Dick Cheney, Coward

Good to see Dems calling a spade a spade:


DES MOINES -- Sen. Tom Harkin called Vice President Dick Cheney a "coward" for avoiding service in Vietnam and called on President Bush to end the "backdoor draft."

The Iowa Democrat was responding Friday to the call-up of a Des Moines police officer who has already completed his eight-year military commitment.

Harkin echoed comments earlier this week by Des Moines Police Chief William McCarthy, who said the military's treatment of Des Moines Police Officer Rodell Nydam was "evil."

Nydam, 26, is being called back to Iraq despite finishing his National Guard commitment in April. He's being called up under the military's "stop loss" exemption, which can extend duty in wartime.

Harkin, who served as a jet pilot in the Navy, said the exemption wasn't intended for situations like the war in Iraq. He said first responders like Nydam are needed to protect the community.

"The part of the U.S. code that provides for this anticipates major wars, major national emergencies," Harkin said. "That is not what we're confronting right now. You think about using this law only in (extreme cases), only when we're really in dire, dire need."

Harkin also shot back at Cheney, who said in a visit to Iowa on Tuesday that presidential candidate John Kerry lacks a basic understanding of the war on terrorism and cannot make America safer.

He noted that Cheney had several student deferments that allowed him to skip serving in Vietnam.

"When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," Harkin said. "Those of us who served and those of us who went in the military don't like it when someone like a Dick Cheney comes out and he wants to be tough. Yeah, he'll be tough. He'll be tough with somebody else's blood, somebody else's kids. But not when it was his turn to go."

http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/...ing_news/0dff4c5470efba8a86256ef00074d537.txt

While I don't agree with calling Cheney a coward, I do think someone who worked to avoid military service should be less of a hawk now.

Good to see that the Dems also use the 'pre-emptive strike' tactic, although they bastardize bush for doing the same in Iraq.

Two points:

1. Lots of people had student exemptions to being involved in the Vietnam War. Why is Cheney now a "coward" for having one?

2. The IRR call-ups are not a "backdoor draft". When people sign up to go into the service, they sign a contract for an initial term and then can leave, but with an additional period where they can be called back in time of need. Regardless of whether you agree that these call-backs are a good or bad thing and what they mean in a broader context, saying these people were misled or are involved in a "backdoor draft" is just plainly untrue.

[quote name='elprincipe']Two points:

1. Lots of people had student exemptions to being involved in the Vietnam War. Why is Cheney now a "coward" for having one?

2. The IRR call-ups are not a "backdoor draft". When people sign up to go into the service, they sign a contract for an initial term and then can leave, but with an additional period where they can be called back in time of need. Regardless of whether you agree that these call-backs are a good or bad thing and what they mean in a broader context, saying these people were misled or are involved in a "backdoor draft" is just plainly untrue.[/quote]

1.I heard AFTER the student exemptions were null in void or Cheney was flunking out of Yale there was some deal about getting his gf or wife pregnant at the time to avoid service which I find reprehensible. If this is right it's one thing to be a student at the time to avoid service and all that and we remember what Clinton did but to get a woman pregnant of all things to do it.
Haha now look at me playing moralist. chuckles. But seriously if he didn't want to serve why not just go up to Canada like Clinton?
B there's a difference between a military pre-emptive strike and a political one i.e. one doesn't involve American lives being lost in the process.

anyone else hear him rag on Kerry for using the word "sensitive" when Bush also used the same word in reference to Iraq in an earlier speech?

He talks tough, and needs an ass kicking

[quote name='CaseyRyback']anyone else hear him rag on Kerry for using the word "sensitive" when Bush also used the same word in reference to Iraq in an earlier speech?

He talks tough, and needs an ass kicking[/quote]

Cheney may talk shit and cuss but Bush just gets under my skin more. I resent his cocky demeanor and think he needs to be taken down a notch. You say Cheney needs an ass kicking, well I think Bush needs it more and my dad is just the guy to do it. No I wouldn't do it because I'm too young and it wouldn't be a fair fight but my dad's about the same age as Bush. Nitpick me all you want PAD or ElPrinciple but Bush talks WAY too much shit and he needs to be shown he couldn't fight worth a damn because, yes I believe this, Bush is ALL talk in terms of the physical.

Yes, John Kerry doesn't have a cocky demeanor at all........

And as far as talking shit is concerned, how long have you been observing the political arena? 1 or 2 years? How do you know when shit is coming out of a politicians mouth? When it's open.

[quote name='bmulligan']Good to see that the Dems also use the 'pre-emptive strike' tactic, although they bastardize bush for doing the same in Iraq.[/quote]

I think a verbal pre-emptive strike is in a SLIGHTLY different class then something that caused the deaths of thousands. I sincerely hope you were joking when you said that.

Yes, it's called facetiousness. Definately hard to distinguish in a written forum, sorry. It kinda loses it's intention when it's explained.

No offfense b but you can't tell me sometimes when Bush looked smug that you thought he DIDN'T look like he needed his ass beat.
Kerry on the other hand, looks half dead most of the time, lending credence to what I've said all along. I created him to become a member of the living zombie troupe "The Rolling Stones". ;-P

[quote name='Sarang01'][quote name='CaseyRyback']anyone else hear him rag on Kerry for using the word "sensitive" when Bush also used the same word in reference to Iraq in an earlier speech?

He talks tough, and needs an ass kicking[/quote]

Cheney may talk shit and cuss but Bush just gets under my skin more. I resent his cocky demeanor and think he needs to be taken down a notch. You say Cheney needs an ass kicking, well I think Bush needs it more and my dad is just the guy to do it. No I wouldn't do it because I'm too young and it wouldn't be a fair fight but my dad's about the same age as Bush. Nitpick me all you want PAD or ElPrinciple but Bush talks WAY too much shit and he needs to be shown he couldn't fight worth a damn because, yes I believe this, Bush is ALL talk in terms of the physical.[/quote]

No need to nitpick, and Bush does talk shit all the time. He's a politician, and further a member of one of the two big parties. What do you expect?

[quote name='Sarang01'][quote name='elprincipe']Two points:

1. Lots of people had student exemptions to being involved in the Vietnam War. Why is Cheney now a "coward" for having one?

2. The IRR call-ups are not a "backdoor draft". When people sign up to go into the service, they sign a contract for an initial term and then can leave, but with an additional period where they can be called back in time of need. Regardless of whether you agree that these call-backs are a good or bad thing and what they mean in a broader context, saying these people were misled or are involved in a "backdoor draft" is just plainly untrue.[/quote]

1.I heard AFTER the student exemptions were null in void or Cheney was flunking out of Yale there was some deal about getting his gf or wife pregnant at the time to avoid service which I find reprehensible. If this is right it's one thing to be a student at the time to avoid service and all that and we remember what Clinton did but to get a woman pregnant of all things to do it.
Haha now look at me playing moralist. chuckles. But seriously if he didn't want to serve why not just go up to Canada like Clinton?
B there's a difference between a military pre-emptive strike and a political one i.e. one doesn't involve American lives being lost in the process.[/quote]

"You heard"? Is there any reputable publication that you can link to with this information?

This is from Slate. I'm not saying that it isn't speculation, but it does provide a timeline so draw your own conclusions.

What Chatterbox never realized until recently, however, is that Cheney's eldest daughter, Elizabeth Cheney, likely owes her very existence to her father's avoidance of the Vietnam draft.

The Washington Post's Phil McCombs made the intimate calculations in a profile published in April 1991, when Cheney was defense secretary. The timeline:

Aug. 29, 1964: Dick and Lynne Cheney marry.

May 19, 1965: The Selective Service classifies Dick Cheney 1-A, "available immediately for military service."

July 28, 1965: President Lyndon Johnson says draft calls will be doubled.

Oct. 26, 1965: The Selective Service declares that married men without children, who were previously exempted from the draft, will now be called up. Married men with children remain exempt.

Jan. 19, 1966: The Selective Service reclassifies Dick Cheney 3-A, "deferred from military service because service would cause hardship upon his family," because his wife is pregnant with their first child.

July 28, 1966: Elizabeth Cheney is born.

Jan. 30, 1967: Dick Cheney turns 26 and therefore becomes ineligible for the draft.

Dedicated students of obstetrics will observe that Elizabeth Cheney's birth date falls precisely nine months and two days after the Selective Service publicly revoked its policy of not drafting childless husbands. This would seem to indicate that the Cheneys, though doubtless planning to have children sometime, were seized with an untamable passion the moment Dick Cheney became vulnerable to the Vietnam draft. And acted on it. Carpe diem!

Click to expand...

http://www.slate.com/id/2097365

Imagine, Dick Cheney not rushing out to war...it's almost like he's a back stabbing power hungry fascist.

That's interesting, although hardly conclusive...kind of like W.'s Texas Air National Guard stuff.

[quote name='evilpenguin9000']Imagine, Dick Cheney not rushing out to war...it's almost like he's a back stabbing power hungry fascist.[/quote]

That comparison was an insult to Hitler!

It is funny because Hitler is a bad man and I said you insulted him by associating his political party to Dick Cheny, who is view by many as an abmormally evil person.

PC power!

[quote name='Sarang01'][quote name='CaseyRyback']anyone else hear him rag on Kerry for using the word "sensitive" when Bush also used the same word in reference to Iraq in an earlier speech?

He talks tough, and needs an ass kicking[/quote]

Cheney may talk shit and cuss but Bush just gets under my skin more. I resent his cocky demeanor and think he needs to be taken down a notch. You say Cheney needs an ass kicking, well I think Bush needs it more and my dad is just the guy to do it. No I wouldn't do it because I'm too young and it wouldn't be a fair fight but my dad's about the same age as Bush. Nitpick me all you want PAD or ElPrinciple but Bush talks WAY too much shit and he needs to be shown he couldn't fight worth a damn because, yes I believe this, Bush is ALL talk in terms of the physical.[/quote]

its almost ironic how you say Bush talks all big and bad you would like to beat him up, but instead of you (the one talking all big and bad) doing something, you would get your dad to beat up the president.

Amazing, a 25 year-old married man got his wife pregnant. Shock! Gasp! How can it be?

In the meantime, it turns out that a certain politician who likes to call others coward has lied extensively about his military record by claiming combat duties when he in fact was never so assigned and had a career rather similar to the President's.
http://instapundit.com/archives/017246.php

Isn't it funny how all these Democrats can't keep their war stories straight?

Back and forth.

[quote name='epobirs']Amazing, a 25 year-old married man got his wife pregnant. Shock! Gasp! How can it be?

In the meantime, it turns out that a certain politician who likes to call others coward has lied extensively about his military record by claiming combat duties when he in fact was never so assigned and had a career rather similar to the President's.
http://instapundit.com/archives/017246.php

Isn't it funny how all these Democrats can't keep their war stories straight?[/quote]

I'm not sure what this is apropos of, aside from character assassination. It doesn't change the fact that Cheney never served, likely knocked his wife up to get out of serving, had "other priorities" than to serve his country, but now will stand up in front of groups of people and distort Kerry's words to make a war hero seem a coward.

I really weep for the kids now fighting for us. What's going to happen when one of them is an actual war hero -- wins medals fighting for his buddies and everything -- and then has the temerity to run for office as a Democrat?

[quote name='Cracka'][quote name='Sarang01'][quote name='CaseyRyback']anyone else hear him rag on Kerry for using the word "sensitive" when Bush also used the same word in reference to Iraq in an earlier speech?

He talks tough, and needs an ass kicking[/quote]

Cheney may talk shit and cuss but Bush just gets under my skin more. I resent his cocky demeanor and think he needs to be taken down a notch. You say Cheney needs an ass kicking, well I think Bush needs it more and my dad is just the guy to do it. No I wouldn't do it because I'm too young and it wouldn't be a fair fight but my dad's about the same age as Bush. Nitpick me all you want PAD or ElPrinciple but Bush talks WAY too much shit and he needs to be shown he couldn't fight worth a damn because, yes I believe this, Bush is ALL talk in terms of the physical.[/quote]

its almost ironic how you say Bush talks all big and bad you would like to beat him up, but instead of you (the one talking all big and bad) doing something, you would get your dad to beat up the president.[/quote]

Wow astute. The reason why I said that is because I'd want a halfway fair fight. I'm like half the age of the President or more and if I didn't it wouldn't exactly knock him down a peg as much. He could just claim my age and the fact I'm youthful. Besides I think it's tacky. It's like a man slapping around a small woman, I just wouldn't consider it a fair fight.
Exactly dennis, I got that impression about what Cheney was doing.

Dennis you know what makes me sick though? All these Republicans in general priding themselves how they believe in the military. Who cut combat pay? Thank you! On another note though both parties haven't gotten veterans the benefits they should. The one's that are disabled ya know? If Kerry really wants to get some attention he could be the one of the first or the first in any party to actively pursue setting up a system to give Veterans the benefits that some of them need so badly.

[quote name='dennis_t'][quote name='epobirs']Amazing, a 25 year-old married man got his wife pregnant. Shock! Gasp! How can it be?

In the meantime, it turns out that a certain politician who likes to call others coward has lied extensively about his military record by claiming combat duties when he in fact was never so assigned and had a career rather similar to the President's.
http://instapundit.com/archives/017246.php

Isn't it funny how all these Democrats can't keep their war stories straight?[/quote]

I'm not sure what this is apropos of, aside from character assassination. It doesn't change the fact that Cheney never served, likely knocked his wife up to get out of serving, had "other priorities" than to serve his country, but now will stand up in front of groups of people and distort Kerry's words to make a war hero seem a coward.

I really weep for the kids now fighting for us. What's going to happen when one of them is an actual war hero -- wins medals fighting for his buddies and everything -- and then has the temerity to run for office as a Democrat?[/quote]

If you'd been paying attention you'd know that it was Harkin who started the latest round of name calling by targeting Cheney. Harkin forgets that drawing attention to his fantasy war record was one of the major reasons he failed to win the 1992 nomination. THose of us with longer memories recall such things.

As for the war hero running on the DNC ticket? Won't happen. Any genuine person of that sort has absolutely no reason to be aligned with the camp that still loves to toss around epithets like 'baby-killer.' Of the three dozen or so serving military personnel in my cricle of friends and acquaintances, every last one detests Kerry and his increasingly dubious service record. This was true years ago when Kerry was merely a self-proclaimed enemy of the military and not a Presidential candidate. That he has risen so far is dismaying to everyone who thought the country got a wake-up call in 2001. But this is a guy who campaigned for McGovern and Dukakis. He should enjoy a similar landslide loss as his former icons.

[quote name='epobirs']
If you'd been paying attention you'd know that it was Harkin who started the latest round of name calling by targeting Cheney. Harkin forgets that drawing attention to his fantasy war record was one of the major reasons he failed to win the 1992 nomination. THose of us with longer memories recall such things.

As for the war hero running on the DNC ticket? Won't happen. Any genuine person of that sort has absolutely no reason to be aligned with the camp that still loves to toss around epithets like 'baby-killer.' Of the three dozen or so serving military personnel in my cricle of friends and acquaintances, every last one detests Kerry and his increasingly dubious service record. This was true years ago when Kerry was merely a self-proclaimed enemy of the military and not a Presidential candidate. That he has risen so far is dismaying to everyone who thought the country got a wake-up call in 2001. But this is a guy who campaigned for McGovern and Dukakis. He should enjoy a similar landslide loss as his former icons.[/quote]

Actually, Cheney started it when he distorted Kerry's use of the word "sensitive" to smear him as a wimp -- even though both he and Bush had used the same word in the same context within the last month. It was a typical Republican smear job, and Harkin called him on it. To which the Repubs responded with a smear job against Harkin.

As far as Kerry's "increasingly dubious service record," I'd like to know what you think has been proven about his service in Vietnam. I would like to know what you think makes his war service there dubious. Surely not the fact he spoke out against the war after returning -- I think we all agree now the war was a mistake, and it took guts for him to say so back then. So what has he done that makes you discredit the fact that he went over when he could have gotten out of it, got shot at, saved lives and took care of business?

ok ok you're right, Cheney is a coward.... he should've just gone to Vietnam and helped Kerry burn down villages and shoot in free-fire zones so he could be a war hero too.

Ha! T then he could call Cheney a babby killer instead of a whimp.

Kerry: " I defended my country - then I killed babies - and I'm PROUD of my service, even though I was ashamed before"

Sounds kinda like: "I voted for the 87 billion dollars BEFORE I voted against it."

This guy is the MASTER of duality. Of course he never lies, he just never really comes close to the truth. He's almost as good as Gore at lying.

[quote name='bmulligan']Ha! T then he could call Cheney a babby killer instead of a whimp.

Kerry: " I defended my country - then I killed babies - and I'm PROUD of my service, even though I was ashamed before"

Sounds kinda like: "I voted for the 87 billion dollars BEFORE I voted against it."

This guy is the MASTER of duality. Of course he never lies, he just never really comes close to the truth. He's almost as good as Gore at lying.[/quote]

Of course, Bush threatened to veto the 87 billion dollars BEFORE he signed it, but we never hear you guys mention that.....

That's because both sides are double talkers. I'm just afraid in the near future Bush will try to take away my Civil Rights and he'll have a hell of a time trying alone with anyone else in Congress who votes for his plan.

A democratically controlled congress passed the patriot act. They have no qualms about confiscating your money or your civil rights no matter what party they are from.

[quote name='bmulligan']A democratically controlled congress passed the patriot act. They have no qualms about confiscating your money or your civil rights no matter what party they are from.[/quote]

"anyone else in Congress". I was referring to either side.