Down goes Frazier (1944-2011)

Sad that the cancer was discovered too late to do anything about it. If it weren't for Ali's charisma he would have been more ingrained into the psyche of American culture. Hell he was the first black mark in Ali's career and his abilities made for the best trilogy in boxing against him.

RIP Joe
 
Wow, honestly thought Ali would be first. A friend of mine actually met Frazier in an airport once, got a picture with him. Said he was a really nice guy.
 
Too soon at the thread title. Haa haa.

I just started watching a documentary Saturday morning and haven't finished it, but Frazier is on camera talking about how he forgives Ali now, but that God doesn't forget anything and he still thinks Ali is being punished for the way he treated him, because God gets even. A day later it's announced Frazier is dying of liver cancer. Can't help but see irony in that.

Joe was a great fighter in what was probably heavyweight boxing's greatest era (that is assuming you don't consider today's to be the greatest. I mean you've got Klitchko's, David Haye, um...Shannon somebody...there's ehem. Ehh...yah)

People always dream about an Ali-Tyson fight, but if you want to see what would likely be the most violent fight in the history of boxing, you put prime Frazier in the ring against prime Ali. Someone would be leaving on a stretcher.
 
There's a furniture store now where the legendary Joe Frazier's Gym used to be on North Broad Street.

frazier-gym.jpg
 
[quote name='DestroVega']Ali was an asshole. RIP Smokin' Joe[/QUOTE]

Meh, disagree. He was one of the greatest self-promoters in history-so much of it was an act, but by most accounts, in person with no microphones and reporters, he was incredibly kind to his opponents and was close with several of them.

Larry Holmes, his former sparring partner, and one of the most underrated heavyweights of all time literally started crying after he beat an old, slow, out of shape Ali to win the title. He felt that bad about a man he admired so much.

I'm far from a boxing historian, but I've read a bunch of biographies about several boxers of his era and feel like I've crafted a moderately educated opinion. Joe was an amazing fighter, and stood out as one of the best, from arguably boxing's greatest era.
 
Watch the ESPN doc on "Thrilla in Manilla" and tell me Ali still isn't an asshole. What he did to Frazier is dispicable.
 
[quote name='DestroVega']Watch the ESPN doc on "Thrilla in Manilla" and tell me Ali still isn't an asshole. What he did to Frazier is dispicable.[/QUOTE]

I have seen it. It was mindgames and self-promotion. The problem is that his opponents weren't as eloquent or charismatic as Ali, or they would have done the same thing. When Joe would try to talk trash, it came across as unintelligable and mumbling.

Watch the ESPN doc Muhammad and Larry. Holmes loved Ali like a father. Foreman didn't necessarily dislike him. Oscar Bonavena praised Ali after taking a beating (I think...this is by memory, can't recall for sure). Foreman didn't hate Ali for the things he said, he hated him for beating him. Years later, he loves the man. Joe is the only one I'm aware of who has continued to espouse his hatred of Ali. Other opponents talk friendly about him.

The trashtalk obviously hurt Joe more than Ali's other opponents, and that's fine, but I don't think that makes Ali an asshole. He may have acted like one to Joe, but others don't think he was at all.
 
Wait, did you mean the HBO Documentary called the Thrilla in Manila (http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/thrilla-in-manila/index.html)? That's the one I finally finished. For 90% of the movie, I started to feel bad for Frazier, especially knowing he recently died. Then at the end, Frazier showed a disgraceful, ignorant side. Even his brother Tony (I think his name was Tony) and his son Marvis showed their dismay in their father's maintained grudge.

Ali apologized to Marvis after the fight, and asked him to pass his apology on to his father and entire family for the hurt he caused them, saying he didn't mean to hurt them like that and he was wrong. He also apologized in 2001 saying his biggest regret was in the way he treated Joe. Joe counters with responding to a question about Ali lighting the torch, saying he wishes someone pushed him into the flame.

His brother shocks the documentary interviewer when he asks if he's heard Joe's voicemail. They call from Tony's phone and hear this:

"Joe Frazier, sharp as a razor, yeah - float like a butterfly sting like a bee, I'm the one who did the job, ask him, you'll see".

Some say they had reconciled a bit prior to Frazier's death, but in the documentary they said that basically Joe would say they did in the lead up to an event, then right afterwards go back to talking about Ali and how he was responsible for putting Ali in his current health state. Dunno where he was on it when he died.

Great fighter. Great determination. Like Ali, no saint.
 
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