Limited Run Games Thread - We only promise our NES games will work, not your console

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Tothoro said:
It gets better:
https://www.reddit.com/r/limitedrun/comments/1kawa9t

The Shantae GBA carts might just be recycled boards from junk games. Emphasis on might - there's some skepticism in the thread and I don't know enough about GBA carts or how data is read from them to have an authoritative opinion.
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Yeah that's bullshit. You can't reflash GBA retail carts. Also the shantae board has an fpga on it, no retail cart does. The guy trying to dump it has no idea what he's talking about. There is a functional dump online, the game has no rom title assigned, whatever crappy software he's using doesn't seem to handle that
 
Vinny said:
I mean... I dunno, is it that big of a deal if the chip looks kinda scuffed up? I'm sure it's cheap but if it's not like their NES carts that destroy consoles, dunno if I'd care.

I hate how cheap that box looks though. I have a few of the GBx releases and they've all looked fairly decent. This looks like shit.
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I would guess they could be old stock that was sitting in a box, or maybe it's leftover flux from fab. But yeah the top of the chip being dirty doesn't affect it's functionality, if you were mounting a heatsink sure, but not here
 
Thomascagger said:
I would guess they could be old stock that was sitting in a box, or maybe it's leftover flux from fab. But yeah the top of the chip being dirty doesn't affect it's functionality, if you were mounting a heatsink sure, but not here
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Final product condition is reflective of the way it was produced, typically.

They could be utilizing B stock parts to cut costs, which are items with non-function impairing defects (visual scuffs on the casing, no damage to pins).

Or theyre just built with no quality control. They could have dropped the naked board, kicked it, found it, and slapped it in a shell thinking it would never be found out.

It doesn't bode confidence in the long term durability of the product if it arrives already damaged.

Given Josh has allegedly stated they expect to get away with this stuff because "no one opens their products anyway" (which is 100% believable he stated that and probably believes in it), then shipping out low quality stuff isn't surprising.
 
TheKbob said:
Final product condition is reflective of the way it was produced, typically.

They could be utilizing B stock parts to cut costs, which are items with non-function impairing defects (visual scuffs on the casing, no damage to pins).

Or theyre just built with no quality control. They could have dropped the naked board, kicked it, found it, and slapped it in a shell thinking it would never be found out.

It doesn't bode confidence in the long term durability of the product if it arrives already damaged.

Given Josh has allegedly stated they expect to get away with this stuff because "no one opens their products anyway" (which is 100% believable he stated that and probably believes in it), then shipping out low quality stuff isn't surprising.
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I'm a big time LRG hater, but the actual PCBs look fine to me, and the soldering also looks clean.

The chips are what look like they obtained bulk secondhand chips, which from a functional perspective isn't that big of a deal. (Edit: I think the soldering is too clean to think LRG assembled these in house, probably just took the cheapest factory option)

These type of chips are designed to be overwritten and reused, the FRAM chip they seem to be using is rated for 150 years of use at 65C, the 128 flash chip model that I pulled up the sheet for is rated for 100k rewrite cycles and a minimum of 20 years of data retention with no listed maximum and operational temps up to 85C.

I mean yeah LRG could have maybe ran the chips through an ultrasonic cleaner and made them look pretty and not even say they used pulled chips I guess but they should be functionally sound, these type of chips aren't gonna stop working cuz there's smudges on the casing
 
Thomascagger said:
I'm a big time LRG hater, but the actual PCBs look fine to me, and the soldering also looks clean.

The chips are what look like they obtained bulk secondhand chips, which from a functional perspective isn't that big of a deal. (Edit: I think the soldering is too clean to think LRG assembled these in house, probably just took the cheapest factory option)

These type of chips are designed to be overwritten and reused, the FRAM chip they seem to be using is rated for 150 years of use at 65C, the 128 flash chip model that I pulled up the sheet for is rated for 100k rewrite cycles and a minimum of 20 years of data retention with no listed maximum and operational temps up to 85C.

I mean yeah LRG could have maybe ran the chips through an ultrasonic cleaner and made them look pretty and not even say they used pulled chips I guess but they should be functionally sound, these type of chips aren't gonna stop working cuz there's smudges on the casing
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This is how I'm seeing it as well.

There's plenty to blame LRG for, but this isn't too surprising seems like they prob just got the cheapest source for these chips and likely didn't put in any money on quality control. And let's be honest, nobody was gonna match original Nintendo product standards anyway.
 
Thomascagger said:
I'm a big time LRG hater, but the actual PCBs look fine to me, and the soldering also looks clean.

The chips are what look like they obtained bulk secondhand chips, which from a functional perspective isn't that big of a deal. (Edit: I think the soldering is too clean to think LRG assembled these in house, probably just took the cheapest factory option)

These type of chips are designed to be overwritten and reused, the FRAM chip they seem to be using is rated for 150 years of use at 65C, the 128 flash chip model that I pulled up the sheet for is rated for 100k rewrite cycles and a minimum of 20 years of data retention with no listed maximum and operational temps up to 85C.

I mean yeah LRG could have maybe ran the chips through an ultrasonic cleaner and made them look pretty and not even say they used pulled chips I guess but they should be functionally sound, these type of chips aren't gonna stop working cuz there's smudges on the casing
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Letting the customer know you're using B stock is typically the thing to do. If they're thinking the price reflects new parts, A stock, and you use B, then that's usually breach on contact.

With consumer products, it's more just being sketchy and gross. Whether it rises to a civil claim would require courts.

Do the specs have any durability data? Drop shock is a thing. Likely not a big concern for a GBA repro, but again, if I found a supplier was using dropped or B stock in my realm, there'd be a work stoppage and lots of investigation.

This is just another potential example of LRG doing what they can get away with versus what they should be doing.
 
TheKbob said:
Letting the customer know you're using B stock is typically the thing to do. If they're thinking the price reflects new parts, A stock, and you use B, then that's usually breach on contact.

With consumer products, it's more just being sketchy and gross. Whether it rises to a civil claim would require courts.

Do the specs have any durability data? Drop shock is a thing. Likely not a big concern for a GBA repro, but again, if I found a supplier was using dropped or B stock in my realm, there'd be a work stoppage and lots of investigation.

This is just another potential example of LRG doing what they can get away with versus what they should be doing.
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I see no reason they should have. The carts work fine, some person using a poor dumping solution that uses an internal database of title IDs to identify carts then running to social to scream THEY REUSED CROUCHING TIGER CARTS like an absolute megadumbass is actually a worse look. I'm not reading through the data sheet again for you, go do your own homework. If you are actively dropping your games from five story buildings you might wanna to see a doctor.
 
Thomascagger said:
I see no reason they should have. The carts work fine, some person using a poor dumping solution that uses an internal database of title IDs to identify carts then running to social to scream THEY REUSED CROUCHING TIGER CARTS like an absolute megadumbass is actually a worse look. I'm not reading through the data sheet again for you, go do your own homework. If you are actively dropping your games from five story buildings you might wanna to see a doctor.
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Apologizing for LRG is great look these days, I guess.
 
I mean, LRG steps on enough rakes on their own. If the cart/chip reuse stuff isn't accurate then I don't think it's a bad thing to clarify. Most people, myself included, don't have a background in PCB manufacturing so it's nice to hear someone who seemingly does weigh in on the situation.
 
I reviewed PCB specs yesterday. For the job that pays me, not just poking at whatever this board has on it. (I don't do consumer electronics)

So folks can decide if I know what's a bad practice or not.

LRG's history and executive's attitudes suggests they go lowest cost solution regardless of quality , reliability, or longevity of the product.

The whole dumping thing or "it'll kill your Gameboy" are nonstarters, but physical games built with lower quality components is not what most LRG buyers expect. If they wanted that quality, there's plenty of much, much cheaper options elsewhere.

Folks shopping LRG want a level of authenticity similar to OEM products. But if folks are getting Alibaba quality at boutique pricing? Damn right folks have a right to be upset.

You doing need to be an electrical engineer to understand that.
 
Tothoro said:
I mean, LRG steps on enough rakes on their own. If the cart/chip reuse stuff isn't accurate then I don't think it's a bad thing to clarify. Most people, myself included, don't have a background in PCB manufacturing so it's nice to hear someone who seemingly does weigh in on the situation.
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I used to make repros for NES translations by hand by desoldering the original chips and then UV wiping and flashing EEPROMS that were drop in compatible or lifting and rewiring pins to match the pinout as needed.
Nowadays you can get prefabbed PCBs designed to just let you drop in an eeprom cuz the board is printed to match. I always just bulk bought EEPROMs from eBay, they were used but are designed to be rewritten as needed, they're still perfectly functional.

These were 27C256, 27c801, 27c020s, etc. External condition varied greatly on the casings but I only recall ever having to toss one pulled chip that refused to verify after flashing. I'm not saying I'm some professional PCB fabrication expert but some scratches on the surface are definitely not impacting their functionality.
 
TheKbob said:
I reviewed PCB specs yesterday. For the job that pays me, not just poking at whatever this board has on it. (I don't do consumer electronics)

So folks can decide if I know what's a bad practice or not.

LRG's history and executive's attitudes suggests they go lowest cost solution regardless of quality , reliability, or longevity of the product.

The whole dumping thing or "it'll kill your Gameboy" are nonstarters, but physical games built with lower quality components is not what most LRG buyers expect. If they wanted that quality, there's plenty of much, much cheaper options elsewhere.

Folks shopping LRG want a level of authenticity similar to OEM products. But if folks are getting Alibaba quality at boutique pricing? Damn right folks have a right to be upset.

You doing need to be an electrical engineer to understand that.
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Thoughts on the LRG PCB? Imo they look cleanly fabbed, just reused chips
 
Thomascagger said:
Thoughts on the LRG PCB? Imo they look cleanly fabbed, just reused chips
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I already stated above. Using B stock when clients expect A stock is bad.

Without knowing how those components were damaged or how they were stored, their service life is likely degraded.

I don't see an issue with PCB or connections, as you stated, but who knows what the quality is like in the board itself. I'd hope it's not going to delaminate, but possible if they cheaped out there.
 
I read up a bunch on the Shantae issues. Some people that regularly open GBA games posted they had seen similar in retail games. Obviously not completely because they have to use that one custom (fpga?) chip for the custom gba bus and this is a new board... but like, the chip condition isn't that unusual. It's not something I care about one way or the other as I'm not buying modern releases of games for old systems weather it's old unfinished games that are now finished for the first time and put on repro carts or full on custom roms or existing games you can still get on the aftermarket. Like, not for me. But I can see why some are miffed that bought this and opened up the cart to see it wasn't as clean as expected. But it doesn't seem to be everyone. Definitely check yours out if you bought it.

The deal with the wrong game showing in emulators is not due to reuse of any chips or boards, it's because they reused a known cart ID. So the emulators know that id goes with a specific game. Why did they do this? I don't know unless the ID has some identifying info that the gba uses and this was to ensure compatibility. But whatever the case, this a hack of a rom or reused boards. Yes, they used some refurbished chips, but many of the chips for old games aren't manufactured any more nor is there still old new stock floating around. Not sure if GBA is one of the platforms, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

Again, not that I bought this. So no skin in the game either way. I get the FOMO of this... especially with the resell value of old Shantae games and this being previously unreleased. BUT, like, this is LRG.
 
nightc1 said:
I read up a bunch on the Shantae issues. Some people that regularly open GBA games posted they had seen similar in retail games. Obviously not completely because they have to use that one custom (fpga?) chip for the custom gba bus and this is a new board... but like, the chip condition isn't that unusual. It's not something I care about one way or the other as I'm not buying modern releases of games for old systems weather it's old unfinished games that are now finished for the first time and put on repro carts or full on custom roms or existing games you can still get on the aftermarket. Like, not for me. But I can see why some are miffed that bought this and opened up the cart to see it wasn't as clean as expected. But it doesn't seem to be everyone. Definitely check yours out if you bought it.

The deal with the wrong game showing in emulators is not due to reuse of any chips or boards, it's because they reused a known cart ID. So the emulators know that id goes with a specific game. Why did they do this? I don't know unless the ID has some identifying info that the gba uses and this was to ensure compatibility. But whatever the case, this a hack of a rom or reused boards. Yes, they used some refurbished chips, but many of the chips for old games aren't manufactured any more nor is there still old new stock floating around. Not sure if GBA is one of the platforms, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

Again, not that I bought this. So no skin in the game either way. I get the FOMO of this... especially with the resell value of old Shantae games and this being previously unreleased. BUT, like, this is LRG.
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The dump I have, which is fully functional, doesn't actually have a cart title, it's entirely 0x00. it was never in lot check so that's not entirely weird, I think they left it blank and the software etc reliea on it due to poor coding choices by whoever made it and it just picked some random title to assume it was maybe due to save type or something
 

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