CAG 360 Game Lending Circle - NOW OPEN TO ALL, READ RULES 1ST - 292 Games Available!

HotShotX

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Cheap Ass Gamer 360 Game Lending Circle

Update (3/21/09): The GLC has been around for nearly 4 months now, and we've really had zero major issues. I think it goes without saying that the individual lenders can police themselves, and it is time to open the GLC to anyone the lenders are willing to work with.

Therefore, the GLC is officially out of Beta, although completed lendings cannot be reported in iTrader (as the function has not been approved or implemented yet). I will update the OP with a few changes in rules, and will leave the "recommended" minimum iTrader at +5/100% + 1 Year on CAG. This however, can be ignored by lenders if they feel comfortable.

The only thing I really want to stress here is the following: If you lend a game to someone, report it to me in the thread or by PM. I am removing the 1 game limitation, but leaving it as a recommendation.

As such, lenders have a RIGHT TO KNOW whether a borrower is currently borrowing from someone else. This is absolutely critical, and will likely prevent many if not all potential fraud and abuse. Protect yourselves, and protect your fellow CAGs. Report the beginning and end to all lendings.

I will record all completed lendings in the thread until a point in which Lender/Borrowing is added to iTrader.


Congratulations to all in making this a successful program to this point. I look forward to the expansion of the CAG GLC, because in the end, it's not about the number of games we play or the money we save (edit: yes it is), but it's about the number of us that now get to play that one game we once could not afford to play before.

Take care of your fellow CAGs, and they will take care of you.

~HotShotX
Founder and Operator of the Cheap Ass Gamer Game Lending Circle

P.S: Special Thanks to SynGamer for helping cultivate the idea in the first place.


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Overview:

Recently, I've found it very hard to justify purchasing a game using money. I'm still in college, I don't have a lot of income, and as a CAG by nature I'm very reluctant to drop even $30 on a decent game that I know will eventually hit $20 or even $10 in a few months time. Times where I have pulled the trigger and splurged on a $60 game on release day have often left me "buyer's remorse" (Soul Calibur IV), and although I have many games in my library, I'm reluctant to trade away anything permanently until I complete all the achievements, and rather than grind away at achievements as to make a game available to trade, I'd rather relax and enjoy my gaming sessions over time.

At the same time however, I'd still like to try new games coming out. A good friend of mine, SynGamer, recently was kind enough to allow me to borrow Fable II from him. I finished it within a week, was completely disappointed by the ending, finished all the achievements, and sent it back to him today with my heartfelt gratitude that he truly saved me from making another $60 mistake (I did enjoy the game, but it was absolutely not worth the $4/hr I would've paid to complete a 15 hour game at $60).

And it got me thinking, times are hard, cash to burn is hard to come by for many CAGs, and a lot of us trade away games without any issue at all. Why not take it a step beyond that and establish a game lending circle of sorts?

I could resort to trading, but the street value of Mass Effect will not meet the street value of Fallout 3 for several months, despite the fact that most gamers will probably get the same level of enjoyment and time commitment from both games. So while it may not be economically sound to trade away Fallout 3 for Mass Effect, you might be more inclined to let a trusted CAG borrow your Fallout 3 if you're not actively playing it, while you enjoy another CAG's Mass Effect, knowing that your game is still your property and will be returned to you at your request or the completion of the game by the borrower.

You might say, "But HotShot, why not just use Gamefly?" In essence, this really isn't that much different from the GF system, but I don't particularly have the drive or the money to make full use of $15.95/month for gaming, and I believe that lending between CAGs would be cheaper and a tad bit more efficient.

You also might ask why this thread is in the 360 forum and not the trading forum, and I'd say that it is here because the 360's achievement and online systems offer a significant amount of monitoring options for any lender gracious enough to allow their fellow CAGs to borrow their games. For example, most games have a "Congrats, you completed the game" achievement, and this allows a lender to check a borrower's gamertag to see if they have either finished their game, or finished all the achievements, and therefore would be so inclined to ship it back in the near future.

Rules:
1. In order to qualify for the GLC, we recommend the following guidelines:

Borrowers: 5+/100% iTrader or more and at least a year on CAG.
Lenders: At least a year on CAG, you may build iTrader through lending, just report it here, do NOT leave iTrader feedback.

These are merely recommendations by me (HotShotX), and individual lenders may set their own requirements.

As noted above, anyone with less than 100% iTrader feedback should not be using the GLC. This is still a very new idea and I am taking whatever methods I can to make it as safe as possible.

2. As a borrower, it is recommended to not borrow more than one game at a time. Don't have another game lent to you until your previous lender confirms receipt of their game back in good condition (i.e. Don't request another game simply because your previous game is “in transit”). This is a recommendation, not a set rule, and the decision is up to the lender.

3. Lenders may lend as many games to as many CAGs as they choose. Lenders lend at their discretion, can reject any request for any reason, and can request the return of their lent game at any time. There will be no waiting lists, "I requested it first", or "But I'm not finished with it" malarkey. There will be consequences for lenders who repeatedly “jerk around” borrowers with premature returns, but the request alone should not result in negative feedback being submitted, it shall be neutral.

4. This thread will maintain a list of current transactions. (Ex. HotShotX - Currently borrowing Fable II from SynGamer, or Ex. HotShotX - Fable II / SynGamer) Always check the list prior to agreeing to lending to ensure no one is borrowing more than they should. Lenders will PM me (HotShotX) the info on ALL transactions, and I'll update the thread when I can (I work full-time now, so updates have been a bit slow). If you are not vigilant enough to contribute to the list, there will be issues where some will borrow more than they should, and result in abuse. Help protect your fellow CAGs, and notify me of all lending shipping/receiving practices. Only lenders need notify me of current transactions.

5. A completed transaction results in a positive iTrader rating. A full transaction would be (Game Shipped > Game Received by Borrower > Game Shipped back to Lender > Game Received by Lender in originally lent condition). If possible, two new iTrader options should be created to show which CAG was the "Borrower" and which was the "Lender".

6. Delivery Confirmation. Period. It's about $2.60 for me to ship a game 3-Day with DC. Keep your shipping receipts, in case anything goes awry and you need to provide proof that you did indeed ship the game to the right zip code. Always PM the DC# to your borrower, and they should do the same for the lender when shipping it back.

7. Anyone caught trying to abuse the system will be dealt with as harshly as they would on the trading forum (it's not my jurisdiction but I'd like the same if not harsher penalties to apply. If all else fails you can always file for mail fraud, and I'll update the OP that someone should not be traded with).

Lender / Borrower Responsibilities:
Lenders:

1. Lend out games you don’t mind being played by trusted CAGs for a prolonged period of time, use 2 weeks as a traditional benchmark, but not necessarily a set in stone standard.

2. Do what is necessarily to protect yourself in case a game is damaged or lost in shipping. Take photos that show the condition of what your sending out, with your CAG name on a piece of paper in every photo. Keep your shipping receipts, use Delivery Confirmation. If an issue arises, they will be invaluable in proving your case.

3. Keep in touch with your borrowers, track their progress on Xbox Live, and know when they’ve gotten the “Complete the Game” achievement or all the achievements for the game they have borrowed from you. This way you have a better idea when they will be shipping the game back, and if something is up when they have 1000/1000 and they PM you “I’m not finished with the game yet, need a few more days” with no real explanation.

4. Always PM me (HotShotX) on new transactions/lending you are beginning, and when current lending is completed and your game has returned in good condition.

5. Always check the tracking list in the OP of the thread to ensure that someone is not trying to borrow from many lenders simultaneously. Borrowers ARE allowed to borrow more than one game at a time, but the practice is discouraged in order to limit/prevent abuse.

6. Always list the amount of time you are willing to lend out games for in your lending post.

Borrowers:

1. As mentioned before, Lenders are taking a large risk in lending out games, while you are saving a good amount of money for each game you borrow instead of buy. As such, you will cover all shipping costs, paying for 3-Day shipping and DC each way (about $2.60 each way), slipping in $3 into the game’s case when returning the game back to the lender, in order to cover their initial shipping costs. In the end, you will potentially be spending $5-6 to borrow a $60 game for a period of time.

2. Take the utmost care of the games you borrow. The term “Mint Condition” means different things to different people, and some people simply cannot take care of things in their possession like others will. If you feel that you and a lender will have a conflict on the condition of a game, borrow from someone else. You should also be taking photos of the games you borrow if you feel that the condition of the game might be an issue.

3. Only borrow games you will actually have time to play for a reasonable amount of time. Don't borrow 2-3 games from the GLC when you're getting the next big release in the same time frame. Lenders expect their games collect dust on THEIR shelves, not yours. If you have not played the game you borrowed in a few days, ship it back so others can play it, and borrow it again at a later time.

4. Understand that Lenders have full control about the lending of their games. If they request it back, you may ask for additional time, but if they refuse, pack the game up and ship it back without issue. A program such as this relies heavily on the generosity of your fellow CAGs, and we will do as much as we can to make the process as easy as we can for those who essentially gain nothing by its success, but contribute everything to it.

FAQs:
1. Is there a specific amount of time a game can be borrowed for?

Lenders will set their own individual times that a game of theirs can be borrowed for. Some lenders will not set a time and will allow a borrower to borrow a game indefinitely until they request it back, and some may set a period of a few weeks. This information needs to be made clear up front and in the borrowing list of all lenders, so that borrowers can make a decision as to whether they will have enough time with a game before requesting.

2. Can a borrower ship a borrowed game to the next borrower in line, and not back to the lender, in order to save shipping?

This practice is discouraged by the circle in order to preventing the situation of “My game was damaged by a borrower, but which one?”. Lenders should be taking every step to preserve the quality of their games, inspecting the disk and taking photos before shipping and after receiving it back, in case damage beyond traditional wear and tear has been received and a borrower needs to replace the disk. However, we also understand the demand to keep shipping costs as low as possible, and ultimately leave the decision up to individual lenders, but be aware that if your games are damaged, your options are limited. We are not eBay, and will not consistently take a single side when no evidence is provided. “He said / She said” arguments between borrowers and lenders will ultimately amount to bupkis.

3. Who pays for the cost of shipping/envelopes/etc.?

Borrowers will pay for all associated shipping costs. Lenders are taking a large enough risk, but are also kind enough to lend their games to those strangers/acquaintances online. When borrowers are potentially saving $60 to play a recently released video game, $5 is very little to ask for. Since the values of money involved as so small, it might not make much sense to use PayPal to transfer $3 to a lender, when part of that will be cut out, and not everyone has PayPal. It will be considered an acceptable practice for borrowers to slip in $3-4 into the game’s case/envelope upon shipping it back to the lender.

4. At what point would a commercial game rental plan like GameFly be a better choice of the CAG Game Lending Circle?

The minimum Gamefly plan costs $15.95/month, and you can borrow one game at a time. You would have to borrow and beat 3-4 games a month on this lending circle before Gamefly is a better option. This is mostly for CAGs who want to borrow games, but play them at their leisure. At the same time, this is also for lenders who are not actively playing a game in their library and don't want to trade it off, but don't mind others playing it while they work on another game.

5. How can you expect somebody to send you a $60 game when all a borrower might have as "collateral" is a $10 game?

The street value of the game is not what's being trading here, but rather the amount of time one would spend playing the game. Mass Effect and Fallout 3 are nowhere near in value as far as money is concerned, but Mass Effect will take as long to beat as Fallout 3 and deliver a great gaming experience, just as Fallout 3 would. If a lender is not interested in playing a game from a borrower but still wants "collateral", they should borrow a higher end game from the borrower, and split the cost of shipping. If you are not comfortable, lend to someone else. No one will ever force a lender to lend to those they are uncomfortable with.

6. Basically Lenders are letting someone they don't know anything about to borrow their property.

If you just lend out your games to whoever on CAG, then yeah. Lenders should be taking some time to review the previous trading history of potential borrowers, or trade only amongst close CAG friends. Lenders have full control over who they do and do not trade with. You will not be booted from CAG or the GLC if you choose to lend only to a select few.

If you are that concerned about your items getting damaged by others, do one of the following:

A. Only lend out games you don't might becoming damaged.
B. Borrow a high end game from the borrower as collateral.
C. Ask the borrower to replace the disk, report them if refused, file for mail fraud.
D. Lend only to people you trust (not everyone immediately just scratches the hell out of their disk the second they get it).

7. What if my game is damaged by a borrower, what is the process of replacing it?

If a borrower is being cooperative, the process is very simple:

A. The borrower buys a replacement copy online or in their area, and has it mailed to the lender. This copy must be in "sealed/new" or "used in mint condition", the cost does not matter, and cash is not acceptable. The borrower will include an extra $3 to cover the cost of the lender shipping the damaged game back to the borrower.
B. The lender will ship the damaged game and all associated materials (case/manual) to the borrower.
C. Positive feedback is left for both parties. The transaction went bad, but amends were made.

Recognized Lenders (Some games may not available at this time):
Chronotrigga
Assassins Creed
Beautiful Katamari
Burnout Paradise

CoD:WaW

DDR Universe

Dead Rising

Fallout 3 (I'll be glad to exchange this for Fable 2)

Gears of War 2

GRAW 2
GTA IV

Halo 3

Mass Effect
NBA 07/NFL 07

Viva Pinata
Foo228

Crackdown
Gears of War
The Orange Box
XBLA Unplugged V1
XBLA Arcade 360 disk
homeland
Civ: Revolution
Crackdown
Lego's Indiana Jones
Lost Odyssey
Sega Superstar Tennis
Stuntman
XBL Arcade Compilation Disk
HotShotX
Ace Combat 6
Army of Two
Bully: Scholarship Edition
Burnout Revenge
Call of Duty 3
Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars
Crackdown
Dead or Alive 4
Devil May Cry 4
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Gears of War
Grand Theft Auto IV
Kameo: Elements of Power
Kingdom Under Fire: Circle of Doom
Mass Effect
Orange Box
Overlord
Project Sylpheed
Sonic The Hedgehog
Soul Calibur IV
Universe at War: Earth Assault
Viva Pinata
JIGSAWjr
Big Bumpin'
Blue Dragon
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 3
Condemned: Criminal Origins
Dark Sector
Madden 07
NBA 2k7
Pocketbike Racer
Rainbow Six: Vegas
Sneak King
Saints Row (PH)
Splinter Cell: Double Agent Limited Edition
Test Drive: Unlimited
Viva Pinata
jp0213
Battlefield Bad Company: Gold Edition
Big Bumpin
Burnout: Revenge
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 3
Call of Duty 4
Crackdown
Dead or Alive 4
Destroy All Humans!: Path of the Furon
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Limited Collector's Edition
Elder Scrolls IV: Shivering Isle
F.E.A.R.
F.E.A.R. Files
Fable II: Limited Edition
Fallout 3: Limited Edition
Flatout: Ultimate Carnage
Gears of War: Limited Collector's Edition
Grand Theft Auto IV: Special Edition
Halo 3: Legendary Edition
Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga
Madden NFL 08
Madden NFL 09: 20th Anniversary Edition
Mass Effect: Limited Collector's Edition
Mercenaries 2
Perfect Dark Zero: Limited Collector's Edition
PocketBike Racer
Prey: Limited Collector's Edition
Quake 4
Scene It!
Sneak King
Soul Calibur IV: Limited Edition
Star Trek: Legacy
WWE Smackdown vs. Raw 2009
justden
Bioshock
Blue Dragon
Call of Duty 3
Call of Duty 4
Civilization Revolution
Culdcept Saga
Devil May Cry 4
Eternal Sonata
Gears of War
Gears of War 2
Grand Theft Auto 4
Kameo
Lego Batman
Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle Earth 2
Orange Box
Overlord
Spider-Man 3
Tenchu Z
Too Human
Viva Pinata
Viva Pinata: Trouble in Paradise
Littlefields
Call of Duty 4
Forza Motorsport 2
Gears of War
Gears of War 2
RockBand (Lending disc)
Manatee
Beowulf
Blazing Angels 2
Blue Dragon
Chromehounds
College Hoops 2K7
Conan
Condemned
Condemned 2
DDR Universe 1
Enchanted Arms
Far Cry:Instincts Predator
Forza Motorsports 2
Gears of War
GTA IV
Guitar Hero II
Guitar Hero III
Hitman Blood Money
Lego Star Wars II
Lost Odyssey
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Monster Madness
Naruto: Rise of a Ninja
NBA 2K8
NBA Live 07
NBA Live 08
NFS Most Wanted
NFS Prostreet
NHL 2K7
NHL 2K8
Perfect Dark Zero
Prey
Saints Row
Skate.
Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Superman Returns
The Bigs
The Orange Box -- Out to Peggy Wu
Timeshift
XBL Arcade Compilation
StarKnightX
All-Pro Football 2K8
Army of Two
Assassin's Creed
Banjo Kazooie : Nuts and Bolts
Beautiful Katamari
Blazing Angels 2
Blitz the League
Blue Dragon
Bigs (The)
Burger King Games (Big Bumpin , Pocketbike Racer , Sneak King)
Burnout Revenge
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 3
Cars
Chromehounds
Condemned
Comdemned 2 : Bloodshot
Crackdown
Culdcept Saga
Dance Dance Revolution Universe
Darkness (The)
Dark Sector
Dead or Alive 4
Deadrising
Def Jam Icon
Dragonball Z : Burst Limit
Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires
FIFA Soccer 07
Forza 2
Fuzion Frenzy 2
Gears of War
Gears of War 2
Grid
Guitar Hero 2
Halo 3
Hitman Blood Money
Just Cause
Kameo
Lara Croft - Tomb Radier : Legend
Lego Batman
Lost Odyssey
Lost Planet : Colonies Edition
Madden 08
Marvel Ultimate Alliace Gold Edition
NBA 2K6
NBA 2K7
NBA Street Homecourt
Need for Speed : Most Wanted
Need for Speed : Carbon
Need for Speed : ProStreet
Ninety Nine Nights
Open Season
Peter Jackson't King Kong
Perfect Dark Zero
Project Gotham Racing 3 and 4
Project Sylpheed
Ridge Racer 6
Rock Band
Rumble Roses
Saints Row
Samurai Warriors 2 : Empires
Shrek the Third
Sonic the Hedgehog
The Simpsons Game
Soul Calibur 4
Spider-man 3
Spiderwick Chronicles
Stanglehold
Stuntman Ignition
Superman Returns
Table Tennis presented by Rockstar Games
Tales of Vesperia
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07
Timeshift
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon : Advanced Warfighter 1 and 2
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell : Double Agent
Tony Hawk's Project 8
Tony Hawk's Proving Ground
Turok
Virtua Fighter 5 Online
Viva Pinata
Viva Pinata Party Animals
Wartech
WWE Smackdown vs Raw 2007
Xbox Live Arcade unleashed
Xbox Live Arcade Sampler (One included in Arcade Systems)
SynGamer
Amped 3
Blitz: The League II
Bullet Witch
Dark Sector
Deadliest Catch
Flatout Ultimate Carnage
Lost Odyssey
Mass Effect Platinum Hits
Marvel Ultimate Alliance/Forza 2 Combo Pack
NHL 2K7
NBA 2K8
The Simpson's Game
Unreal Tournament III

Current Transactions (Always check for 24 hrs before lending!!!):
(Borrower - Game Title / Lender):

Chris Dillon - Rock Band 1 / littlefields
FlyingMonkey9 - Too Human / justden
Millertime2325 - Lego Indiana Jones / homeland

StarKnightX - Ace Combat 6 / HotShotX

Completed Transactions (Will be removed at conclusion of Beta):
(Borrower - Game Title / Lender):

captmurphy - Call of Duty 4 / SoulReaver
Chronotrigga - Civilization Revolution / homeland
Foo228 - F.E.A.R. / jp0213
homeland - Fallout 3 / Chronotrigga)
HotShotX - Deadliest Catch / SynGamer
HotShotX - Dragonball Z: Burst Limit / StarKnightX
HotShotX - Fable II / SynGamer
HotShotX - Lost Odyssey / SynGamer
SoulReaver - Project Gotham Racing 4 / captmurphy
SoulReaver - Soul Cailbur IV / StarKnightX
SynGamer - Fallout 3 / HotShotX
SynGamer - Mass Effect / HotShotX
tehmuffinman - College Hoops 2k7 / Manatee


~HotShotX
 
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I think this is a great idea, especially with Target discounted games. Cags showed they could handle the responsibility with the Avatar Conga, though we seemed to have failed on The Shipwrecks Battle of the Pacific Conga that never really got off the ground. Not sure this would get approved and I wouldn't qualify.. = ( but still a good idea.
 
I think if format it right, this has a lot of potential. There are games i'd love to play right now but cost $50-60 *coughFALLOUT3cough*. I think the lending should be completely up to the person with the game. Say i'm post #3 an i ask to trade my Fable II for someone elses Fallout 3...and then someone below me (post #4?) posts the same thing, the lender (person with Fallout 3) should have complete freedom to trade with post #4 even though i posted first. I would assume it's based on length of membership (at least 1 year) and iTrader feedback.

Just thought i'd throw that out there in the even that this takes off and people start bitching the so-and-so got a game before someone else.
 
[quote name='SynGamer']I think if format it right, this has a lot of potential. There are games i'd love to play right now but cost $50-60 *coughFALLOUT3cough*. I think the lending should be completely up to the person with the game. Say i'm post #3 an i ask to trade my Fable II for someone elses Fallout 3...and then someone below me (post #4?) posts the same thing, the lender (person with Fallout 3) should have complete freedom to trade with post #4 even though i posted first. I would assume it's based on length of membership (at least 1 year) and iTrader feedback.

Just thought i'd throw that out there in the even that this takes off and people start bitching the so-and-so got a game before someone else.[/quote]

Thanks for bringing that up, I've updated point #4:

4. Lenders may lend as many games to as many CAGs as they choose, as long as it doesn't conflict with rule #3. Lenders lend at their discretion, can reject any request for any reason, and can request the return of their lended game at any time. There will be no waiting lists, "I requested it first", or "But I'm not finished with it" malarkey.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='hlb96']I also wouldn't qualify, but this seems like a good idea. Good luck on getting this started.[/quote]

If it becomes a widespread issue, I wouldn't be against having a form of "rolling" qualifications such as:

1 Year CAG = 15/100%
2 Year CAG = 10/100%
3 Year CAG = 6/100%
4 Year CAG = 4/100%

Completed lendings would also increase your iTrader rating, but this will certainly help older members who don't trade often get in on the circle.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='hlb96']I also wouldn't qualify, but this seems like a good idea. Good luck on getting this started.[/quote]
I see someone as yourself (registered for 4 years, but only 2 iTrader) as an exception where the "Lender" can use their discretion.
 
i thought about doing this as well, but decided against it. my reason being i have seen people with 30+ itrader with 100% feedback go sour on deals, so i don't see how that wouldn't happen with a newer game from this. something like avatar that wasn't worth stealing is one thing, but what do i know? it isn't a bad idea really, i am sticking to only loaning my games out to CAG's and other friends that i constantly play online with and know aren't going to rip me off.

if you do set something up and it starts out well, i may be willing to jump in, but i would honestly suggest at least having people play together for at least a few days before to get an idea of what a person is like.
 
I'm all for it if it gets off the ground. I know I have plenty of games I want to finish the achievements on and don't want to sell but can't see myself playing in the near future.
 
This is a rad idea, and could really be great for exposing people to lesser-wanted games that they'd never play otherwise. There's a lot of low profile games that don't trade for beans and sit on tradelists forever.
 
[quote name='IAmTheBiggestInuyashaFan']i thought about doing this as well, but decided against it. my reason being i have seen people with 30+ itrader with 100% feedback go sour on deals, so i don't see how that wouldn't happen with a newer game from this. something like avatar that wasn't worth stealing is one thing, but what do i know? it isn't a bad idea really, i am sticking to only loaning my games out to CAG's and other friends that i constantly play online with and know aren't going to rip me off.

if you do set something up and it starts out well, i may be willing to jump in, but i would honestly suggest at least having people play together for at least a few days before to get an idea of what a person is like.[/quote]

If you're concerned about lending to a particular CAG, you can always reject the request, but if you choose to go through with it, you can always request a game of theirs as "collateral", if you haven't already borrowed another game.

~HotShotX
 
Awesome idea. We can do something like this that uses our new trading system - if Cheapy wants me to go ahead with this (at some point after the big update), I can get started on it.
 
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Hotshot, I was thinking about this 1-2 weeks ago. Do you remember the Avatar loaning program someone had awhile back? This is what got me thinking, that there could be a CAG Game Rental, etc.. service. I thought that this was a relatively great idea at first, however, I decided not to post the idea due to several reasons:

1. Owners may not see their game for weeks on end if there is a chain (passing game on), unless, they send out the game to someone for a week, and get it sent back to them. The cost of this for someone who wants the game should pay the owner (let's say $2.50 to ship it to them) and then another $2.50 to send it back to the owner. This equates to $5.00, and a Blockbuster rental is like $6-7. If the owner doesn't mind sending their game out and creating a chain, this may work, however, if each person keeps it for a week, that's too long. I was thinking to myself, 3 days, however, 3 days may not be enough to play a game through such as Fable 2 -- especially if you don't have time.

2. People that want to borrow games should be lenient to let other people borrow games. This way, at least everyone who wants a game will be able to get something in return. You don't want 10 people requesting numerous games, and not enough of a game supply to go around.


All in all, it's a great idea. I don't know why I didn't post about it. I think it had something to do with the price of shipping, because, obviously, you don't want the ownost amount of money, the best way would be a chain. Maybe top of 2-3 people can rent the same game from a CAG.er to ship his/her game out using his/her money, right? So, say you want Fable 2 and you pay the owner $2.50 to ship (First Class). If you send it back to owner, that's another $2.50, equating to $5.00 like I said earlier, and the owner won't get it back for at least a good week. In addition, if there is a CHAIN, then you really only have to pay $2.50 because you send it to the next person, but like I said, the owner won't see it back for awhile. I think this was the problem I was thinking.

Here is the problem in example format:

Owner ships game out to CAG A
CAG A pays owner $2.50 to ship it to their house
CAG A gets the game and plays it for like 5 days and finishes
CAG B pays CAG A $2.50 to ship it to their house
CAG B gets the game and plays it for 3 days and finishes
CAG C pays CAG B $2.50 to ship it to their house
CAG C gets game and plays for 7 days and finishes
CAG C then sends back to Owner, uh.. I guess CAG C pays an ADDITIONAL $2.50 to send it back to owner?


Thus:
1. The last person who gets the game has to send it to the owner, but will the owner pay the money to get it back, or will the last person have to do it, even though they already paid to have it shipped to them from the previous person?
2. For example's sakes, lets say First Class is $2.50 and takes 3 days to ship. From the time the Owner shipped the game out and the time he/she got it back, it was: 23 days. I got 23 days by adding up the days, however, considering that they will play the game as soon as the game arrives (so on the third day when they get it, they will start playing). If I didn't do that method where they play as soon as they get the game, it's like 28 days.
 
[quote name='HotShotX']If it becomes a widespread issue, I wouldn't be against having a form of "rolling" qualifications such as:

1 Year CAG = 15/100%
2 Year CAG = 10/100%
3 Year CAG = 6/100%
4 Year CAG = 4/100%

Completed lendings would also increase your iTrader rating, but this will certainly help older members who don't trade often get in on the circle.

~HotShotX[/QUOTE]If you do make some sort of a sliding qualification scale, I'd definitely be interested in being a part of this. I've been around CAG forever, but haven't done many trades here.

It might be a good idea to set up some sort of loose guidelines as to how long it's acceptable to hold onto a loaned game. Some people might not worry about how long a fellow CAG had their game, but others might get antsy about getting it back a lot sooner. Having some kind of "acceptable" time range to work within might motivate CAGs who tend to play slower or take longer to finish some games (thinking of myself here) to plow through at a quicker rate.
 
[quote name='Chronotrigga']Hotshot, I was thinking about this 1-2 weeks ago. Do you remember the Avatar loaning program someone had awhile back? This is what got me thinking, that there could be a CAG Game Rental, etc.. service. I thought that this was a relatively great idea at first, however, I decided not to post the idea due to several reasons:

1. Owners may not see their game for weeks on end if there is a chain (passing game on), unless, they send out the game to someone for a week, and get it sent back to them. The cost of this for someone who wants the game should pay the owner (let's say $2.50 to ship it to them) and then another $2.50 to send it back to the owner. This equates to $5.00, and a Blockbuster rental is like $6-7. If the owner doesn't mind sending their game out and creating a chain, this may work, however, if each person keeps it for a week, that's too long. I was thinking to myself, 3 days, however, 3 days may not be enough to play a game through such as Fable 2 -- especially if you don't have time.

2. People that want to borrow games should be lenient to let other people borrow games. This way, at least everyone who wants a game will be able to get something in return. You don't want 10 people requesting numerous games, and not enough of a game supply to go around.


All in all, it's a great idea. I don't know why I didn't post about it. I think it had something to do with the price of shipping, because, obviously, you don't want the owner to ship his/her game out using his/her money, right? So, say you want Fable 2 and you pay the owner $2.50 to ship (First Class). If you send it back to owner, that's another $2.50, equating to $5.00 like I said earlier, and the owner won't get it back for at least a good week. In addition, if there is a CHAIN, then you really only have to pay $2.50 because you send it to the next person, but like I said, the owner won't see it back for awhile. I think this was the problem I was thinking.[/quote]
I was thinking of a time limit but that would really go against the idea of playing the game at your own pace. As per rule #4, the Lender (owner of the game) may request the game back at any time so that should eliminate the need for a time limit on the lending. The Avatar chain was something that could literally be done in 5 minutes and sent out the same day you received it. This however is more geared towards people enjoying the game as if they bought it, and then sending it back.

I do like the idea of the Borrower sending the game to someone else so long as the Lender has OK'd this. It would cut down on shipping costs and time between transactions.
 
[quote name='Danimal']If you do make some sort of a sliding qualification scale, I'd definitely be interested in being a part of this. I've been around CAG forever, but haven't done many trades here.

It might be a good idea to set up some sort of loose guidelines as to how long it's acceptable to hold onto a loaned game. Some people might not worry about how long a fellow CAG had their game, but others might get antsy about getting it back a lot sooner. Having some kind of "acceptable" time range to work within might motivate CAGs who tend to play slower or take longer to finish some games (thinking of myself here) to plow through at a quicker rate.[/quote]

I think those time frames should be establish by individual lenders (who can post in their listing that they will only lend games for a designated period of time). I'm up for promoting the idea that borrowers should be extremely courteous enough to put the borrowed game at the top of their playing list, but I think that there should not be a hard time frame for holding onto games, but instead set by individual lenders.

All in all, it's a great idea. I don't know why I didn't post about it. I think it had something to do with the price of shipping, because, obviously, you don't want the owner to ship his/her game out using his/her money, right? So, say you want Fable 2 and you pay the owner $2.50 to ship (First Class). If you send it back to owner, that's another $2.50, equating to $5.00 like I said earlier, and the owner won't get it back for at least a good week. In addition, if there is a CHAIN, then you really only have to pay $2.50 because you send it to the next person, but like I said, the owner won't see it back for awhile. I think this was the problem I was thinking.

I do agree that chaining shipping is more efficient and should be used, but only if the lender agrees to such a practice, and gets some proof that the game is still in good condition. The last thing we need is a game passing 3 or 4 hands and the lender gets it back in crappy condition with no idea who caused it. It may cost a bit more, but sending it back to the lender each time might be best, unless they approve otherwise.

~HotShotX
 
The only problem with this lending circle is really how much the owner cares. If the owner doesn't care if their game is out for extended periods of time, then this idea is great. I think as long as everyone is willing to pitch in one of their games, then no one will complain. Plus, everyone who loans a game will be able to get one back.

EDIT: I think a solution to the disc condition (I doubt anyone would want to pay $5.00 to get the game and then send it back to owner) would be not only the "honor code" since 100% of the CAGs in on this would be high feedback, but also a feedback report when they got the game and sent it out. So:

CAG A gets game and reports that it is in mildly good condition, no scratches.
CAG B gets the game and holy shit there's scratches on it!
CAG C confirms game is scratched

Because we cannot tell who did it, both CAG A and CAG B are out of the program. Thus, the solution would be that if you did scratch a game, you're pretty much fucked because you can't get in the program again. However, the owner may be slightly pissed.


^-- Worst solution ever.
 
[quote name='HotShotX']If it becomes a widespread issue, I wouldn't be against having a form of "rolling" qualifications such as:

1 Year CAG = 15/100%
2 Year CAG = 10/100%
3 Year CAG = 6/100%
4 Year CAG = 4/100%

Completed lendings would also increase your iTrader rating, but this will certainly help older members who don't trade often get in on the circle.

~HotShotX[/QUOTE]

You picked the perfect cutoff, LOL. I've been here 4 and 1/2 years and have 4 trades completed. I don't get rid of games unless absolutely necessary, hence the low amount. Still have 100%, though.

I'm all for this. My one and only concern is that I am very anal about keeping my games in as close to perfect condition as possible, and I know not everyone is the same way. I'm not suggesting anyone would handle the games carelessly, but even the slightest superficial scratch bothers me.
 
[quote name='HotShotX']If you're concerned about lending to a particular CAG, you can always reject the request, but if you choose to go through with it, you can always request a game of theirs as "collateral", if you haven't already borrowed another game.

~HotShotX[/QUOTE]

the main reason i feel this way is the fact that i was thinking of doing this for the cag achievement whore group and though i doubt many people on here would steal games, but that is why i said i would suggest playing a game with them or something to get a feel for them. a couple of members from the cag achievement group turned me away from doing this simply because the way they acted while playing games, though i have actually loaned games to a couple of cag's with no problems. i am not saying it was a bad idea and i would actually be up for it for the most part, although there aren't many games i would be looking to borrow since between me and my brother, i basically have every game that i have wanted to play. i also understand rejecting a request, but i honestly don't see how it would be easy to make a call like that without playing or talking with them unless they have done something on cag that has bothered me.
 
[quote name='Chronotrigga']Here is the problem in example format:

Owner ships game out to CAG A
CAG A pays owner $2.50 to ship it to their house
CAG A gets the game and plays it for like 5 days and finishes
CAG B pays CAG A $2.50 to ship it to their house
CAG B gets the game and plays it for 3 days and finishes
CAG C pays CAG B $2.50 to ship it to their house
CAG C gets game and plays for 7 days and finishes
CAG C then sends back to Owner, uh.. I guess CAG C pays an ADDITIONAL $2.50 to send it back to owner? [/quote]
What i did with HotShotX was i paid to ship it to him, he paid to send it back.

If you apply the same to your example;

CAG A (Lender) pays $2.50 to send the game to CAG B
CAG B (Borrower) pays $2.50 to send the game to CAG C
CAG C (Borrower) pays $2.50 to send the game back to CAG A
 
This sounds like a great idea. I really thing this community of people could pull this off, we are all in it for the same thing, to play some kick ass games without having to spend a whole lot of money. Although this particular account has not been active for a year id still support it.

so, You got my vote :)
 
[quote name='SynGamer']What i did with HotShotX was i paid to ship it to him, he paid to send it back.

If you apply the same to your example;

CAG A (Lender) pays $2.50 to send the game to CAG B
CAG B (Borrower) pays $2.50 to send the game to CAG C
CAG C (Borrower) pays $2.50 to send the game back to CAG A[/QUOTE]

that is why a chain may be a little bad IMO. the lender shouldn't have to pay to loan their game out, even if it is only a couple of dollars. i say whomever is the first to request the game pays for shipping to themselves and then to the next person since that is the way it should be if there were no chain.
 
[quote name='dastly75']In that case the lender is spending money to lend their game out. Or CAG C compensates them AND pays their shipping fees.[/QUOTE]
But the lender would become the receiver in other transactions and wouldn't pay to have the game shipped to him. It would all even out eventually.
 
[quote name='Limet']Is there a shipping option for that ?
Like The item is only delivered if the borrower pays the fee ?[/QUOTE]

just have them pay first before sending. it will still save them a couple of dollars rather than going to blockbuster and paying $8-$10. i just know i wouldn't be happy to be the person that paid for the game myself only to end up having to pay to ship to someone else if there wasn't anything i wanted in return.
 
[quote name='IAmTheBiggestInuyashaFan']that is why a chain may be a little bad IMO. the lender shouldn't have to pay to loan their game out, even if it is only a couple of dollars. i say whomever is the first to request the game pays for shipping to themselves and then to the next person since that is the way it should be if there were no chain.[/quote]

I agree, the lender is already doing a lot by passing their game out. The initial borrower should foot the extra shipping fee. They ARE already saving a truckload by borrowing the game. Subsequent borrowers, however, would only pay the $2.50 shipping fee, or however much it costs to ship.

~HotShotX
 
The shipper pays the shipping, problem solved. The lender has to pay to lend the game out, but it's sent back free. It certainly wouldn't be fair to have someone pay shipping twice.
 
[quote name='JJSP']But the lender would become the receiver in other transactions and wouldn't pay to have the game shipped to him. It would all even out eventually.[/QUOTE]

sorry for the double post here, but that isn't exactly true. between me and my brother we have close to 200 retail games for the 360. i know there are others like me that buy them cheap and don't sell or trade them, so i basically have nothing i would be looking to receive from anyone else. i would be fine loaning my games to some people, but again, i wouldn't be happy paying shipping myself and that would turn me away from something like this completely. now if it is a mutual borrowing thing, that is completely different than what i am talking about.
 
[quote name='Rocko']The shipper pays the shipping, problem solved. The lender has to pay to lend the game out, but it's sent back free. It certainly wouldn't be fair to have someone pay shipping twice.[/QUOTE]

that isn't exactly fair to the lender since they were the only one that paid for the game to begin with. like i said, the person who is first in line should be willing to pay shipping both ways to begin with (assuming no chain) since they aren't paying full price for the game anyways.
 
[quote name='thepik241']I would love to join however I don't normally trade on CAG.

Could an exception be made for someone in a position such as I?[/quote]
DO you have Amazon/eBay feedback? I mentioned this to HotShotX earlier as a possible options for lenders to check.
 
[quote name='thepik241']I would love to join however I don't normally trade on CAG.

Could an exception be made for someone in a position such as I?[/quote]

Sorry, but I imagine the qualifications for trading will be particularly strict, as far as thread monitoring is concerned. If you can work something out with your friends on CAG, certainly, but the thread will not be overseeing it.

sorry for the double post here, but that isn't exactly true. between me and my brother we have close to 200 retail games for the 360. i know there are others like me that buy them cheap and don't sell or trade them, so i basically have nothing i would be looking to receive from anyone else. i would be fine loaning my games to some people, but again, i wouldn't be happy paying shipping myself and that would turn me away from something like this completely. now if it is a mutual borrowing thing, that is completely different than what i am talking about.

Mutual borrowing between two CAGs would share the shipping cost, naturally.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='IAmTheBiggestInuyashaFan']that isn't exactly fair to the lender since they were the only one that paid for the game to begin with. like i said, the person who is first in line should be willing to pay shipping both ways to begin with (assuming no chain) since they aren't paying full price for the game anyways.[/quote]
Actually, this could work. They pay $2.50 to the lender to ship the game, BUT they can reuse the package it comes in, thus total round trip shipping cost would likely be less than $5.
 
[quote name='Rocko']A chain is asking for trouble IMO, although it would be at the owner's discretion I suppose.[/quote]
I think for the sake of shipping costs and less stress, a chain should be completely up to the lender. I personally, probably wouldn't do it. I would like to get my game back, inspect it, and then leave feedback. It would take all of 3 days max to ship the game back to me and then i can pass it on to someone else.
 
[quote name='dastly75']In that case the lender is spending money to lend their game out. Or CAG C compensates them AND pays their shipping fees.[/quote]

The way you solve it, guys, is by implementing a token system. Start everybody out with 1 token, and each game you send out adds 1 token to your total. Therefore, people who don't share, don't get.

It just makes sense to have the person sending the game pay for shipping, but there also has to be some kind of incentive on their end. If they send a game out, they receive one token, and can use that to receive a game themselves.

Also, no chain. It's simply a bad idea. It leaves too much room for problems and blame games (intentional or unintentional). Doing individual trades would also alleviate any time limit problems because you wouldn't have the next person on the list breathing down your neck to hurry up and send the game. Also, using the token system should help reduce shipping costs because once somebody has lent out 4 games (and spent $10), it's unlikely they'll keep shelling out money unless they start receiving games for their trouble.
 
[quote name='HotShotX']Mutual borrowing between two CAGs would share the shipping cost, naturally.

~HotShotX[/QUOTE]

that is what i meant, mutual borrowing was not what i was including in it and i think chaining things with mutual borrowing would turn out extremely bad, especially with a lot of games going out all the time. i am with rocko here, a chain is not a very good idea at this point, especially since not everyone will know who has what at all times since i would mostly be dealing with pm's in my case.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']The way you solve it, guys, is by implementing a token system. Start everybody out with 1 token, and each game you send out adds 1 token to your total. Therefore, people who don't share, don't get.

It just makes sense to have the person sending the game pay for shipping, but there also has to be some kind of incentive on their end. If they send a game out, they receive one token, and can use that to receive a game themselves.[/QUOTE]
But that would screw people who don't want games. Not to mention become much more complicated than saying that the person who wants the game pays the shipping both ways, period.
 
[quote name='IAmTheBiggestInuyashaFan']sorry for the double post here, but that isn't exactly true. between me and my brother we have close to 200 retail games for the 360. i know there are others like me that buy them cheap and don't sell or trade them, so i basically have nothing i would be looking to receive from anyone else. i would be fine loaning my games to some people, but again, i wouldn't be happy paying shipping myself and that would turn me away from something like this completely. now if it is a mutual borrowing thing, that is completely different than what i am talking about.[/QUOTE]
Then it sounds like this wouldn't really benefit you in any way, and there's be little to no reason to participate. I don't mean to sound harsh if I do, but it seems like this is aimed at CAG's who are mutally looking to lend and borrow, as doing just one without the other (well, I suppose only borrowing would be beneficial, yet greedy) would be kinda pointless.

If the receiver was paying $2.50 to receive and $2.50 to send back, that's $5 and it becomes easier to just go to Blockbuster.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']The way you solve it, guys, is by implementing a token system. Start everybody out with 1 token, and each game you send out adds 1 token to your total. Therefore, people who don't share, don't get.

It just makes sense to have the person sending the game pay for shipping, but there also has to be some kind of incentive on their end. If they send a game out, they receive one token, and can use that to receive a game themselves.[/quote]
While i like the idea, the whole point is to share games to people who don't have the means (aka $$) to buy games (new/old/used). Say all i have is...COD2. If no one wants that, i shouldn't be penalized if others are willing to trade a game to me that no one else is currently playing...
 
[quote name='SynGamer']I would like to get my game back, inspect it, and then leave feedback. It would take all of 3 days max to ship the game back to me and then i can pass it on to someone else.[/quote]

Another solid point. A chain would render the feedback system useless.
 
[quote name='JJSP']Then it sounds like this wouldn't really benefit you in any way, and there's be little to no reason to participate. I don't mean to sound harsh if I do, but it seems like this is aimed at CAG's who are mutally looking to lend and borrow, as doing just one without the other (well, I suppose only borrowing would be beneficial, yet greedy) would be kinda pointless.

If the receiver was paying $2.50 to receive and $2.50 to send back, that's $5 and it becomes easier to just go to Blockbuster.[/QUOTE]

thing is, i really don't mind doing something like this since almost everything i have bought is due to deals from CAG. also how is it easier to go to blockbuster to be honest? you pay close to $10 there for 5 days on a new game, which means you have to rush through the game. this wouldn't really benefit me much, every now and then i may see something that grabs my eye and would like to borrow though, which is another reason why i would be up for doing this.
 
[quote name='Rocko']But that would screw people who don't want games. Not to mention become much more complicated than saying that the person who wants the game pays the shipping both ways, period.[/quote]

I don't understand the logic here. Why would anybody be on board with sending out their personal property if there wasn't anything for them to gain from it? Wouldn't you lend so you can borrow?

And if I'm paying $5 to receive a game from somebody...how many games a month do I have to borrow before I'm just better off having a Gamefly account? It's starting to seem a little pointless.
 
[quote name='SynGamer']While i like the idea, the whole point is to share games to people who don't have the means (aka $$) to buy games (new/old/used). Say all i have is...COD2. If no one wants that, i shouldn't be penalized if others are willing to trade a game to me that no one else is currently playing...[/quote]

All you have is COD2? Come on man...that's a bit unrealistic and outside of the reach of something like this. How can you expect somebody to send you a $60 game when all you have as "collateral" is a $10 game? Unfortunately, I don't think something like this would ever work for those kind of CAGs (who also have less to lose from a game being "lost", "damaged", etc.)

I thought the point of this was for people like this: CAG A: buys Fallout 3, but can't afford to buy GoW2. CAG B: buys GoW2, but can't afford to buy Fallout 3. Play, share, rinse, repeat. You just saved $60!
 
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