CAGcast #313: Dead Spaced Out

CheapyD

CheapyD

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[preview][IMG-L=5838]15060[/IMG-L]The CAGcast crew talk HipHopGamer & ECA, Ouya, Wikipad, next-gen and used games, and so much more!

Get your questions or topics answered on future shows via CAGbag or Twitter.



[podcast]223[/podcast]
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Show Linkage/Notes:

Intro/Outro: Mundian To Bach Ke (Moonbootica Mix) - Panjabi MC / Different, But the Same - 80s PSA


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Nice, will give this a listen.

Edit: Ha, just watched Mystery Men again yesterday, love the references.
 
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[quote name='robpe36']To add to your guys' conversation about Rayman, it might be worth considering Microsoft's multiplatform policy as a possible reason for it. http://www.edge-online.com/news/microsoft-demands-simultaneous-multiplatform-releases/

I think Ubisoft realized that it wouldn't be profitable as an exclusive, but then realized they had to delay the Wii U version to meet Microsoft's policy.[/QUOTE]

Sony has a similar, less-ambiguous policy for the PS3. If a game isn't released simultaneously, the publisher must add extra content for the game to be accepted by Sony. That's why games like the first two Tales of releases, Star Ocean TLH, Eternal Sonata, Bioshock, and Mass Effect 2 & 1 had some extra content (or in the case of Mass Effect 1, were only available in a bundle).
 
The ability to search across your cable TV listings and Netflix, etc is what Nintendo TVii is supposed to be, is it not? When I tested it back in December (probably the same time Shipwreck last turned on his Wii U) it worked great for my cable channels: showing me, for example, if "The Office" was currently on in addition to other times it would be on. If it was currently on, a tap on the screen changed my TV channel to show it.

I think the Netflix connectivity wasn't working then, but the idea is to have that in there as well. Sounds like you need a Wii U to make your dreams come true Cheapy ;).

Edit: Yeah, that's right. It currently works with Hulu Plus and Amazon Instant Video with Netflix hopefully coming later. From an IGN blurb:

TVii will launch with support for cable and satellite providers in both the U.S. and Canada as well as support for Amazon Instant Video and Hulu Plus. Nintendo notes that “further integration with Netflix subscriptions and TiVo are expected in early 2013 in the United States,” though Netflix can currently be accessed separately from the Netflix app outside of TVii.
Click to expand...
 
Explain how Microsoft has the momentum when they are in 3rd place in overall console sales? PS3 has outsold the 360 worldwide and it came out a year later. 360s are only winning sales in the US now because of the 360 scam of selling consoles to parents who don't know better for $99. For every 10 hours of gaming I play on my PS3, I play 1 or 2 hours on the 360 or Wii U. Apparently even CheapyD is sick of playing xbox since he's playing on the PC more often now. I have 2 PS3s and 2 360s. Overall after playing since launch with these games, I have to say the experience has been way better when playing the PS3. You talk about Microsoft not doing anything because they have a lack of software coming out. Microsoft for some reason doesn't support the console after the new one comes out while Sony continues to support it's consoles for the people who own them and still wants games. I think that's huge so your old consoles don't quickly become paperweights. Anyways, great show. Wombat, stay safe with Nemo.
 
So I was listening to the show this morning on the way to work and I thought of an acceptable way (in my opinion) for Microsoft or Sony to discourage used game sales/reselling games: Give me the option of installing the game to the system's HDD and never need the disc again.

(Currently Microsoft lets you install but you need to have the disc inserted to play which sorta defeats the purpose/real convenience factor.)

In the scenario I've conjured up if I don't install it, the game is just as it would be in this gen; I can resell it and someone can buy it used no problem. It solves the concern of buying blind or sample without being able to resell and wouldn't decimate the used market completely. Then if it turns out I like the game and choose to install it, I lose the option to resell but can play directly off the HDD.

Publishers could (I suppose) tie installation to extras akin to the Online Pass or free DLC to incentivize this. But hey if it's a game I like I'm OK with that.

To continue into wild speculation territory perhaps Sony/Microsoft tie installation to being able to stream the game (via Gaikai or something similar) to another system/device or TV freely if you're signed in. I'd be OK with that too.

Point is, the "Next-Gen Systems to Prevent/Block Used Games" is an eye-catching, bleak and terrible headline that no one wants. But, like Online Passes etc. I am sure it could be done in a way that encourages permanent ownership and discourages reselling with some useful incentives. :)
 
Shipwreck, hearing you talk about the Xbox Bing thing reminded me that I love watching Top Gear on Netflix with the Kinect connected and having it pause when the host says "impossible" or stop playback when they say "Stop."

Also, a very serious question about the WiiU- does it collect dust better or worse than the original Wii?
 
Cheapy. . . The developer makes the same amount of money on a game regardless if the retailer discounts it or not. So if Dishonored is sold at amazon for $25, the discount comes out of amazon's pocket not the developer.
 
when you seach on xbox bing it does tell you if it is available on every video app and you can type in your search if you don't want to use voice
 
I can confirm as someone who wasn't fond of it in the end, that I blazed through Grand Theft Auto 4 in under 20 hours using taxis constantly when I wasn't forced to drive myself. Seeing that the taxi only cost a few bucks to the thousands you would be making normally, it was a tiny price to pay for instant delivery to mission start zones/save points.
 
I imagine the changing of ad agency has a lot more to do with the "Kevin Butler" actor in a Wii commercial lawsuit, than any performance issue. Kinda hard to work amicably after that even if they did settle the lawsuit in January.

Sleazier things have happened, I am sure there is a method to "we're totally not colluding" to agree to freeze out used games for both the Xbox and PSNext, cell phone carriers always seem to find a way whenever one figures out a new way to screw the customer.
 
[quote name='kaw']Wombat:

CheapyD: "Don't you have real kids?"

Me: *Coffee spit take*[/QUOTE]

This. Everyone was killing it this episode. Really great show.

As far as the next gen/used game thing....there's too much smoke for it not to be true somehow. Maybe it won't come down exactly as we suspect. But there has been enough info from different sources for a long enough time that it seems valid.

Ditto for the "always on" thing- although again maybe not like how we fear. Online might be "required" but the system may have a token that is good for X number of days if the system is taken offline.

Just theories. Very excited for the next few months to see how it all plays out. Seems like Cheapy, Ship and Wombat are as well based on the energy in this 'cast.
 
i don't think it's that farfetched to think that Microsoft and Sony won't try to go with the rumors. Didn't Sony already do something similar with DCU where you couldn't sell it back because once you installed it or whatever, it was locked to that system?

And let's face it, Microsoft hasn't done anything to prove they give a damn about anyone who doesn't pay for Live. Forcing people to pay for Live isn't going to deter those who would pay for it anyways, so why shouldn't they go that route? People love paying for that glorified online pass.
 
Id love to have a cheap ass movies website; if digital sd copies wore like 4.99 id probably have a huge collections by now just like I do on steam
 
[quote name='davidb69']360s are only winning sales in the US now because of the 360 scam of selling consoles to parents who don't know better for $99.[/QUOTE]

That you need to manufacture a reason to discredit an accomplishment just shows that nothing will appease you in the explanation you are requesting. It's like Ship said, your impression of which company has the most momentum is defined by whatever console you prefer.
 
Show Notes

01:45 HipHopGamer / ECA
07:15 Show feedback:
07:15 - Nintendo announcement
12:30 - GTA4
14:45 Watch this: The Raid Redemption. Dredd
16:45 New Releases
16:45 Fire Emblem Awakening
18:00 Dead Space 3
19:45 Sly Cooper
21:45 Fist of the Northstar: Ken's Rage
24:30 Child's Play update, prizes next week
25:30 Star Wars Pinball
26:45 DICE
28:30 Ouya in June. Ouya vs Wikipad
34:45 Spyhunter
37:30 New Xbox rumors
46:45 Sony changes ad agency / Vita sales projections
51:15 Mailbox - gmail app for iphone
52:15 Cagbag: Momentum into the next generation
54:30 What old games do you still play? Skyrim
58:00 IGN bought by Ziff-Davis
59:15 What new features in next-gen
1:01:15 What single game would make you buy a console?
1:05:15 Ni No Kuni
1:05:45 Battle of Middle Earth
1:07:00 Tomb Raider controller
1:08:30 Guns
 
The PS4 currently has more momentum than the Xbox. I was going to point out the reasons in more detail but I'm too lazy. Keep in mind I'm just going off current rumors. Very basically though PS4 = more powerful, NOT anti used games, It's a games machine (not a DVR/cable box substitute or a motion control focused device), and there's an announcement coming February 20th.

And assuming both companies keep with the same features next gen: PS+ is much better than anything MS offers, online play is free, the exclusives are not only much better but much more varied. Just this year we're getting Ni No Kuni, God Of War, The Last Of Us, Puppeteer, Beyond: Two Souls and more. Xbox has...another Gears.

So despite you guys liking MS/Xbox more the momentum at the moment is on Sonys side.
 
Feel similarly about Dead Space 3...I liked the first one, but got stuck on a regenrating enemy, gave up and youtubed the rest. Second one I also liked and managed to finish. But I'm hesitant about the third one, especially that some of the reviews complain about repetitiveness. And I'm generally burned out on walk-around-& shoot-things games...might get it once it's cheap.
 
There's this place called planet Earth where the PS3 has been gaining market share and selling faster than the 360 ever since it was released. That's why it's a million units behind now despite launching a year later in the US and Japan, and 15 months later in Europe.

But momentum for next gen will come from exclusive games and features for the new consoles, not from what's happening with the PS3 and 360 in 2013.
 
Wombat's line that Nintendo should start making games sooner is just ridiculous. Is he picturing game developers sitting around. "Should we start making that game yet?" "No no no, not yet."

But clearly, waiting for games that you're interested in before buying a Wii U is standard. For some, those games are already here, for others, the Wii U will never have games that'll be worth it's purchase.

Either way, I wouldn't talk too much shit. My guess is the ps4 and 720 launch will be low on games as well. And crying about it is childish.
 
[quote name='buttle']Wombat's line that Nintendo should start making games sooner is just ridiculous. Is he picturing game developers sitting around. "Should we start making that game yet?" "No no no, not yet."

But clearly, waiting for games that you're interested in before buying a Wii U is standard. For some, those games are already here, for others, the Wii U will never have games that'll be worth it's purchase.

Either way, I wouldn't talk too much shit. My guess is the ps4 and 720 launch will be low on games as well. And crying about it is childish.[/QUOTE]

Let's face it with some people, Nintendo can't win. Make games faster, be more like Apple, have better graphics, herp a derp.
 
[quote name='bickle']Sure about that? The rumors regarding used games are the same for both consoles. And Sony actually has a patent filed related to disabling used games. http://www.itworld.com/personal-tech/333199/sony-patent-suggests-ps4-may-not-run-used-video-games[/QUOTE]

No not sure at all. They're only rumors and I was just trying to specifically address the "momentum" question. Both/either/neither company could block used games next gen. Personally I don't think either will, at least not completely like the Edge article insinuates.

Regardless I still think the momentum is currently in favor of the PS4 if only because of the rumored specs and the February 20th announcement. Of course that could change in an instant if we find out Sony is blocking used games but MS isn't, or some type of $599 US Dollars fiasco.
 
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Good show but I don't understand why Cheapy would prefer android games over Sony games for the Vita. Has Cheapy ever owned an android device before? The games on android aren't great, they're not even on par with iOS yet. The Vita needs games like Mark of the Ninja, Fez, Limbo, Castle Crashers, Journey, Shank, NBA Jam on fire, Megaman 9 & 10, etc. These PSN/XBLA games would fit perfectly on the vita because they don't gain anything from being playing on a big HDTV, they're cheap, and they would play great in a portable setting. Hopefully going forward Sony makes it a requirement that every exclusive PSN game has to also be made for the vita.


I agree with Wombat that Nintendo needs to start making games sooner and to do that Nintendo needs to start hiring more independent devs to make games for them like Capcom does. Honestly I'd love it if Nintendo just focused on their casual titles themselves and hired independent devs to reboot their main franchises. I'd love to see what other devs could do with some of Nintendo's IPs. A zelda reboot from Bethesda would be awesome and the only thing that would get me to care about the Zelda franchise at this point. Also a full fledged pokemen rpg by level-5 or Super Smash Bros 4 by Capcom would be sweet and way more interesting then anything Nintendo has planned for the Wii U.
 
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I think it's pretty safe to assume Rayman Legends is ready to be released on the Wii U. I have no idea what Ubisoft is thinking...

"I completely understand you but you have to understand one thing. This is not a decision taken by the development team, this comes from really really high up, so please don't pick on the game. If you're pissed, imagine how we feel. Think on the situation, we've been making overtime with this game practically since May preparing E3, and then almost a demo per month (gamescom, Wii U presentation, shops, eShop, etc...) and at the same time trying to actually finish the game. We had a first delay because it was obvious we couldn't finish on time but we gave it all to be there on February. What face do you think we had when the week we had to close the game we're being told it's not going to be released? I couldn't believe it. For practical matters, you'll have to wait for some months for the game to be released and will most likely serve for more content to be added and do it better. For us, this means we've spent 6 months barely seeing our wives, kids, and friends for nothing because, after all, such haste wasn't needed. Believe it, it was a hell to swallow these news. Even then I'm firm in what I said back in the day, Rayman Legends is an excellent game and will still be, and the team that's making it doesn't deserve to have your back turned on them just because some men in ties one day took a wrong choice. This industry is really that shitty."

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/08/ubisoft-clarifies-rayman-legends-delay/

"There are no issues with the game development. All of the information was in the press release, the only reason for the delay is to release on multiple platforms. We usually release all of our platforms simultaneously (aside from PC). We've made special exception sometimes in the past but it's definitely just on a case by case basis and not our standard practice. In this case, Ubisoft recently decided they wanted to release the game on multiple platforms so the decision was made to launch them all at the same time rather than separately. I know it's not an elaborate, 'convincing' answer, but it's the simple truth."

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...legends_delay_isnt_down_to_development_issues
 
[quote name='io']The ability to search across your cable TV listings and Netflix, etc is what Nintendo TVii is supposed to be, is it not? When I tested it back in December (probably the same time Shipwreck last turned on his Wii U) it worked great for my cable channels: showing me, for example, if "The Office" was currently on in addition to other times it would be on. If it was currently on, a tap on the screen changed my TV channel to show it.

I think the Netflix connectivity wasn't working then, but the idea is to have that in there as well. Sounds like you need a Wii U to make your dreams come true Cheapy ;).

Edit: Yeah, that's right. It currently works with Hulu Plus and Amazon Instant Video with Netflix hopefully coming later. From an IGN blurb:[/QUOTE]
Roku also has a search that allows you to look up a title and it looks for it in Amazon, Netflix, Crackle, Hulu Plus, and HBO Go, it's pretty handy.
 
Thanks for the Goliath joke, Cheapy. I don't think anyone else on the show even got it.

I agree the Xbox 360 had better first party titles in 2012. But that's a rarity. Sony usually has more and often has better. But Sony was really bad in 2012 and doesn't look good for PS3 in 2013 either. So the momentum has to be with 360 right now.

No way I'm buying a new Xbox day 1 though. Not this time. Not after the Red Ring crap. MS bounced us around for years before finally fessing up at how badly they had messed up the design. I just can't in good conscience reward a company for releasing crummy hardware just to get it out first. If MS' makes a lot of money selling unfinished hardware they will get the message that customers don't mind unfinished hardware.

Well, this guy who was jerked around and without his Xbox for multiple months out of each of the first couple years of the 360 is not going to be one to send that message.
 
[quote name='robpe36']To add to your guys' conversation about Rayman, it might be worth considering Microsoft's multiplatform policy as a possible reason for it. http://www.edge-online.com/news/microsoft-demands-simultaneous-multiplatform-releases/

I think Ubisoft realized that it wouldn't be profitable as an exclusive, but then realized they had to delay the Wii U version to meet Microsoft's policy.[/QUOTE]


How about a more likely scenario...they do want to market the game more than once. The same logic that would dictate the game would not be profitable enough to release as an exclusive also says do not spend money marketing the same game twice.
 
Determining which set of console exclusive is better usually boils down to personal taste as Shipwreck. However, if we are looking at it through sales there has been only one new Sony exclusive to really be a break out hit, Uncharted. The rest came out to OK sales with the subsequent sequels selling less and less each time. Sony's exclusives from the previous generation outside of GT and The Show have all top out around 1 million at best.

I pretty sure only Microsoft has posted profits from their gaming division over the last year to year and half consistently. Sony has been hemorrhaging money left and right this generation and Nintendo just came back from a couple of quarters of losses.

Microsoft has been in a position to coast into the next generation. They largely focused on making games for the next generation outside of Halo 4. The rest of their XBLA and retail disc exclusives have been made by third party studios freeing up their first parties to concentrate on the next gen. If you were going to say one company has momentum it would have to be Microsoft.
 
[quote name='BlueRock']I agree the Xbox 360 had better first party titles in 2012. But that's a rarity. Sony usually has more and often has better. But Sony was really bad in 2012 and doesn't look good for PS3 in 2013 either. So the momentum has to be with 360 right now.
[/QUOTE]

I'll give you 2012, while I don't think 360 had more exclusives in 2012, they did have Halo 4 - which is one of the top 3 games as far as recognition/sales/popularity goes. Sony didn't have any heavy hitters, but had a very strong showing on the digital front with games like Journey, Papo & Yo & The Unfinished Swan.

What I don't get is how you think 2013 doesn't look good for PS3. Ni no Kuni just released a couple weeks back, Sly Cooper this past week, God of War Ascension drops next month and The Last of Us comes out in May. Plus, Beyond: Two Souls looks to be 2013 and I know a lot of people are looking forward to the Localized version of Tales of Xillia. IF somehow The Last Guardian isn't cancelled and miraculously sees a release this year, that's just another great title that people have been wanting for ages.

So you're saying that even with all those games coming out in 2013, and as far as we know only Gears for 360 this year, that software-wise Microsoft has more momentum than Sony? You're either totally out of the loop, or just finished smoking something pretty strong.
 
re: Rayman Legends

It makes total sense to release it on all platforms. The WiiU does not have enough consoles sold yet to maximize profit for the game.

It also makes sense to release them all at the same time from a marketing/cost perspective. Let's face it- 99% of the sales for Rayman Legends are going to be people that were going to buy it anyways, so the actual release date does not matter as much.

I'm inclined to agree with Wombat- Nintendo may have had an agreement to get it early, but something fell through at the last minute. Without a moneyhat incentive it just makes more financial sense to release all the plats at the same time.
 
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