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Should I fight this eBay buyer? [UPDATED 1/24]


#1 FeuerFrei   Kupo CAGiversary!   1636 Posts   Joined 10.7 Years Ago  

Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:29 PM

Gonna keep this short. I sold a few XBOX Live codes on eBay to a few different people. Surprise, surprise, the buyer less than a month old says that one of them "was used".

He requested that I send him the code through eBay messages. I obliged. An hour later he sends me a screenshot of the Live website saying the code was already used, as in, he used the code twice, took a screenshot the second time, and is trying to play me for a fool. According to his feedback, I'm not the first person that he's received a "used" Xbox code from in his 4 transactions, what are the odds! Am I in the right to fight this? I'm 100% positive it's scam. I've already prepped the card to be mailed to him so that I can have a tracking number to give to eBay.

Here is the transcript thus far...

Spoiler

Edited by btw1217, 25 January 2013 - 03:17 AM.


#2 highoffcoffee496   I gotta believe! CAGiversary!   1444 Posts   Joined 3.1 Years Ago  

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:38 PM

Fight it, but I hear that sadly the buyers usually win and not the sellers :c
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#3 tangytangerine   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   3769 Posts   Joined 9.6 Years Ago  

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:54 PM

At this point, it's a losing battle. Pointing out to ebay that he's done this before might have them look into his account, but you're probably going to lose the money from the sale.

Even if you mail it, he'll probably just open a dispute no matter what saying the card was used.

FYI, add his user name to the blocked bidder list in this forum.
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#4 Vinny   Bang, bang... pew... CAGiversary!   20031 Posts   Joined 11.0 Years Ago  

Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:56 PM

You should definitely fight it. The chances of you winning are low but if you bring up his history, you might win.

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#5 whoknows   Time and Eternity for all of time and eternity CAGiversary!   35955 Posts   Joined 10.9 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:06 AM

Can MS tell you when it was redeemed?

you are a pillar of the video game/gaming community.  

Thanks you are truly a pillar of the community!

 

It's because of pillars like you, I remain in this community.  Thank you!

 

Spoken like a true pillar. The community sends its many thanks.

 

How dare you speak to the pillar of our community that way. If he says you're a closet vita fan he knows what he's talking about.

 

 


#6 FeuerFrei   Kupo CAGiversary!   1636 Posts   Joined 10.7 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:18 AM

Updated OP. He filed a PayPal dispute. I reported him to eBay and made PayPal statements that aren't showing up for some reason. Probably won't win, but I won't make it easy either.

#7 Vanacloud   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   849 Posts   Joined 5.4 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:52 AM

This is why selling codes on ebay is a bad idea.

#8 MushaOne   etc. and so forth... CAGiversary!   3736 Posts   Joined 11.4 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:02 AM

This is why selling codes on ebay is a bad idea.


Yup. And the liar will be rewarded by eBay too. I say find out where he lives, visit him and smash his fingers with a hammer. Or just tell eBay that you are black and he is white and is being racist to you for it.

#9 georox   The Captain CAGiversary!   6929 Posts   Joined 8.4 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:26 AM

Tell him to suck the code out of your dick. #stayclassy

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#10 Barney   Barnito Knows Best! CAGiversary!   1483 Posts   Joined 3.5 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:28 AM

Tell him to suck the code out of your dick. #stayclassy

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#11 DerekVinyard   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   33 Posts   Joined 3.9 Years Ago  

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:53 AM

Tell him to suck the code out of your dick. #stayclassy


so awesome :lol:

I think you're screwed OP. Unfortunately, I don't think ebay approves of sending the codes by email/ebay messages. Anyone ever have problems shipping a code by mail and then have the buyer say the code was already redeemed?

#12 AugustAPC   Not For Sale CAGiversary!   2676 Posts   Joined 4.8 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:26 AM

Never send your codes through email. Always mail your item.

eBay is a shithole of scamming and they do nothing to stop it. In fact, I think they actively encourage it. Why can't sellers leave negatives? That's fucking retarded.

Regardless, protect yourself when you sell on eBay. You know what kinda filth roam that site...

I had two people in the same month claim that I sold them broken consoles, and they wanted refunds after like 2 weeks. I told them that was fine and I would refund them as soon as I verified the serial numbers on the consoles and I never heard back from them. BOTH of them were scammers, both in the same month. Luckily I protected myself against that shit.

Edited by AugustAPC, 06 January 2013 - 02:41 AM.


#13 twiceborn   Say What?! CAGiversary!   877 Posts   Joined 5.7 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:07 AM

Unfortunately your going to lose for the simple fact your no longer allowed to sell this type of digital content on Ebay anymore. And this is precisely the reason why it was disallowed. I imagine it's too time consuming for Ebay and near impossible to verify who is telling the truth when a dispute occurs over a digital code.

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#14 Vinny   Bang, bang... pew... CAGiversary!   20031 Posts   Joined 11.0 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:16 AM

Never send your codes through email. Always mail your item.


All they have to do is claim the code doesn't work, which the buyer did. This fact, plus his/her history described by OP says that this buyer is an experienced scammer.

Unfortunately your going to lose for the simple fact your no longer allowed to sell this type of digital content on Ebay anymore. And this is precisely the reason why it was disallowed. I imagine it's too time consuming for Ebay and near impossible to verify who is telling the truth when a dispute occurs over a digital code.


I think that rule is for DLC content only, which by fineprint, is for the recipient. Retail codes of virtual money (Wii Points, Live points) and subscription is still allowed (PSN+ and XBL Gold) are ok.

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#15 NonShalant   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   106 Posts   Joined 6.3 Years Ago  

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:41 AM

Never send your codes through email. Always mail your item.

eBay is a shithole of scamming and they do nothing to stop it. In fact, I think they actively encourage it. Why can't sellers leave negatives? That's fucking retarded.

Regardless, protect yourself when you sell on eBay. You know what kinda filth roam that site...

I had two people in the same month claim that I sold them broken consoles, and they wanted refunds after like 2 weeks. I told them that was fine and I would refund them as soon as I verified the serial numbers on the consoles and I never heard back from them. BOTH of them were scammers, both in the same month. Luckily I protected myself against that shit.


Glad I read this. I've sold consoles on eBay before with no problem. But the leading bidder has a 0. I'm always wary of 0s

#16 FeuerFrei   Kupo CAGiversary!   1636 Posts   Joined 10.7 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:54 AM

I'm planning on mailing the card first thing Monday. Luckily I printed a shipping label prior to the dispute being filed, so maybe PayPal is waiting to see if I physically deliver the item. Hoping for the best.

#17 poopants   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   114 Posts   Joined 6.6 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:06 AM

I would also like to know the ebay user name so I can add to my blocked bidders list

#18 FeuerFrei   Kupo CAGiversary!   1636 Posts   Joined 10.7 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:11 AM

I would also like to know the ebay user name so I can add to my blocked bidders list


His username is usmc_products

My favorite part is where he kindly asked me to send him the code through eBay messages, and then once the PayPal claim was filed, told PayPal that it was against eBay ToS since 2008 to send codes through messages.

#19 AugustAPC   Not For Sale CAGiversary!   2676 Posts   Joined 4.8 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:42 AM

All they have to do is claim the code doesn't work, which the buyer did. This fact, plus his/her history described by OP says that this buyer is an experienced scammer.


Yes, but you have absolutely no chance of winning any case if you don't mail your item. If you send a code by eMail, you've digitally fucked yourself. At least when you mail your item, you can get passed step 1, which is proving you actually delivered your item.

Glad I read this. I've sold consoles on eBay before with no problem. But the leading bidder has a 0. I'm always wary of 0s


Yea, man. Always take down serial numbers for consoles. I was so blown away that out of 4 consoles I was selling in a month, two of them were being returned to me being claimed they were broken. It was a 360 and a Dreamcast... around $150 that I would have had to refund. Not a peep out of them when I told them that I would be verifying the serial numbers. I'm sure they intended to send me back their broken consoles and keep my working ones.

#20 Gamer SDP   not much of a gamer CAGiversary!   4614 Posts   Joined 9.1 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:43 AM

did the OP actually call up Microsoft to verify the code was used?

can't believe the buyer said that Microsoft would likely tell him to get the seller to refund or send a new code. Fuck this guy.

OP should contact the other sellers and inquire. Google the buyer's zip code and local police and call them saying this person is a scammer.

#21 Yamato   not motivated CAGiversary!   3889 Posts   Joined 6.6 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:25 AM

Calling MS should yield the date and time (and maybe even location) of the code redemption. At least it has in the past. That could help you prove that he redeemed it.

#22 ShockandAww   Truth is treason CAGiversary!   7206 Posts   Joined 5.9 Years Ago  

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:52 PM

Yeah buddy, shit sucks. You're probably screwed.

I just sold a code to someone with low feedback when I specified in my listing that I didnt want anyone with low feedback buying from me because of shit like this. Of course he completely ignored it and there's nothing I can do about it. No messages or anything from him. I almost just want to relist it and tell the guy to Fuck off..

#23 GBAstar   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   9268 Posts   Joined 4.8 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

OP,

What type of PP dispute did he open (SNAD or INR)?

It is against eBay's and PayPal's Terms of Service (TOS) to sell anything that is not tangible or delivered electronically. That's not to say you can't do it (although your listings may get flagged) it just means you will lose your seller protection.

If you do decide to continue to sell electronic items figure out what your loss threshold is. Is it a $10 item? $20? $50?

Figure out what the number is and physically ship any item that crosses that threshold.

You can still send the codes through e-mail but ALWAYS print a shipping label first that way they'll look stupid if they file INR but you have a Delivery Confirmation/tracking number.

It doesn't mean they can't later upgrade the case to a SNAD but at least you have that first line of defense.

If the buyer files a SNAD case you're up shit creek regardless of what you're selling as the majority are almost always found in the buyer's favor and your only and best option as a seller is to select "Return for Refund" which leaves you empty handed in a case like this.

I have outsmarted scammers in situations like this by responding to the effect of:

"Dear buyer, I'm very sorry you are having a problem with the code/DLC. I will contact Microsoft/Steam/EA/Origin and give them the information to see if and when it was redeemed or why it is invalid"

Typically I would get a response a few minutes later saying that they must of incorrectly entered the code because now it's working

but there are always going to be those idiots that are willing to risk getting permabanned from eBay because they can't help themselves over $5/$10 worth of DLC and continue to open cases.

This is below me but others have said that to get even they sign the buyer up for all kinds of junk mail and subscriptions because you have their mailing address.

Anyways Good luck with your dispute

#24 FeuerFrei   Kupo CAGiversary!   1636 Posts   Joined 10.7 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:38 PM

The buyer opened a "Not As Described" dispute claiming that the code was already used. I'm waiting with Microsoft right now to see if they can tell me when the code was actually redeemed. I'll feel like an asshole if they say sometime other than yesterday afternoon, but somehow I doubt they will. Even if they confirm my suspicions, I don't think PayPal will take that information into consideration, as it doesn't prove that I didn't redeem it prior to sending it. Unfortunately it's just my word against his, and I don't think PayPal cares.

#25 GBAstar   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   9268 Posts   Joined 4.8 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:51 PM

It is very unlikely that you will win this case being that he opened it as a SNAD.

However here a couple of things you could try.

First did you send the code through eBay messages? If so you might have a more difficult time pulling this off (eBay and PayPal communicate) however you could go to the case in PayPal and enter an update to the effect of "Item was mailed on [Enter Date]; here is the tracking information. I'm not sure how the buyer could possibly have a problem with the item at this time as it hasn't been delivered yet".

PayPal and eBay almost never take any communication outside of eBay into account as it can't be considered credible (anyone can doctor an e-mail).

Also just to make things more difficult for the buyer you could request that they return the voucher/dlc code for a refund as that is your only option.

That typically will delay a refund of your funds from PayPal to the buyer until he can prove to PayPal that he returned something (they will check Delivery Confirmation/tracking). At least this way he has to take the time to mail something back to you and you'd be surprised at how lazy scammers can be.

If he just refuses the item or marks it "return to sender" he can't really claim a SNAD as he never had possession of it.

But again you'd still only have an outside shot because as soon as PayPal realizes this was a digital code that you sent through eBay messages they will most likely rule in the buyer's favor.

#26 FeuerFrei   Kupo CAGiversary!   1636 Posts   Joined 10.7 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

I did send it through eBay messages, as I naively assumed that would offer me extra protection. If given the option I may do the "Return for refund". Still waiting with Microsoft. If they can actually tell me when and WHERE it was used, maybe that would mean something.

#27 DerekVinyard   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   33 Posts   Joined 3.9 Years Ago  

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

Microsoft will tell you when the code was redeemed for sure. However, I don't believe they will release who redeemed it or their location. I just have a feeling ebay won't care. Good luck.

#28 FeuerFrei   Kupo CAGiversary!   1636 Posts   Joined 10.7 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

Microsoft told me that the code was used yesterday, but couldn't give me a time or location. That confirms my suspicions, but doesn't provide me any real ammunition for this dispute.

#29 GBAstar   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   9268 Posts   Joined 4.8 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

Microsoft told me that the code was used yesterday, but couldn't give me a time or location. That confirms my suspicions, but doesn't provide me any real ammunition for this dispute.


If you don't mind answering what was the XBL code for? 1 month? 3 months? A year?

I'm just trying to gauge how involved I'd get if I was you.

You could also look at their feedback to see what other transactions they've been involved in and contact those sellers.

You could then use the information they give you to help support your case by either telling the buyer you've contacted other sellers and know he is full of shit or contact PayPal and tell them he has a history of this type of behavior.

You can also report the buyer for abusing eBay/PayPal's buyer protection. The easiest way to do this is directly through eBay's website.

#30 FeuerFrei   Kupo CAGiversary!   1636 Posts   Joined 10.7 Years Ago  

Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:14 PM

If you don't mind answering what was the XBL code for? 1 month? 3 months? A year?

I'm just trying to gauge how involved I'd get if I was you.

You could also look at their feedback to see what other transactions they've been involved in and contact those sellers.

You could then use the information they give you to help support your case by either telling the buyer you've contacted other sellers and know he is full of shit or contact PayPal and tell them he has a history of this type of behavior.

You can also report the buyer for abusing eBay/PayPal's buyer protection. The easiest way to do this is directly through eBay's website.


It was for a 3 month code and is really of no substantial loss for me. I have issues with injustice though and would rather waste my entire weekend fighting this than to let him get away with another scam and move on to the next. It's not about my money at this point, simply hoping that he'll get what he deserves.

I filed a report for buyer abusing buyer protection on eBay yesterday. Maybe they'll actually look into it. I may contact the other sellers to see if they had issues. I know one did.