20% of California Seniors Fail 8th Grade Math and 10th Grade English Requirements

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20% of Seniors Flunk High School Graduation Exam

Nearly 100,000 statewide are in jeopardy of not earning diplomas, a report says. They have until June to pass the two-part, two-day test.

By Duke Helfand, Times Staff Writer

Nearly 100,000 California 12th graders — or about 20% of this year's senior class — have failed the state's graduation exam, potentially jeopardizing their chances of earning diplomas, according to the most definitive report on the mandatory test, released Friday.

Students in the class of 2006, the first group to face the graduation requirement, must pass both the English and math sections of the test by June.

The exit exam — which has come under criticism by some educators, legislators and civil rights advocates — is geared to an eighth-grade level in math and to ninth- and 10th-grade levels in English.

But the report by the Virginia-based Human Resources Research Organization showed that tens of thousands of students, particularly those in special education and others who speak English as a second language, may fail the test by the end of their senior year despite remedial classes, after-school tutoring and other academic help.

Teachers, according to the report, said that many students arrive unprepared and unmotivated for their high school courses and that their grades often reflect poor attendance and low parental involvement.

The group reviewed the test results as part of a report ordered by the Legislature when it instituted the exit exam several years ago.

Among its findings: 63% of African Americans and 68% of Latinos in the class of 2006 have passed both parts of the exam.

By comparison, 89% of Asians and 90% of whites have passed. The report recommended that the state keep the exam but consider several alternatives for students who can't pass.

"Clearly, we need to have some options for these students," said Lauress L. Wise, the firm's president, in a telephone interview with reporters.

The state, for example, could allow seniors to submit portfolios of work that demonstrate mastery of English and math, the report's authors suggested.

The report also proposed that schools allow students to spend an extra year in high school or earn diplomas by completing special summer school programs in lieu of the exam.

Additionally, the state could establish alternate diplomas or graduation certificates for students who pass part of the exit exam, the group said.

But California's superintendent of public instruction, Jack O'Connell, said he opposes any change that would diminish the worth of a high school diploma.

"It's important to keep one core principle front and center: awarding a student a diploma without the skills and knowledge to back it up does the student a disservice," said O'Connell, who added that his staff would study the options outlined in the report.

The exit exam was originally slated for students in the class of 2004. But disappointing passing rates prompted state education officials to push the requirement back two years. The state also shortened the test from three days to two.

Students get several opportunities to pass the exam in high school, and they have to correctly answer only a little more than half of the questions to succeed.

Even so, the exam has come under legal attack by disability rights advocates who fear the effect on special education students; just 35% of such students have passed both parts of the exam so far.

A bill recently approved by the Legislature, which sought to settle a special education lawsuit, would delay the requirement for another two years for many students with disabilities. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has not indicated his position on the measure.

Special education advocates and others who oppose the mandatory graduation requirement called Friday's report a sobering wake-up call.

Opponents of the exam said that it penalizes minority students and those in low-income communities whose overcrowded schools often lack experienced teachers and other necessary resources.

"It's unfair to give this test because of the unequal school system we have," said Edgar Sanchez, who teaches U.S. history at Washington Preparatory High School in South Los Angeles. "Every day I see students go through conditions of overcrowding. Sometimes students don't have a desk to sit at."

Los Angeles High School senior D'Janay O'Neal had another complaint. She said she freezes up on the math portion of the test because "math has never been my strong suit."

D'Janay, 17, said she passed the English section on the first try but has failed the math part three times. She is taking an extra remedial math class this semester to help her pass the test, in addition to her Algebra II class and two Advanced Placement courses. She said she has a 2.0 grade point average.

"I am totally freaking out that I may not graduate," said D'Janay, who attended a rally against the exit exam this week in a park next to her high school.

"No matter what happens, I'm going to college because I need college to further my education," she said.

The high school protesters — carrying banners that read "Educate Don't Terminate" and "Don't Judge Students By One Test" — denounced the exam as discriminatory.

They called for Schwarzenegger to sign another bill that would allow schools districts the freedom to evaluate students through alternative assessments such as portfolios of work. The Legislature recently approved the bill, which is sitting on the governor's desk. Schwarzenegger has not taken a position on the bill, a spokeswoman said.

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This is so typical. The civil rights activists (None of whom will endorse vouchers, school choice or charter schools.), educators (Read: teacher's unions.) and legislators (Slaves to the previous two groups.) blame the test. No, forget the educational system. Forget 12 years of public schooling so inept that kids can't do pre-algebra math. Forget 12 yars of public schooling that can't teach kids to read a basic novel, let alone grasp and understand Shakespeare. It's the test's fault!

Anything wrong with the outcomes of liberal policy? Blame the measuring stick. Oh, better yet, ask for new programs, grants, funds and bureaucracy. That will be next. As it is these failures in public service are now asking that various school districts be able to set non-standard measuring sticks. Translation: if they can't pass the state test allow the districts to dumb down the test that will ask students to identify shapes, colors, letters and numbers so they can watch Sesame Street when they aren't educated enough to get a job let alone technical school, Community or Junior College.

Hey, it's wonderful that kids in California know Heather has two mommies. It's fantastic that they can question non-PC aspects of American and Western history. Isn't it just fantastic that they can now question why terrorists hate us? It's just too bad that one in five can't do long division, identify pi or even read well enough to comprehend an employee handbook.

That's liberalism for you. The outcome is 180 degrees different from its stated intent.
 
"Teachers, according to the report, said that many students arrive unprepared and unmotivated for their high school courses and that their grades often reflect poor attendance and low parental involvement."

"Among its findings: 63% of African Americans and 68% of Latinos in the class of 2006 have passed both parts of the exam.

By comparison, 89% of Asians and 90% of whites have passed."

So, given the racial/ethnic divide in passing percentages, would you like to continue to assail liberal policies? Or, perhaps you would like to say that this is concrete evidence of the intellectual inferiority of particular minority groups (blacks and hispanics), relative to the intellectual superiority of others (asians and whites)?

Furthermore, 35% of special education students have passed this exam. Given the disparities involved (not only in the test, but in the type of education - for instance, attention given to individuals, which is certainly higher for the special education students), shall you continue to say that it's nothing more than liberal policies becoming self-fulfilling prophecies?

The seeing-eye glass you use to interpret the news is disturbing, if only for the fact that you seem to avoid (or merely can't comprehend) the class implications in the racial disparities in passing/failure rates. This allows you to sidestep a major matter regarding the variation in these exams. There's simply too much going on here to lay the blame on your liberal conspiracies.

Perhaps you could postulate as to how schools run for profit would eliminate the racial/class disparities in passing?
 
For high school, if you go through all the courses and pass, then you should graduate.

A high school diploma is such a basic requirement in todays job market, and most of those jobs requiring one don't assume certain knowledge in a particular area like they would with a college degree. Let college be where you separate the strong from the weak.

Another issue is that, at least with the mcas (a similar test in massachusetts needed to graduate), private school kids don't have to take it, or any other

Though, in my state, one of the issues is some teachers can't even pass the test. I'm not sure how it compares in difficulty to the one in california.

It's just too bad that one in five can't do long division, identify pi or even read well enough to comprehend an employee handbook.

I got a 600 on my math sat's the second time I took them (I suck at math, and somehow my score jumped from 460-500 to 600 even though I didn't take a senior math), and I can't do long division at the moment. I'd need someone to reteach me, something that was done a few times in high school. But the math test is more than just long division (something I learned in elementary school), and I doubt that failing that test means you can't read an employee handbook.
 
Hey, it's wonderful that kids in California know Heather has two mommies. It's fantastic that they can question non-PC aspects of American and Western history. Isn't it just fantastic that they can now question why terrorists hate us? It's just too bad that one in five can't do long division, identify pi or even read well enough to comprehend an employee handbook.

Let me get this straight - terrorists hate us because of our uneducated poplace and low test scores on literature/math/science?

The terrorists would like nothing better then to see us turn back the clock on literature/math/science and instead teach religous fundamentalist thinking - like "Lesbianism is an affront to morality" and "Creationist theory is science".

This is a failure of the school system, and the students need to be held to a standard. One thing that has always erked me is that 1/3 of the money is spent on special education students - that means that right off the bat you're spending a disproportionate amount on the worst performers. Also, it is so hard to expel a student, I mean I knew of one that gave a death threat to a teacher and he just got transferred to another school.

We need to get rid of the bad apples permanently - not transfer them to special ed. If kids act up in class, we need to get rid of them, throw them out in the streets they want to live in so much and not listen to charges of racism or put up with protesters. And then we need to reduce the costs of special ed - possibly teach them a trade right off the bat and get them out there working, instead of trying to get them to understand concepts they never will.
 
We need to get rid of the bad apples permanently - not transfer them to special ed. If kids act up in class, we need to get rid of them, throw them out in the streets they want to live in so much and not listen to charges of racism or put up with protesters. And then we need to reduce the costs of special ed - possibly teach them a trade right off the bat and get them out there working, instead of trying to get them to understand concepts they never will.

I'm not sure if you understand what special ed is. It is used mostly for kids with learning disabilities. Sometimes kids who act up should be in those classes but their issue is undiagnosed, for example they may be bipolar.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']I'm not sure if you understand what special ed is. It is used mostly for kids with learning disabilities. Sometimes kids who act up should be in those classes but their issue is undiagnosed, for example they may be bipolar.[/QUOTE]

Yes - I guess my point was that I know that in my old school system it was almost impossible to expel students because schools are so afraid of a lawsuit (especially if the offending student was a minority), so many times the disruptive students were simply transferred to special ed so that the regular classes could continue. It would always irk me to see foul-mouthed thiefs and vandals in the halls of my school when I knew that they did not deserve nor want to be there.

If a kid is mentally retarded, then we all need to suck it up and get him/her the job training that they need. But in that case the retarded kid only needs a few years so he/she can learn to swing a mop or greet people at walmart. We should not be coddling those who are disruptive or otherwise do not wish to take advantage of our free educational system, nor those who can't be bothered to learn the English language which is the official language of these United States.
 
[quote name='camoor']Yes - I guess my point was that I know that in my old school system it was almost impossible to expel students because schools are so afraid of a lawsuit (especially if the offending student was a minority), so many times the disruptive students were simply transferred to special ed so that the regular classes could continue. It would always irk me to see foul-mouthed thiefs and vandals in the halls of my school when I knew that they did not deserve nor want to be there.

If a kid is mentally retarded, then we all need to suck it up and get him/her the job training that they need. But in that case the retarded kid only needs a few years so he/she can learn to swing a mop or greet people at walmart. We should not be coddling those who are disruptive or otherwise do not wish to take advantage of our free educational system, nor those who can't be bothered to learn the English language which is the official language of these United States.[/QUOTE]


The reason it's hard to expel students is because you legally have to provide everyone with an education. Expelled students get home schooled, which costs more I would assume. And it isn't always difficult to get expelled. My cousin got expelled from a junior high in maine for having a supposed "hit list" that a kid claimed he saw (no teacher ever saw it). My cousin was one of the most popular kids in school too, so it wasn't like he was being abused by other kids. He loved it, he had a tutor come to his home every day, and then they just sent him to the neighboring school the next year.

Look at it this way, if you kick disruptive kids completely out of the education system you won't have to deal with them, for a while. They'll come back though, when they're adults and can't get a job because they have no diploma and end up stealing, selling crack etc. Cutting people off from education solves one issue but creates another, and it will severely hinder their ability to turn their life around when they're older, due to the difficulty in getting a decent job, reducing the chance that they actually will become productive citizens. And if not them, then you'll deal with their kids, because if the parents can't get anywhere in life, their kids are more likely to grow up in a bad environment without any of the advantages other parents can provide. Educating people isn't just about the benefit it has on them, it's about making them a benefit to society. If you punish someone by completely removing them from the education system, it is likely to cost the rest of us even more.

But being in special ed doesn't always mean your stupid, many have learning disabilities, that doesn't always mean they lack intelligence, just that different methods need to be used for them to learn. Another issue may be behavioral or severe physical disabilities. A major issue in these cases is when you have kids with normal, or above normal, intelligence who need the special ed courses, but the course material is usually far behind regular classes. Even retarded people can be intelligent, a family across the street used to have a retarted kid. You could clearly tell he was slow, but he was a mechanic (or whatever it's called) at the cycle loft (the place you go for expensive, top quality racing and mountain bikes, it was recently named on of the best in the country).

One of my cousins is bipolar, great kid and will do anything for you, but he lashes out due to his disorder. He even attacked his mother a couple months ago and had to be placed in a mental health hospital for a few weeks. He's not a bad kid, he doesn't intentionally harm people, but things get out of his control when he is upset. He's been on all sorts of medication, got thrown out of the regular school system, and has proved too difficult to handle for two schools set up specifically to deal with children with mental and behavioral problems. Quite often, kids who have issues aren't properly diagnosed, at least if it isn't over the top.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']The reason it's hard to expel students is because you legally have to provide everyone with an education. Expelled students get home schooled, which costs more I would assume. And it isn't always difficult to get expelled. My cousin got expelled from a junior high in maine for having a supposed "hit list" that a kid claimed he saw (no teacher ever saw it). My cousin was one of the most popular kids in school too, so it wasn't like he was being abused by other kids. He loved it, he had a tutor come to his home every day, and then they just sent him to the neighboring school the next year.
[/QUOTE]

This is exactly the waste that I don't want my tax dollars going to. Now - I don't think your cousin should be expelled because of a "hit list" that some student may or may not have seen - but no student deserves private tutoring because they were willfully disruptive (what's next - federal grants to petty thieves?). We should have some sort of arbitration system, together with an ability to appeal, whereby if he is found to have threatened the lives of other classmates then he loses his educational priveledges and I don't have to support his education any more with my tax dollars.

[quote name='alonzomourning23']
Look at it this way, if you kick disruptive kids completely out of the education system you won't have to deal with them, for a while. They'll come back though, when they're adults and can't get a job because they have no diploma and end up stealing, selling crack etc. Cutting people off from education solves one issue but creates another, and it will severely hinder their ability to turn their life around when they're older, due to the difficulty in getting a decent job, reducing the chance that they actually will become productive citizens. And if not them, then you'll deal with their kids, because if the parents can't get anywhere in life, their kids are more likely to grow up in a bad environment without any of the advantages other parents can provide. Educating people isn't just about the benefit it has on them, it's about making them a benefit to society. If you punish someone by completely removing them from the education system, it is likely to cost the rest of us even more.[/QUOTE]

You're assuming that the cost of private tutoring the disruptive kid, or leaving him in with others to disrupt their learning, is less then just getting rid of the problem. There is a limited amount of money, and I'd rather have 11 kids in a focused learning enviornment and one screw-up left to his own devices then 12 kids who can't learn anything because the class bully keeps causing a disruption. I'm talking about bullies/vandals/criminals and not kids with REAL psyche problems (and I really take issue with the "ritalin generation" psychiatrists who think every disruptive kid is a psyche issue).

[quote name='alonzomourning23']
But being in special ed doesn't always mean your stupid, many have learning disabilities, that doesn't always mean they lack intelligence, just that different methods need to be used for them to learn. Another issue may be behavioral or severe physical disabilities. A major issue in these cases is when you have kids with normal, or above normal, intelligence who need the special ed courses, but the course material is usually far behind regular classes. Even retarded people can be intelligent, a family across the street used to have a retarted kid. You could clearly tell he was slow, but he was a mechanic (or whatever it's called) at the cycle loft (the place you go for expensive, top quality racing and mountain bikes, it was recently named on of the best in the country).

One of my cousins is bipolar, great kid and will do anything for you, but he lashes out due to his disorder. He even attacked his mother a couple months ago and had to be placed in a mental health hospital for a few weeks. He's not a bad kid, he doesn't intentionally harm people, but things get out of his control when he is upset. He's been on all sorts of medication, got thrown out of the regular school system, and has proved too difficult to handle for two schools set up specifically to deal with children with mental and behavioral problems. Quite often, kids who have issues aren't properly diagnosed, at least if it isn't over the top.[/QUOTE]

Training slow people to work in mechanical trades is an effort that I certainly applaud.

That's a sad story about your cousin with behavioral problems but I think the system worked properly. It sounds like he was given three shots by the educational system and 2 special needs offshoots, and hospitalization was the only answer in the end.
 
[quote name='camoor']This is exactly the waste that I don't want my tax dollars going to. Now - I don't think your cousin should be expelled because of a "hit list" that some student may or may not have seen - but no student deserves private tutoring because they were willfully disruptive (what's next - federal grants to petty thieves?). We should have some sort of arbitration system, together with an ability to appeal, whereby if he is found to have threatened the lives of other classmates then he loses his educational priveledges and I don't have to support his education any more with my tax dollars.[/quote]

So what's your solution to a 13 or 14 year old who now cannot enter into public education and, in all likelihood, cannot enter into private schools with stricter regulations? Don't they become a greater drain on society if they are on welfare, jailed etc. than if they got a tutor?

You're assuming that the cost of private tutoring the disruptive kid, or leaving him in with others to disrupt their learning, is less then just getting rid of the problem. There is a limited amount of money, and I'd rather have 11 kids in a focused learning enviornment and one screw-up left to his own devices then 12 kids who can't learn anything because the class bully keeps causing a disruption. I'm talking about bullies/vandals/criminals and not kids with REAL psyche problems (and I really take issue with the "ritalin generation" psychiatrists who think every disruptive kid is a psyche issue).

I have an issue with psychiatrists over prescribing medication, as it is often given to kids who can do without it and its side effects, or, like you said, to kids who don't have a medical issue. There is a debate over whether issues are overdiagnosed or underdiagnosed, I tend to think they are simply not properly diagnosed. Medicine is often overprescribed, but many issues that should be treated are not even discovered or they're ignored. Mental health problems are normal, it is not some wacko group or always obvious to everyone.

But the issue is whether the 11 kids will really improve with the removal of the 1 kid, it's unlikely. A kid in my private high school got expelled once. He was at a dance at our school, a kid from another school spit on his friend, so he beat him up and broke his nose. That kids in college now. He wasn't expelled for disrupting others learning (class clowns, not usually the center of expulsion threats, do more to disrupt the class), and if he had been totally removed from school, then that would likely have been a defining moment in his life, putting him at greater risk of being a drain on society as he grew older. If someone is deemed a real danger, bully etc. they should be taken out and put into the appropriate facilities, I have no issue with that. But even juvie understands the importance of education as a means of turning troubled kids into productive adults, not giving them that removes their best chance of not becomine a social parasite as an adult.

Training slow people to work in mechanical trades is an effort that I certainly applaud.

He learned how to do it himself, he used to take apart, build, fix, put together etc. bikes on his own all the time, either his own, neighbors kids or beaten up ones he'd occasionally find. Someone suggested that he should apply for a job at a bike shop, he did and he was hired. I'm not sure what he did before that, if anything. He obviously had some training there, but not what you'd think of when someone mentions training for "special" people.

That's a sad story about your cousin with behavioral problems but I think the system worked properly. It sounds like he was given three shots by the educational system and 2 special needs offshoots, and hospitalization was the only answer in the end.

It wasn't full hospitalization, it was treatment for a few weeks and then he left. Keith (my cousin) is now in what is similar to a boarding school (except for children with similar issues) and he loves it. He prefers to be there than home, which is currently a mess. Though behavioral problems run in that side of the family. His grandmother has 3 kids from the same father (very abusive, pulled a gun on her, may have had an undiagnosed problem), the son has learning disabilities (forget what it was), 1 of her daughters is bipolar, the other is keiths mother, probably bipolar (undiagnosed, has always had anger problems, but she is becoming more and more erratic in behavior, randomly lashes out with little provocation etc.) Of the 6 kids the 2 daughters have, 3 are diagnosed as bipolar, a fourth is being watched. Keith is the only one who needs extra attention (outside of medication) at this point.

Basically, he was told to leave public school, then had to leave another, and he left the 3rd one when he attacked his mother (she had just kicked out a man she lived with for 10 years, who keith incorrectly believes is his father, and is now dating two different men, as well as being less tolerant of him, all this may have made it worse). Failure to treat diagnosed behavioral issues is an indication of the limits of our pharmaceutical, biological and psychological knowledge, and is even worse when considering what happens to many of these otherwise normal people when they get older.
 
[quote name='evanft']So, having tolerance for gays, and being open to multiple views on history, hurts math scores?[/QUOTE]

I think it means that tolerance is unimportant and not worth teaching.
 
This is just too comical. FFS, getting a high school diploma is something that anyone can nearly sleepwalk through. If kids aren't capable of such a menial task, line them up and shoot every last one of them. The cost of a bullet is nothing compared to the resources these asshats will eventually drain from society.
 
[quote name='Nogib']This is just too comical. FFS, getting a high school diploma is something that anyone can nearly sleepwalk through. If kids aren't capable of such a menial task, line them up and shoot every last one of them. The cost of a bullet is nothing compared to the resources these asshats will eventually drain from society.[/QUOTE]

The tests can be difficult, though I don't have first hand experience. In massachusetts, the first time the tests were given to teachers many failed. Students with B averages are sometimes failing. This has become such an issue that mayor menino (of boston) requested, and recieved, funding to have free summer review classes for those who needed it. You can also do review online for free. The state has put aside large amount of funding to educate children to take the test. Some schools are planning on giving out "local diplomas" or "certificate of attendance" to those who fail the test. This has been denounced as illegal by the state, but some new england community colleges are stating that they will accept them.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']So what's your solution to a 13 or 14 year old who now cannot enter into public education and, in all likelihood, cannot enter into private schools with stricter regulations? Don't they become a greater drain on society if they are on welfare, jailed etc. than if they got a tutor?[/QUOTE]

I mostly agree with the rest of your post, I was just saying that your cousin should have been outright expelled if found guilty, or let back into the school system pending further evidence. I am not going to appove my tax dollars being spent on private tutors for would-be serial killers.

I also still support throwing out the children who continually disrupt the class, whether they be "class clowns" or bullies. Giving teachers the right to grant suspensions on the spot (which would be immediately enforced but subject to appeal) would also be a step in the right direction.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']I think it means that tolerance is unimportant and not worth teaching.[/QUOTE]

Tolerance is not worth teaching at the expense of basic education.

That's it, bottom line.

I didn't even address the writing ability that young adults/kids lack. I have a family friend that teaches at Pennsylvania a cousin who teaches at the University of Maryland and his wife teaches at American (Both of them previously taught at the Michigan and Princeton at one point). The one common thing they all say about incoming freshman is their writing and research abilities are abysmal.

It's not just spelling and syntax but even the ability to navigate a library and do real research from books. So many papers are cut and pasted from various websites and include individual pages/writings, Wikipedia, peridoic articles etc. The synatax from such "research" and the writing styles are all over the map and easy to spot. Of course the information is never correctly sourced or footnoted and included as quotes. It's all presented as original writings.

Then of course these kids go ballistic when confronted. Unfortunately the don't realize there are numerous plagarism programs and you can cut and paste phrases into Google to return sources. All three of them have brought up numerous undergrads on academic fraud issues and several have been put on probation or expelled.

That's a problem. That's the fault of the public schools failing to do basic work. I can't tell you how many times, 3 minimum, where we were taken to the school library and taught the Dewey Decimal System, how to use the card catalog etc. They don't teach that anymore. Forget the fact that there are computers to look up topics and books this is basic academic research ability.

I honestly can't believe the horror stories I hear from friends and family aren't reported. Well, actually I can. Educators as a bunch will never criticize one another in public and the media would never report how poorly public schools perform. When it comes to academic standards I am honestly shocked at what is now accepted as "good" academic work compared to just 15 years ago.

There's no way in hell I would ever send my kid(s) to a public school.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I didn't even address the writing ability that young adults/kids lack. I have a family friend that teaches at Pennsylvania a cousin who teaches at the University of Maryland and his wife teaches at American (Both of them previously taught at the Michigan and Princeton at one point). The one common thing they all say about incoming freshman is their writing and research abilities are abysmal.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with PAD here. I've had to read and edit other students' writings over the years and most of it seemed like it was written by an autisitic shrew.

[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']It's not just spelling and syntax but even the ability to navigate a library and do real research from books. So many papers are cut and pasted from various websites and include individual pages/writings, Wikipedia, peridoic articles etc. The synatax from such "research" and the writing styles are all over the map and easy to spot. Of course the information is never correctly sourced or footnoted and included as quotes. It's all presented as original writings.[/QUOTE]

I think that has more to do with laziness that anything else. Using a computer to find information is easier, quicker, and more convenient than using books.

[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Then of course these kids go ballistic when confronted. Unfortunately the don't realize there are numerous plagarism programs and you can cut and paste phrases into Google to return sources. All three of them have brought up numerous undergrads on academic fraud issues and several have been put on probation or expelled.[/quote]

If I may: pwned.

[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']That's a problem. That's the fault of the public schools failing to do basic work. I can't tell you how many times, 3 minimum, where we were taken to the school library and taught the Dewey Decimal System, how to use the card catalog etc. They don't teach that anymore. Forget the fact that there are computers to look up topics and books this is basic academic research ability.[/quote]

Well, my school libraries were horrid and were completely useless for research. My public library was pretty horrible as well. The university I go to, however, has a number of pretty big libraries, but they use an online system for looking things up.

[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I honestly can't believe the horror stories I hear from friends and family aren't reported. Well, actually I can. Educators as a bunch will never criticize one another in public and the media would never report how poorly public schools perform. When it comes to academic standards I am honestly shocked at what is now accepted as "good" academic work compared to just 15 years ago.[/quote]

In this case, I think better teachers, less federal control, less extra bullshit, and better resources could help turn that around.

[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']There's no way in hell I would ever send my kid(s) to a public school.[/quote]

I would have gone to a private school if it wasn't for a few things:

1. No local nonreligious private schools.
2. Couldn't afford it.
3. Even if there were some sort of voucher program, I couldn't exactly say my schools were failing me, as I graduated salutatorian and had exceedingly high test scores.

Meh, though. I still got a full-ride scholarship, so what do I care? :p
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I have a family friend that teaches at Pennsylvania a cousin who teaches at the University of Maryland[/QUOTE]

Who and what subject? I'm going to take it next semester just so we can talk about you.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Tolerance is not worth teaching at the expense of basic education.

That's it, bottom line.

I didn't even address the writing ability that young adults/kids lack. I have a family friend that teaches at Pennsylvania a cousin who teaches at the University of Maryland and his wife teaches at American (Both of them previously taught at the Michigan and Princeton at one point). The one common thing they all say about incoming freshman is their writing and research abilities are abysmal.

It's not just spelling and syntax but even the ability to navigate a library and do real research from books. So many papers are cut and pasted from various websites and include individual pages/writings, Wikipedia, peridoic articles etc. The synatax from such "research" and the writing styles are all over the map and easy to spot. Of course the information is never correctly sourced or footnoted and included as quotes. It's all presented as original writings.

Then of course these kids go ballistic when confronted. Unfortunately the don't realize there are numerous plagarism programs and you can cut and paste phrases into Google to return sources. All three of them have brought up numerous undergrads on academic fraud issues and several have been put on probation or expelled.

That's a problem. That's the fault of the public schools failing to do basic work. I can't tell you how many times, 3 minimum, where we were taken to the school library and taught the Dewey Decimal System, how to use the card catalog etc. They don't teach that anymore. Forget the fact that there are computers to look up topics and books this is basic academic research ability.

I honestly can't believe the horror stories I hear from friends and family aren't reported. Well, actually I can. Educators as a bunch will never criticize one another in public and the media would never report how poorly public schools perform. When it comes to academic standards I am honestly shocked at what is now accepted as "good" academic work compared to just 15 years ago.

There's no way in hell I would ever send my kid(s) to a public school.[/QUOTE]

What does this have to do with teaching tolerance? How much time is taken out of math or english to teach high schoolers about gay marriage? Zero. Maybe some schools give 1st graders a story about 2 mommies, but then they would proceed to deal with it like any other story. My private school made you take a religion class, there was far more ethics teaching in my school than in public school due to that course. The only other time acceptance is taught would possibly be assemblies.

And, besides, tolerance is important to the learning environment. If a gay kid has to walk through the halls everyday afraid of being attacked or humiliated, that is going to effect his ability to learn in that environment.
 
[quote name='evanft']Well, it's his fault for being gay![/QUOTE]

It's unfortunate that PAD's discourse has become so pitiful; when he begins suggesting that such liberal conspiracies (including having respect for your fellow humans, and learning to question the assumed socially-created hegemony of certain lifestyles) come at the expense of math class.

PAD still hasn't addressed the racial disparities; a guest on Lou Dobbs yesterday pointed out these poor test results, and they also pointed out something this article did NOT say: that 50% of black and hispanic students dropped out of high school. So, the poor numbers of black and hispanics passing the evaluation exams does not include half of all black and hispanic students (since they do not finish).

So, what do you have to say about the racial discrepancies? What the fuck does liberalism have to do with THAT?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']It's unfortunate that PAD's discourse has become so pitiful; when he begins suggesting that such liberal conspiracies (including having respect for your fellow humans, and learning to question the assumed socially-created hegemony of certain lifestyles) come at the expense of math class.

PAD still hasn't addressed the racial disparities; a guest on Lou Dobbs yesterday pointed out these poor test results, and they also pointed out something this article did NOT say: that 50% of black and hispanic students dropped out of high school. So, the poor numbers of black and hispanics passing the evaluation exams does not include half of all black and hispanic students (since they do not finish).

So, what do you have to say about the racial discrepancies? What the fuck does liberalism have to do with THAT?[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure about in california, but in MA the mcas has been linked to higher dropouts rates. Introduction of similar test graduate requirements have been correlated with higher dropout rates in other states.
 
The racial disparites are easy to address.

Blacks, single biggest issue? Illegitimacy. 65-70% of blacks are affected by this. Link You simply cannot fully develop as a group with that kind of percentage in single parents. Yes, there are good single moms. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule. However this is single handedly the biggest factor IMHO.

Hispanics? English as a second language, biggest issue.
 
And of course, what could fix the illegitimacy issue? Easier/cheaper access to birth control, of course.

English as a second language? Put troops at the border to keep anyone from sneaking over illegaly.

I just solved the problems. I rock.
 
[quote name='evanft']English as a second language? Put troops at the border to keep anyone from sneaking over illegaly.[/QUOTE]

But then who is going to search for fictitious WMDs and force democracy and freedom on people who don't want it?
 
bread's done
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