Bush pushing to give President the power to use military as an American police force

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http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/04/bush.avianflu/index.html
The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 bans the military from participating in police-type activity on U.S. soil.
Bush began discussing the possibility of changing the law last month, in the aftermath of the government's sluggish response to civil unrest following Hurricane Katrina.

"I want there to be a robust discussion about the best way for the federal government, in certain extreme circumstances, to be able to rally assets for the good of the people," he told reporters September 26.

Gene Healy, a senior editor at the conservative Cato Institute, said Bush would risk undermining "a fundamental principle of American law" by tinkering with the act, which does not hinder the military's ability to respond to a crisis.

"What it does is set a high bar for the use of federal troops in a policing role," he wrote in a commentary on the group's Web site. "That reflects America's traditional distrust of using standing armies to enforce order at home, a distrust that's well-justified."

Healy said soldiers are not trained as police officers, and putting them in a civilian law enforcement role "can result in serious collateral damage to American life and liberty."
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From what I read of this Posse Comitatus act, the President can waive it in emergency situations. Seems to me that Bush is using the specter of avian flu in a bid to grab more power for the Presidency (the old trading fear-for-power game that his administration has just about perfected). Militarized, politically-loyal law enforcement getting it's orders from Our Leader on his say-so? No thanks.
 
"a fundamental principle of American law"

Shit, more like a fundamental principle of FREE NATIONS.

Well look at it this way, if Bush decides to set things up as a dictatorship, the republicans have always been very strong gun advocates so we can have another revolution! Yay, new vacation day!
 
Weren't the police federalized already? And isn't the national guard supposed to do this? And isn't the government not supposed to have a standing army?

And the emergency provision, isnt that Martial Law, which can already be instated in Federal/National disaster areas?

And I don't remember who said it, But "The police protect us against ourselves. The amry protect us against the enemy of the state. When the army becomes the police, the citizens become the enemy of the state" or something along the lines.
 
soon 'health emergencies' will start to be declared in various areas around the U.S. and the military will move in to take control under the guise of keeping everyone outside the hot zone safe from whatever outbreak is currently threatening....

even if this starts out with the best of intentions, soon areas that have no outbreak of disease - but ARE significant in a political and/or military sense - will be cordoned off under this set of new policies/laws.

the land of the free is about to succumb to this wave of totalitarianism the same way LA, MS and AL succumbed to Katrina.
 
[quote name='PKRipp3r']soon 'health emergencies' will start to be declared in various areas around the U.S. and the military will move in to take control under the guise of keeping everyone outside the hot zone safe from whatever outbreak is currently threatening....

even if this starts out with the best of intentions, soon areas that have no outbreak of disease - but ARE significant in a political and/or military sense - will be cordoned off under this set of new policies/laws.

the land of the free is about to succumb to this wave of totalitarianism the same way LA, MS and AL succumbed to Katrina.[/QUOTE]

Don't be such a predictable fear-monger. Although I strongly disagree with any use of the armed forces as police except in the direst emergency, our democracy is too ancient and strong to succumb very easily to such manipulations. Believe it.
 
[quote name='chaostic_2k1']Weren't the police federalized already? [/quote]
Nope. That's the FBI.
And isn't the national guard supposed to do this?
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But, they're weakend, many are overseas, or below strength
And isn't the government not supposed to have a standing army?
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What do you call the US Armed Forces? You know, Army, Navy Air Force, and all that.

And the emergency provision, isnt that Martial Law, which can already be instated in Federal/National disaster areas?

And I don't remember who said it, But "The police protect us against ourselves. The amry protect us against the enemy of the state. When the army becomes the police, the citizens become the enemy of the state" or something along the lines.
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It can be instated, but he's asking for above and beyond what the President is currently capable of. I hope he doesn't get it.

I like that quote, but it sounds kinda videogamey, who said it?
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Don't be such a predictable fear-monger. Although I strongly disagree with any use of the armed forces as police except in the direst emergency, our democracy is too ancient and strong to succumb very easily to such manipulations. Believe it.[/QUOTE]

It's funny, since he keeps saying america is, without question, the best country in the world that he would so easily predict its imminent downfall.
 
[quote name='Quillion']Nope. That's the FBI.

But, they're weakend, many are overseas, or below strength

What do you call the US Armed Forces? You know, Army, Navy Air Force, and all that.

It can be instated, but he's asking for above and beyond what the President is currently capable of. I hope he doesn't get it.

I like that quote, but it sounds kinda videogamey, who said it?[/QUOTE]

No, i heard something about the police or national guard being federalized after 9/11.

And i ask, supposed to not have a standing army. I know they do.

And I now remember where I got the quote. BATTLESTAR GALATICA!!! Commander Adama.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']It's funny, since he keeps saying america is, without question, the best country in the world that he would so easily predict its imminent downfall.[/QUOTE]

i fail to see how the two are connected

are you saying it's impossible for the greatest country in the world to fall on it's face and sputter out?

i beg to differ

america is 'teh own', but it won't be for long

this is clear
 
[quote name='PKRipp3r']i fail to see how the two are connected

are you saying it's impossible for the greatest country in the world to fall on it's face and sputter out?

i beg to differ

america is 'teh own', but it won't be for long

this is clear[/QUOTE]

No, but the impending doom doesn't seem to go along with your previous posts.
 
[quote name='Quillion']Nope. That's the FBI.
[/QUOTE]

Actually the FBI (along with the ATF, DEA, etc.) work purely as investigative agencies. They are NOT police agencies. There has not and, hopefully, will not be a federal police agency.

[quote name='chaostic_2k1']
No, i heard something about the police or national guard being federalized after 9/11.[/QUOTE]

The police and such, in an emergency situation (that's key), can give up their command rights to federal agencies to hel coordinate things, especially in a situation like 9/11. Perhaps that's what you were thinking of?
 
It's written in the constitution that soldiers can't be used as a police force, that law is unconstitutional (though if Miers gets in it could get passed in a 5-4 vote, because SOME people don't give a fuck about the constitution).
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Actually the FBI (along with the ATF, DEA, etc.) work purely as investigative agencies. They are NOT police agencies. There has not and, hopefully, will not be a federal police agency.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I was speeding along a federal highway once and a traffic cop who introduced himself as a federal police officer stopped me and gave me a ticket, which had to be answered in Alexandria federal court. There must be some sort of force that keeps order in federally owned nature preserves, performing art centers and highways.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Actually the FBI (along with the ATF, DEA, etc.) work purely as investigative agencies. They are NOT police agencies. There has not and, hopefully, will not be a federal police agency.[/QUOTE]

If the alphabets worked as purely investigative, then why can they conduct raids and arrest people?

The police and such, in an emergency situation (that's key), can give up their command rights to federal agencies to hel coordinate things, especially in a situation like 9/11. Perhaps that's what you were thinking of?
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Yep.
 
[quote name='Metal Boss']Americas like a 3rd world country now, unless you're rich.[/QUOTE]

Evidence? This should be interesting.
 
[quote name='chaostic_2k1']If the alphabets worked as purely investigative, then why can they conduct raids and arrest people?

[/QUOTE]

Conducting raids and arresting people are a part of investigations. The reason they are not considered police is because there is a distinction between investigative agencies and police agencies.

The "alphabets" (interesting way of putting it) have the ability to investigate but they do not patrol and/or have the duty of "keeping the peace".
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Evidence? This should be interesting.[/QUOTE]

actually i kind of agree

maybe not literally 'third world'

i'd much rather be homeless in santa monica than in darfur

but there IS a very steep drop off from upper-middle class to lower-middle class.

and it's getting steeper every day
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']No, but the impending doom doesn't seem to go along with your previous posts.[/QUOTE]

got me there

to be fair though, i was huffing glue when i posted that... full disclosure...
 
Interesting read on the Ebola strain that broke out in Reston, Virginia (FYI Reston is 45 minutes from Washington DC):

Q: Then later when Fort Detrick called and said they thought they had found Ebola in Virginia, what was your reaction?
A: The way it is stated in "The Hot Zone", General Russell suggested I didn't believe him. In fact, I took it very seriously. General Russell himself had enough experience to recognize Ebola when he saw it. With Marburg 67, it was monkeys that brought the virus to Europe. In 1976 we had no idea where the virus came from, so when he said he had Ebola in monkeys I sure believed him. We went to Fort Detrick the next day.
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Q: There are a number of issues concerning the response to an epidemic raised by both "The Hot Zone" and "Outbreak". How well did these describe the interaction of the various agencies?
A: The movie Outbreak created some false impressions. The law in our country gives the responsibility for epidemic management to state health departments, with these agencies calling the CDC when they need help. CDC has no authority to go into a state except by invitation. The Army could be called in by a state health department, but to my knowledge this never has happened.
In the Reston incident, the Virginia Health department and the CDC took over the human health side of the episode and the Army, at the request of the monkey import company, took over the animal side. It turned out after lots of surveillance of animal caretakers and their families that there was no human disease, but there was plenty of monkey disease. The Army's role involved depopulating the monkey colony. So the movie Outbreak, where the Army takes over, is rather fictional.

...

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Q: Back to the CDC. What do public health agencies need in order to fight epidemics?
A: The things they need are hard to come by. The National Academy of Sciences, the Institute of Medicine and the CDC have published plans on what is needed to control new and emerging diseases better. The plans focuses on better surveillance, better laboratory diagnostics, better communication and better education. The plans are very good, but the timing is terrible, since budgets are so tight, and from what I read in the papers, budgets will get much worse.
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http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/NM/interview_murphy.html
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']The potential danger of such an outbreak makes that acceptable, even desirable. Look at what happened in 1918, when almost 700,000 americans died from an outbreak of influenza.[/QUOTE]

i'm just pointing it out

it's interesting in this context
 
[quote name='PKRipp3r']i think that's why they wanna jack posse comitatus[/QUOTE]

Exactly - that's why I posted it.

Although according to the first article, the President could have quaranteened the area using the army without waiting for a local invitation from state officials.
 
[quote name='PKRipp3r']actually i kind of agree

maybe not literally 'third world'

i'd much rather be homeless in santa monica than in darfur

but there IS a very steep drop off from upper-middle class to lower-middle class.

and it's getting steeper every day[/QUOTE]

Well, I doubt anyone would deny there's a steep drop-off from CEOs that make $500 million a year (+ stock options) to most of the rest of us. However, I fail to see how that makes the U.S. a "Third World country." That's a ridiculous statement with no evidence anyone can find to back it up. In Third World countries, the people below the poverty line aren't defined as having 1 TV instead of 3.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Well, I doubt anyone would deny there's a steep drop-off from CEOs that make $500 million a year (+ stock options) to most of the rest of us. However, I fail to see how that makes the U.S. a "Third World country." That's a ridiculous statement with no evidence anyone can find to back it up. In Third World countries, the people below the poverty line aren't defined as having 1 TV instead of 3.[/QUOTE]

you should try actually reading my post

;)
 
[quote name='camoor']Exactly - that's why I posted it.

Although according to the first article, the President could have quaranteened the area using the army without waiting for a local invitation from state officials.[/QUOTE]

that's just freakin' scary

i mean, of course i don't want anything CLOSE to previous flu outbreaks to happen anywhere in the world... but wow...

let's hope the CDC can rock a vaccine soon
 
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