyone asking for Edgar to drop to 145 does not have his best interests in mind.

I'm with you on this one.He just lost his belt but hes still one of the best at 155 and theres plenty of other good matches for him.Right now I wouldn't mind seeing him face Donald Cerrone next or Guida.Wouldn't mind seeing Diaz fight him either if he loses to Miller.

#5365 Grave_Addiction

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 04:33 PM

I agree that Ben wrecked Edgar. I had it scored 49-46 (Edgar had the first round).

Frankie "Pillow Hands" Edgar didn't put a scratch on Ben and did little with his take downs. I can't even fathom the argument that Edgar won. When Frankie said he thought he won when he couldn't even open his left eye and the rest of his face look like it went through a meat grinder while Ben looked like he had just finished a light jog, I burst out in laughter.

But, I also had Diaz beating Condit 3-2.


I had been drinking quite a bit, so I didn't score it round by round, but I thought Henderson beat Frankie pretty soundly. Also, going into the fight, I was rooting for Edgar, but was really surprised by how much bigger Henderson looked. He had to have at least 15-20 pounds on Frankie.

The fact that Henderson almost finished Edgar a couple times and did far more damage outweighed the striking comparison, in my opinion.

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#5366 zewone

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 04:49 PM

The size difference was crazy.

#5367 n8rockerasu

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 05:24 PM

The fact that Henderson almost finished Edgar a couple times and did far more damage outweighed the striking comparison, in my opinion.


The problem with this is that's not how a 10 point must system works. To be honest, even in the round where Henderson landed the upkick, I still thought Frankie won that round. The upkick came with like 20 seconds left in the round, and I didn't think that was enough to steal it. I might feel differently if I watched it again, but watching it live, that's how I felt.

#5368 Ced

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:18 PM

The problem with this is that's not how a 10 point must system works. To be honest, even in the round where Henderson landed the upkick, I still thought Frankie won that round. The upkick came with like 20 seconds left in the round, and I didn't think that was enough to steal it. I might feel differently if I watched it again, but watching it live, that's how I felt.


That's the criteria I believe: effective strikes trump number of strikes. The criteria doesn't factor whether a late but effective shot is any more or less important than any other moment in the round, so I can see why judges could score the round for Benson off the upkick.

#5369 The Great Muta

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:24 PM

I had a chance to rewatch Edgar-Bendo. I can see 48-47 Bendo—but I scored the fight 48-47 Edgar. Again.

My thoughts: if you beat the champion in a close fight, the champion should be afforded a rematch.

If you watch the postfight presser, Frankie looks pissed. I would be too. Edgar beat Penn, but had to fight him again because of a close decision. Edgar came back from a brutal R1 to draw Maynard, and had to defend his title again. The UFC should give Edgar the same opportunity they gave other fighters: a rematch after a close decision.

As for Pettis, I think he needs one more fight before a title fight. He had an impressive performance against Lauzon—but he lost to Guida and barely beat Stephens. I think the winner of Diaz-Miller should fight Pettis in a title eliminator. While that fight goes down, give Edgar the rematch he deserves against Bendo.

Frankie doesn't want to fight at 145. And it doesn't make sense for him to leave 155.

Malki Kawa says Benson wants to fight in Brazil, four months from now. Miller-Diaz is in May. If Edgar is healthy and has no serious injuries, and doesn't get the rematch, I'd have Edgar fight, say, Guida in June-July, and then, if he wins, the winner of Pettis-Henderson and Miller-Diaz.

#5370 Scorch

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:50 PM

What's the deal with no more PPV's until the end of April?

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