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Maybe the Al-Queida Muslum terrorist dirt dwellers were reading comics to get their ideas. Maybe they were reading transformers comics and saying "Holy Allah Camelman, we should destroy the infidel's two tall buildings, because they are the enemy of our religion". The Cowardly terrorists will be hunted down by the Soldiers of the New Millineum and exterminated like the coachroaches that they are. Death to all who oppose Freedom. Our country is barely over 200 years old and look how far we have gotten compared to them. You would think that a country that is thousands upon thousands of years old would have gotten somewhere by now. They will never stop fighting so they live in a uncivilized country. They won't stop fighting and destroying their countries long enough to build something. They all deserve a major ass kicking.

[quote name='Goodtone']Maybe the Al-Queida Muslum terrorist dirt dwellers were reading comics to get their ideas. Maybe they were reading transformers comics and saying "Holy Allah Camelman, we should destroy the infidel's two tall buildings, because they are the enemy of our religion". The Cowardly terrorists will be hunted down by the Soldiers of the New Millineum and exterminated like the coachroaches that they are. Death to all who oppose Freedom. Our country is barely over 200 years old and look how far we have gotten compared to them. You would think that a country that is thousands upon thousands of years old would have gotten somewhere by now. They will never stop fighting so they live in a uncivilized country. They won't stop fighting and destroying their countries long enough to build something. They all deserve a major ass kicking.[/quote]

My, what a horribly antiquated and ethno-centric point of view. The Muslem countries were civilized way before the Europeans were. Our country is only a little over 200 years old, but it was created by countries far older, not started from scratch.

And isn't invading a foreign country, forcing our own ideals upon its people, and killing all who oppose denying freedom?

You call what they have over there civilized? I have been there and they live like they are still in the stone ages. It's 2004 people. Time to get with the program. They have ruined anything they ever had. Their artwork and some of the buildings and history is beautiful and interesting, but they have gone backwards and destroyed any progress by their constant fighting and extremism. It would take a friggin' miracle for them to move forward. Do you think it will happen in our lifetime? Those people are just plain screwed up and can't be helped. They don't want to be helped. They just want to kill, fight , and destroy. It's a major part of their culture and society. Why else would all this be happening. I know more than you think. Like I said, I have been to their countries and seen things you wouldn't believe.

It's ok. You may remain cornfused until a brainwashed arb with a briefcase full of nuke comes to your town. Then it won't matter how cornfused you are. They don't care about video games, DVD's, cars, crack, Transformers, or whatever. All they care about is killing people for their religion and they somehow think it is the right thing to do. They think they are doing something honorable and they will get "the 99 virgins" in Allah's kingdom. Killing thousands of innocent civilians at work in the largest metropolitan area in the US is a serious crime against humanity and mankind. Right up there past Hitler. These muslem coward terrorists deserve to be hunted down like the covenant and wiped from the face of our good earth. Anyone who thinks otherwise, will change their mind after the next arab terror hit. Watch and see. They are trying to figure out how to kill more Americans as we speak. Their religion also encourages lying to "infidels" in order to further their cause, so how do you know when your arab friends are telling the truth. They dream of killing you and taking your land behind your back. Watch your ass because they are out to get us. I fight when threated. I am a survivor. Death to all terrorist cowards. I don't hate them, I feel sorry for them. Especially when I have them in my crosshairs. Good will always win over evil. If you don't believe me, go watch Lord of the Rings. Then tell me I am wrong.

Your ignorance verges on comedy. Thanks, I needed a good laugh to start the workday.

We have not achieved in 200 years what Japan has achieved in 40 years.

The difference? While the United States REWARDS corrupt politicians, Japanese government officials are working with bussiness and corporation owners to find ways to improve the economy, even if it means getting less profits.

While many nations in the middle east (west asia) are in very bad shape, don't go around saying that US is how you spell success, okay?

[quote name='Goodtone']You call what they have over there civilized? I have been there and they live like they are still in the stone ages. It's 2004 people. Time to get with the program.[/quote]

you cannot judge a poor country against a rich country. you just cant. it would be like going up to a family on welfare and asking why they dont have a porche, its just common sence.

you shouldnt judge the human race's progression based on western civilization simply because the world is not ready for us. we are destroying the world. we are not giving it a chance to adapt to the changes and progress we've made in the past 100 years. too much too fast.

He puts the kkk in Amerikkka

[quote name='punqsux'][quote name='Goodtone']You call what they have over there civilized? I have been there and they live like they are still in the stone ages. It's 2004 people. Time to get with the program.[/quote]

you cannot judge a poor country against a rich country. you just cant. it would be like going up to a family on welfare and asking why they dont have a porche, its just common sence.

you shouldnt judge the human race's progression based on western civilization simply because the world is not ready for us. we are destroying the world. we are not giving it a chance to adapt to the changes and progress we've made in the past 100 years. too much too fast.[/quote]

Punq is right. We are unable to grasp the fact that different cultures are, in fact, DIFFERENT CULTURES. I worked for the Defenders of WIldlife through the World Wildlife Fund for eight years. I have been everywhere. I worked closely with the 'Environmental Technology Transfer' industry for much of my eight years with these organizations. Here is one of my favorite stories involving the US attempting to rescue the third world from the "Stone Age":

The crop cycle in central Africa is affected by locust swarms every four years or so. The United States has pesticides, the Africans do not. Pesticides kill locusts here in the states, so it stands to reason that we should share our pesticides and show the third world the wonders of modern chemistry. We use it, therefore it is good. The US "introduces" (read:forces) pesticides on central African farmers, preaching the wonders of locust slaughtering and how the crop cycle can now be altered in order to feed many more people over a longer period of time. US says: NO LOCUSTS=MORE FOOD!!! Afrticans respond: But... . US says: YOU MUST LEARN! NO LOCUSTS=MORE FOOD!!! ARE YOU NOT LISTENING?? THIS IS THE WAY WE DO IT IN THE STATES!!! WE BRING YOU OUR TECHNOLOGY AND KNOWLEDGE IN GOOD FAITH. NOW USE IT!!! Africa says: Well, ok..

So they use it. What the US faiiled to realize, as we do so very often, is the fact that DIFFERENT CULTURES HAVE DIFFERENT CUSTOMS AND BELIEFS. We are so egotistical that we have lost sight of the fact that not every country out there shares our core system of capitalistic rules and regulations, or thinks that our way is the best way. The moral of the story I told above is this: The US did not even bother to ask the AFrican farmers about the locust swarms. They forced them to use pesticides in order to prevent the crops being destroyed, all in a good faith effort to rid the Africans of locusts the same way we do here in the states. If they had asked and listened to these farmers of another culture, they would have learned that the farmers WELCOMED the locust swarms. They preferred eating the locusts over the crops. When the locusts would come, they would set up elaborate nets to catch them, and roast them over open fires for food. Crops be damned during a locust year; to them, the swarms were a blessing. The US does not look at locusts as a blessing, therefore NOBODY does, right? That is our shortsightedness in a nutshell. We didn't even ask them. A good friend of mine retold these events to an international panel in Prague- as a result, he is still a 'marked man' today as far as the government is concerned. End of long post...

First of all let me say that this is a friendly debate, and that anyone's opinion is welcomed here. I appreciate the comments that have been made to the posting of my opinion, however strong it may be. It's one of the things that makes this great country free. The right of freedom to say what you think and feel freely. I do not judge people for expressing their freedom of speach. I might voice my opinion and "argue" in a fair way about things, but there is nothing wrong with a friendly debate about issues that are worth discussing. Keep in mind that this started out as someone on ebay selling a Transformers comic depicting the twin towers turned to rubble by an evil force and the seller proceeding to list how this was a prediction of the future before it actually happened. My initial comments were a joke really. My comments are not to be taken too seriously, and some are in good humour. Some of what I said is serious and some is sarcasm. I am however very open minded and not a "Bush supporter". In fact I think both Democrats and Republicans have their strong points and their weak points. I would have to say that if I voted today, I would NOT vote for Bush mainly because of his opposition to stem cell research. I feel that stem cell research will greatly improve our medical technology and we should definitely work toward curing cancer and other major diseases. I do however feel that Bush has a few strong points and several weak ones as well. No one is perfect. Imagine the pressure it takes to perform his job. You must give him some credit and after all he is "our President" and demands some respect no matter what you agree or disagree with. He is somewhat a puppet for several descision makers that you never hear about. I do not agree with invading other countries, and I feel that being in Iraq is wrong, but we must stay united and support our troops no matter what we each think, because they are over there dying in large numbers and we individually can do nothing about it. So all we can do is think of our brothers and sisters over there fighting and risking their lives because "America" has sent them over there to fight. Think about this: We have to fight fair and they do not. Do you know what it's like to fight people in real life? Ok here's the kicker. I was in Operation Desert Storm and fought in that war. So I might know a little something about this that you do not. My opinions are from ACTUAL EXPERIENCES and I might feel a little stronger about things than someone who has never been in an actual war with these people. You learn really quick just how desperate to kill Americns they really are when you have civilian dressed terrorists with bombs strapped to there body, waving white shirts, and crying out for help. hey are waiting to kill Americans any dirty way they can. They are willing to kill themselves to try to kill a few Americans. They have no value of a human life. That to me is very disturbing. So just remember this: I would be the one to protect you against these evil people when you have your guard down and they take advantage of that. No matter what you think, I would still look out for you against the terrorist enemies. We are all Americans here. Enjoy your Freedom because it comes at a great cost and be glad you are living in one of the greatest countries ever. Semper Fi

i dont think ANYONE here dosent hope every single US troop comes home unharmed. i just wanted to get that out of the way first off.

you have to understand the way people in the middle east are raised. they are raised to become suicide bombers as much as we are raised to become functional members of society.

we have songs on childrens programing about learning to share and about educating ourself. they have songs on their childrens programing about killing infidels and becomming suicide bombers (im not even making this up, ive seen it)

yes in our view they fight dirty, but its the way they are raised, its a total 180 from our perspective of life. we're taught a good life is getting a nice job being rich and enjoying life until youre 90. they are taught there is nothing more honorable than sacrificing yourself to inflict damage on the enemy.

right or wrong, its just how the world is...

True...all true, and they also have children's stories about how a Jew was hiding behind a tree afraid for his life and the tree told the Muslum where he was hiding so that he could come and capture/kill him. The tree was so disgusted that a Jew was touching him and hiding that he begged the Muslum to come and remove him (I am not Jewish, but i respect all decent human beings no matter what) It is a story that they tell their kids like we hear "little Red Riding Hood" or "the Three Bears" as kids. Here is the argument I have about your statement: We have something called "HUMAN NATURE". It is a natural instinct that humans have. Most of us know morally when we are doing something wrong. Can you tell me that they don't realize that what they are doing is wrong or at least question it somewhat when they are killing other human beings? They know it deep down inside that they are wrong, because any human being with a conscience knows right from wrong. I will not excuse their ways because "they are raised to become suicide bombers as much as we are raised to become functional members of society". It is just plain wrong and anyone with half a brain of human nature knows when they are doing something wrong. We could TRY to educate them and teach them we are good human beings and we are different cultures that can share the earth together, but it will not work. They are evil people that want to kill us, they know better, but they have a master plan they call "Jihad". Believe me they would capture you, torture you, and cut off your head like you were an animal, and enjoy every minute of it. They hate Americans and it is not going to change any time soon. I will not for one minute try to see their point of view because as you say "its the way they are raised". It is humanly and morally wrong and they know it deep down inside. They have no guilt because they are like Cancer and they just want to kill everything off and take over. Wrong is wrong and you cannnot justify what they are doing just because they have different customs. Ride Camels, build dirt huts, worship Allah, throw rocks, do whatever, but Do not kill other human beings because they don't have the same belief system as you. As I said before those people are screwed up and they should know better. They enjoy killing. It is their instinct and it is WRONG.

the main flaw in your statement is that "human nature" is taught to us by our enviroment. its not something we are born with, and the enviroment they take in is a very violent one.

they learn that their enemies are the scum of the earth, it would be like an exterminator feeling bad for killing some mice.

you can only say they are wrong from our perspective of life (which i agree with, taking lives is wrong) but they can say we are wrong for doing some things we do too.

this issue is WAY more complex than anyone wants to aknowledge. it goes right down to the core fiber of how society brings up their children. there is no easy solution to any of it, sadly.

Think of it like this....What if there was a country where 30% of the people were like Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy? Would we say..."ok it's understandable what they are doing because it is the way they are raised. They don't know any better. It's just part of their religion, they have their ways and we are different cultures"

Ok so this may be an extreme case analogy, but I am exagerating it to prove my point here.

For those of you who missed the original topic that started all this.......check out this link

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What if Charles Mansion ruled a country and told everyone to rage Helter Skelter on other countries?

[quote name='Goodtone']Think of it like this....What if there was a country where 30% of the people were like Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy? Would we say..."ok it's understandable what they are doing because it is the way they are raised. They don't know any better. It's just part of their religion, they have their ways and we are different cultures"

Ok so this may be an extreme case analogy, but I am exagerating it to prove my point here.[/quote]

ok, heres a better analogy.

in america, if someone came into my house and threatened to kill my family, and i shot and killed them, that would be acceptable.

in the mid east, killing people they view as invaders of their homeland, which is sacred to them, is acceptable.

i understand those arnt 100% equal, but i think it shows the point enough.
im not sayig YOU personally should accept the fact that its acceptable, you were raised here in america, and have diffrent values and morals. im just saying that its a diffrent culture over there and you cannot compare our way of life to their in any way shape or form and have it be similar.

heres another analogy.
klingons and romulans. im not even going to get in to that!

What if Charles Mansion ruled a country and told everyone to rage Helter Skelter on other countries?

What if Osama Bin-Laden ruled a country and told everyone to rage "jihad" on the Infidel countries?

[quote name='Goodtone']What if Charles Mansion ruled a country and told everyone to rage Helter Skelter on other countries?

What if Osama Bin-Laden ruled a country and told everyone to rage "jihad" on the Infidel countries?[/quote]

youre ignoring my points by comming up with unprobable theories of what if X ruled X.

i dont even know what youre asking? how would i deal with it? how do i think the world would react?

the simple fact is we are faced with a culture as diffrent from ours as possible and we dont know how to deal with it because they are the first people that refuses to accept our western ways.

Ok you said "they learn that their enemies are the scum of the earth, it would be like an exterminator feeling bad for killing some mice".

So here is what I say to that. Mice are small rodents. Try to follow me here....I could mate with a Muslum woman and have a child. I can talk to and communicate with a muslum. We are both humans. We are emotional feeling rational creatures. The mice analogy is not going to work because humans are equal to humans and mice are small pea brained pests. I could not have a child with a mouse. I can with a Muslum woman. It is morally wrong to want to kill your equal just because of a religious belief.

[quote name='Goodtone']It is morally wrong to want to kill your equal just because of a religious belief.[/quote]

in your morals and beleifs, yes, it is wrong. im not doubting that for 1 second. but you cant tell the world how to act. it dosent work, as you can clearly see

Yes you are right, but I can certainly try to survive another human being trying to kill me and my fellow man "by any means necessary". It is human nature to survive. People who take control of our civilian family planes and use them as bombs to kill more civilian people at work in a large innocent metropolitan area need to be stopped. Those people are a danger to the future existence of our planet. They showed us that they will do whatever it takes to kill us even use our own innocent transportation devices against us. What will happen when they get ahold of nukes? They have shown that they are not afraid to do what it takes to kill us any way they can. They must be stopped, because 12 nuclear bombs going off in different locations in the US would be devastating. Here's something fun to read...go here and read everything in order...www.johntitor.com