Homeland Security Dept. and Patriot Act in action...

Amazingly stupid, I feel really sorry for this guy. Is it a wonder that if you're of an ethnic minority descent in this country, you don't trust the police? So, damn, weak.
 
[quote name='redgopher']Welcome to Bush territory.
Heil Dubya![/quote]

That better be sarcasm or I may have to lite one upside your head.


It's amazing how most law enforcement officers get off on brandishing their authority and puffing out their chest. That type of alpha dog personality really pisses me off. If this guy were smart, he should have contacted the local paper. They love stuff like this. I'm sure the ACLU would love to take a case like this in federal court too!
 
I urge anyone who read this and is as appalled and disgusted as I am to do the one thing you can do...
VOTE.

get your friends to vote
get everyone you know to vote.

it is our best weapon against tyranny, oppression and our ever shrinking freedoms.
 
That only works if you're voting for the right people. If any wisecracker thinks Kerry will be looking out for your civil liberties more than anyone else, I've got news for you...
 
[quote name='bmulligan']That only works if you're voting for the right people. If any wisecracker thinks Kerry will be looking out for your civil liberties more than anyone else, I've got news for you...[/quote]

Its not that I think that Kerry will personally look out for my civil liberties; in fact, I don't really like Kerry. However, I'm more interested in the types of people he will bring in to replace Ascroft and Rumsfeld; those are the guys who are really interested in restricting speech and civil liberties.

I don't want to see Bush go nearly as much as I want to see most of his cronies go.

/just one man's opinion. :)
 
I've read a lot about stuff like this happening lately, particularly to photographers. Most of the time it's caused by some nosey paranoid old person calling the cops. All these old people have way too much time on their hands and are too damn nosey.
 
I've read a lot about stuff like this happening lately, particularly to photographers. Most of the time it's caused by some nosey paranoid old person calling the cops. All these old people have way too much time on their hands and are too damn nosey.
Click to expand...

You got that right. And then top it off with Cops who get a hard-on by screwing with people because they CAN. It's nothing new, though. Cops have always been pricks who'll harass you for no good reason except to amuse themselves. Now they just have another excuse to be intrusive: terrorist threat, it's the new definition of probable cause.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']
I've read a lot about stuff like this happening lately, particularly to photographers. Most of the time it's caused by some nosey paranoid old person calling the cops. All these old people have way too much time on their hands and are too damn nosey.
Click to expand...

You got that right. And then top it off with Cops who get a hard-on by screwing with people because they CAN. It's nothing new, though. Cops have always been pricks who'll harass you for no good reason except to amuse themselves. Now they just have another excuse to be intrusive: terrorist threat, it's the new definition of probable cause.[/quote]

AGREE'D
 
[quote name='organacow']Its not that I think that Kerry will personally look out for my civil liberties; in fact, I don't really like Kerry. However, I'm more interested in the types of people he will bring in to replace Ascroft and Rumsfeld; those are the guys who are really interested in restricting speech and civil liberties.[/quote]

Actually, I sleep safer at night because of Don Rumsfeld. Sect. of Defense needs to be a hard ass. God help us of Kerry gets elected and puts Carl Levin up for Sect. of Defense. We might as well just give away all our old nukes to the 3d world.

It's Ashcroft that scares the crap out of me. That guy's a freaking Nazi with a bad haricut and without the riding crop.
 
Yeah, now there are 2 reports with his name and address on it. Everytime he goes somewhere or gets pulled over the cops probably won't be too nice to him.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Actually, I sleep safer at night because of Don Rumsfeld. Sect. of Defense needs to be a hard ass. God help us of Kerry gets elected and puts Carl Levin up for Sect. of Defense. We might as well just give away all our old nukes to the 3d world.

It's Ashcroft that scares the crap out of me. That guy's a freaking Nazi with a bad haricut and without the riding crop.[/quote]

OK, I'll focus on what we DO agree on ;) - Ashcroft really freaks me out. I think he and his constituents would be more than happy to make everyone in the US read nothing but the bible and listen to no music produced after 1920. I'm sure he'd also prefer that nobody produce any new art, nobody ever express a dissenting opinion, and only be interested in money and professional sports.

...perhaps I'm overstating....but probably not. Maybe I'm just personally bitter because I would guess that, because my wife and I have an Armenian last name, we are likely on some list somewhere. Well, that and since I'm a Government student at a state university and I have purchased books on various political, religious, and economic culture structures (like Socialism, Communism, Capitalism, Marxist Theory, etc etc etc) - don't think I haven't been flagged for those!
 
[quote name='bmulligan'][quote name='organacow']Its not that I think that Kerry will personally look out for my civil liberties; in fact, I don't really like Kerry. However, I'm more interested in the types of people he will bring in to replace Ascroft and Rumsfeld; those are the guys who are really interested in restricting speech and civil liberties.[/quote]

Actually, I sleep safer at night because of Don Rumsfeld. Sect. of Defense needs to be a hard ass. God help us of Kerry gets elected and puts Carl Levin up for Sect. of Defense. We might as well just give away all our old nukes to the 3d world.

It's Ashcroft that scares the crap out of me. That guy's a freaking Nazi with a bad haricut and without the riding crop.[/quote]

Rummy is a fucking idiot though. Colin Powell tells him before he does something wrong not to do it, and he does it anyway. I mean you think you would listen to Colin Powell when he tells you, you need to deploy more troops than you are going to.

Him along with Ashcroft and Cheney are the primary reasons I am voting aganist Bush.
 
[quote name='bmulligan'][quote name='redgopher']Welcome to Bush territory.
Heil Dubya![/quote]

That better be sarcasm or I may have to lite one upside your head.


It's amazing how most law enforcement officers get off on brandishing their authority and puffing out their chest. That type of alpha dog personality really pisses me off. If this guy were smart, he should have contacted the local paper. They love stuff like this. I'm sure the ACLU would love to take a case like this in federal court too![/quote]

You're pretty smart, aren't ya, slick?
 
Well would you rather have this

1 person arrested

or

1,000 more killed in a terrorist attack.

We live in a different time now. We can't have everything so loose like before. This is how 9/11 happened. We were too lax with security. I mean it is sad for the guy, but what other alternative was there??
 
[quote name='Dragonlordfrodo']Well would you rather have this

1 person arrested

or

1,000 more killed in a terrorist attack.

We live in a different time now. We can't have everything so loose like before. This is how 9/11 happened. We were too lax with security. I mean it is sad for the guy, but what other alternative was there??[/quote]

The chances of busting this guy though after he had answered all their questions were very tiny, like something else... >.
 
[quote name='x0thedeadzone0x'][quote name='Dragonlordfrodo']Well would you rather have this

1 person arrested

or

1,000 more killed in a terrorist attack.

We live in a different time now. We can't have everything so loose like before. This is how 9/11 happened. We were too lax with security. I mean it is sad for the guy, but what other alternative was there??[/quote]

The chances of busting this guy though after he had answered all their questions were very tiny, like something else... >.
 
Well do you think that there are only 8 federal agents in the US? They do this all over. They are bound to catch someone. Better safe than sorry.

If I were a fed, and saw a minority taking pictures of an important landmark, I would question them. You don't know if they are a spy or what not.
 
[quote name='Dragonlordfrodo']Well would you rather have this

1 person arrested

or

1,000 more killed in a terrorist attack.

We live in a different time now. We can't have everything so loose like before. This is how 9/11 happened. We were too lax with security. I mean it is sad for the guy, but what other alternative was there??[/quote]

Come on now, that's something that the Republicans would say to get you to hand over your wallet and submit to a search. Of course, anyone in their right mind woulr rather have one innocent person arrested rather than 1000 people killed; sadly, our world is not that simple. The point of the story, i believe, is that this guy was harrassed eyond reason because he had dark skin. In his picture, he doesn't look black; he looks middle-eastern to me. There are many shades of Arabic decent, not just Osama & Hussien skin tones. The police had every right to politely question him given the nature of some of his subject matter, but it should have been fairly obvious pretty quickly that he was not an islamic (or any other kind)terrorist.

All partisan politics aside, it should be noted that it is certainly nothing new for a law-enforcement official to overstep his/her bounds and abuse their power; but the Patriot Act serves as a 'free card' for a lot of shadiness. "But he looked like he was up to no good, your Honor - I mean, he was holding a knife in the air and looking at me...So what if we were eating steaks in the same restaurant? I felt threatened, so I shot him; I was just trying to make America safer."
 
[quote name='Dragonlordfrodo']Well would you rather have this

1 person arrested

or

1,000 more killed in a terrorist attack.

We live in a different time now. We can't have everything so loose like before. This is how 9/11 happened. We were too lax with security. I mean it is sad for the guy, but what other alternative was there??[/quote]

As long as it's not you, right? What if it were you being arrested? Assuming you did nothing wrong, you'd be totally understanding and compliant? You'd be sweet as pie and agreeable with the agents? Pfft. Right.

I normally don't get into discussions like this, but I call shenanigans.
 
[quote name='Dragonlordfrodo']If I were a fed, and saw a minority taking pictures of an important landmark, I would question them. You don't know if they are a spy or what not.[/quote]

wow. that makes sense. all non-whites are potential spies.

I'm half Swedish and half Armenian and my complexion is almost like that of your 'average' white guy - could I be a spy? Even though I was born here? hmmmm...

you sir, have just discredited any further discussion by expressing such an absurd, and bigoted, sentiment. :cry:
 
No your wrong. I would cooperate. I would do what they told me. I would show them ID. I would let them search me. What have I to hide? This guy clearly had something to hide if he didn't even want to give them his name.
 
Dragonlordfrodo wrote:
Well would you rather have this

1 person arrested

or

1,000 more killed in a terrorist attack.

We live in a different time now. We can't have everything so loose like before. This is how 9/11 happened. We were too lax with security. I mean it is sad for the guy, but what other alternative was there??

------

It's not as simple as that though is it? Is it just one person who has been wrongfully detained or is it hundreds or thousands? What about your e-mail communications, should the government be able to search through them in the name of national security? Your mail? You underwear drawer?

Civil liberties are the most important thing we have? Thousands have died to protect those liberties? I remember how after 9/11 whenever anyone wanted to change the way we did things Bush (and just about everyone else) said "Well, then the terrorists have won."

i've got news for you, the more we are willing to give up of our rights and freedoms-even at the risk of lives-the more the terrorists win.

This country has a ridiculous history of panicking when the rest of the world looks at us and wonders. We interned our own citizens Japanese, Germans, Italians during WWII. We are doing it again now.

"Give me liberty, or give me death." Those words are becoming fainter and fainter and are having less and less meaning as we choose to live in fear and sacrifice all that we have always held dear.

The truth of the matter is that regardless of how much snooping and spying the government does it will not stop anyone who is willing to sacrifice their own life. Plain and simple...giving up our liberties is not part of fighting terrorism, it is a way the government can keep us ignorant, afraid and uninformed.

So do I want to see thousands die, a thousand have already died in Iraq, about 900 of them Americans. And this was a war based on lies and deceit, on fear and misguided patriotism. It was not a war that had to do with terrorism or keeping out country free.

So we have already lost another 1,000 people AND given up a huge chunk of our freedom. Looks like a win/win for Bush and his cronies. Keep the fear alive, vote Bush 2004.
 
"This country has a ridiculous history of panicking when the rest of the world looks at us and wonders. We interned our own citizens Japanese, Germans, Italians during WWII. We are doing it again now. "

Actually, we only interned the Japanese, which is kind of what adds to the "wrongness." We couldn't even be paranoid across the board -- we just locked up the non-whites.
 
[quote name='Dragonlordfrodo']No your wrong. I would cooperate. I would do what they told me. I would show them ID. I would let them search me. What have I to hide? This guy clearly had something to hide if he didn't even want to give them his name.[/quote]

I don't want to give YOU my name - does that mean I have something to hide? NO. I just don't feel that I owe you the effort of identifying myself to you. Why? Because I've done nothing wrong, and I don't know you...just like this photographer didn't know the law enforcers.

eldad9 - If it were up to DragonLord, you WOULD be arrested for wearing an anti-bush shirt.
 
'Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin.
 
[quote name='loserboy']Dragonlordfrodo wrote:
Well would you rather have this

1 person arrested

or

1,000 more killed in a terrorist attack.

We live in a different time now. We can't have everything so loose like before. This is how 9/11 happened. We were too lax with security. I mean it is sad for the guy, but what other alternative was there??

------

It's not as simple as that though is it? Is it just one person who has been wrongfully detained or is it hundreds or thousands? What about your e-mail communications, should the government be able to search through them in the name of national security? Your mail? You underwear drawer?

Civil liberties are the most important thing we have? Thousands have died to protect those liberties? I remember how after 9/11 whenever anyone wanted to change the way we did things Bush (and just about everyone else) said "Well, then the terrorists have won."

i've got news for you, the more we are willing to give up of our rights and freedoms-even at the risk of lives-the more the terrorists win.

This country has a ridiculous history of panicking when the rest of the world looks at us and wonders. We interned our own citizens Japanese, Germans, Italians during WWII. We are doing it again now.

"Give me liberty, or give me death." Those words are becoming fainter and fainter and are having less and less meaning as we choose to live in fear and sacrifice all that we have always held dear.

The truth of the matter is that regardless of how much snooping and spying the government does it will not stop anyone who is willing to sacrifice their own life. Plain and simple...giving up our liberties is not part of fighting terrorism, it is a way the government can keep us ignorant, afraid and uninformed.

So do I want to see thousands die, a thousand have already died in Iraq, about 900 of them Americans. And this was a war based on lies and deceit, on fear and misguided patriotism. It was not a war that had to do with terrorism or keeping out country free.

So we have already lost another 1,000 people AND given up a huge chunk of our freedom. Looks like a win/win for Bush and his cronies. Keep the fear alive, vote Bush 2004.[/quote]

Yes the Government should be able to look through your emails. What have you got to hide? If you aren't hiding anything, why would you care.

We have never been free to blow up buildings in the name of imaginary allah. This guy was clearly doing something to attract the attention of the feds. And considering he is using a fake name (I doubt any Middle easterner has the name Ian Spiers), not showing ID, AND the fact that he himself wrote that web page (He may have been leaving out huge parts of the story, to make himself look more innocent), I don't think anyone should be defending the man.

About the Iraq war. Are you glad saddam is out of power? So what if we didn't find WMDs, we never knew they were there to begin with, the president even said that. Saddam had a deadline to get rid of all WMDs within like 72 hours or they would go to war. Saddam sat back and did nothing. Then the UN weapons inspectors were not allowed were they needed to go. Suspicious? I think so.

Don't get me wrong, I do not like bush in the least bit. But it is because of a totally different issue, or issues he is against. The main one is the whole FCC thing with Howard Stern. Also I don't like how he is against Stem Cell research and Abortion. However there are thing I do agree with him on, including banning of Gay marriage and the war. But I think I am going to vote for Kerry this year. And if Howard Dean was still running, I would vote for him...
 
[quote name='eldad9']'Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin.[/quote]

Wow, that is like the perfect quote.
 
[quote name='Dragonlordfrodo']
Well would you rather have this

1 person arrested

or

1,000 more killed in a terrorist attack.

We live in a different time now. We can't have everything so loose like before. This is how 9/11 happened. We were too lax with security. I mean it is sad for the guy, but what other alternative was there??
[/quote]

A perfect example of the short-circuit mentality of today. The guy was taking pictures on a tripod for cryin out loud. In a public area where tourists routinely take pictures as evidenced by the plethora of people with cameras in the same area. The guy wasn't lobbing hand grenades into an embankment or carrying gasoline. It's freaking common sense people!! If it were 2:00 in the morning and he were sneaking around it may be suspicious behavior.

The problem here is a bunch of so-called "authorities" who will do anything to validate their existence by harassing anyone and everyone who may not even be remotely suspicious. The more 'work' they create for themselves, the more justified their position is. It's the cornrestone of bureaucracy in any of it's forms. Just think, if there weren't enough suspicious behavior to report, then they'd be out of a job, wouldn't they?

Ever see a 70 year old lady stripped searched in the airport? I have. Random acts of UN-common sense are rampant in the name of counter terrorism. Everyone tries to outdo everyone else by showing how 'aware' they are, therby proving their worth in the american effort for security. I call it the Tattle-Tale mentality. Just like in Communist Russia when citizens would gladly rat on their fellow commrades to get brownie points with the party or the police. With the recent Supreme Court decision requiring us to provide ID to authorities upon demand, I guess we now live in the same atmosphere.

'Scuse me while I get my papers in order; you never know when there will be that knock on the door, right before they bust it in.
 
I feel sorry for the guy that went through all that.

However, I'm from the Seattle area and I can understand why he was questioned. After 9/11 a lot of Seattle landmarks were under close watch (the Space Needle and Sea Tac Airport come to mind quickly). Fort Lewis was up and running nearly 24/7. I know that sounds like the rest of the nation around that time but Seattle was also undergoing a racial tension.

Some Seattle cops killed a black man and the black community claimed it was racial. For the man's funeral the black community clogged the roadways in and out of Seattle and backed the highways up. This certainly did not help the racial tensions at the time. Within days racial headlines were all over the media with new lawsuits and the works. Seattle has a dark little secret of being fairly racial. Apparantly this has not settled since I left.

When you add up the story - someone taking pictures of public transportation and the person being a minority in that city it isn't a huge shock to me that the incident occured that way. Put what is now considered suspicious activity and the fact that he is a minority together and you'll get situations like this. Racially fuled confrontations with the mask of national secuirity protecting it.

I don't agree with the actions taken by the Seattle police or the federal agents at all. I think it's a shame that the man had to go through all that.
 
Screening information is only one step away from censorship. If they view your e-mails, could they not change them or delete them?

With this patiot act they can pretty much spy on you however they want.

People talk about how outlandish the plot of MGS2 is, but 3 years down the road some of the things that happened in the game are seeming to become closer to reality.
 
[quote name='eldad9']At least he wasn't arrested for wearing anti-bush t-shirts.[/quote]

Those people deserved to be arrested. They had no right to wear those type of shirts there. It is like going to church wearing a Deicide Tshirt (Deicide is a satanic death metal band. The main theme of there lyrics is to bash religion).

Maybe if it were a kerry convention it would be more appropriate. But they were just asking for trouble, and seeing as they are clearly anti bush, they shouldn't have even been at the convention...
 
[quote name='Dragonlordfrodo'][quote name='eldad9']At least he wasn't arrested for wearing anti-bush t-shirts.[/quote]

Those people deserved to be arrested. They had no right to wear those type of shirts there. It is like going to church wearing a Deicide Tshirt (Deicide is a satanic death metal band. The main theme of there lyrics is to bash religion).

Maybe if it were a kerry convention it would be more appropriate. But they were just asking for trouble, and seeing as they are clearly anti bush, they shouldn't have even been at the convention...[/quote]

Wow I guess someone never heard of the 1st ammendment.
 
[quote name='trq']"This country has a ridiculous history of panicking when the rest of the world looks at us and wonders. We interned our own citizens Japanese, Germans, Italians during WWII. We are doing it again now. "

Actually, we only interned the Japanese, which is kind of what adds to the "wrongness." We couldn't even be paranoid across the board -- we just locked up the non-whites.[/quote]

ER...you're wrong trq, as much as you want it to be about race...it never is. It's always about fear and ignorance.

http://www.foitimes.com/internment/cc_tx.htm

http://www.foitimes.com/internment/fallon2.htm

http://www.segreta.org/during/internment.html

http://www.cnn.com/US/9709/21/italian.relocation/

So, as I've said, fear ruled then, and fear rules now. This is where we're headed people. Race won't matter, religion won't matter. You give up your freedom and you are telling the government it is okay to take more and more of your rights, until they take you.
 
[quote name='Dragonlordfrodo'][quote name='eldad9']At least he wasn't arrested for wearing anti-bush t-shirts.[/quote]

Those people deserved to be arrested. They had no right to wear those type of shirts there. It is like going to church wearing a Deicide Tshirt (Deicide is a satanic death metal band. The main theme of there lyrics is to bash religion).

Maybe if it were a kerry convention it would be more appropriate. But they were just asking for trouble, and seeing as they are clearly anti bush, they shouldn't have even been at the convention...[/quote]

I've listened to Marilyn Manson in church before. I know I shouldn't be allowed, as it is only my fucking RIGHT. God damn you are retarded. alamb to the slaughter, never questioning, willing to give up anything. What they were doing was a little thing called protesting. Peacefully. Now, I may be wrong here, as I am obviously not as wise as Mr. Frodo here, but is that not a constitutional right? Oh wait, that's right, the patriot act pretty much shitted all over that ideal.
 
[quote name='Dragonlordfrodo'][quote name='eldad9']At least he wasn't arrested for wearing anti-bush t-shirts.[/quote]

Those people deserved to be arrested. They had no right to wear those type of shirts there. It is like going to church wearing a Deicide Tshirt (Deicide is a satanic death metal band. The main theme of there lyrics is to bash religion).

Maybe if it were a kerry convention it would be more appropriate. But they were just asking for trouble, and seeing as they are clearly anti bush, they shouldn't have even been at the convention...[/quote]

Those people DESERVE to be arrested? Are you kidding? We, as free motherfucking citizens of the United States, can do what we want. You are just retarded to think that. Maybe they wanted to EXPRESS THEIR FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Oh, and as for your prejudice fat ass, you shouldn't be saying that they should ban gay marriage, as that's probably the only chance you've got left, if any at all.
 
But it was extremely rude of them. Just like you can't yell fire in a movie theater. Is it my right to say I have a gun in a school. Is it my right to call the president and give him death threats? No it isn't. But according to you it is, because we are protected under the 1st amendment...
 
[quote name='Dragonlordfrodo'][quote name='eldad9']At least he wasn't arrested for wearing anti-bush t-shirts.[/quote]

Those people deserved to be arrested. They had no right to wear those type of shirts there. It is like going to church wearing a Deicide Tshirt (Deicide is a satanic death metal band. The main theme of there lyrics is to bash religion).

Maybe if it were a kerry convention it would be more appropriate. But they were just asking for trouble, and seeing as they are clearly anti bush, they shouldn't have even been at the convention...[/quote]

It wasn't a convention. It was a public appearance of the president.

I guess it's OK to use exercise your right to free speech only if nobody can hear you.
 
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