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Wii "hardware basically a GC" says Miyamoto


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#61 jkam

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 04:06 AM

I only brought up the cost of Microsoft's Live because I asked the question (now for the 3rd time which still hasn't been answered) what are you getting for your $400-$600 dollars that's gaming related besides better graphics with a PS3 or a 360? Javeryh pointed out LIVE is a great service that you are getting with the 360...however it is a pay service not something you are getting included in your $400 premium system.

So now by everyone's math:

$50 is not too much for Microsoft Live
$50 more than $200 is too much to buy a Wii at launch
$50 for a wireless Xbox 360 controller is not too much
$60 for a wireless Wiimote is not worth it
$50 is the amount not to buy a Wii but its ok to spend $150 to $350 more for not a Wii.

So where is the logic exactly? So it's way too much to spend $250 for a newer (ish) gamecube but to spend $150 to $350 more for better graphics is a completely sane and sound investment?

Maybe the wiimote isn't worth $250 but I'd like to be the one to make the judgement on that.

In the end it all doesn't mean shit....because if you spend $100 or $1000 as long as you are getting your money's worth out of it then its worth it.

#62 CoffeeEdge

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 04:10 AM

Holy Fuck, this old shit AGAIN???
Hi...

DID SOMEBODY SAY "TOOT"?!?
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#63 Michaellvortega

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 04:24 AM

I only brought up the cost of Microsoft's Live because I asked the question (now for the 3rd time which still hasn't been answered) what are you getting for your $400-$600 dollars that's gaming related besides better graphics with a PS3 or a 360? Javeryh pointed out LIVE is a great service that you are getting with the 360...however it is a pay service not something you are getting included in your $400 premium system.

So now by everyone's math:

$50 is not too much for Microsoft Live
$50 more than $200 is too much to buy a Wii at launch
$50 for a wireless Xbox 360 controller is not too much
$60 for a wireless Wiimote is not worth it
$50 is the amount not to buy a Wii but its ok to spend $150 to $350 more for not a Wii.

So where is the logic exactly? So it's way too much to spend $250 for a newer (ish) gamecube but to spend $150 to $350 more for better graphics is a completely sane and sound investment?

Maybe the wiimote isn't worth $250 but I'd like to be the one to make the judgement on that.

In the end it all doesn't mean shit....because if you spend $100 or $1000 as long as you are getting your money's worth out of it then its worth it.


Answer:More 3rd party support, a wider selection of games, proven online capability.

Either way it breaks down to preference and what it's worth to YOU.
Your either going to buy something or not, and trying to prove that something is good or not to the gamer types on a message board is pointless because their mind is made up already.
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#64 Zoglog

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 05:48 AM

you people argue over the most useless shit

#65 elwood731

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 05:56 AM

My problem with the Wii is that it doesn't feel like enough return on the investment, as far as what you're getting in the box. Sure, you could make the argument that it's a great value:

$100 GameCube
$60 Wiimote
$20? sensor bar
$50 Wii Sports

$230, which is basically what many of us assume the Wii actually costs to make. This does not include the new WiFi, etc.

Still, I just expected a little bit more. Now, granted, Nintendo has warned it would only be 2-3 times more powerful, but I suppose I haven't really seen that so far in the games. The best looking game is maybe still Zelda, and as everyone points out it's still a GC game basically. I don't expect it to rival the X360/PS3, but I do expect it to outpace the XBOX/GC/PS2. I haven't seen that yet in the games. Which, of course, leads one to think that it is essentially a second GC we're paying for with some accessories. That's not really, at the moment (having not played any games), worth $250 to me. The X360 and PS3 have noticeably better hardware than last generation. So, I'm not paying for an XBOX with wirelesss controllers, but an actually, noticeably better system spec wise. Same with PS3.

I also don't really buy the argument that people don't care about graphics. If they didn't, they wouldn't rush out and buy new systems on launch day, as rarely do they offer new gameplay experiences, as much as they offer flashier graphics. Graphics aren't the end all, be all, but they do matter. There's a reason, as many of us have discussed, that SNES games hold up better than NES, and GC/PS2/XBOX games will likely hold up better than PS/N64 games over time.

The Wiimote is a great idea, but I'm not completely sold on it yet. If Nintendo can give me 5 or so games that play like AAA titles, then I may reconsider. Otherwise, I am hesitant to buy it when I still have GC games left to play. Here's hoping they wow me at launch.

#66 cochesecochese

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 06:18 AM

you people argue over the most useless shit


LIAR!

#67 David85

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 12:14 PM

$100 GameCube
$60 Wiimote
$20? sensor bar
$50 Wii Sports

$230, which is basically what many of us assume the Wii actually costs to make. This does not include the new WiFi, etc.


How about they don't include the $50, yeah right like anyone would pay $50 for that, Wii Sports and sell me the system for $180-$200?
"It (Wii) would be a complete failure if we didn't sell more units than the Nintendo GameCube". - Satoru Iwata 2005

"If you asked me if Sony's strength in hardware was in decline, right now I guess I would have to say that might be true." - Ken Kutaragi 9-9-06

Finally they speak the truth.

#68 foltzie

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 01:23 PM

I thought Miyamoto was retiring soon anyway, who cares what he says. Let some fresh blood breathe some new life into Nintendo.


Every game developer in the world does.

The man is the father of modern video games and he doesnt sit as CEO, but rather producer or executive producer. This means he doesnt have to actively worry about the business side and focus on creativity. As mentioned above, he'll be advising Mario and Zelda games from his deathbed. He probably wont be actively involved in any future hardware generations, but I dont think he has ever been too involved with the R&D group.

#69 foltzie

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 01:45 PM

My problem with the Wii is that it doesn't feel like enough return on the investment, as far as what you're getting in the box. Sure, you could make the argument that it's a great value:

$100 GameCube
$60 Wiimote
$20? sensor bar
$50 Wii Sports

$230, which is basically what many of us assume the Wii actually costs to make. This does not include the new WiFi, etc.


How about they don't include the $50, yeah right like anyone would pay $50 for that, Wii Sports and sell me the system for $180-$200?


Because as he points out his estimate leaves out the WiFi and other components built into the system. The WiFi, built in flash, and most importantly the built in wireless recievers for the Wiimote. I've read that the hardware cost of the Wii is currently $170 a unit, assuming its valid once you add in the Wiimote you are in the $210-$220 range.

Nintendo probably sells the console to stores for ~$235 meaning their profit isnt that great on each console. If the $170 includes the Wiimote in terms of cost, then you can blame Sony and Microsoft for giving Nintendo the gaul to give the $250 price point a go.

They include Wii Sports because we arent likely to buy that game, because lets be honest, it isnt going to set the world on fire graphically*, but it does show off the Wiimote* and all of its functions. But if you want the system for $200, well wait 10 months it will see a price drop as soon as Sony or Microsoft drop their prices.

*I should not I have indeed played Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wario Ware, and Excite Truck. With regards to the first three games the grpahics are inferior to the 360 in terms of textures and sheer polygon count, but what was showed had no slow down and amazing fluidity. In the case of Excite Truck it didnt look like the realistic driving games on the 360, but I wouldnt be surprised if it held up well against a more comical game like Twisted Metal. It was also fluid in terms of animation and most amazingly steering.

*I'm not 100% sold on the Wiimote, I have a few reservations from playing games at the Fusion show. But I did enjoy myself and I "trust" Nintendo to deliver on their promises of fun games, and they havent let me down over the 8 consoles I bought from them.

#70 foltzie

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 01:47 PM

LIAR!



WINNER!

#71 jkam

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 02:51 PM

Answer:More 3rd party support, a wider selection of games, proven online capability.

Either way it breaks down to preference and what it's worth to YOU.
Your either going to buy something or not, and trying to prove that something is good or not to the gamer types on a message board is pointless because their mind is made up already.


Thank you for giving an answer...it seems no one else wanted to even attempt it or just couldn't really think of anything.

I kind of think 3rd party support and a wider selection of games falls under the same thing.

I think that 3rd party support is something that Nintendo needs but without the system actually being out I think its a little bit unfair to say that the 360 or the PS3 will have more support or a wider selection of games. If you are using the XBOX-PS2-GC era as your basis well then I would definitely agree. I think the lower development costs may help Nintendo this go around.

I find it really odd that $250 is too much for something that is trying to be innovative but $400-$600 is fine for something that isn't innovative at all. It seems the main argument is that the cube + new fangled controller is NOT worth $250. They state that its really not innovative enough....so under that assumption it seems people see better graphics as innovation. I am still deciding if I should grab a 360 or a PS3 besides a Wii but either way I look at it better graphics don't equal innovation for me. It's been done every generation. It's losing it WOW factor.

I agree it really does break down to preference. I guess I just wish everyone would be a little more fair in their assessment of things.

#72 drfunk85

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 03:23 PM

I find it really odd that $250 is too much for something that is trying to be innovative but $400-$600 is fine for something that isn't innovative at all. It seems the main argument is that the cube + new fangled controller is NOT worth $250. They state that its really not innovative enough....so under that assumption it seems people see better graphics as innovation. I am still deciding if I should grab a 360 or a PS3 besides a Wii but either way I look at it better graphics don't equal innovation for me. It's been done every generation. It's losing it WOW factor.


I agree with you. It is the same reason I am not rushing out to throw down a lot of money on a HDDVD or Blue Ray player or an HDTV, but I was willing to buy a DVD player and cable television. Graphics are nice, but the jump from where graphics were to the PS3/BluRay isn't nearly as impressive as the jump from VHS to DVD or SNES to N64/PS1 or N64/PS1 to GC/PS2/XBOX. I think Sony and Microsoft are going to realize that graphics are subject to marginal returns to scale. There is a curve, and either it has or is about to peak.

Look at digital cameras as an example. For a while, they kept shooting up in mega pixel count. However, once they hit the 4-6 MP range and that became common, the focus of the industry shifted to other features. Options and functions became more important. Sure there are digital camera's out there with ridiculous amounts of pixels, but they aren't mainstream. 4-6 MP is good enough for the average person, and beyond that, if they are going to spend more money, they would rather get more features than more pixels. And if you are going to choose between a 4-6 MP camera with some cool features and a 10 MP camera for twice the price, and call me crazy, but I think I know which one I am choosing.