Apparently $5 a gallon gas will be good for us according to this article...

Sounds like the same specious reasoning that leads nimrods to think that tax breaks for the rich are a good idea, trickle-down ecomonics work, or global warming is a myth.

Besides gas prices are decided upon by OPEC, they don't want the price to go too high because then demand for alternatives will really kick in.
 
well there can be positive side effects to high gas prices... people buy more fuel efficient cars, alternative energy vehicles are more cost effective, if people drive less and/or speed less, then there's likely to be less accidents/deaths.
 
First off you wont stop people from speeding. People are going to still speed and drive like assholes. Only way your going to stop that is if there was more and harder enforcement from cops.

Second off, $5 a gallon will make people drive less but it will also hurt businesses everywhere. Who is gonna want to drive anywhere if they are having to spend $5 a gallon on gas?

I think the real problem here is that we probably can make the technology to have alternative fueled cars but somewhere down the chain, someone is making too much money off oil and saying fuck that. I don't know who, and where but I am sure that we could make an alternative fueled car but no one is stepping forth so we are getting fucked over.
 
Yeah, high gas prices are not good for the economy.

Sure, they change driving habits (consolidate trips, move closer to work etc), help spur sales of fuel efficient cars etc.

But they hurt business as people have less money to spend on things like eating out etc., and are less likely to drive places outside of their normal commute etc.

And it's definitely not good for the average person, as it really fucks with the working class people who already struggle to make ends already and who have to drive to work as they're in rural areas with no public transit options etc.

And Sir_Fragalot is right that over the years alternative energy research has been hampered by oil companies, coal companies etc. doing things like paying people to stop doing research on them and so on.

Though that should be less and less of an issue as we (hopefully) start seeing more federal funding for alternative energy research.
 
Yeah, high gas prices are not good for the economy.

Sure, they change driving habits (consolidate trips, move closer to work etc), help spur sales of fuel efficient cars etc.

But they hurt business as people have less money to spend on things like eating out etc., and are less likely to drive places outside of their normal commute etc.

And it's definitely not good for the average person, as it really fucks with the working class people who already struggle to make ends already and who have to drive to work as they're in rural areas with no public transit options etc.

And Sir_Fragalot is right that over the years alternative energy research has been hampered by oil companies, coal companies etc. doing things like paying people to stop doing research on them and so on.

Though that should be less and less of an issue as we (hopefully) start seeing more federal funding for alternative energy research.
 
I see no way for America to get rid of it's suburb culture at this point. It would be great if we could walk to stores, restaurants, and take the train to work but America wants big cars, big home lots, and big sprawling metroplexes.
 
To be fair, American is a big country and is just too spread out to ever be as public transit dominated as Europe which is smaller and more concentrated around cities.

That said, public transit could at least be improved a great deal in metro areas in the US (some are great, many are terrible) and adding high speed trains between cities in the same region.

I can't talk much though, I live in a city and could take the subway to work, but don't because it takes at least an hour more round trip than driving with the walking and waiting on the train etc.

But there aren't many options for not having a car in Atlanta though since it's a big, spread out city so there's really no where you can live and be able to walk everywhere you need, and the subway sucks because it's just a plus sign through the city so there are HUGE chunks of the city you can't get to on it. Buses are an option I guess, but they run very infrequently relative to other cities and keep having more and more routes cut. So if you don't have a car you'd spend a lot of money on taxis or always be bumming rides to the grocery store from friends etc.

I at least live only 3 miles from work and 1-3 miles from the places I shop, so I use a pretty minimal amount of gas.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I see no way for America to get rid of it's suburb culture at this point. It would be great if we could walk to stores, restaurants, and take the train to work but America wants big cars, big home lots, and big sprawling metroplexes.[/QUOTE]

Never say never.

I've seen a partial revitalization of DC, a city so corrupt that I never though it would get gentrified (I'm talking local city politics, not federal govt)

I've also seen superb city planning in the edge cities right outside DC and DC metro is running at capacity. If you plan it right, most people will ditch the traffic jams for mass transit.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I see no way for America to get rid of it's suburb culture at this point. It would be great if we could walk to stores, restaurants, and take the train to work but America wants big cars, big home lots, and big sprawling metroplexes.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I am convinced that humanity is completely reliant on science to keep us from spiraling out of control at this point. People expect ever increasing amounts of consumption and are becoming increasingly ignorant. At this point we are either going to continue polluting the planet and dwindling our options till shit goes off the tracks, or science is going to progress at an amazingly fast speed and save us all.

Seems a pessimistic view to most, but I think its just being realistic. Sad that it has come to the point where I feel like my future banks on science because of other peoples stupid consumption problems.
 
[quote name='camoor']Never say never.

I've seen a partial revitalization of DC, a city so corrupt that I never though it would get gentrified (I'm talking local city politics, not federal govt)

I've also seen superb city planning in the edge cities right outside DC and DC metro is running at capacity. If you plan it right, most people will ditch the traffic jams for mass transit.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I miss the DC Metro. That's a fantastic subway system and you can get most anywhere worth going in DC on it--with Georgetown being a notable exception (closest stop is about a mile away in Va. across the river, though it is walkable if weather is nice).

The Atlanta MARTA system is a joke for the reason I outlined above. It's more designed to get people from the suburbs to the center of the city, rather than for people to use it to get around the city. I pretty much only use it when going the Airport or to an event at the Georgia Dome.
 
[quote name='camoor']

Besides gas prices are decided upon by OPEC, they don't want the price to go too high because then demand for alternatives will really kick in.[/QUOTE]

Gas prices are controlled by the speculating assholes on Wall Street, not OPEC.

Also the fact that someone was actually paid to write that article is fucking stupid. They have no grasp on anything and are just throwing shit on a wall to get attention. They have no real facts and are blindly speculating. The second that she mentioned the idea of domestic drilling reducing costs she showed how big of an idiot she is.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Gas prices are controlled by the speculating assholes on Wall Street, not OPEC.

Also the fact that someone was actually paid to write that article is fucking stupid. They have no grasp on anything and are just throwing shit on a wall to get attention. They have no real facts and are blindly speculating. The second that she mentioned the idea of domestic drilling reducing costs she showed how big of an idiot she is.[/QUOTE]
Can't we just have a group hug and say that they're colluding with eachother?:lol:
 
[quote name='Sir_Fragalot']First off you wont stop people from speeding. People are going to still speed and drive like assholes. Only way your going to stop that is if there was more and harder enforcement from cops.

Second off, $5 a gallon will make people drive less but it will also hurt businesses everywhere. Who is gonna want to drive anywhere if they are having to spend $5 a gallon on gas?

I think the real problem here is that we probably can make the technology to have alternative fueled cars but somewhere down the chain, someone is making too much money off oil and saying fuck that. I don't know who, and where but I am sure that we could make an alternative fueled car but no one is stepping forth so we are getting fucked over.[/QUOTE]
What about biodiesel?
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']What about biodiesel?[/QUOTE]
Ah forgot about biodiesel. Still though I haven't really seen a huge biodiesel push.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Can't we just have a group hug and say that they're colluding with eachother?:lol:[/QUOTE]


I am not denying that OPEC doesn't have an impact on oil prices, but the spike in commodities is largely driven by speculation. Speculation allowed by deregulation within the last twenty years. I just love it when politicians think that they are smarter than people who lived through the worst depression in this nations history.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']I am not denying that OPEC doesn't have an impact on oil prices, but the spike in commodities is largely driven by speculation. Speculation allowed by deregulation within the last twenty years. I just love it when politicians think that they are smarter than people who lived through the worst depression in this nations history.[/QUOTE]

In the sense that the price is kept just below the threshold for alternative energy sources becoming profitable, the price of oil is controlled by OPEC.

Speculators are short-term thinkers who only care about this quarter's profits, they have no grand long-term vision. They are simply parasites who feed off the hard work of others, as opposed to OPEC which is more akin to a villanous group of evil geniuses from a Bond movie (minus the genius part)
 
[quote name='camoor']In the sense that the price is kept just below the threshold for alternative energy sources becoming profitable, the price of oil is controlled by OPEC.

Speculators are short-term thinkers who only care about this quarter's profits, they have no grand long-term vision. They are simply parasites who feed off the hard work of others, as opposed to OPEC which is more akin to a villanous group of evil geniuses from a Bond movie (minus the genius part)[/QUOTE]

In 2008 the worlds oil reserves were filled beyond the max and yet we still were paying over four dollars a gallon. People blamed it on OPEC, but they had produced more than enough product to supply everyone and yet oil was still ridiculously high.

Griftopia is a really good and easy read that delves into the whole meltdown that happened and how banks fucked up the commodities market (specifically goldman).
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']In 2008 the worlds oil reserves were filled beyond the max and yet we still were paying over four dollars a gallon. People blamed it on OPEC, but they had produced more than enough product to supply everyone and yet oil was still ridiculously high.

Griftopia is a really good and easy read that delves into the whole meltdown that happened and how banks fucked up the commodities market (specifically goldman).[/QUOTE]
Taibbi fan eh?:lol:

I prefer to read stuff that makes me angry in small doses. His RS articles do just that. Reading Griftopia might give me an aneurysm...LOLZ.:cry:
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Joe Schmoe needs to buy more cars and less SUVs and get his fast ass up and walking a bit more anyways.[/QUOTE]

That asinine thinking really. My dad bought a new honda crv, its a suv and gets better gas mileage than my toyota corolla thats only 4 years old. How exactly is joe if he is having issues just paying that much for gas just go out and buy a new vehicle?

Walking more to where? To work everyday you mean? So if he has a 20 minute drive to work what he is supposed to get 3 hours earlier at like 2am so he can walk it everyday? What about all the millions of people who get on the highway to go to work? They going to walk on the highway?

Let me guess when you see someone you think is heavy your reaction is to say "Hey put down the fork" or maybe when you pass a bum living under a bridge you think "Get a job".
 
[quote name='gargus']That asinine thinking really. My dad bought a new honda crv, its a suv and gets better gas mileage than my toyota corolla thats only 4 years old. How exactly is joe if he is having issues just paying that much for gas just go out and buy a new vehicle?

Walking more to where? To work everyday you mean? So if he has a 20 minute drive to work what he is supposed to get 3 hours earlier at like 2am so he can walk it everyday? What about all the millions of people who get on the highway to go to work? They going to walk on the highway?

Let me guess when you see someone you think is heavy your reaction is to say "Hey put down the fork" or maybe when you pass a bum living under a bridge you think "Get a job".[/QUOTE]

IIRC MSI doesn't have a job
 
[quote name='gargus']That asinine thinking really. My dad bought a new honda crv, its a suv and gets better gas mileage than my toyota corolla thats only 4 years old. How exactly is joe if he is having issues just paying that much for gas just go out and buy a new vehicle?

Walking more to where? To work everyday you mean? So if he has a 20 minute drive to work what he is supposed to get 3 hours earlier at like 2am so he can walk it everyday? What about all the millions of people who get on the highway to go to work? They going to walk on the highway?

Let me guess when you see someone you think is heavy your reaction is to say "Hey put down the fork" or maybe when you pass a bum living under a bridge you think "Get a job".[/QUOTE]

Just because your dad is a Joe and in that situation does not mean that there are others who are Joes and are not. Also just because your dad cant change those 2 things does not mean there are not tons of others he could possibly change. People refuse to make even the smallest changes to save money or energy. For example my neighbor is an average "joe" and he was bitching to me about gas prices the other day...but he lives within 15 mins and could ride his bike within about 20-25 mins. He also complained to me about energy prices and that he was paying almost $200 a month for electricity but yet whenever I suggested he start using extensions for his electronics that he could flip off and on when not in use he first poo pooed the idea because it would not save energy and then after I told him we pay $30-$50 a month he poo pooed it because it would take too much work.....seriously too much work to plug or unplug things when not in use.

Does your dad vote? Does your dad educate himself before voting? Has he ever protested? How about wrote his Senator? Does he keep his hot water heater on blast like most Americans all the time?

Look the point is that there are MANY things we can do to make a difference...but Americans are not willing to do any of them. When you ask Americans what they want to see cut to bring down the debt they always say things that dont effect them like foreign aid. When you then go on and explain to them how the budget works they do not want taxes raised but they dont want to cut any of the big 3 which are running up our debt(medicare, social security and defense). This is the perfect example of how Joe schmoe thinks about things, through an ignorant point of view where things magically will get better with no sacrifice on his part.

I think that the average Joe is ever more under pressure and I support policies to give him a break. It does not mean though that I think he has done anything personally to deserve a break since 95/100 people I meet dont do shit to change their lot in life because as I said before people refuse to sacrifice.

@camoor - What does me working or not working have to do with anything? Iv had to struggle in my life more then most and lived at the bottom. I have also gone out of my way to read and educate myself on the policies that effect me. Why should not working have anything to do with anything? End of the month I still have to pay my bills and take care of my family like anyone else and I have to do it on a smaller budget. Unlike most though I have learnt as I went on and we have sacrificed like crazy. Unlike most we have waited to have kids(which is REALLY hard to do)my wife is about to finish her second degree and go back for her masters and we live very minimally so we can pay double our mortgage to get ahead faster. When Joe Schmoe starts working this hard then he can talk shit about me not having a job.
 
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[quote name='MSI Magus']@camoor - What does me working or not working have to do with anything? Iv had to struggle in my life more then most and lived at the bottom. I have also gone out of my way to read and educate myself on the policies that effect me. Why should not working have anything to do with anything? End of the month I still have to pay my bills and take care of my family like anyone else and I have to do it on a smaller budget. Unlike most though I have learnt as I went on and we have sacrificed like crazy. Unlike most we have waited to have kids(which is REALLY hard to do)my wife is about to finish her second degree and go back for her masters and we live very minimally so we can pay double our mortgage to get ahead faster. When Joe Schmoe starts working this hard then he can talk shit about me not having a job.[/QUOTE]

Are you French?
 
You're not working, so you can't complain about working hard.

You can complain about having a hard life and having to be frugal to get buy on your wife's small income since you're disabled for sure, but not about working hard when you aren't working.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']You're not working, so you can't complain about working hard.

You can complain about having a hard life and having to be frugal to get buy on your wife's small income since you're disabled for sure, but not about working hard when you aren't working.[/QUOTE]

So you are saying anyone that does not have a 9/5 job does not work? What if your a mother of 5? What if you run the after school program and train foster dogs? What if other then taking care of all household tasks you also take care of a neighborly senior? What about the person that does have a 9/5 but he is a lazy supervisor? Or the guy that has a 9/5 but is a musician that spends a lot of his time just smoking weed and writing?

Look different people have different ways of living and spend their time differently. Less you actually know someone you should shush. Besides this was never about if Americans or myself are working hard or not. The point was that people like to point to poor Joe Schmoe and make it sound like he has no hand in his own decline. Joe Schmoe can do a lot of things to better himself, he chooses not to.
 
Sure, but you don't have kids either. Nor have you given any indication of doing any kind of volunteer work etc.

Besides, other people work full time and raise kids etc., so I don't think housewives/husbands who don't work have much room to bitch about "working hard" relative to people slaving away at a job and dealing with their kids on nights and weekends.

Sorry, I just can't take you seriously for complaining about working hard when you live off your girlfriend's wages. It's nearly as absurd a complain as Javery bitching about his barely getting buy on his $200K+ (or whatever) salary, just from the other end of the spectrum. Your life probably sucks, but not from working hard. Think of all the disabled people who can't find a partner to support them and get buy on nothing but their disability checks before whining about how hard you work.
 
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[quote name='MSI Magus']The point was that people like to point to poor Joe Schmoe and make it sound like he has no hand in his own decline. Joe Schmoe can do a lot of things to better himself, he chooses not to.[/QUOTE]

Careful now, you're treading "bootstrappin''" territory here. The general concept of "individual responsibility" tends to make a lot of enemies 'round these parts.
 
Heh yeah I know, no one likes the idea of personal responsibility anymore. Its easier to blame others for our problems. Frequently people see how I was raised or see how my mom is raising my youngest brother and then find out she was even worse with me and my other brother(who I might add is finally turning his life around after years of slinging pot)and their response is always that my mom fucked me up. They always say that and expect me to be horribly angry and start ranting. Truth is that my mom put me on a path, but I chose to walk it. Yes much of my life was out of my control, but I chose to go with that vs fighting against it.

Joe Schmoe is the same. Life and politicians have put him on a path. Joe could pick up the news paper and learn about his local politicians the policies that effect him. Joe could vote them out of office. Joe could make small changes in his lifestyle to earn extra money. But these are not things Joe wants to do. Its easier to point his finger and let society as a whole point the finger at government and corporations who ARE a big problem, but are hardly the only problem. So while I hate that gas prices are high and I hate that it effects those of us at the bottom/middle the most...I hate just as much that Joe Schmoe has spent the last 40ish years complaining about gas prices yet has never done a damn thing himself to fix it. Bitch when their high and become complacent when their low!
 
Edit - Actually, my apologies to IAmthecheapestgamer. I had typed up a big message to dmaul but ill just handle it elsewhere since it was going off topic.
 
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[quote name='MSI Magus']Heh yeah I know, no one likes the idea of personal responsibility anymore. Its easier to blame others for our problems. Frequently people see how I was raised or see how my mom is raising my youngest brother and then find out she was even worse with me and my other brother(who I might add is finally turning his life around after years of slinging pot)and their response is always that my mom fucked me up. They always say that and expect me to be horribly angry and start ranting. Truth is that my mom put me on a path, but I chose to walk it. Yes much of my life was out of my control, but I chose to go with that vs fighting against it.

Joe Schmoe is the same. Life and politicians have put him on a path. Joe could pick up the news paper and learn about his local politicians the policies that effect him. Joe could vote them out of office. Joe could make small changes in his lifestyle to earn extra money. But these are not things Joe wants to do. Its easier to point his finger and let society as a whole point the finger at government and corporations who ARE a big problem, but are hardly the only problem. So while I hate that gas prices are high and I hate that it effects those of us at the bottom/middle the most...I hate just as much that Joe Schmoe has spent the last 40ish years complaining about gas prices yet has never done a damn thing himself to fix it. Bitch when their high and become complacent when their low![/QUOTE]

You are the kind of person who gives social programs a bad name. You don't just bite the hand that feeds you, you chomp on that mother fucker.
 
[quote name='camoor']You are the kind of person who gives social programs a bad name. You don't just bite the hand that feeds you, you chomp on that mother fucker.[/QUOTE]

Where the heck did that come from? Unless I've missed something, Magus hasn't said anything about using any particular social programs for assistance - and how is it "biting the hand that feeds you" to talk about working hard to better one's self?
 
[quote name='depascal22']Because it sounds like Magus was on certain programs as a child. They put food in his belly.[/QUOTE]

Yes but I never said I would decrease any of those programs. I would actually increase the funding to most of the programs you are accusing me of being against. I personally am for a more socialist styled system where we are paying a much higher tax rate(think 50%)but in return all our safety social net programs are made public and help people far more then they do.

Just because I think Joe Schmoe has not done anything to help himself out does not mean that I think the social safety net should be cut out from underneath him. If you look I also say the politicians/goverment have created as much/more of Joes problem.

Again this just shows that the lefties of this board tend to be just as hard lined and crazy as many on the right. Every time I say anything that even flirts with a hint of me holding a right wing view you guys go off the deep end. So just to make it as clear as possible. I think the goverment should take care of Joe Schmoe. I think we should have more unemployment benefits, goverment run health care and jobs programs. That said I am not so blind as to see that Joe does not give a shit about his own future. He blames goverment and he blames "the bums" till he becomes one and then comes with hand outstretched. I dont excuse Joe for being ignorant, I dont excuse him for not unplugging his electronics, buying a TV 10x bigger then he needs or for buying an SUV because it made Jill Schmoe feel safe. But I dont want him to fend for himself either, just accept responsibility when he puts his hand out for help(the same way I did).
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Yes but I never said I would decrease any of those programs. I would actually increase the funding to most of the programs you are accusing me of being against. I personally am for a more socialist styled system where we are paying a much higher tax rate(think 50%)but in return all our safety social net programs are made public and help people far more then they do.

Just because I think Joe Schmoe has not done anything to help himself out does not mean that I think the social safety net should be cut out from underneath him. If you look I also say the politicians/goverment have created as much/more of Joes problem.

Again this just shows that the lefties of this board tend to be just as hard lined and crazy as many on the right. Every time I say anything that even flirts with a hint of me holding a right wing view you guys go off the deep end. So just to make it as clear as possible. I think the goverment should take care of Joe Schmoe. I think we should have more unemployment benefits, goverment run health care and jobs programs. That said I am not so blind as to see that Joe does not give a shit about his own future. He blames goverment and he blames "the bums" till he becomes one and then comes with hand outstretched. I dont excuse Joe for being ignorant, I dont excuse him for not unplugging his electronics, buying a TV 10x bigger then he needs or for buying an SUV because it made Jill Schmoe feel safe. But I dont want him to fend for himself either, just accept responsibility when he puts his hand out for help(the same way I did).[/QUOTE]

Dude. I never said you were against them. I was just explaining to Uncle Bob.
 
My apologies then. Thought you were reacting like dmaul and camoor where because I dont work I cant understand what working is and because I was on the system for a few years I am not allowed to critic it. Again sorry for misunderstanding.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']My apologies then. Thought you were reacting like dmaul and camoor where because I dont work I cant understand what working is and because I was on the system for a few years I am not allowed to critic it. Again sorry for misunderstanding.[/QUOTE]

No worries. I was on food stamps myself. I also had a stretch where my family was living on one salary. I don't begrudge your sugar momma.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']we are paying a much higher tax rate(think 50%)but in return all our safety social net programs are made public and help people far more then they do.[/quote]

By "we" do you mean everyone? Or just the 50% that pay federal income taxes now?

I think the goverment taxpayer should take care of Joe Schmoe.
Click to expand...

ftfy.

But I dont want him to fend for himself either, just accept responsibility when he puts his hand out for help(the same way I did).
Click to expand...

This is where things go south though. I completely agree in that I'd be for government-provided minimum rations of food, for example. I'd prefer this program be shaped more after WIC, where individuals receive vouchers for a particular product/type of product - and the vouchers cannot be substituted, exchanged, etc. This would eliminate individuals from using their food stamp allotment to buy Mountain Dew cubes and Hot Pockets to feed their child for the month.

However, there'd be those who would complain that the program is too restrictive, doesn't offer enough variety, etc., etc.

And, likewise, I don't want Joe to fend for himself, but I do want him to be making an effort - if not at bettering himself, at bettering the community. This means working toward a job (more/some formal education? kicking the drug/alcohol habit?) or doing community service (doesn't take a genius to ladle soup at the homeless shelter).

Much like our strategies in Iraq and Afghanistan, our social programs have a very vaguely defined (if any) exit strategy.
 
That article got me angry but one thing in particular really was annoying to read

"Local businesses could profit. If you can't afford to drive out to Wal-Mart or Home Depot, you may be buying instead at the local supermarket or neighborhood hardware store. In addition, as the cost of transporting, say, grapes from Chile, goes out of sight, you may turn to regional farmers for your produce."

Not if the local businesses can't afford the price increases on merchandise because of the increase in fuel and the fuel surcharges the stores have to pay for delivery!
 
[quote name='YoshiFan1']Not if the local businesses can't afford the price increases on merchandise because of the increase in fuel and the fuel surcharges the stores have to pay for delivery![/QUOTE]

To an extent. But, of course, it's cheaper for an individual store to get a truck load of stuff from an hour away for 50 people shipped in than it is for 50 individuals to drive an hour away to get individual items.
 
The larger problem is that the "system" is set up for people to step on each other. I choose Wal-Mart over another store because I don't make enough money which in turn screws countless other people inside and outside the country.

Gas spiralling out of control isn't going to help us in the same way the economy hitting rock bottom didn't. All it did was make the card-shark switch up the three card monty.
 
[quote name='YoshiFan1']That article got me angry but one thing in particular really was annoying to read

"Local businesses could profit. If you can't afford to drive out to Wal-Mart or Home Depot, you may be buying instead at the local supermarket or neighborhood hardware store. In addition, as the cost of transporting, say, grapes from Chile, goes out of sight, you may turn to regional farmers for your produce."

Not if the local businesses can't afford the price increases on merchandise because of the increase in fuel and the fuel surcharges the stores have to pay for delivery![/QUOTE]

The other problem is that Wal-Marts and Home Depot/Lowe's etc. are generally just as close as the local stores. So if they can't afford to drive to them, most people don't have a closer, local option

Damn near every small town either has those stores or has them within 20-30 minutes these days. And big cities have everything nearby so distance is moot.

For instance, the small town (2010 census shows about 5,700 in the town, 24,000 in the county) I grew up in has a Wal-Mart and a Lowe's.

Since those two opened (Wal-mart was about 10 years ago, Lowe's probably 5 or so), the two hardware stores are out of business, and 2 of the 3 grocery stores have closed as well. So there's also a problem of lack of local options in rural areas especially.
 
Related:

Energy efficiency will not reduce energy usage. As we implement energy efficient devices, the cost of energy decreases, allowing other people/biz/markets to pick up the "savings" and use them.
The only way to reduce energy usage (read: gas) is to increase the price. Not saying that is good or bad, just saying that its often overlooked by the energy efficient tree hugger movement..
 
[quote name='tivo']Related:

Energy efficiency will not reduce energy usage. As we implement energy efficient devices, the cost of energy decreases, allowing other people/biz/markets to pick up the "savings" and use them.
The only way to reduce energy usage (read: gas) is to increase the price. Not saying that is good or bad, just saying that its often overlooked by the energy efficient tree hugger movement..[/QUOTE]

I don't know about that.

For example - if the energy consumption of my washer/dryer decreases, it's not like I'm going to start washing more clothes. Sure I might have more discretionary spending but that doesn't necessarily translate into increased energy usage.

Regardless of whether you're an altruistic tree-hugger or an anarcho-capitalist wingnut, making devices more energy efficient just makes sense.
 
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