CAGcast #290: Dyad, Ouya and More 4 Letter Words

CheapyD

CheapyD

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[preview][IMG-L=5838]15060[/IMG-L]The crew talks Ouya and Penny-Arcade Kickstarters, Dyad, Spec-Ops: The Line, Steam Summer Sale, Silver-Age Batman, and more!

Get your questions or topics answered on future shows via CAGbag or Twitter.

[podcast]199[/podcast]
Download - 1 hour 25 minutes, 51MB
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Show Linkage/Notes:

Intro/Outro: Soulwax / Bugs Bunny PSA
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I thought you were saying that buying an ipad just for the soul purpose of being a learning tool for your child to learn with was a good idea. I misunderstood. And I don't want a thorbyD in this world. Sorry Cheapy ;)

The next Batman game from Rocksteady will be a sequel to Arkham City I hope. I mean Arkham City has a ton of easter eggs eluding to the another game to follow.
 
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I liked the discussion at the end the most. I always replay parts of the cast cause I play games and miss things and now I missed the codes! Congrats to those other two dudes.
 
about the ouya console, its going to be a micro console focused on cloud gaming and small games. the console will run Android OS and have the specs of a high end cell phone. the hacking is in reference to bring able to customize your OS a you like such as running cyanogen or other custom roms. pretty much anything you can do on your cell or tablet you can do on the ouya. you can even do net flix Hulu and onlive. the hope of the creator is to get more programmers to develop better games on Android. keep in mind you will have your Android library to play on this thing and have all those free to play games. I'm looking forward to this thing and its potential. there are ton of similar devices for sub 100 just not geared towards gaming. think of this as what google TV should have been.
 
Well, damn, just missed the Dyad code. But, if for some reason those two don't want it or you can't get a hold of them I'll take it. Though maybe I don't qualify anyway ;).
 
I don't really understand the ouya hype, but to each his own. If I wanted to play android phone games I would just play them on my phone. I can't see it getting games specifically made for it when the phone market is so much bigger. What would I choose as the focus of my game if I was an android dev? not this ouya thing. I also own a lot of older game consoles, and have emulators on other devices.

The device just isn't meant for me I guess.
 
Silver Age Batman? I'm waiting for the epicly Elder Scrolls sized Batman Beyond game where you fly around and get missions from Bruce Wayne...with a side story where you can play through The Dark Knight Returns. Starring Eric Stoltz.
 
Just wanted to say that the last few episodes have been fantastic.

Also, I sort of agree with Cheapy as far as a silver age Batman game. I think it'd be insanely awesome as an old school comics fan, but I feel like the darker and moodier approach to current Batman (both with Rocksteady's games and the Nolan films) gives it a broader appeal. I dunno, I could be wrong, but I can see the silver age milieu turning some people off. Either way I'm definitely interested in seeing what Rocksteady does next.
 
Note: the ad removal for penny arcade doesn't start when the kickstarter ends, it's actually for the 2013-2014 year. So the "desperation" thing wombat brought up might be a moot point.
 
[quote name='youruglyclone']Note: the ad removal for penny arcade doesn't start when the kickstarter ends, it's actually for the 2013-2014 year. So the "desperation" thing wombat brought up might be a moot point.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't say moot, a site of that size should have a sense of 2013 by now.
 
I would like to buy an Ouya in store, considering the key selling point for me is that it is hackable. If it's supposed to be a game console, it can be turned into a rather cheap HTPC, compared to buying a new computer for $400. But you guys are right, most people won't give a damn anyway, considering they'll end up using it to play Angry Birds instead.
 
Can't the Ouya potentially do everything the Apple TV does and more due to it's hackability? If you felt the Apple TV was worth $100, why wouldn't the Ouya which would have better (I'm guessing?) gaming capabilities as well. Seems pretty dismissive over something that sounds like something you have already purchased...

Also, you're not alone with Batman Silver Age excitement Wombat. I'm hoping for some Batmite!
 
[quote name='youruglyclone']Note: the ad removal for penny arcade doesn't start when the kickstarter ends, it's actually for the 2013-2014 year. So the "desperation" thing wombat brought up might be a moot point.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure they don't have any trouble selling ads.
 
I'm sure that if some other gaming website or organization had run a kickstarter with "rewards" like $500 for a retweet those hypocritical shits at Penny Aracde would have got on their high horse and done a painfully unfunny web comic about it.
 
As per Cheapy saying he doesn't have to sell anything - no shit, homie. Almost every single link on your site you get a cut from (pending conversion, I assume).
Wombat, you're probably right about Penny Arcade. If their media plan allows them to drop ads in a month, something fishy is up.
Both Ouya and PA are kind of contrary to the "spirit" of Kickstarter. Neither of these things need our money. Ouya was most likely funded through traditional routes before Kickstarter, and is using this for pre-sales and publicity. PA could just sell memberships like Giant Bomb if ads are such a problem.
 
[quote name='oregonjon']As per Cheapy saying he doesn't have to sell anything - no shit, homie. Almost every single link on your site you get a cut from (pending conversion, I assume)...[/QUOTE]

Agreed. CheapyD saying he would feel greedy by asking for money from us is funny. We basically give you money for every sale that goes through your affiliate links, then there are the ads you have on here, too.

Oh and Wombat, you are easily the worthless ass of the group. You have a "fuck 'em" attitude towards your listeners and your latest "joke" about autism was low and pathetic, even for you.
 
While the Steam sale isn't groundbreaking, I wouldn't say it's fair to immediately say it's lukewarm, especially on Day 1.

And while you guys have played/own a lot of the bundled games, you have to consider there's a large amount of people who DON'T have that much money or haven't been up to date with everything that's coming out. For them the deals are a godsend. i.e. I already own Saints Row 3, but even I can understand that $12.49 is a hell of a good value for that game and many who haven't been affluent enough to snatch it up will love that deal.

Devaluing the sale as lackluster in general because you already own everything you want is the same as people who always complain about Amazon Deals of Day because they either already own everything on sale or they just aren't the demographic for whatever genre is being advertised.

Just my two cents.
 
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Dyad Code Please.

Edit: Just realized I'm late to that party. Anyway great show as always.
 
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I'm not sure why the Penny Arcade guys don't just do a subscription model like so many other sites. I'm guessing they don't want to offer exclusive content to a portion of their audience.

Also, Cheapy's Freudian slip of "Speaking of sex, I just got a breaking email from my mom," was pretty funny.
 
Show Notes

2:45 Wombat saves America billions of dollars and simultaneously tanks Nintendo
7:30 Fitbit update
8:30 Cheapy's Steam problem
10:45 Assassin's Creed movie
12:00 Show Feedback
15:30 Cheapy's Steam problem part II
16:00 New Releases
16:00 NCAA Football 2013
16:15 Frogger Hyper Arcade Edition
20:30 Quantum Conundrum
20:45 Dungeon Fighter Live
21:15 Rhythm Thief and The Emperor's Treasure
21:30 Vita Foosball 2012 is awol
21:45 PSN Frogger Giveaway
22:00 Steam Summer Sale & cagcast wishlists?
24:00 Wizorb
24:45 SCHAR: Blue Shield Alliance
25:30 Binary Domain
26:15 SpecOPS: The Line
30:15 Walking Dead
34:00 Tony Hawk Pro Skater HD
36:45 Shootmania
38:30 Trackmania 2 Canyon
39:30 Tribes
40:15 Kingdoms of Amalur (pc)
42:00 NPD
45:15 Kickstarter stuff (Penny Arcade, OUYA)
61:00 Hypewagon - The next Rocksteady Batman
64:30 Dyad
70:15 Decline of 3D?
70:45 Cagbag - Cag app
73:00 Spec Ops Spoilercast


I'm very bummed that THPS HD doesn't contain all of 1 & 2. Can you elaborate on what is missing? (I assume Spidey isn't included)

I'm embarrased that I laughed aloud at the weeding joke.
 
[quote name='bickle']Show Notes


I'm very bummed that THPS HD doesn't contain all of 1 & 2. Can you elaborate on what is missing? (I assume Spidey isn't included)

I'm embarrased that I laughed aloud at the weeding joke.[/QUOTE]

From my understanding, it's like a "Greatest Hits" compilation of the two games. Meaning, it'll have certain songs (some new ones too, I believe) and stages from both games, but not all of them.
 
First about the Stean sale: If you guys like strategy games I recommend Warlock Master of the Arcane. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/203630/). It's kind of a remake of the old Master of Magic game if you liked that. And if you find games you are kind of interested in getting on the Steam sale it's very convenient to add them to your wish list to quickly see if there are special deals on them. Since the deals vary from day to day I tend to find some games I'm interested in to my list and then check back every now and then to see if they are on a special sale (ie 50-75%).

Regarding the Ouya (pronounced oo ya) I think it's at least interesting enough to jump in on the lowest tier. The platform they are using (Nvidia Tegra 3) is pretty stable by now and I already own two tablets which are based on it. (The Transformer Prime and the new Nexus 7.) Performance wise it's about the same as an iPad 3. (The GPU is a bit weaker though I believe.)

Just for fun I tried plugging in my Transformer Prime to my TV and plugged in a 360 controller to it just to test. And it works quite well. Unfortunately only a few games support controllers and the game I was playing (Shadow Gun) isn't very good.

I'd say it's somewhere between an Xbox 1 and 360 in graphics. But this is with games which are not really high budget. It wouldn't surprise me that if someone say down to actually push the platform they could do some pretty impressive stuff on it.

What I hope we will see on it is some fun indie games. As a developer myself (not for games) I can say that there is a very big gap between developing for mobile platforms and consoles. If you are a small team, or doing it as a hobby, mobile platforms is your only option besides PC. And really, I think the goal of this product is mostly to bring all the fun small games from PC and mobile to a console.

Looking at the type of games which the people on the Kickstarter is clamouring for I'm not sure if the rest of the people there are on the same page as me. But whatever. :)

I also don't think that producing a console in 8 months is quite as impossible as Shipwreck might think. From what I've understood he's in the aero-engineering business, which I believe runs by pretty different rules. I've worked for many years in mobile industry and 1 year per product is pretty slow here. (And that's assuming you have many more than 1 product to work on at the same time.) IIRC the new Nexus 7 tablet from Google/Asus took 4 months to develop. Granted, they have people who have used the Tegra 3 platform before, and they have experience in manufacturing tablets etc.

If they have the right people working there, I think they can actually pull it off. But it's not going to give them a lot of extra slack. And it does depend on how far along they are. (I would assume they have working prototypes by now, because you can make that pretty much using off the shelf components.)

All that said, I didn't go for a "pre-order" on a full machine. But that's mostly because I already pretty much have that same setup at home already. And also because I have too few HDMI inputs. :)
 
[quote name='Hast']Looking at the type of games which the people on the Kickstarter is clamouring for I'm not sure if the rest of the people there are on the same page as me. But whatever. :)[/QUOTE]

I think they are fueling some pretty unrealistic expectations. They set up a survey site (https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/ouyatop20), and the choices seem pretty unlikely. Final Fantasy? Skyrim? Mass Effect? Even if it is to get an idea of game styles, they are presenting it as if it's possible that these games will appear on the console. Not cool & very shady IMO.
 
[quote name='Ed_']Agreed. CheapyD saying he would feel greedy by asking for money from us is funny. We basically give you money for every sale that goes through your affiliate links, then there are the ads you have on here, too. [/QUOTE]

Maybe I'm crazy, but in my mind, there is a pretty major difference between "basically" giving me money and "actually" giving me money.

Do you consider yourself giving money to TV networks when you watch their shows? What about every website that you visit (that you don't ad block), are you basically giving them money?

Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful that you guys do your shopping through the CAG links, but I think there is a big difference between clicking on a link that costs you nothing additional in time or money, and writing out a check to me.
 
If Penny Arcade wanted to raise money they could of done other things than do a kickstarter.

I think they should of just created a membership to their site. To entice people to be a member they could give them access to a ad-free site, a monthly q and a via Twitch TV or a discount from their store.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']Maybe I'm crazy, but in my mind, there is a pretty major difference between "basically" giving me money and "actually" giving me money.

Do you consider yourself giving money to TV networks when you watch their shows? What about every website that you visit (that you don't ad block), are you basically giving them money?

Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful that you guys do your shopping through the CAG links, but I think there is a big difference between clicking on a link that costs you nothing additional in time or money, and writing out a check to me.[/QUOTE]

Time is money; so yes. :booty:
 
[quote name='bickle']I think they are fueling some pretty unrealistic expectations. They set up a survey site (https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/ouyatop20), and the choices seem pretty unlikely. Final Fantasy? Skyrim? Mass Effect? Even if it is to get an idea of game styles, they are presenting it as if it's possible that these games will appear on the console. Not cool & very shady IMO.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I do agree with you on that. The survey was explicitely about what people wanted and not what they could deliver. But it is still a pretty bad move from a PR perspective. Some of the games on the list are quite reasonable, like Limbo and Super meat boy. But I very much doubt it will ever get triple A games from EA etc. And I really don't see why those games are interesting either. There are plenty of platforms for playing Modern warfare already. We don't really need one more.
 
As far as the Steam Sale is concerned, just take a look at each game that goes on sale in the daily deals and such to see what interests you. Then just take a look at the library on the last day to see what else is on sale for cheap that weren't any cheaper earlier. The Recommended tab on Steam may also help you find games that may interest you based on friends' recommendations and similarities to what you've already purchased.

As far as games Cheapy might like, check out these from my library and wishlist:

Audiosurf/Beat Hazard - If you have music on your PC, these are good games that generate levels based on the music, so it's a good way to listed to music in some fun games.
Capsized - 2D underwater Metroid-style game.
Flotilla - Turn-based space strategy shooter game that is randomly generated and puts you in weird/silly situations
Magicka - Top-down magic-based action game that is a bit of a parody of RPGs with an add-on that spoofs the Vietnam add-on for BFBC2.
Pineapple Smash Crew - Top-down squad-based shooter with randomly-generated levels and a colorful look.
Serious Sam Double D - a ridiculous side-scrolling shooter where you can stack guns onto each other to make yourself more powerful.
Tiny and Big: Grandpa's Leftovers - A physic platformer that lets you cut up entire levels that is short to get through.
VVVVVV - Commodore 64-style platformer set in a Metroid-style world with a cool flipping platform mechanic.
Wizorb - The Arkanoid/RPG mash-up that Shipwreck mentioned.

These all support controllers, so there's no excuses for ignoring them. There are probably more out there that you might like, so don't ignore the Steam sale because you think everything is already on consoles or not your kind of game.

I guess Wombat just doesn't like adventure games if he doesn't like the talky parts of The Walking Dead. That's a major part of that genre.
 
About Wombat and his Wii-U party discussion. As a scope of how wide the Wii audience is, my grandfathers' retirement home has a Wii setup so they can swing the wiimote around and play it anytime. Not to mention almost every parent will buy it for their kids after they see it on daytime TV, it is very cheap now.

Now I cannot see any reason my grandfathers' retirement home would upgrade to a Wii-U. The audience is not the same anymore. They are focusing on a tablet controller that no one can agree on a "real" use for yet. Not to mention those old folks don't even know what a tablet is. Sure the DS dual screen had some "Why?'s" but this isn't the same. I don't look down at my keyboard to type, I don't want to look down at my controller to game. And aiming the Wii-U pad up at the TV screen to search around sounds like Steel Diver 3DS horrible gimmick talk. The selling point (to non-gamers) of the Wii was its motion control gimmick or kids friendly system. I don't see the upgrade to Wii-U selling point yet. Other than Nintendo fans wanting the new Nintendo games.

While the Wii-U will still use Wiimotes and motion, they aren't focusing on that right now. Kind of like when the 3DS was first announced, talked about, and shown at E3, all they would talk about is amazing 3D gimmick that ironically parents do not want their kids to have. "It'll ruin their eyes!" Now the 3DS is much cheaper and starting to recover some. I feel the Wii-U will be overpriced (because of new tech, and dev) at start and not sell well because it's barely better than a 7 year old console, with a new peripheral.

About Penny Arcade Kickstarter. I don't get it. I'm sorry but us directly paying/funding your site instead of advertisers/ads is supposed to accomplish what now? How is this even a kickstarter? Do they send you a signed piece of paper you can frame? If you don't like ads, just use noscript and ad block plus programs. Penny Arcade fans really are the new Oprah fans, they'll do anything and everything they are told.

If I sound harsh, too bad. I enjoy the Penny Arcade comic strips fine, but this is beyond begging getting kickstarter involved.
 
Personally, I don't know if Rocksteady would make a Batman game set IN the Silver Age, I just wonder if they are going to make a game based on Silver Age material, as in they make one showing Batman and Joker facing of for the first time, etc.
 
Rule number 1 for any Steam sale: Wait for the Daily Deals (or in this sale's case the Daily/Community/Flash Deals).

The Dailies are the main attraction for Steam sales, since they usually offer the greatest discounts during the sale, and as the name implies, they change each day. In the case of Community and Flash Deals, they change every few hours. If a product has not appeared yet in the DCF deal lineup, then hold off on purchasing it until the last day of the sale; wait and see if it appears in the lineup.

Of course, Amazon has been killin' it with their summer deals, with some pleasant low-price surprises like MP3, Binary Domain, Sniper Elite V2, and Spec Ops.
 
[quote name='detectiveconan16']I would like to buy an Ouya in store, considering the key selling point for me is that it is hackable. If it's supposed to be a game console, it can be turned into a rather cheap HTPC, compared to buying a new computer for $400. But you guys are right, most people won't give a damn anyway, considering they'll end up using it to play Angry Birds instead.[/QUOTE]

htpc is a niche that this thing will fill in my home. also emulator for all my ps1 and older games
 
[quote name='4thHorseman']Can't the Ouya potentially do everything the Apple TV does and more due to it's hackability? If you felt the Apple TV was worth $100, why wouldn't the Ouya which would have better (I'm guessing?) gaming capabilities as well. Seems pretty dismissive over something that sounds like something you have already purchased...

Also, you're not alone with Batman Silver Age excitement Wombat. I'm hoping for some Batmite![/QUOTE]

this thing sounds better then the apple TV. spec wise and openness
 
Thank you for actually explaining what "Silver Age" Batman meant. All other outlets that I go to didn't seem to actually say what it meant (but I was able to gather it by the pictures used). I don't know shit about any "comic book lore," so just assuming that people know what "Silver Age" meant is dumb in my opinion.
 
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