CAGcast #344: Outroar!

CheapyD

CheapyD

Head Cheap Ass
Staff member
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The crew discuss the PS4 launch, Black Friday, Zelda: A Link Between Worlds, and much more!
Download (80 minutes) - iTunes -
https://soundcloud.com/cheapyd/cagcast-344-outroar
 

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Show Linkage/Notes:
Intro (Torn Apart, Snoop Lion) - Outro (Simpsons)

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Please submit your show questions via CAGbag or Twitter.

I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.

 
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Thanks for the work producing another CAGcast, Cheapy. I know you play down the amount of editing you do, but it's definitely more effort than the rest of us have to put in to download it.

 
great show, fellas!  fyi, I got the gamestick last week and have 0 ambition to plug it in.

 
Shipwreck came off a tad arrogant on the show, after hearing a couple claims that he's never wrong. Should learn to be more humble like Cheapy. Still, great show!

 
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Wombat, I don't think there's anyone from the three companies more responsive than Shuhei Yoshida. Considering how quiet Sony became discussing PS4 news, Shuhei twitter responses to his followers are how we found out pretty much everything else about the PS4 since E3.

Also, Call of Duty Ghosts shipped $1 billion worth of discs to retailers, but they only sold about half of that to actual consumers. Just a quick clarification there.

 
Great show guys

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The idea of the systems auto deleting hard drive installs and reinstalling them when needed is ingenious if all games still shipped on disc. That could be tough with big games bought digitally.

 
On this show (not in real life):

CheapyD is definitely the bully. Besides dominating the talk on the show, remember how he browbeat Wombat when he considered getting something different than the iPhone?

Wombat is the nerd. He's the grown man who buys Skylanders and Disney Infinity figures.

Every agrees Shipwreck is the jock. He's the only one who plays and watches sports regularly and also coached basketball.

 
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Shipwreck, great poop story. I was blasted by my 1st child, the brown spray hit me in the chest and covered me. We had company over, so I had to quickly change and clean up. After that day, i always left a clean diaper over the kids privates while I disposed of the dirty diapers and wipes.

 
CAG #344

1:30 I don't even know what to call this section. Bathroom issues?
5:30 Anticipation for the new consoles; tv integration
7:30 Show Feedback
7:30 - Killer Instinct freebie
9:00 - Hot Wheels contest
10:15 - Wombat's mic issues
12:15 - Is Cheapy a shill for Microsoft?
17:30 Watch This: Arrow
20:00 New Releases
20:00 - PS4 stuff
22:15 - Zoo Tycoon
23:00 - Duck Tales Remastered, Ratchet & Clank: Into the Nexus
24:00 - Knack
28:30 - Killzone
31:45 Downloading, installing, and HDD space
35:00 Black friday deals. Next gen stuff is awol
38:45 Playstation app
41:15 PS4 reviews
47:00 PS4 hdmi port issues surfacing; power supply
50:30 Zelda Link Between Worlds
54:15 Cagbag
54:15 - Game installing
53:60 - Major Nelson; community managers
58:30 - Things learned this generation: consoles as media devices, high launch prices
1:02:00 - Battlefield 4
1:04:00 - Resolution stuff
1:05:45 - Cag 3.0 update
1:06:15 - Nerd, Bully or Jock
1:09:15 - Indoctrinating kids to games
1:10:30 - Lack of demo units in stores
1:13:30 - Favorite franchise in this generation
 
I found it interesting that Cheapy sees a lot of people using Apps on Xbox 360. I see the occasional Twitch, or Netflix, but not much else on my 70-80 friends list. That being said I do use my PS3 a lot more as a non-gaming device because I like how the apps are designed for the system. Ever since Kinect, the apps kind of suffered with BIG ICONS covering the screen to me.

 
Cheapy only has one pair of jeans?  Hopefully now the ads are back he can afford to buy a couple of extra pairs.

I feel for Shipreck having so many people pestering him to play Knack.  That will probably be on PS+ by the time I get a PS4 and I doubt I'll even download it for free.

 
About the whole Ghost polygon review thing you guys where talking about. I think i read yesterday that the PS4 patch just added 1080p resolution to it. So was Polygon actually reviewing Ghosts on PS4 running at 720p?

Just curious if anyone knows, mostly because the review stated something about you couldn't see the difference in resolutions. Which just makes it fun, because they where supposedly both at 720p.

 
Polygon reported they reviewed review code on a machine at an Activision event. Activision has reported that the code running at that event was 1080p for 1P and MP modes. So unless Polygon supplemented their opinion with some viewing of the retail version their review should reflect the post-patched version even though it came out before the patch.

Make sense?

 
4thHorseman said:
Wombat, I don't think there's anyone from the three companies more responsive than Shuhei Yoshida. Considering how quiet Sony became discussing PS4 news, Shuhei twitter responses to his followers are how we found out pretty much everything else about the PS4 since E3.
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didn't respond to me when I asked to be invited to a Playstation event held in Tokyo on my birthday :whistle2:|
 
BlueRock said:
Polygon reported they reviewed review code on a machine at an Activision event. Activision has reported that the code running at that event was 1080p for 1P and MP modes. So unless Polygon supplemented their opinion with some viewing of the retail version their review should reflect the post-patched version even though it came out before the patch.

Make sense?
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Ah ok, i actually forgot this happened at an event. So yeah makes sense.

 
Ryse has the combat of the Batman: Arkham series set within the most revered civilizations the world has ever seen, what's not to like?
 
If anything is good enough now then it is the ability of yesterday's consoles to stream video.   Streaming video was a big selling point last gen, but this gen it won't be a selling point ....not when your old console does it perfectly fine.   Not when a $50 Roku can do it while taking up next to no space.  Not when TVs stream video.  And BluRay players.  And iPads and iPhones.  And the ATV.

That's why Sony may be backing away from highlighting that stuff.  

The people that think iPhone and iPad games are good enough are the people who don't buy consoles and dedicated handhelds or who were the most casual customers of those devices.  

AT the same time those folks can be brought back into the fold if there is another WiiSports or Guitar Hero-level console-only mainstream craze.  

 
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It is a long haul. I don't think there is much need for these consoles to sprint out of the gate. Is there anything worthwhile (besides ports of 360/PS3 games) scheduled to be released during the next 6 months? Will there be much supply this Xmas?

 
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In the past week I have watched almost half of the first season of Arrow, thanks for the recommendation. I couldn't make it through the first episode of Agents of Shield.

 
I don't get why Cheapy spends so much time on the streaming aspects. Everything can stream. Yes, consoles can stream too. It seems like it would be hard to convince someone to buy a console just to stream stuff when they can stream on their tablet, phone, Roku/AppleTV, Smart TV and last-gen consoles already. Oh, and their computer. And maybe their cable box (TiVo).

Will they stream on a console? Maybe. But will they buy one to stream? Probably not. So I think that's why Sony isn't talking about the video streaming aspects. Microsoft has more reason to since they have a differentiating feature with the HDMI in port and cable box control. You can't get that on your 7 other devices.

 
Thanks for reading my question on the show! 

Last week, I got to try out the Xbox One at a Microsoft Store (controller felt too light; the demo was for Killer Instinct, which looked current gen) and the PS4 at GameStop (solid controller, the new FIFA looked nice).

Surprisingly, the Xbox One kiosk at GameStop was not playable. The console was in a display case hooked up to a TV that played a looping video. 

 
Since Shipwreck says he's always right, will Shipwreck take a run for Pachter's money?

Just kidding...

As Engineer myself I don't see a problem with having a power supply inside the machine, TVs have them inside and they work just fine even with those bright screens generating extra heat and Smart TVs have processors as well... The Steam Machines may have the power supply inside as well...

Have you seen the Xbone vs PS4 size comparison? Thoughts?

2q0klsx.jpg


 
KaCeX said:
Since Shipwreck says he's always right, will Shipwreck take a run for Pachter's money?

Just kidding...

As Engineer myself I don't see a problem with having a power supply inside the machine, TVs have them inside and they work just fine even with those bright screens generating extra heat and Smart TVs have processors as well... The Steam Machines may have the power supply inside as well...

Have you seen the Xbone vs PS4 size comparison? Thoughts?

2q0klsx.jpg
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I think they will both fit fine under my TV.

 
Yeah, I don't see Shipwreck's qualms about the power supply in the PS4. I'm sure Sony did the math. How many helicopters with external power supplies has Shipwreck designed? And where's the power supply on his PCPCPC?

The only qualm I would have is it makes the power supply tougher to replace if it breaks. But that's probably more than made up for by the cost savings of having only one unit and one fan and the fact that you will replace power supplies on less than 100% of units. If you save $1 putting the power supply internal but it adds $25 to the cost of fixing it when the power supply breaks, you still come out ahead as long as less than 4% of units need new power supplies under warranty.

 
BlueRock said:
Yeah, I don't see Shipwreck's qualms about the power supply in the PS4. I'm sure Sony did the math. How many helicopters with external power supplies has Shipwreck designed? And where's the power supply on his PCPCPC?

The only qualm I would have is it makes the power supply tougher to replace if it breaks. But that's probably more than made up for by the cost savings of having only one unit and one fan and the fact that you will replace power supplies on less than 100% of units. If you save $1 putting the power supply internal but it adds $25 to the cost of fixing it when the power supply breaks, you still come out ahead as long as less than 4% of units need new power supplies under warranty.
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Exactly. And which console last gen had major reliability issues - the one with the internal power supply or the one with the external supply?

 
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trip1eX said:
Exactly. And which console last gen had major reliability issues - the one with the internal power supply or the one with the external supply?
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I would still rather have an external power supply. I just recently had an issue where it seemed like my Wii was dead but by totally unplugging the external power supply for a couple of minutes I was able to fix it.

The PS4 definitely looks cooler and more of an engineering marvel, but the space I have under my TV is way bigger than the Xbone so its size is a non-issue to me.

 
hey guys great show. I don't understand how people can be so close minded when a person states an opinion that is contrary to their own. Yes it can be said that each of you guys can favor a system over another(i.e. cheapy with pc) but i don't have any issue with these favoritisms because you guys reach em after stating all the facts that are currently present in a said subject. Its all right to form an opinion on your perception of facts as long as all the facts are clearly and unbiasedly presented such as how you guys continually do. so f the fanboys
Also when it comes to any hardware launches it is always(as i have seen with iPhones,consoles,ext)to be expected that some will experience some sort of hardware issue. the over zealous fan is always the one to suffer from these unforeseeable malfunctions cause they are too anxious to wait until the wrinkles are ironed out. I do think that there is only so much a company can prepare for in a controlled environment and that the real world will always throw a curve ball. Thats why I'm gonna wait a while until i ultimately get both. Stay safe and keep gaming
 
Now shipwreck is full of hot air.

Okay, that was a cheap shot, I admit it. But let me explain this to you as an engineer.

The 111F air coming out of the back of your PS4 is because the idea of modern cooling system design is to design your system so that the air coming out of the system is as hot as possible.

What, what? Did he really say that? Yep.

See, when you are talking about heating up and cooling, the key really is the total amount of heat generated and moved out of the box. The heat generated isn't controllable by the cooling system (not by much), it's just the amount of energy taken from the wall turned directly into heat. The key is how you get it out.

One way is to exhaust a fixed amount of air and the air temperature changes depending on how much heat there is to take out. You have to pick an amount of air (fan speed) which is enough air for even the most demanding (hottest) situations. The problem with this is the fan is going full blast all the time and for a system which dissipates 150W, full blast is going to be noticeably loud. This is why this is the "old way"of doing it.

The new way is to pick a temperature of air to exhaust and then exhaust a differing amount of air depending on how much heat you have to take out. The good part of this is that the fan is running at less than full bore when full cooling isn't needed. This is quieter and it actually takes less energy (which is just more heat you have to exhaust). So how do you pick a temperature? Well in a system of convective cooling the rate of cooling is based upon the difference between the temperate of the thing you are cooling and ambient. And for a given amount of heat to dissipate the amount of air needed goes down the higher you make the exhaust air.

So you pick a temperature the internal components are rated at and a temperature of air that is as high as possible but considered acceptable. And then you adjust the system to adjust up the airflow if the exhaust air is too hot or the internal components are too hot.

So Sony picked 45C for the exhaust air, which is 113F. That's why shipwreck measures 111F at the back of his unit.

But in the end, the exhaust temperature being higher doesn't indicate a problem putting this in an enclosed space, because you aren't measuring the volume of air too. It's really the input electricity that indicates how much this will heat up in an enclosed space. And well, it uses 150W, it's going to be about as intolerant of being in an enclosed space as the original Xbox 360 and PS3s were. My customized Ikea cabinet with active cooling which did a lot of work cooling my PS3 and original 360 but hasn't had much work to do lately will be working harder again with the PS4 on in there.

 
BlueRock, I don't disagree with anything you say there. I don't think there is a heat issue at this point, it just makes more sense to me to eliminate the possibility by making that power supply external. I see the size and feel the heat. That's all.
 
Curufinwe said:
I would still rather have an external power supply. I just recently had an issue where it seemed like my Wii was dead but by totally unplugging the external power supply for a couple of minutes I was able to fix it.
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except that has nothing to with internal or external ps.
 
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shipwreck said:
BlueRock, I don't disagree with anything you say there. I don't think there is a heat issue at this point, it just makes more sense to me to eliminate the possibility by making that power supply external. I see the size and feel the heat. That's all.
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The heat you feel is from gpu. And it is not necessarily bad to feel heat. I would say, in this case. it is good. It means the heat is leaving the console. The amt of heat is just a reflection of how powerful and power hungry these next-gen gpus are.

And remember the 360 pumps out lots of heat for its generation despite an external ps.
 
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I think Mass Effect is a solid choice for best franchise introduced in this gen. In fact, I think it's the only series of its caliber that I've played all games of (only talking about this gen). I definitely enjoy that series. Yeah, the ending was BS, but I don't hold it against the entirety of the series. I still have yet to play the extended cut or whatever it's called.

Another choice I'd consider is Assassin's Creed... however, I never played 1. (Saw all of it in a let's play, though... well, they weren't called "let's plays" back when I watched it.) I also haven't played III yet or IV. And I only just finished Revelations a couple of days ago. So I've only played half of the available games (and not even counting the Vita title), but I still would consider it a choice. Lots of people hate on AC, but I've enjoyed almost every aspect of it when I play it. Yes, the story is a contrived mess, but really only the "real-world" Desmond parts. The historical parts of it are pretty solid, IMO. (Again, I can't speak for III or IV yet.) I can appreciate for what it is and not care too much. I guess it gets too repetitive for most people, but it doesn't bother me.

Anyways, that was somewhat off topic. I guess I'll pile on the power supply gangbang here and say I disagree with Shipwreck; I do not like external power supplies like the 360 has. They take up too much space for my liking.

 
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ME isn't my choice for best game/IP this gen, simply because I didn't like the contorted way people who live and die at the end of 2 worked. And they had the gall to try to sell me on the idea that I would be thrilled to continue playing in 3 with my save even though the characters I wanted to play with were dead. Oh, yeah, and the "sell you the ending" aspect where you couldn't see the good (synthesis) ending in 3 if hadn't bought any previous games in the series and didn't have a project ten dollar code.

But I do agree it was a significant series and I can see why a lot of people would pick it.

So I guess I'd say Uncharted. But that's kind of a default. I really should think about it more.

It might be Rockband.

 
BlueRock said:
I don't get why Cheapy spends so much time on the streaming aspects. Everything can stream. Yes, consoles can stream too. It seems like it would be hard to convince someone to buy a console just to stream stuff when they can stream on their tablet, phone, Roku/AppleTV, Smart TV and last-gen consoles already. Oh, and their computer. And maybe their cable box (TiVo).

Will they stream on a console? Maybe. But will they buy one to stream? Probably not. So I think that's why Sony isn't talking about the video streaming aspects. Microsoft has more reason to since they have a differentiating feature with the HDMI in port and cable box control. You can't get that on your 7 other devices.
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Show a non-gamer this video and let me know what they think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhe6jV-APwM

 
I know you will mention the amount of PS4 failures in the next Cagcast. Please do everyone a favor and be extra happy sounding for all the people that call you Microsoft shills.

On a serious note, the PS4 launch seems terrible with the amount of hardware failures and bad customer support (Based on the Sony Forums). Do you think this could knock some wind out of their sails if there are as many bad consoles as there seem to be?

 
I don't get it. What are non-gamers supposed to be amazed with? First of all, 3/4ths of the video is gaming, which I'm sure you realize non-gamers aren't going to be impressed with.

Should they be amazed that they can Skype on a TV? You can Skype on a Samsung Smart TV already.

What that leaves is the HDMI in feature (with guide), that I already mentioned. Yeah, it's a differentiating feature for MS. So yeah, they talk about it, as they should. Will it really have a big impact on anyone? I don't know yet, it's not even out yet. It could be a big deal. MS sure thinks so, adding that HDMI in port cannot have helped their $500 cost. So they think it will be big. We'll all know for sure in a while.

It again goes back to what I said. All the non-gamers I know already have plenty of devices to watch TV on and to stream TV on. They're not going to blow $500 just to watch TV or stream TV on an Xbox One. You show that video to some non-gamers and tell them all this can be theirs for $500 and see what answer you get back.

The first use of those features will be by gamers who paid the $500 mostly to game. We'll see how much they like it and if they evangelize the viewing features to others well enough to make non-gamers matter from a sales perspective.

 
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